Hi - I usually go with less than a cup of sugar for apple pies - it depends on how sweet the fruit is - but normally 2/3 - 3/4 cup is plenty, but then I don't care for very sweet things & I like tart apples. You can count approx. 1 scant Tablespoon per apple (1 cup = 16 Tbs.)

& as for crust - the easiest & richest crust is Pate Brisee - a butter crust that can take a LOT of handling & re-rolling & will keep refrigerated for almost a week. I like to add a pinch of nutmeg to enhance the buttery flavour. you can use all butter or some shortening or even vegetable/olive oil to replace the shortening...

Here is a link that might be useful: Pate Brisee

Thank you for your advice. I will try the Pate Brisee next time.

Here are some pie crust tips....

-The texture and flavor depends on the type of fat you use. Personally, I haven't used shortening for decades and avoid it entirely, but when it's used in pastry it has a high melting point, is easy to mix, and you are less likely to over-mixing the pastry (over-mixing results in too much gluten being developed and a tough crust), and shortening usually results in a flaky crust, but it lacks flavor. I prefer coconut oil for pastry, use about 25% less, or coconut oil and butter, and follow the same mixing "rules".

-Butter (and occasionally people blend butter and shortening or butter and lard for the best of both worlds), when handled correctly it will result in a supremely flaky crust, more so than shortening, lard or oil pastry. It also has great flavor.

-Lard is similar to shortening and the reason it's excellent for pastry is due to the large fat crystal, which doesn't break down under heat as quickly as butter. "Good" fresh lard is hard to find - make your own, it's simple to do - and avoid the hydrogenated "crap" found on the grocery store shelves. Lard is also an acquired taste - the flavor is uniquely it's own. Those of us "of-an-age" have fond memories of pastry made with lard (and don't forget fried chicken in lard), but not everyone likes the flavor. Check out small meat processing plants and see if they render fresh lard, especially leaf lard.

Oil- This is probably the easiest pastry to make and the easiest to handle, BUT, it doesn't have the classic qualities of a well-made pastry. It is so tender you will need to roll it out between two sheets of waxed paper or plastic wrap.

As a decades long foods judge at County and State Fairs, don't use an oil pastry to be judged at a fair. If it's the kind you and yours love, that's great, and it's neither right or wrong to make an oil pastry, it's just not the one I would submit for judging because it doesn't have the same characteristics as one made with a solid fat.

-The next choice is going to be the type of flour. Pastry is tricky because it requires enough gluten in the flour to give it enough strength to hold together, and each step of making pastry is geared towards minimizing the gluten development. The most common flour used is all-purpose, but I'd suggest using flour even lower in gluten than that, such as bleached southern all-purpose flours like White Lily, Martha White, Gladiola, Red Band. These flours are best used for pie crusts, biscuits, quick breads and muffins. If you use 100% whole wheat flour, I'd suggest pastry flour milled from soft white whole wheat.

-You strive for two characteristics in a baked pastry - flakiness and tenderness. The best method for achieving this is to add the fat in two portions. The first half is added to the flour so it is very finely mixed into the flour. Where the fat coats the flour, the liquid can't penetrate the flour so the gluten develops in short strands, hence the term "short crust pastry". This addition of fat will tenderize the crust because the fat interrupts the formation of gluten.

The second portion of the fat cut into the mixture is left much larger (about the size of small peas). This second addition of fat will build flakiness. Each place there is a large bit of fat, the heat from the oven will melt it and create a pocket of steam. The steam lifts a layer of the pastry to create flakiness.

If you choose to make an oil crust, oil acts like a warm fat, which coats each particle of the flour so well very little gluten develops and the pastry will tend to be mealy rather than flaky and tender. Don't confuse the way the baked pastry breaks and crumbles when you cut into it as flakiness. One improvement is to use extremely cold oil, but you can't get flakiness because there aren't any little blobs of fat to create steam that makes a flakey crust. Without the little blobs of fat, there is less evaporation making a tighter, firmer crust, which is neither flaky or tender.

-Some pastry recipes call for vinegar. Vinegar is an acid and brings one more tenderizer into play. The acid softens gluten and breaks apart the gluten strands.

-If you are making a pastry that will hold a hefty meat filling, choose a recipe that contains an egg. The protein provided by the egg will reinforce the structure of the pastry.

-It's usually water that holds the mixture together. Use cold (not ice cold) water and add as little water as possible! The higher the protein count (gluten) of the flour, the more liquid it will require, and you may find that a difference in the brands of all-purpose flour available. If using Southern All-Purpose flours or pastry flour, it has less protein so it will generally require less hydration. Gluten is like a little sponge, and the more gluten the more hydration it will soak up. I would avoid King Arthur Unbleached All-Purpose Flour for pastry if at all possible because it's much higher in protein than National Brands (Gold Medal and Pillsbury). If that's all you have to use, add a little more fat, or add a little vinegar with the liquid to help shorten the gluten formation. Recipes using vodka are also popular.

-Mix only until the lumps of dough begin to adhere together and STOP! You will then form the dough into a flat disk, wrapping it in plastic wrap and refrigerating it. While it is resting in the refrigerator, the flour will continue to soak up the available moisture, and more importantly, the gluten will have a chance to rest. If your dough is sticky and difficult to roll out, this means you have over-developed the gluten. You should only need a small amount of bench flour to successfully roll the pastry out.

-Martha Stewart has a great recipe made in a food processor, and the trick to using a food processor is to freeze the fat before adding it.

-Enemies....

1. Warm ingredients, warm surface for rolling it out, and warm hands. If you have warm hands you may want to dip them in cold water (and dry off) before handling the pastry dough.

2. Over-mixing, which develops too much gluten and you will find yourself with a sticky dough and a tough pastry after it's baked.

3. Not enough chilling and resting time.

If you don't chill and rest the pastry before rolling it out, the gluten won't have a chance to relax. When you've placed the pastry in the pan and stretch it even more by manipulating it, you also need to let it rest in the refrigerator to keep the fat well-chilled. If you don't, when the pastry shell is baked it will shrink. Gluten has a great memory and will spring back if you didn't allow it to rest and relax before baking.

Hope this is some information you find helpful.

-Grainlady

Mama, you might want to try making a Crostata crust, instead of 2 pie shells. A crostata is pastry, but not put in a pie plate. It's just rolled and placed on a parchment lined baking sheet, with the edges folded up over the filling. Very rustic.

I use Ina's.

Here is a link that might be useful: Ina's Apple Crostata

Thank you so much grainlady for taking the time and making the effort to give me a wonderfully detailed lesson in making pie crusts! I feel sure it will all be tremendously helpful, and I am greatly appreciative.

Thank you Jasdip for your suggestion which I will surely try. While I haven't a food processor neither had my mother, and her pies were out of this world.

Thanks again for all suggestions.

Pink Mama, you certainly don't need to use a food processor. I've done both, with a food processor and by hand. As long as the butter is mixed in until crumbly, that's all that matters, not the method in which it's used.

I also keep my butter in the freezer, and grate it on the large holes of a box grater. Cold butter and a pastry blender work well.

And if you don't have a pastry blender, just using two table knives cutting across the flour in opposite directions works great.

EDIT However you do it, a quick, light hand makes the best piecrust. That's why a pastry blender or knives makes better crust than a processor--it blends so much in the machine, and you really want your pieces of whatever fat you're using to be about the size of peas when you're ready for the water.

This post was edited by writersblock on Tue, Dec 2, 14 at 12:12