I personally love going to petsmart because it lets my hyper active Jack Russell terrier get out a little. she loves to meet new people and dogs. She's only gone to petsmart three times in her life because we only go when we visit my grandmother. There isn't a petsmart around here. I've thought about that to about not knowing the vaccinations a dog has or has not had, but then I think more than likely if the person loves their dog enough to take it to a store and let it choose it's toys they probably love it enough to take it to the vet. And just like kids, dogs will occasioanlly get sick, but for 99 percent of their lives they will be healthy and happy. It's like saying I am not taking my kid to McDonald's because they may be around sick kids, but everywhere we go there are kids and they carry icky diseases. So anyway, we take our kids to public places and risk them getting sick just so they can enjoy themselves. i don't see any difference with dogs.

Oh, and about the people names as pets. It is a proven fact that people see more personality in an animal when they have human names and the pet is more likely to be adopted.

It's not about PetSmart, per say, but whether we are using pets as child substitutes and what this says about our culture?

Does it bother you if people can't or don't want childen care and treat their pets as if they are their children?

There are alot of people out there with or without kids that treat their pets very well. I have lots of people tell me they want to come back as one of my pets.

It's not a substitute, it is a genuine love of animals and I don't think it says anything about our culture except that we are for the most part evolved, compassionate, loving, intelligent and many more adjectives that aren't on the tip of my tongue at the moment.

People aren't treating their pets better than their kids so I don't get what the debate is?

Are you asking if we are treating our pets too well?

Recently I've also heard of dogs being given first, middle, and last names.

You sure that wasn't a purebred dog? Most of them have some pretty high-falutin' names. It's intentional, and usually indicates both the kennel, and the bloodline that the dog is descended from. And when you have several dogs to name over the years...well, you have to get pretty original.

Possibly. There does seem to be a movement to accord animals the same rights as human beings which might be a another good subject to debate.
Do people from less developed countries find our treatment of pets bizarre?

Thanks. No it wasn't a pedigreed name for registration reasons. I do understand why that's done.

Are you opposed to any of those things? People are different. People get obsessive about their community theater. People spend thousands on jewelry. People jump off bridges on bungie cords. Thats why this country is so great. We are allowed to do these things. CanÂt people make fools of themselves over their pets if it amuses them? A pretty harmless pastime. As my dad used to say, it keeps them out of the tavern;~) IMHO, it is never a good idea to let yourself believe people are somehow wrong or odd just because their values are different than yours. There is one exception to that rule. If you canÂt control you screaming child, donÂt bring it to a restaurant where I am eating.

I agree 100 percent about the screaming children in restaurants.
If I recall correctly, folks who treated their pets as children were considered eccentric years ago but today it seems to be mainstreaming itself into society. And the whole point behind the post is: does this reflect a change in our culture? Not that it or any other eccentric behavior should be outlawed or banned.

Kids are treated differently today than they were in the past, too. When I was a child, there were no sports teams, dance classes, karate, and ice hockey for kids. We didn't have backyard swimming pools and tons of devices to entertain us. No one spent money on preschool classes to eventually help us get into the best colleges. These things are all commonplace today.

I think it is a reflection on our society's wealth. It shows that more people have more disposable income than years past. We pamper ourselves and since we love our children and pets, we pamper them too.

The word "Adoption" is fitting in many cases. Most rescues require that you fill out adoption papers and you must be approved before you take the animal home. The rescue I volunteered for even had Pre-adoption papers. Then when you were pre-approved, you moved up to the final adoption. That usually took a week. That did away with anyone getting a pet on impulse just because they instantly "fell in love" at an adoption day at PetSmart.

However, when someone sells/gives a dog to any Tom,Dick or Harry who comes along, I don't consider that an adoption.

All of my animals are either adopted or rescued. Although, I have bought animals in the past.

" but whether we are using pets as child substitutes and what this says about our culture?"

To me it says that we are a loving and caring society when it comes to our pets. It also says that childless people, whether by choice or not, empty nesters those waiting till later in life, have a need to be needed. To me it is a very good thing to have a pet (or a dozen!) to nurture and care for beyond myself and spouse. I have a friend who was widowed last year and I know that there are days that she would not go home if it were not for her dog.

All our cats have had middle names, and just like with a child, it is only used when they are in trouble! And they know it!

Many areas that have disposable income treat pets in a similar manner. I know in Japan many people pamper their pets.

I LOVE having my dog because he makes me feel relaxed (well not all the time, but most of the time!) When I come home he wants to be by me and is happy. He doesn't tell me I am late or get upset. He just wants to be pet and that is relaxing. I guess he makes me forget about work or the things that need to be done. Plus our two boys are just so happy with simple stupid things, like a stick or throwing a ball. That makes me think about how I don't need some expensive clothing or cars to make me happy! I am just happy because they are happy!

Kids are not pets and vise-versa. I do not think that people treat their dogs like babies because they want one. I just think they think it is fun, like playing with a doll or something. Plus dogs require less care than a baby so they can have all the fun, plus less commitment. I am just kinda pulling this out of my head because it doesn't make much sense to me either.

I don't think it has anything to do with replacing children with animals. I know many people who treat their pets almost or as good as their human children. I don't have a problem with that at all. Pets depend on their owner at least as much as a child. It's about time society finally recognized and accepted that responsibility.

The reason Europeans can get away with having their dogs in restaraunts is because in Europe dogs are allowed everywhere. Therefore, dogs are socialized to many situations and can be expected to be perfectly behaved in all situations.

One of my dogs has a first and middle name. She's Tatyana Mashank'a, a Siberian Husky. DH and I couldn't agree on the name- her foster/rescue was calling her Roxy and that just wasn't acceptable to us- so we gave her both names. She usually goes by Tatya, unless she's being bad, in which case she gets called Mashank'a-wanka (as in Aussie for wanker).

We also have a foster Rottie with a first and last name. Her original name was Apple, which is a dumb name for a Rottie IMHO. We thought she'd be very pretty if only she'd gain some weight, so we renamed her Kate Moss. And we were right- she's a beautiful girl now.

BTW, when I was in Germany and Austria, the only children getting removed from restaraunts were screaming AMERICAN children. Apparently Europe doesn't take any crap from their kids either.

People that go all out, or overboard, as some would say, amuse me. It isn't the way I do things, but it seems that most of those that do, are very loving people.

Probably some do use pets as child substitutes, or to fill the "empty nest" sydrome, but many are just big time animal people as well.

My DH died 3years ago after 48 yrs of marriage.We were a perfect match,a set.We had 2 grown daughters and two grown grandsons.I grieved and cried for a solid 6 months.Still grieve.I,ve taken into my home and life 2 rescued dogs,Cricket, a chiwuawua-pug mix that had been locked in a filthy small room most of the time.She loves me and is a very shy little dog. She is my friend. I also have a birddog-blueheeler mix named Dillen, because Matt Dillen of Gunsmoke fame came back from near death so many times,rescued as a tiny tiny puppy,The vet doubted that he would live. but he did and now weighs 50 lbs.He is a lively,very loving to everyone dog.He has for the most part good manners.He is also my friend.I would not have made it without my two friends. They are not my children nor a substitute for,nor for my husband.
I also have some wildlife that i consider my friends tho i have never touched them. One a large woodpecker that eats out of my hummingbird feeder and follows me thru the woods fussing at me.I call him baby,because for a big woodpecker he is.

I ask that you look in "my clippings" and read the "Tribute to Keebler" and maybe someone can understand why dogs are somepeoples friends and children. In an era where people don't seem to care about other people anymore especially older people and most seem to think if you don't think like me than you must be wrong and iam right.
At any rate there are still lovely people out there and i love my 2 legged and my 4 legged friends,feathers,skin or fur.
oakleif

Very touching post & Tribute to Keebler
Thanks Oakleif

Oakleif, very beautifully said. Your Keebler looked to be such a sweetheart. Those kids are so adorable. I am so sorry to hear of the loss of your DH and Keebler. Here's another favorite clip of mine I'd like to share with you.

'T'was the night before Christmas and all through the
house, Not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse.
The stockings were hung by the chimney with care
In hopes that St. Nicholas soon would be there

My dogs were nestled, all snug in "MY" bed
While visions of chew toys danced in their heads
I in my sweat pants and Dad in his sweater
Had just settled down to read the CHC newsletter

When up on the roof there arose such a clatter
I sprang from my chair to see what was the matter
Off to the window I flew in a flash
Tore open the shutter and threw up the sash

The moon on the crest of the new fallen snow
Gave a luster of midday to the objects below
And what to my wondering eyes did appear
But a miniature sleigh and eight tiny reindeers

With a little old driver so lively and quick
I knew in a moment it must be St. Nick
With a sputter of ashes -- a flurry of soot
He slid down the chimney with all of his loot

My dogs stood there so regal and proud
Guarding their home with barks oh so loud
St. Nick showed no fear and called them by name
He knew in his heart they were gentle and tame.

He brought out his list, checking it twice
"Well, my beauties, all year you've been nice
I have in my bag toys and much more
Just tell me what you pups really long for"

My dogs talked to each other -- much to my surprise
And turned to Santa with tears in their eyes
"We have chews and balls and ropes to be tugged
We are pampered and coddled and petted and hugged

But for Christmas, dear Santa, we have but one care
That all dogs be loved as much as we are
We want no dog beaten, whipped or chained
No dog abandoned, abused or maimed

We want all dogs, no matter what size
To see love reflected in their master's eyes."
St. Nick stopped for a moment to gather his wits
"I have nothing to stop humans from being such twits."

All dogs are so beautiful and are such a treasure
Living only to be loved and give humans pleasure
This lesson I will try to teach
Then maybe your wish will be within my reach"

St. Nick leaned over and kissed each beautiful head
"Now you dear doggies, go off to bed
Think good thoughts and dream good dreams
Of running and jumping and playing in streams."

St. Nick turned to me, his face wet with tears
"Be proud of your babies, they are such dears."
In an instant St. Nick disappeared in a poof
And I heard him chuckle as he ran on the roof.

He jumped in his sleigh and to his team gave a whistle
And off he flew like the down on a thistle
And I heard him exclaim as the drove out of sight
"Merry Christmas to All and To All Dogs a Good Life!"

todancewithwolves,
That nite before Christmas would be pretty as a cross stitch. Think I may try it.
I must be essentric, when my children left home to start a life of their own, DH and I got 2 dogs. When we go off for the day we take them along with 2 diaper bags full of toys, water/feed bowls, paper towels, plastic bags, poop scoop, towels, blankie. They sleep in our bed, and we have a sign at the front of our (property) road that reads:
THIS PROPERTY IS MAINTAINED FOR THE LOVE, SECURITY AND SAFETY OF OUR ANIMALS~~~~~~~
IF YOU DON'T LIKE THAT PLEASE GO AWAY.

(and we mean it too.)

Keebler was,nt my dog. This was just a post on another forum,i wanted to keep.
oakleif

Well this is an interesting topic .. Savannarose you have on several occassions attempted to redirect others to the "meaning" of your post. You stated, "And the whole point behind the post is: does this reflect a change in our culture?" Maybe you should have stated that clearly in you original post .. that might be something to remember for later posts.

Anywho. Society has a whole is always evolving .. there is nothing more constant than change. However, if we take a quick peek back on how Child Protection agencies came to be you will notice that they initially came about due to the development of an agency such as the SPCA. I do believe the first SPCA came about due to people seeing how horrible people were treating horses in the UK. Then people began to notice how neglected/ abandoned / orphaned children were left to care for themselves (remember the plague?). Bam .. society stepped in to make their world a better place .. now dont forget that people initially were in an uproar about the treatment of animals NOT CHILDREN .. animal rights came first and then children's rights were adapted.

Society has changed so much that sometimes, due to various reasons .. people can't afford children. We are slaves to our income / debt ratio .. after all with the high cost of living who can ensure that they can be there for their child, to raise him/her properly with all of the love and nurturing a child is entitled to. We sometimes value our positions within our workplace and wait too long to have children. Society dictates so many things in our life even how we treat our pets.

Animals are living breathing beings .. they provide unconditional love and acceptance. They are always there for you no matter what you look like .. what kind of car you drive or how much money you have to spend. They know when you are happy or sad and respond with care and kindness even when you mistreat them (something not all humans do). We as their owners should be allowed, without judgement, to treat them as members of our families. If your teenage daughter came home with tatoos, tons of peircings and a colorful mohawk announcing that she is never going eat meat again ... would you love her any less than when she was your little girl with pigtails and wore the clothing you picked out for her?? I bet society would sure take a second look at her family when she went off to school the next day parading down the street in her tiny plaid skirt with fish net stockings on .. not to mention the belly shirt!!! God forbid!!! Maybe they would be viewed as the eccentric family who lives down the street.

Basically people have ALWAYS treated their pets in the manner you discribe. Ok so maybe they didnt wear designer clothing. The baby bag just replaces the plastic shopping bag full of pet products. Owning a pet actually increases your life span .. and for everything else they do they deserve to be a family member.

Oh and one last thing .. just think, IMHO in our society actually does provide one of the most valuable right, the right to die with dignity ... they at least get the option of being humanly euthanized should they become too ill .. heck the only people that really have that "right" are murderers on death row.

Hmmm, I have always had dogs and for 20 years also had horses. While they were valued companions and cared for much better than if they were wild, they were never 'family'. People are family, animals are animals. I often preferred the company of those animals to some humans---but the difference remained.

I understand why some folks feel their pets are family---and I do not make fun of that. I just do not approve, since animals that are treated like people never make that status, for a dog can only be a dog.

My son/DIL have a dog that is the closest I have ever seen to being human. He understands complex ideas and does things he was never taught. He is rock solid and totally trustworthy---one of only three such dogs I have ever been around in 60 years. But, he is still a dog and is treated like a dog. A privileged dog, yes, but a dog.

Thank you "handymac", appreciate your thoughts.
Interesting that euthanasia has gotten mixed into this post.
I once heard that the British were supporting the R.S.P.C.A. while the Irish famine raged.

Oh, "rthummer" I LOVE that sign! We feel the same way. DH and I are childfree by choice and own a pet friendly cabin rental company. Our life revolves around a family of 2 adults, 5 dogs, 1 cat and a few Koi.

As for the middle name, only one of our dogs has a first, middle and last name and it's a doozie..... Beauregard Jackson Pickett Burnside the third. (Beau) Why such a name? who knows, a dear friend came up with it and it gave us such giggles we couldn't resist.

As far as dogs in restaurants, I would much rather see a dog in a restaurant than kids. For the most part, they are much better behaved!

Only got to reply # 3 before I popped.
It's about marketing.
It's more appealing to say "sweet furry boy" than "rambunctions stinky canid in need of some serious obedience classes"

My DH works with lots of people in his business. He has a saying which he says from time to time (with tongue in cheek) The more I am around people the more I like my dog. Hard Day!!
When my girls were little they adopted a non living, cloth filled cabbage patch doll.
I'd rather "adopt" a squirmy, warm, furry bundle of dog anyday. The word adoption for dogs will be replaced by another word when the word adoption is tired out. It's just a "new idea" for giving a dog a home. Just as long as unwanted and unloved cats and dogs get a warm home, food, and tons of love what does it matter if it is called adoption or not.
We could say I went to the animal rescue today and appropriated a cute dog for myself. Doesn't sound quite right. Nah, adoption is better.

Adoption has another darker side. Shelters can dictate who can and cannot get a dog. By setting rules with no exceptions.

Instance. I worked for a vet in high school. I have raised and trained dogs and horses for over 50 years. My last pair lived for 15 years, a lab/chow mix-----and 20 years, a terrier/Chihuahua mix. I worked with the county 4-H Horse Project for 20 years. We were asked to adopt or foster several horses. My sons were active in the cat and dog 4-H projects. Any of the six or so vets in my immsdiate area know of me and know I take excellent care of pets.

I cannot adopt a dog from Wayside Waifs and other shelters. Why? Because I live in a mobile home park. The local Humane Society also has rules preventing me from adopting---but some acquaintants work there and are aware of my reputation and allowed me the opportunity in spite of the rules.

I wouldn't say that setting rules as to who can and can't adopt as a "darker" side to adoption. Granted, some places are ridiculously strict but all in all, I think it is a good thing.

I've never heard of refusing to adopt to someone in a mobile home park. As long as pets are allowed there I can't see how they could use that as a reason.

Was it a certain dog that they thought would not do well in that environment and wanted him to go to home with a few acres or something? Or is that their policy for all their animals? If so, that's pretty sad. They would be able to save alot more animals if they would relax their policies. For crying out loud, do they think just because you live in a mobile home park, you'll love your animal less? Personally, I've seen some people with beautiful homes and lots of money who stunk as pet owners. Where you live should not be a criteria all, as long as pets are allowed where you live.
((Shaking my head)) It's sad thinking about animals who might be missing out on loving homes because of a stupid rule like that.

That IS an odd discrimation.. not being allowed to adopt just because you live in a mobile home park. I've not seen many high falutin animals that refused to live in a trailer. It's got to be because of smaller yards or such?? Just plain weird.

Thank goodness for this new forum so I can "unload" on innocent strangers! My son-in-law has never owned a dog. Our daughter comes from a home that has always had at least one dog and one cat. We are all huge animal lovers! Our SIL decided he knew all there was to know about Jack Russell Terriers and proceded to adopt TWO female littermates. A huge mistake! The dogs are now two yrs old. Our daughter has since has a baby and long story short, they have found a wonderful home for one dog, but the gentler, sweeter, calmer of the two now needs to find her forever home.
In hopes of being a good MIL, I'm trying to keep my mouth shut and help find a home for this precious little dog. We'd take her in, but we already have 4 dogs and they would not be happy campers if a fifth joined their gang!
Okay, enough venting. Have any of you ever been through anything like this and if so, how did you handle it?
A Huge Animal Lover!!!!

I would love to have a JRT! But, I can't have another dog in the house. We just moved in a new house. If I were living on my own I'd take her. I absolutely love JRT's. We have one who is 2 years old named Pogo. I'll admit my family did no research on the breed. I was the one in the family who wanted her so badly because I had done my research and knew they were very bright dogs etc etc. (I ignored the horrible JRT stories every relative outside my family told me) My mom bought her for pure cuteness. We were lucky though because she hasn't torn up the entire house. 2 years later, and she is the biggest baby and loves to cuddle. She's afraid of everything though. That's my fault because when she was little I tied a balloon to her collar thinking she'd play with it and instead she read like a chicken with her head cut off all around the house until we caught her shivering on the bed. After that day...she got scared of everything.

My cat came from good mews, which is a no-kill non-profit shelter.

They did do interviews with us, and we had to contractually obligate ourselves to never declaw, nor put her out for bad behavior.

They said if it came to that, they'd rather we bring her back.

Anyway, not sure how they'd really KNOW if we ever declawed or not, but so far we have not.

Going on 3 years now, and due to the good care of the vets, etc, in the shelter, she was very used to being clipped, and allows me to clip her nails way better than any other cat I owned.

Still dont know how they'd ever really know, though, if I declawed or not. Like the trailer thing, what if you lived in a house, adopted a pet, then moved to a trailer.

Interesting question though - - have any of you fibbed to adopt a pet? :-)

this is a fun and educational forum. I have learned a lot due to the freedom to express differing views.

I don't think the mobile home had anything to do with handymac's problem but I know the applications around here ask about yard size and fences. They want you to have a fenced yard and understandably so as most breeds you find in shelters
A: Need a lot of excercise and
B: The risk is too great the dog will get lost if no fence and
C: Most pet owners won't do long walks in lieu of free running in the yard.

What I have a problem with is the house inspections that some of the rescue groups do. I think that's way over the top. They actually come out to your house and walk around and if it's suitable then you might win or you might not. Depends on how many applications there are. If it's something like a designer doodle dog then you have better chances at winning the lottery.

"The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated."--Gandhi

That's what it says about our culture.

Pity Indian children in the glass factories aren't accorded such treatment.

There can be quite a differenc in policies from shelters and no-kill rescues. The last dog I got from the pound all I had to do was lay down 10.00 sign an agreement to get his rabie shot and neuter within 30 days. Then I put him in the car. To me, that is too extreme the other direction.
No kill rescues can sometimes be a bit fanatical, but they have their reasons. They usually have lots of time and money wrapped up in them. Most have come from bad or even horrendous situations. They feel their animals only deserve the very best for the rest of their lives. They will be spayed/neutered, up to date on shots, on flea treatment and heartworm prevention. Most will have been living in foster homes being trained and socialized. You will probably have a good idea of the type dog you are getting and it won't be a total crap shoot.

I do know a lot of the breed specific rescues will do a home check to make sure you aren't lieing about anything but I don't think the mixed breed rescues do that so much. The one I volunteered for asked on the application if the person would mind having a homecheck, but we didn't have the manpower or time to actually do them except on the rare occasion. If someone is being honest on the ap I don't see why they would mind anyway. They are not doing the visit to see how well off you are or how clean your house is. They are only concerned if it looks like a good and safe home.

I've delt with 4 rescues in 7 years. Only one came to my home, with an experienced dog handler to check out me and my surroundings and a "test" dog to check out how my dogs would treat another dog. Wow. 3 of the 4 spoke with my vet for references. Apparently, I'm golden...just wish I had more money to afford more "kids".

Our SIL and daughter are still looking for a home for their sweet Jack Russell. I'll keep you posted and please say a prayer that this dear dog will soon find her forever home.
Thanks!

Pity Indian children in the glass factories aren't accorded such treatment.

Savannahrose, are you really asking a question here or are you just trying to start a flame war? I don't want to post a response if this is just some attempt on your part to mock pet owners.

I think what savannarose was saying is that here in America, we go to great lengths to be assured animals go into good families, where as in many other countries even human children aren't afforded much, if any, consideration... as in the reports of Indian children working in glass factories.

I find adoption an appropriate and fitting descriptor, and believe that the colorful descriptions of available animals are intended to draw people in and get these animals homes. I bring my Denali to Petco and let him pick out a treat and I believe he is vaccinated against anything a non-vaccinated animal could expose him to; it is my understanding that vaccinations are pretty uniform.

Anyway Denali also has a canvas tote bag (from LL Bean) with his name embroidered on it (my children do as well) in which I carry all his necessities.

He is my best friend and it was he that my wife and I began honing our parenting skills on before we had children; we refer to him as our first child.

And one more thought. I cannot recall a time, I really can't, which we were out with our children at a restaraunt and *at least* one person did not approach us (waitress included) and complement the behavior and manners of our children. Our relatives continually joke that on a bad day our children are better behaved than their's on a good day. Well we work at it, it isn't easy, but we feel it important to raise proper, polite, and productive citizens; it will serve them and society well. It sickens me to see what parents allow their children to get away with and is largely resultant from taking the easy and lazy way out. Imho.

RE the mobile home thing. Around here shelters are very cautious about giving animals to aprtment dwellers because most apartments do NOT allow renters to have pets. There fore, the pet would be bounced right back into the shelter.

more-to-grow -Have to agree on the children thing. My daughter is always a pleasure when she is out. Compliments as well after flights and such. She has traveled with us and has learned things that some kids will never see or experience in their entire lives. We too worked hard at making her a good person and well mannered. It has paid off. I am sometimes sick to my stomach when I get the chance to go to a nice restaurant and someone brings their untrained child to that type of setting. We started out taking her to places where kids were the norm. Not places where the kids are the exception. IMHO more parents should get sitters if their kids can't behave or just don't go out that particular nite if a sitter is unavailable.

I have lived in this park for over twenty years---and had dogs and a cat all those years. I have a fence and can get excellent vet referrences---no deal. There is a restriction on size for dogs in the park---three of the four I have had here were larger than the limit---and the park managers have always known. I even pay an extra $10 a month!

I tried adopting a dog from a local shelter with a prison dog program---good fot the dog and good for the inmates. All total, I invested $400. For a dog that was so institutionalized and kennel soured, I did not have the time to rehabilitate the animal.

So, back to getting puppies and picking a dog with enough known history to rescue. My present two are the greatest challenges I have had yet---and are coming along quite nicely.

Re. the quote from Gandhi and the plight of children in India, just observing a sad paradox.
The forum I think is to allow different points of view to be aired and encourage participation from all.
Pet owners come in all shapes, colors and opinions. Non-pet owners, too.

Yes we all are different in our shapes, colors and opinions. Looking at all the replies. All your questions have been replied to. I would like an answer to my original question to you - do you own pets? What is driving this. We replied to each and every post by you. What more do you want?? I really don't care with people in other cultures think about what I personally do with my pets.

The only other person who ever questioned my "over the top" treatment of my pets was a "born again" carpenter we hired to do some work on the house. I listed politely to his preaching day in and day out. He informed me that animals are not admitted to heaven, that they have no souls, etc. IMHO his diatribe was BS. Any event, is this a religious thing for you?

Please answer one other direct question:

Savanahrose, do you think our (posters on this thread) treatment of our animals is bizarre, or that we are eccentric (I have gleaned that you do not think we should be barred from our behavior).

Since we were all kind enough to respond to your post, please answer my question directly without any red herrings like the underprivileged children in India or Irish Famine or quotes from Ghandi. While you may see our treatment of our pets as lets just say - not the way you would do it- we aren't illiterate. We read the papers, watch the news, have educations. In other words, stop acting like you are the only one who has studied history.

I adopted my horse from a rescue organization, and in this case "adoption" has a very specific meaning. I signed a contract agreeing to never sell her or transfer ownership. I don't think I'm allowed to breed her, either. If I ever can't keep her, I'm required to return her to the rescue. Some equine adoption agreements even require proof of death when the horse passes away, to prove that they haven't been sold.

It's not just a cutesy marketing word, at least where horses are concerned.

Well said pipersville. Most rescues work the same way. Not just horse rescues.

Savannarose, I went back and read your original post. I'm getting the sense that you are worried about Animal Rights nut cases and words like "adoption" being a slippery slope. Am I close?

beeanne, help me out since I must be a little dense.

I have re-read the OP but I am interested in what you mean about animal rights nut cases and words like adoptions. Could you elaborate on how it is a slippery slope? You mean like PETA?

I have read all of OP posts and I still have no idea what her real point is??? I get that she wants our opinion of what other cultures think of our pet treatment? Why it matters, that I don't know. Whatever, she's free to ask whatever she wants, forum is open to all.

Although she mentions in that post going to the vet, she really never addresses direct questions with answers.

She talks about people bringing their pets into Petsmart then says in response that its not about Petsmart.

Next its about pets being afforded same care as humans and other cultures opinions of this?

Next it is the indian children working in glass factories, then it is someone referenced euthanasia?

I am really having trouble getting the point and I have graduated from college, etc. Can't follow - somebody help me out please since I can't seem to get a straightforward answer from OP as to what she's really getting at.

No I don't think you are dense Labmomma.I'm trying to figure it out myself. I was just taking a wild guess that she might be wanting to start an Animal Rights debate. My only reasoning is her problem with the word "adoption." and people treating their pets like children.
Yes,when I said "nut cases" I meant PETA and their ilk.
I don't believe it is wrong to own pets. I don't want them to eventually be done away with. When people support Animal rights, that's what they are supporting.
As far as a slippery slope, I don't have a problem with the word "adoption". I do have a problem with some terms that ARA's (Animal Rights activists) try to make common, and even legal in some instances. Words like "guardian" and "caregiver." I'm sorry, but I can call myself anything I want, Mommy, guardian, caregiver, but I still OWN my dogs. That's a right that would be taken away if PETA had it's way.
Sorry..... I'm just blabbering here. I just HATE PETA! :-)
I believe in Animal Welfare NOT Animal rights.
LOL, now you'll probably have 2 posters that you are trying to figure out.

Anyone ever notice that the dogs that are treated like people are usually ( 90% of the time) the ones that are hyper or bark too much etc? Even if they are small breed dogs they should not do this. Just this dog trainers opinion that in general people either go too far one way treating the dog like a child or ignoring them and just throwing food at them. Just today on the news a two year old boy was killed by his family pets, two Rotties, because the father "left the back door open and the child went outside" this ticks me off on so many levels!
The dogs of course will be put down but if these same two dogs had been socialized and trained then this would never had happened. I think they should charge the parents with some type of child endangerment. They loaded the "gun" it was just a matter of time until it went off! Any breed of dog can do this to a child, and it's always "our dog never bit anyone before". Yes but does he bark at everyone at will and put his hackles up with no correction or training?? Sorry I got off topic on my soap box.