Painting weathered T&G porch ceiling...need pointers/advice

14 years ago

WARNING: GREENHORN ALERT!!!!!

I'm in the very beginning stages of repainting our front porch's tongue and groove ceiling. It is in somewhat bad shape as there was a couple of leaks in the flat roof covering it and a few boards will need replacing (hopefully I can find a good match!). This will be the largest painting project that I have undertaken and would like to do a good job on it. After the porch...the window trim....

So far I have used a double-edged scraper on the outside third of the ceiling (the roughest condition area) and have cloroxed and then pressure-washed the ceiling. After the washing dried I can see better what I've yet to scrape/sand. Also, a lot of the old caulking will need removing (much of it I've already pulled from between the t&g...some of the caulkin looks like it will be ok. I just pray that my elbows and other parts of my anatomy (I have some joint issues) will hold out to finish the scraping and sanding...overhead work is *so* much fun!

Thus, I've resigned myself to much more scraping and sanding. Any pointers on making the paint removal easier is most welcome.

After wearing paint chips/dust all day Saturday I was reminded of the issue of *LEAD* being as the house was built back around 1950. I'll be picking up one of the "lead test kits" and checking the paint. Regardless, I think I'll grab some type of respirator (any suggestions?).

Here is the "chemical" supplies I have on hand to do the painting:

1) KILZ-2 latex primer

2) DAP "Alex Plus" acrylic latex caulk plus silicone

3) Valspar Duramax "Satin" latex paint

Any comments on any of this. I've read through 42 pages of the PAINT forum here so I know that what I have isn't the line-up of a professional painter but it's what I purchased before doing all the reading. :(

Specific questions...

1) Since the primer will be going on first...will the KILZ-2 work "ok" with the Valspar Duramax?

2) After priming, caulking the gaps in the tongue-and-groove is going to be interesting, to say the least. So as not to do the job and then later regret using it....is the Alex Plus good enough to use here or should I use something else?

I've got some linked pics below of the ceiling for your viewing pleasure.

I'm all ears so if you've got a comment or suggestion...fire away!!!!

Thanks!

Ed

Before any scraping or washing...

After some scraping and pressure-washing...

Close-up of t&g ceiling...

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (9)

paintguy22
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
The Kilz2 is a low quality primer that probably won't kill staining from water damage. The best primer to use outside is a slow drying oil based primer. I am partial to the C2 brand for that. The Alex Plus is a low quality caulk. The thing about caulk is that a good tube is only a few bucks more than a low quality tube, so you may as well buy the good stuff. I would go with the Dynaflex 230. I don't know about the Valspar because I stay away from big boxes, but really the primer is the most important step and the topcoat should be 100 percent acrylic. I would recommend the 3M respirators....been using those all my life and have no complaints.

Are you sure that you want to caulk the grooves? I don't believe that this is normally done for a T&G installation....if installed properly, shouldn't there not be a gap?
Faron79
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Paintguy,
Would you think XIM's high-build primer Peel-Bond would be an option here?!
Since it's an "Upside-down" application, 2 thinner coats may be called for?!

(I'm still toying with bringing in some of this stuff to our store...)

Also PG...do ya prefer the C2 A6000 Int/Ext. Oil, or the A9100 "Ext.-only" Oil??
(FWIW, I'm at a C2 dealer)

D/T,
* Forget the Kilz-2 Latex! It's a fairly weak stain-blocker.
* Consider the C2, or Zinsser's Cover-Stain Oil primer.
* Yes...If you caulk, consider only the Dynaflex 230; or...Sashco's "Big-Stretch" caulks. Polyseamseal has a lot of fans up here too though...

Faron
Related Discussions
Curb appeal help please.
Q
Comments (30)
Shee, I wish I could give you a hug. I can appreciate how overwhelmed you feel (it's how most of my life feels from time to time!). Let me try to put things in a more manageable state, and I'm afraid I'm going to contradict some other posters in doing so. They have good advice, but it's not all what you need right now. I really do think you should go to the LD forum, it's really not a bad place. Your question about symmetry in DH's plan is a perfect one to focus on to start with, though you should obviously present your project as a whole. Just go in looking for tips to help you design it yourself, rather than for someone to design the thing for you. That's exactly what the forums are for! DO link to this thread, so that people there don't have to repeat what people here have already said. I'm sure you will find that the conversation evolves toward resolving other questions, and people will ask you to clarify things. Perhaps what needs to be articulated about LD is that it is not a hand-holding, cheerleading forum, but rather a place for problem-solving and analysis. The funny thing is that HD and LD are almost a bit like female/male equivalents of each other. Quality analysis of design occurs in both places, just in HD it is embedded in a warm, supportive, connecting environment, where in LD that's all they're there for (though they connect in the process). Think of it as getting "just the facts ma'am!" Some steps to focus your thinking: (a) try to formulate a mission statement for your project with your DH that expresses YOUR needs with respect to OUTCOME in the long term. People will tell you to make an overall plan before starting, but you don't have the knowledge yet to do that. So just try to establish a direction. I jumped to "nestle into the site" from what you originally posted, but maybe that isn't quite right. Talk about what effect you want to achieve. It can be kind of vague, like "just look normal" or "less bare", "ground the house" or "balance the house," as long as it sets up a bit of an idea in your head that you agree on. Just to give some perspective, other people might say "wrap the house in a naturalistic woodland" or "vegetable gardens as far as the eye can see" or " a place to organize my collection of irises." Or they'll want a formal Italian or Versailles type of garden. Or "Sleeping Beauty's castle." You may need to look at pictures and read books to name your objective. I find that negative identification helps too - seeing a hundred examples that you reject can help you narrow down what you DO want. This will also help you distinguish relevant advice from useless advice. (b) establish what is most important to you THIS YEAR. I went to foundation planting because it sounded to me like both you and DH are currently thinking pretty close to the house. It also sounds like you're focussed on the front. This means you have to ignore everyone, including me, who talks about stuff you aren't ready to do, like planting trees, which may be smart, but if your heart's not in it and you're not ready, leave it for even a year. Besides, you've already done some of that, so good stuff. I was going to mention that mail-ordered plants are small but my fingers were wearing out. But (if they survived) ou're going to look up one day and realize you already have some respectable-size trees. (c) decide whether you can do it yourself or have to get help. The issue of symmetry points out something quite interesting about landscaping: it can be tricky to achieve even a pretty generic effect when the house is unconventional or atypical in some way. What form of help? Why not start with the forums, as it's a format you enjoy and that leaves you in charge of your project. Hire someone later if you still feel out of your depth. But you won't know till you try. (d) when you are doing it yourself, understand that you are on a learning curve and you will make mistakes. Everything you do will teach you something, whether it works or not. Getting one plant and putting it in the ground is like painting a patch on the wall rather than just walking around with paint chips. That's why there is nothing wrong with letting DH go ahead with the planting he has in mind already, so you have something in the ground to step back and look at, and watch grow. I think that Wellspring's comment about impact will hit home immediately: he'll plant it, step back and go "I need more." Then the process of figuring out WHAT more is needed will be done with a better understanding of how things look in place. ANd if the hostas start to burn in the sun (and southeast, they will), you can dig them up and move them to the north side (just catch them before they actually die). If the roses look boring up close, head back to the nursery and look for something that scratches the itch that they leave you with. Plants will probably die at some point, they always do. I think I've killed one of every plant I have before succeeding with them. Some thoughts to hold onto: (a) there is no "right" answer to how to landscape this house, or any others in terms of either OUTCOME or PROCESS. Landscaping is done for the people in the house, not for the house. Put ten different families in that house, and you'd have ten different landscapes, all of them just fine. (b) the most important thing going on in any house is the relationships inside it. Never sacrifice a relationship to get a plant or rock put in what you think is the right place. (c) unless you pour concrete, there is nothing in landscape design that is irreversible. See (b). I'm not going to answer all your questions right now , partly because I think you need to forget about picking trees for now to do what matters more to you, the front foundation planting. I will just clarify that yes, rhodos are rhododendrons, and a V-groove is just a way of edging a planting bed - ignore that for now as you don't need to think that far ahead. And try doing an image search for "rockery" and I think you'll see right away what I mean. But I will add that the point about deer is EXCELLENT. I keep forgetting about them. If you have them, you might like to be prepared to think about whether or not you want to fence the house off at all. See you on LD! KarinL
...See More
Help with screened porch
Q
Comments (23)
All good advice regarding flush vs step down. Having said that and having had both, I'm ok with the step down as long as it's only one or two steps. This depends on the site conditions but there may be advantages to having your house entry raised if the area has any moisture or flood potential. Without budgetary constraints, I prefer wood although you will have to re-varish, re-oil or re-paint as part of on-going maintenance. I prefer recessed on dimmers, combined with ceiling fans and lamps for ambient lighting. The recessed sets a more peaceful mood IMO similar to soffit lighting indoors. If your doors don't come with screens then you can retrofit disappearing screens. I'd actually prefer those as I don't like to look through screens all the time. Depending on what part of the country you're in, bugs can be a problem even with screened/glass panels as most porches are not super sealed so the additional disappearing screening to the house seems to make sense or simply select another slider or French door option. Azek is a good composite product but I'd prefer brick, stone or textured porcelain flooring. I'm all for recycling plastics but would not want to walk barefoot on plastic for health reasons. Aluminum rails tends to look modern so if your style is not then perhaps you'd be happier with marine varnished wood. Although your contractor would much prefer to work while his/her business is slow, be careful about the concrete temp concerns mentioned above. Follow your instincts as even the best contractors require monitoring and need you around for answers as these projects always involve an unexpected concern or two. Whether you go with a peaked or flat roof, I'd be tempted to add skylights to see the stars at night and to bring to natural light at all times. I'd be reluctant to use a flat roof in most parts of the country as pitched roofs have many advantages. I think the ceiling is just a matter of your aesthetics however. We installed a glass roofed sun-room on one of our favorite homes and I can't tell you how much we enjoyed looking at the sky day or night. If I were designing another porch addition, I probably repeat that project which had 3 distinct sections: a step-down glass slider room with screens for the area off the kitchen, the glass temperature controlled sunroom extending and flush with the family room and an open area off the library so each section had a different feel and use. Enjoy your project.
...See More
Deck material for screened porch
Q
Comments (23)
I'm not trying to waterproof the floor. :). There's no grout in those pedestal systems. The water flows right through to whatever is beneath. I suggested the porcelain as a nice floor for a deck as a non-water proof deck refacing or for above a complete and correct flat roof system, not tiled to the membrane (which I wouldn't even do with schluter), and I recommended the translucent panels as being nice on a second story deck above another to serve to let light through. Rain will blow onto a screen porch. You don't want to trap it. I would definitely have to have solatubes or skylights above to make the translucent panels worth anything. I think some of us are seeing a dry screen porch at the basement level, some are seeing a "wet" screen porch at the basement level (me, first read through--then I wasn't sure), and some of us are seeing a dry screen porch at the upper level (my second guess). And people are recommending flooring either to make the upper level nice or keep the lower level dry. So this whole thread is a mess. I think OP just wants a nice--not waterproof--floor for a second level screen porch which just happens to have a basement beneath.
...See More
Too much pine... planning on painting. Need your advice!
Q
Comments (99)
There is no chance of us redoing the floors. They were done only a short time ago and are of good quality. While I may not have chosen them myself, we do like them and they work with the ceiling and will be great for not scratching from sand brought in on bare feet. Cabins in our area come at a premium. The square footage cost is 5 times that of the square footage cost to build our home again and they often go into bidding wars. So you can understand that we have a very limited budget to make it our own after the purchase. That's why we feel so fortunate that the previous owner looked after things so well and took pride in maintaining their vacation property so that we're at least not having to put money into maintenance issues. Most properties we had looked at had a ton of maintenance issues to contend with first. Since the floors and ceiling work well together, that's why we thought painting the walls for a more lake house look and addressing the kitchen cabinet fronts to "demodernize" them were our best options to start for our three season get away. We will definitely put one good sized area rug in the living area, but with everyone coming up from the dock/beach all day long, a ton of rugs won't work well. If I paint, would SW Alabaster work in the living/dining area with the warm wood ceiling, fireplace and northwest daylight? Or do you have other suggestions for a paint color? And do you like the rugs in my links? jjam you said go light. They're light with a touch of navy, but washed out vintage like. I've attached the links again below. What do you think? Thank you to everyone for trying to make this an extra special place for my family... Possible rug? Another possibility? Rug with soft colors - have one in my home Much lighter than appears in picture
...See More
weed_cutter
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Flat roof over this area? I'll bet there is little to no air circulation between the roof and ceiling. For this reason I'd stick with the latex primers which I believe pass moisture better than the oil products. Trapped moisture may have been the cause of the existing paint blowing off. Probably best to spot prime the stained areas then prime the entire surface, allow a day between coats of primer as additional dry time improves the stain blocking ability.

I wouldn't caulk the seams for the same reason mentioned above.

I think the Duramax topcoat is a good choice.
paintguy22
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I don't really know what numbers are on the cans of primer I buy...didn't even know there was an ext/int variety. What I do is call the store and have em tint what I need and I say 'gimme some slow drying exterior oil primer'. I suppose that would be the exterior only. I've never used Peel Bond but lots of the pros swear by it.
dirt_tracker Alabama Zone 8A
Original Author
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Thank ya'll for the help and info, I really appreciate it. You've clarified some things for me and also opened up some new questions for me...

I really was hoping to stick with waterbased primer and paint...the small projects in the past with oil-based paints just seemed to end up messy with paintbrushes that I never could get clean. I'm sure I'm gonna need the knowledge of working with the oil-based stuff sooner or later anyhow.

It looks like the materials procurement is going to be a chore in itself. I'm gonna have to do some long-distance shopping. Looking in my local yellow pages I come up with one paint dealer...a Pittsburgh Paints dealer. A problem that I run into is that I'm rural and have to drive roughly 65 miles to the nearest Lowe's. I'll probably have to venture up to Montgomery, AL to find a true paint store....that will probably be 130 miles roundtrip. It looks like several SW stores are up there but not many "mom and pop" stores...I'll see what I can find. Do the SW stores normally handle other brands of paint/primer???

PG, your view of caulking and the cost difference between good and mediocre brands makes sense to me...with your's and Faron's recommendations I'll be returning the Alex Plus and looking for something along the lines of Dynaflex 230.

I went to Lowe's last night trying to see what sanding/scraping/etc. supplies they might have that will help me get the old paint off/sanded. I was going to pick up a respirator. They had two different ones in stock (can't remember the brands), one stated it was for sanding and insulation and teh other stated it was for painting and spraying chemicals. Reading the fine print both of them stated they weren't for use with lead. I didn't buy either one. I figure it was the basic "we warned you, don't blame us..." statement and that they probably would work fine...I'll keep a lookout for a 3M brand.

Sanding equipment...I looked at different electric sanders and figured I'd get a *real* good dust bath with one of those...ended up simply getting some sandpaper and sanding block along with a couple of foam sanding blocks. I'll see how that goes...mostly will be used to feather edge the remaining paint. I'll be doing a lot of windows later on...if I do decide to pick up an electric sander would an random orbital or a 1/4 sheet finishing sander be better?

As for the ceiling itself... In some places there are definite large gaps between the T&G pieces. I've already pulled some large strings of caulking from between some of the pieces. I agree that T&G should fit snuggly together. I don't know if the caulking was used when the house was constructed or if it was added later on...it's a silicone-type so I guess it would have to be of more recent year vintage. It appears that most of the caulking was used more toward the outside areas of the ceiling closest to the weather so it probably was used to fill weather-created gaps. ??? I'm curious as to whether it will be worth my while to order some caulking by the case...that big window in the pictures is one of sixteen that size or 2.5X that size. I may wait and see how much I use on the two windows under the porch and then order some accordingly...or hopefully find some locally (at least as local as possible).

weed_cutter, you are right about the roof...flat and no ventilation to speak up between the metal top and the T&G. But, the reason for the bad condition of some of the T&G is pretty much due to several bad leaks that existed before the metal roof was installed. Thanks for the vote on the Duramax...it's supposed to be the one-coat/no-primer stuff but I still want to go down with a primer coating.

In regards to windows...is DAP '33' good glazing material? I'm going to need to re-glaze panes in several of the windows.

Well, I'm adjusting my shopping lists and will plan on a road trip to Montgomery. Thanks for the help!

Ed
paintguy22
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
The Dap 33 is a fine glazing material

A lot of T&G ceilings move around and I'm not really sure it's due to weather as much as it is due to just expanding and contracting the way that wood does. SW doesn't really have other brands, but their brand is fine as long as you go with their top line stuff. Pittsburgh is fine too as long as you get their best. The deal with the primers is this: if you use waterbased, you won't be able to kill stains, but waterbased is breathable which means water vapor will pass through so you won't have as much peeling when moisture tries to get through. If you have solved the moisture issue though, then it is irrelevant. Slow drying oil based primers are going to give you the best base for topcoat though and will stick the best so you want to use them if possible if your goal is a long lasting paint job. But, if you have moisture issues, the oil based primer will not let water vapor through so you will get peeling faster.

If you buy a sander, I would go random orbit over finishing sander for general purpose sanding. I like Bosch and I've tried em all. Bosch gets me down to raw wood quicker than other brands and it doesn't leave swirly marks behind.
dirt_tracker Alabama Zone 8A
Original Author
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Thanks again for the feedback. I'm glad to hear that the Dap is good stuff...seems like that's about all that's offered around here.

Man, I'm still hung between going with the oil and the latex primer. The latex would be much easier for me to work with but the oil based seems more hardy. This is an exposed porch and though the roof leaks have been taken care of it is still exposed to our south Alabama humidity. I think I'll probably go oil based primer, though, I've just gotta figure out what else I need for clean-up, etc.,.

Well, as I mentioned, I looked at the sanders the other night...looks like I'll go ahead and pick one up. I scraped a good bit the first day I started on the ceiling...and did a lead test this morning (cart before the ox) and the results were positive. I've been under the weather the last several days but I think it's some kind of bug (my luck it's the pig flu)...I figured I probably got more lead in me from selling automotive batteries at our business for 35+ years.

Anyhow, I'll look at the random orbital sanders, maybe look hard at the Bosch...and get a respirator.

Ed
dirt_tracker Alabama Zone 8A
Original Author
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Hey PG. Do you use the "dust mask" type of respirators or the "half-face" types????

In case somebody wants to see how the lead test kit sold at Lowe's shows a positive lead reading I've attached a picture of it FWIW.

Ed

Positive lead test result. Note that there are at least two layers of paint here. The top layer doesn't turn pink/red like the bottom(original) paint layer does....the pink/red denotes lead.
booger3914
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I forget about painting it and put up some vinyl beaded soffit.

Painting weathered T&G porch ceiling...need pointers/advice

Comments (9)

paintguy22

Faron79

Related Discussions

weed_cutter

paintguy22

dirt_tracker Alabama Zone 8A
Original Author

paintguy22

dirt_tracker Alabama Zone 8A
Original Author

dirt_tracker Alabama Zone 8A
Original Author

booger3914

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Painting weathered T&G porch ceiling...need pointers/advice

Comments (9)

paintguy22

Faron79

Related Discussions

weed_cutter

paintguy22

dirt_tracker Alabama Zone 8AOriginal Author

paintguy22

dirt_tracker Alabama Zone 8AOriginal Author

dirt_tracker Alabama Zone 8AOriginal Author

booger3914

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

dirt_tracker Alabama Zone 8A
Original Author

dirt_tracker Alabama Zone 8A
Original Author

dirt_tracker Alabama Zone 8A
Original Author