If you will go to www.premierehomesinc.com and click on gallery, then vitual tours then Glenlake 63, then click on
kitchen and look at the far back wall to the right of the
doorway and you will see the pantry. Hope this helps.
Carolyn

They can't make it in 36'X36'? I don't know that I would accept that as a fix. Sounds teeny tiny to me. Has she shown you an elevation to see how it will look? Is there some reason she can't get the cabinets replaced so they're the right size and you don't have to shrink your pantry? Wasn't this her measuring error?

You've probably already seen this photo around, but here it is again. The fridge and freezer are flanked by (left to right) a 12" utility cabinet (least used next to the door), a 24" pantry with 5 rollouts below and a shelf in the upper part, and a 12" pantry pullout tower with wire baskets on the right. You can see the bookshelf turned on the end, and there are 2 cabinets stacked above the pantry and utility and the fridge for occassional storage. The white cabinet you see the side of on the right is our double ovens at the end of that wall run. These were taken with some things obviously still rough, but hope it helps you picture what you are talking about.

Here is a link that might be useful:

I have a family of 4 with two boys approaching 12 and 15. They eat plenty and we cook plenty. We do have overflow in our utility room, but that's really because we had it before and I'm trying to phase it out. The 24" rollouts and the 12" pullout hold as much as our nearly 48" by 48" step-in pantry we had before (except we put the dog and cat food under the prep sink). Very important to have full extension glides -- and our cabinets are framelss, so we don't lose width on the shelving.

You don't want a 36x36 pantry cabinet! You';d have to have rollouts to use half the space. Can you imagine rolling those out and trying not to bump into anything -- and to reach the stuff in the back -- even you even can get those 36" deep.

lascatx, I don't think we're talking the same language. I have a pantry cabinet now that is 36", but the shelves inside are 10'' and 16'' A little bit too small for my needs -- no utility room for overlow, but the shelves do not cause anything to get lost in there.

Thanks all! I guess I need to clarify, it's a corner pantry in that's it's set into the corner at a diagonal...with, supposedly, a lazy susan on the bottom and shelves (adjustable, but not pullout) above. I think she said it has a diagonal door (like many of the corner upper cabinets you see).

The reason I can't picture it is that I thought if you have a corner cabinet in a 24" deep cabinet run it would have to be at least 36" x 36" so you have access from the middle but still fit in with the 24" deep tall cabinets on either side. I think the door would be only 17" wide...which I'm not sure is wide enough to get things in/out w/o a lot of reaching around & groping inside...especially in the upper part.

I'm not sure I'm explaining myself very well.

What my KD is proposing is that we put in a 15" or 18" (depending on what fits) tall pantry/utility cabinet to the right of the oven stack, then the 24" x 24" corner pantry, then a 24" or 30" pantry cabinet. So we'll get more than just the 24" cabinet. If you look at the layout below, they would go where the corner pantry now is. B/c of an almost 9" overall measuring error on that wall, that corner pantry would be quite a bit smaller on the north wall and longer on the east wall...but it would cut too far into the FR doorway (FR is the doorway on the right)

Does this make sense???

I think what I'm envisioning that you're talking about is a cabinet just like a diagonal lazy susan base cabinet except that it would be full height?

If the door is only 17" wide, will you be able to reach your head and arm in there to get stuff? Or would you need super susans on every shelf? Or would there just be narrow shelving around the edge of the cabinet?

I just want to say Buehl, you are doing a seriously good job of holding together while dealing with these BIG issues.

Yes Alku! That's what I'm talking about and I agree...I'm concerned it will be too narrow. I wonder if doing something similar to your ovens would work OR maybe I could recess my ovens and then surround them w/pantry cabinets.... I think if I recess a 24" cabinet, I can get away w/36" legs rather than the 4' you needed....

Hmm........I'll have to draw it up & sleep on it! I knew all those questions I asked you a few months ago about your ovens would come in handy! LOL!! (Just not with this much angst!)

Okay -- I got it, but do you gain anything with having a corner pantry like that -- super deep and narrow door? I'd rather have a straight run like I do and put a message board or art on the end wall -- if that were to stay.

What if you ditched the corner idea and just placed tall cabinet(s) for pantry cabinets in line next to the ovens? It looks like once the wall by the ovens come out, and with the measurement error, you could have room for a 36" pantry cabinet.

I know it's not what you wanted, but it would hold a lot and be more convenient than any of the available corner options. We have a 36" tall, standard depth pantry and it really does hold a LOT. We have the style that has just two pullouts in the bottom, but I think getting your KD to spring for an upgraded version with lots of pullouts might make it fit you better. Also as Lascatx mentioned, with 36" to work with, you can choose to split that space up into an two 18" pullout towers, or a 12" tower and a standard pantry, or....

I don't have a corner pantry like that, but it sounds like it would be terribly inconvenient. It would be hard to see or reach what's in the back of the cabinet, and imagine all the rearranging you'd have to do whenever you wanted something from the back.

I mentioned on another thread that I have a corner cabinet (base only, not tall) with super susans on each shelf that I absolutely love. However, I use it for storing large pots and pans. If I were storing a lot of smaller items, I doubt I would be so enthusiastic.

I'm sorry you're having such an issue with everything. It's seems like you've had to start over, from square one, with your kitchen design. Isn't that why the KD was hired---so that these things would be worked out ahead of time? When I think of all the creative and practical solutions you've come up with for others' floorplans, it's just unbelievable that you're dealing with so many problems with this KD. You must be feeling, at this point, that you would have been better off without a KD at all. Hopefully, your KD will prove useful in the future.

Sorry I can't be more helpful, but I don't think I'd like an arrangement like what you describe for my pantry.

I'm so confused!!! :>(

Is there a reason for the little wall jutting out perpendicular to your end wall? Or is it just to frame out the pantry?

I think it'd be more practical and perhaps less expensive to just have a straight pantry 24" deep on the end wall. How many inches do you have left there? But, then I guess you do have a problem with shelves pulling out right next to a wall... This is where pullout shelves would be more practical than a large pullout unit, cuz you can access ingredients from the top of each shelf pulled out one at a time. With the pullout unit it would be hard to reach in as you lose access from the one side.

Maybe the KD would spring for the extra cost of pullout shelves if you decide to go that route?

I do remember seeing a pic of someone's kitchen who did have a pantry right next to one wall. She was happy with it- have no idea who it was though- sorry.

Will you lose your message center if you don't go with a corner pantry?

Oh, good catch, saraschloss....I missed that.

Here's my tall corner pantry (required due to two doorways) - I think mine is 24 by 20. I had them put doors on both sides for easier access. I am finding it very useful as a pantry.

dlspellman, beautiful kitchen. Very nicely done. I love it!

sixth picture down on far right of the URL below, there is a pic of a pantry like cabinet like you describe . . . but it's in a bathroom!! Is this what you're talking about? I think the double doors are a great idea.

Here is a link that might be useful: Corner cabinet

dlspellman,

Awesome Kitchen. Love the Armoire fridge/freezer.

Don't want to hijack the thread but what kind of wood flooring is that and what stain/sealer did you use? Floors are gorgeous.

Sdionnemoore, yes, that's the look! However, those doors look wider than 17"...so I wonder if it's really a 24" cabinet placed diagonally on the wall w/a finished end using plywood (or whatever) on the left and the other cabinet paced next to it on the right. Regardless of how it was done, it looks like it takes up more room on the walls than the depth of the cabinet...which is what I think is normal.

I played with that idea and I realized I was losing a lot of space in that layout. I was thinking of Alku's ovens but then I realized that Alku has counters running up to the sides of her oven cabinet so she at least has access to that space next to the ovens.

I have played and played and played with this. I cannot come up with a 24"x24"x24"x24" corner with a diagonal door...it has to be 36" on the wall sides. So, I called my KD last night about it and she keeps insisting that it will only take up 24" on the walls and that I will be able to have an 18" pantry on the left of the corner cabinet and another tall pantry cabinet on the right (whatever size I want), she also confirmed that the door will only be 17" wide.

So, I'm in process of drawing up

(1) what I think it will be. As with others, I don't think a 17" door will be wide enough to use a corner like that as a pantry.

(2) another idea that will use uppers that go down to the countertop and lowers.

I will post both later tonight

I wish I 3-D software to see what they look like, but I'll just have to use my imagination! My only problem with both of these solutions is that I suspect the cost is going to be significantly more than the walk-in pantry was going to be.

Oh, in the layout earlier in this thread, the small wall perpendicular to the FR wall is a wall for the walk-in pantry.

And yes, I really need a message center! I have no other place for keys, phone, calendar, etc...

Buehl, I haven't reread all the foregoing or done all the math, but I just had a thought... Couldn't you get a carpenter to frame out your pantry from plywood and 1x's instead of the drywall? Wouldn't that gain you about half the error back? You'd have to give up the shelves on that wall, and either use the studs on the real wall to carry the shelf weight, or put in uprights, but would that be enough to get your original pantry back, more or less? In fact, is there room between the studs of FR wall that you could steal as well for the shelving depth? I agree this isn't a lovely plan, but there's a difference between a stand up pantry and a series of cabinets. I don't think I'll miss my own walk-in when I get rid of it, because I don't use it well, but I appreciate the difference :) And those corner pantries are so cool :)

hello,

I just have to weigh in on this. We are in the process of re-doing our kitchen. The kitchen we just took out had a 24" x 24" pantry that went floor to ceiling and I have to say I would NOT want a similar cabinet in the new kitchen. It was not in a corner so easier to access items inside than what you would have, but still a terrible layout for keeping track of what is in there. I can't tell you how much stuff I came across in clearing out for the renovation that I never knew I had. Also, the taller part was not easy for me, as a shorter person, to access.

I designed our new pantry to be wide but shallow and not too tall. I measured the widest item I'd be storing (a cereal box) and designed the space around that.

Also, this is just personal and it really depends on the look you are going for, but I find corner/lazy suzy units to be so "new house" looking. In our situation we are going for a old New England look so I accepted dead corner space over a lazy suzy.

I hope this helps and doesn't offend anyone who loves the look of a diagonal cabinet.

Maybe its an easy reach?

bump

Update: The GC, my DH, and I got together (sans KD!) to figure out the pantry issue. And it looks like our corner step-in pantry is back on! No more worries about those corner cabinets! Yay! One for the home team!!!

We remeasured everywhere and made some adjustments (downsized filler from 3-1/2" to 1/2"....with KDs OK) and while the back wall will still be about 4-1/2" shorter than what was originally planned and the wall b/w the pantry and the FR will be longer by about 6" or so, we will still have about a 56" or 57" doorway to the FR. However, we will not be able to put the 27"x12" base & 27"x9" upper cabinets that were originally going to be our Message Center there (they were going to be turned 90o and placed against the pantry wall b/w the FR and kitchen). But at least I get my pantry back and still have a fairly wide doorway....which was a "must have".

For the Message Center, I don't know what we're going to do about it right now. We could put a 9" deep cabinet there...and still have a 48" doorway, but I'm not sure how a 9" deep cabinet will look...plus my KD did say that any cabinet shallower than 12" is a significant upcharge b/c it has to come from the Omega Custom line rather than Omega Dynasty/Embassy (semi-custom) line.

Or, maybe I could get a cabinet that's open w/shelves on the top and w/a drawer + doors on the bottom. 9" just seems so shallow!!! Would I even be able to store phone books there? (I don't know where our current phone books are right now...packed away somewhere!) One thing, our charging station (cell phones, cameras, etc.) was going to be there as well and it needs to be out in the open or I'll forget my cell phone in the morning! (Out of sight, out of mind!)

Anyone else have any ideas?

First of all, why does the upcharge on a 9" cabinet matter to YOU? Shouldn't your measurement-impared KD be picking up the tab for that seeing as it was her errorS that put you in this scrambling situation in the first place? You worked long and hard on this layout, and if you had the correct measurements, you would have most likely designed it quite differently so that you COULD fit in everything that you wanted.

Having said that though, I don't think a 9" cabinet will be able to do the job you want it to. My message center is in a 12" deep, 27" wide cabinet, and from looking at it, I have to say, 9" won't work. The phone books only have ~1.5 inches of extra room. I just can't see you happy with anything shallower.

What about stealing that precious 3" from the doorway? You could do a 45" doorway and fit in a 12" message center. I don't think you'll really notice the difference between the 45 and 48" doorway, but you sure will notice the difference in the message center!!

Echoing what Alku said!

Like the measurement-impaired title she stuck on your KD! :>)

I just measured one of my kitchen doorways (small one is 32"), so I'd say 45" is plenty. Ditto on the 9" being too narrow. WE had originally planned to have our broom closet sideways (same type of thing as your message centre). Thank God, we didn't, cuz there wouldn't have been enough depth for my brooms, mops. Boy, all those details, that you'd think someone should have caught!

Phone books are just shy of 9" deep, but 10.5" high, so 12" would allow you to position them either way. Binders are also 10.5" deep (FYI)

You know, you're right...these measurements should have been caught...and they were, sort of. I told my KD that I had different measurements than she did, but she said she was sure hers were right and that our differences were probably due to how I held the tape measure (whether it was "flat" & parallel to the floor the entire length), how I went into corners (I didn't bend the tape measure to get the measurement, I added the tape measure's "container" instead to the visible measurement), that I didn't account properly for the then existing walls, and that I didn't measure in the "right place". Plus, when she measured she had one of their other GCs out to help since our GC was ill. She also told me she measured 3 times and that all 3 times the measurements matched.

At that time I still trusted her. So, I let her talk me into believing her and we continued on. I thought that b/c this was her business and that she had been doing it for so long (25 years, she says), that she knew better than I did. In retrospect, I should have insisted she come out and measure yet again...with our GC present, not the other one.

Hmmmmmm....now that I think of it, the measuring and original layout were all done BEFORE I found this site... *sigh* I'm not sure I would have been so trusting back then if I had found this site earlier!

Anyway, the FR doorway, at my DH's instance must be at least 48" wide, preferably wider. For him, this is one of those "must haves". One of our goals in this remodel is to open up the Kitchen to the DR and keep the kitchen open to the FR. A doorway less than 48" is non-negotiable. I know which battles to fight and which not to... :-)

Thanks, btw, for measuring your phone books! What we TKOs do for our kitchens!!! :-D

Buehl, I don't know how your kitchen relates to the rest of your house, but where do you enter/leave the house? Where do you always drop your shoes and purse when you come in? This is where your charging station should be. Is it directly off of the kitchen? Is there a mud room, do you see the FR before you get there? Is there a coat closet?

If you can give a little context, I might be able to come up with a message center solution that doesn't rework your kitchen again. :-)

I gave up on getting the message center into the kitchen. I'm now planning on getting organizers for our hall closet that would include a message center, backpack storage, coats, phone books, and charging station.

Okay....

Can you put the message centre in the FR then? Doorway could be even wider than 48", and you earn brownie points towards the next 'engagement'?

Cuz, 9" is that the depth of the shelf or is it 9" minus the depth of the door AND the back wall of the cabinet? If your shelves are only 7 something inches deep I think you might be very very disappointed, not to mention upset at the added cost!

We come in the garage door that opens directly in the FR. The garage door is across the way from the pantry but just inside the FR. That's why the location was perfect! Here are pictures:

Picture 1: Doorway Locations

Picture 2: Base Cabinets

Picture 3: Upper/Wall Cabinets

That's very helpful. Do you have room for a small console/buffet (I have a couple that I found that are 36''W X 21''D) in the FR? They usually have a drawer inside cabinet doors so you could have a place to keep your pens/phone books, purse, etc., and put a charging station on top? It's not perfect, but it's better than nothing at all.

Could you put the message center where you currently have the pet station and just put the pet bowls in the 9'' next to the pantry? I'd rather put the dog food in a container inside the pantry and get the message center, than give the dogs a nice cabinet and lose the message center, but I don't know how necessary the pet center is to you (our dog is a 14 pounder, so his needs are probably smaller in scale than your dogs').

Just some thoughts.

In the FR against the Kitchen/pantry wall, we plan to put in some tall cabinets of some sort for books and other storage and maybe the TV/stereo components as well as put a 36" desk between them. That wall is 82-3/4" right now (it extends about 4' beyond the kitchen) plus we're adding another 18" or so to that wall for the pantry. That means we will have 100-3/4" to work with. We'll probably put in a 30" cabinet + 36" desk + 30" cabinet, all at least 24" deep. The desk may be 30" deep. That's the plan anyway. However, that will not be for at least a year or two. We need to save the $$$ to do it.

But before then, we'd like to put in a DIY Mudroom in our Garage. We need someplace for all the clutter, etc. We might be able to put the Message Center there, but I'm not sure we'll have the room...it's going to be a small Mudroom (we're taking a 5' x 10' bite out of one garage bay to do this...we will still have room to park a car in that bay, but just barely!)

So, in the mean time...I guess we'll have to find someplace else.

The Pet Center is where we plan to store the dogs' food, collars, leashes, etc. We feed them right around the corner in front of the PR where there is a little setback b/w the kitchen & PR. The counter above is my baking center...I don't think I want to put a phone, keys, etc. where the flour may be flying! My KA Mixer will also be housed in that corner on the counter. [We have 2 standard poodles, around 45 pounds & 55 pounds.]

Ruby & Shea (sister & brother)

I have just about every counter and cabinet planned out! Perhaps I could put the landline phone & answering machine on the DR peninsula...although, there will be prep sink in that corner and it's pretty far from the FR...I'll have to think some more!

Thanks for the suggestions!

Guess what! Two more measuring mistakes! Is anyone surprised at this point?

The cooktop wall is off by 7-1/2" and the PR is even worse...

It's actually 4'7-1/2" x 4'6" but our design says it's 5'7/8" x 5'5-3/8"!

More details on the linked thread, if you're interested.

Here is a link that might be useful: Thread: Kitchen Saga Update (long, but need yet more help!)

ugh, buehl. It's time to stop being nice to this KD and go to the manager at Expo. They owe you something SWEET. If they won't negotiate and aren't willing to make good, tell them you will be filing complaints with your State's Contractor's Licensing Board, the Better Business Bureau, and the county district attorney's consumer affairs division, and with consumer websites online, as well as the local TV station and newspaper ombudsman. That usually gets their attention.

We had a disaster with office built-ins we ordered from a closet company (not California Closets). For days, I argued, cajoled and sat around in the MESS they had made. Then I called them and told them I had looked up their license and was drafting my affidavit to go with the formal complaints I planned to file if they didn't fix it RIGHT NOW. 2 hours later, the office manager shows up with his very best crew. They had to tear everything out and start from scratch, but when they were done, boy was it nice. And they upgraded the closet system we were having them install at the same time. Total headache, will never use them again, but the serious threat of bad publicity and a mark on their license definitely lit a fire in the (ahem) appropriate location.

Sarah, after reading your post, I looked up my state's info. I'm trying to weed through it now...I was hoping I would find someplace that would tell me if there were any lawsuits or complaints against my GC or anyone else working on my house. But, so far no luck!

I did, however, find where to file a complaint...I've bookmarked that one!

And Angie's List has been pretty useless...not only have I not yet found a single contractor that I've been considering or went with, but it also doesn't cover the entire area. I have the "Baltimore" subscription, to get Frederick, Northern Virginia, or DC, I have to purchase additional subscriptions! I don't think I'll be renewing my subscription when it expires!

Thanks for the suggestion!

Try googling "I Hate ___" and your big box store of choice. There are websites galore to post your saga and complaint.

Every state has a contractor's licensing board. They'll have a number you can call. Also, the county district attorney has a "consumer affairs" division for filing complaints. Give them a call and they might be able to give you additional leads. Look into small claims court requirements in your area, although a kitchen redo should really send you into regular court if the entire thing is a disaster.

Angie's List, IMO, is not very helpful. I've used them several times and it's always hit or miss. Plus, I keep getting highball estimates.