Lostmama, I completely agree with garden60! Don't call, write, etc. since he won't reply and it will jab that knife down even deeper into the wound. I reached out 3-4 times to my son, and yet he told me he wanted no contact, nothing. Finally in February I quit trying. I'm still pretty miserable, but I am getting better. I'm very involved in my younger sons life right now, which helps a great deal. I have my garden and pond to attend to regularly, which is a great stress reliever. I haven't posted on hear yet that I have heard from my son. My son called me yesterday, and left a message. I truly didn't think he would respond to my request for him to call us when he was back in the country (in the birthday card I sent him, which was only sent because he did send me a mother's day card stating 'we could now call him.') I figured that after I put the ball back in his court to call us, that he would make us wait a few weeks to show us who is boss. Anyway, he called and left a message on our house phone as I was busy in the yard. I called him back and got his v mail (on his cell phone, not home!) My son called relatively soon after my message. We had a cordial, but awkward conversation. My son was pleasant, and asked about his dad's skin cancer. I was very low key, sounding laid back, happy to hear from him, but not bubbling over. We talked about his upcoming trip to Italy, his trip to Mexico for his job, about a visit to the cardiologist for high blood pressure (gee, I wonder why?)whether he got my card for his b-day, etc. He thanked me for the b-day card. I told him about my garden and pond, suggested he have a home tester for his blood pressure (even though all his tests came out normal, and his blood pressure has gone back down.) I could hear my dil in the background putting dishes away, or at least I believe it was her since we know men can't multi task :) My son told me after about 10 minutes that he should get going so he could help his wife with dinner. I said ok, and told him I loved him. This is where it got interesting. There was a distinct hesitation before he responded that he loved me too. At first I thought I was being paranoid thinking that he didn't want to tell me he loved me in front of my dil, but now I know that that is what had to be true. Two people I've told that to (my hubby and a very good friend,) both stated that that is why he hesitated, even before I could tell them what my opinion was. So what, this girl won't allow him to say he loves me in front of her? Boy if that's the case, I bet he caught all heck once he hung up the phone. I guess i have to be happy that he felt he needed to say it back to me, regardless of whether she was there or not. Maybe that's a positive sign of things to come.....eventually! I didn't say anything to him regarding calling again, when I'd see him, nothing, zilch, zero!! He didn't say anything to me in that regard either. I also let him wonder whether his dad was home and not talking to him, or that his dad was out of town on business. I felt that if he wanted to know where his dad was, he should ask. Let him think his dad doesn't want to talk to him, afterall, he has it coming. I know that sounds mean, but I've reached a point that he gets what he gives, and he has given so much hurt in the last 4 years that I am amazed I've survived. I've finally reached a point where I don't expect to see him. It's truly amazing. I go out to do my thing outside, and some days I'm not even thinking of him until later in the day. This is a huge improvement. I no longer expect him to walk up behind me, put his arm on my shoulder and tell me how much he loves me, and how wrong he has been. I guess I tired of that fantasy...it just hurt too much knowing it would never happen. Lostmama, Garden60 and sarahsmom, we all have major head cases as dil's that have poisoned our sons minds with lies and emotional abuse. It is so hurtful to think that the boys we loved could reach a point where they could be turned against us, but I guess we can't ever underestimate the power of evil women over nice guys. What's that old saying, 'nice guys finish last.' I really don't believe that, but I do think there is a lot to be said for it's meaning, all the same. I do think we may have our sons back someday, in a way that is similar to what they once were. It is going to be a long time coming, but something's gotta give at some point. Boys take a long time to really become men, and some much longer then others. Our boys found love, and think that the only way to keep it is by obeying their girls every demand. I think most will reach a point that they tire of having to behave exactly how she tells them to. I only wish that time was sooner, then later. Still, I do have a smidgen of hope now. However, I have no delusions that my dil will be any different. My husband and I have already made an agreement that we will never be mistreated by her/them again. If they can't love and accept us for who we are, then they can be out of our lives. We are not bad, awful people. We raised our kids with nothing but love, support, kindness and being there. We don't deserve the over dramatization of every single thing we do or say. I will be me, and my husband will be himself, and if we say something that she finds offense with, so be it. I'm done groveling. I swear I will never be taken advantage like that ever again. We've agreed to keep each other in check in case one of us slips up. Afterall, we are nice people, we do not think the way our dil does, so it would be easy to slip up. I'm so tired of caring right now, I have truly reached a point where I can say good riddens (at least for the most part.) anniebal

straycat wandering, I have been to a hypnotist as a last resort (multiple counselors, therapists, psychiatrists, psychologists, etc)---you get the point---I even went through a battery of psychological testing to see if there was something wrong with me---as I just couldn't figure out how our kind loving son could just throw us out of his life like the trash when we were such good parents. We have had no contact in almost three years except for several nasty phone calls, and emails from GF(possibly finance or wife by now). BTW psychological tests showed I was depressed due to the situation with my son--no other psychological problems. Son and GF both have excellent education and make lots of money. They waited until our son was financially independent before disowning us. They still have contact with her father. We paid for our son's college expenses yet girlfriend is probably 200,000 in student loan debt--she is a pharmacist, he a computer engineer. Anyway what I discovered is that everyone of them (counselors, etc) in the end told me I just needed to get over it----stop focusing on the negative and move on with my life. I spend thousands on various types of counseling---you name it, I probably tried it. I don't think these professionals realize this new trend---I even read in Dr. Coleman's book that adultchild/parent estrangement has reached epidemic proportions. Dr. Coleman as I understand still had communication with his estranged daughter and is now reunited---so I think he has given up interest in the topic-----There is just simply little information out their and something these counseling professionals don't know how to handle,especially when the child refuses any communication. I am sure someday--probably too late for us---this problem will happen to more and more of these professionals and then they will begin to understand how "getting over it and moving on with your life is hard after spending 20+ years being there for your child and then with no warning they never want to see you again for no logical reason. Hypnotism may help you, but just wanted to share my experience before you spent the money.

First I would like to say that I'm very sorry to hear about your son and his illness. I'm sorry to hear about your estrangement and what you are facing. I'm certain you do fear rejection and I can fully understand why. With that said, I think a letter a good place to start, although I'm unsure what to offer as far as writing a letter, so I will offer you a website below which I find is very helpful for people who are experiencing or have experienced estrangement. Maybe start the letter by stating what you have here--that you are pleased, happy and proud and you find it comforting that he told you that he was happy. As for the website below, I would strongly urge you to take a look at it as it may help you and provide you with comfort and maybe even provide you with some inspiration to find the words to write your son. Good luck to you with this...you have my hearfelt understanding... Here is a link that might be useful: E-stranged

Khandi, Thank you for the post and links. One common thread I find is that most estranged children don't have any capacity to forgive. They expect their parents to "change" for them. Well, I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but people can't and won't change for other people. I know this for a fact because I have tried to change my parents over the past 42 years. After many years of repeated disappointment, I finally gave up and learned to accept them for who they are. PEOPLE! I think that acceptance and healing the hurt is the only way of ending an estrangement. The bottom line is this: NONE of us are perfect parents. There isn't a parent on the planet who hasn't made some mistakes along the way. BUT is it fair for our children to spend the rest of our lives making us pay for those mistakes? I can speak with validity on the subject. I didn't/don't have the greatest parents. I have all kinds of issues stemming from a childhood of emotional abuse. However, I choose not to blame all of my current problems on my parents. I am grown now and fully responsible for my own decisions, reactions, and behaviors. I do not alienate my parents. I chose to forgive them for their short-comings. "People are people." This includes parents. Sometimes I think children idolize their parents too much. They put them on a pedestal and expect them to be perfect. We screw-up and they throw us out with the bathwater. I don't know why our children can't accept that we aren't nor will we ever be perfect, forgive us, and move forward. Instead they continue to punish us for something we can't possibly fix. The past is the past, we can't change it. The only thing we can control is the future. If my daughter can't forgive (what? could SHE have a short-coming?) then so be it. I will continue to move forward without her. Life is too short and the moments too precious. In the end, when we are all gone, 100 years from now, will it even matter? No one will know and no one will care. "Live for today" is my new motto. I for one, am tired of being a victim of something I can't control. I am reclaiming my right to live a happy, healthy, and satisfying life with or without my daughter. Have a great night, kmttsmom