yoyobon, "That is a road better left untraveled." I don't understand what you meant by this other than you may feel that it will not help you to move forward and what you define as forward. "...there is nothing...NOTHING...that I can do today to change one moment of my history as a parent." No, you cannot change the past other than to understand it and to acknowledge what behaviors could have contributed to the situation in the present. I don't feel that is nothing. Deep understanding is beneficial. I would not dwell on how you cannot change the past, especially if you are contemplating letting her know of any regrets you may have. I basically don't understand why so many people get stuck here and recite this repeatedly. It sounds too much like they do not want to work on themselves or do the work necessary to make ammends--that point in the relationship where they have deep understanding of the issues. As to making amends, apologizing and expressing heartfelt regret, I also would only take that step after careful consideration as well. It needs to be a sincere effort, not a last resort bandaid to try to fix the situation. People know when it isn't sincere and when someone offers a non-apology, because they demonstrate cluelessness about what happened, stating that they don't understand. They cling to non-understanding in the role they played in the conflict. "I can offer my regrets and apologies...what good are they?" I disagree with the above statement. I think when they are sincere it can make an incredible difference. The problem as I see it as that they usually are not sincere and that there is no remorse or true understanding given. I've also had to learn and to practice grief for people who have died. I've done it for the living too--the new grief that you speak of. I believe that adult children who also estrange themselves do so with full acknowledgement that they are too mourning a loss. In fact, I can assure you that they do. They may just express it differently. "I like to believe that my daughter is better without all of us, her family...for whatever reasons." She may be for this period in her life feel like she is better off or at least feel more peaceful, despite it feeling hurtful for you to contemplate this. I don't know what is going on in her life and what stresses she is managing or coping with. Sometimes people in our lives deepen our burdens and cause more stress to us, even if it is unintended. They do so with their trying to help, when maybe one isn't asking for help. They harm in countless ways which they don't seem to understand. Your daughter sounds like she needs privacy and space and I would give it to her. Be generous with your heart to her and give her this. As for an apology there is the right time and place and it sounds from what you wrote above that she needs a lot of room and space. "Only she knows her true motivation for destroying each of us in the manner that she chose to do it." That is correct. Only she knows her true motivation. Maybe she tried to tell you something, which you couldn't hear. I don't know and saying that to you is not a judgement. Yes, you are not her and do not know what is in her heart. And you may feel hurt and lonely, but she has not destroyed you. If her husband is a narcissist as you describe then she will need you to forgive her. She will have to deal with it on her own or at least maybe she can find what it is that she will need to do without others burdening her heart with guilt, shame or their needs and opionions, whether they intentionally mean to hurt her or not. The best you can give to her would be non-judgement and unconditional love. You can still love your daughter and grandchildren with the full measure of your heart through understanding and generosity--give her time, space and privacy. Maybe what you can do for you now is to consider therapy for yourself. It may help you to cope with this process and grieveing and the pain that is in your heart. Some people don't like taking those steps, but I think it wise to take care of yourself. What you say will stay between you and the therapist and remain confidential, which I believe is a much healthier way for some people to address deep feelings of loss and emotional pain without other people's judgements or personal adgenda's. My in-laws and family members have not taken measures to make amends. It would have made a difference to me, especially if their had been some kind of deep understanding of the issues and if I had been able to have felt their sincerity. It makes a huge difference--it would have for me.

I've noticed too that a great deal of the threads in this forum deal with the parent's side of an estrangement. I really feel for these parents but I can't help but wonder if my own mother feels the same sense of loss that they do. My mother had me two months after she turned 17. I realize that she worked very hard to provide for my physical needs, and I always had food to eat, clothes on my back, and a roof over my head. When I was 8 years old, she sent me to live with my grandparents, since she was not able to provide for me at the time. I grew very close to my grandparents. Two years later, she returned to get me and introduced me to my new stepfather. Everything went fine for several years, until she gave birth to my brothers. Suddenly I was no longer part of her new family. I am not sure what caused the shift, but she grew cold towards me. I was 14 years old at the time. I got good grades in school, had a job, and was involved in extracurricular activities at school. No matter what I did, it wasn't good enough. Many days I would be scared to come home from school, because the simple act of walking through the door and saying "hi" would cause her to start screaming at me. By the time I was 16, the fighting was so bad that I was no longer allowed to use the telephone or see my friends. I got accused of horrible things, and when I denied doing those things, she called me a liar. At one point she told me that having me was a mistake, and she wished she hadn't. Almost immediately after graduating high school, I moved in with my grandparents again. My grandmother told me that I should have a relationship with my mother, no matter what. I always considered her a very wise person, so I did as she told me to. But the relationship felt strained and fake to me. It bothered me that she wouldn't hug me or tell me she loved me. Mostly I spoke to her so that I could see my brothers, whom I love very much. This strained relationship went on until two years ago, when many things happened at once. First my grandfather died of pancreatic cancer. My grandmother was extremely depressed and lonely, as they had been married for 50 years. One night, a few months later, she called me to her room at 4 am, complaining of the worst headache of her life. I got her into the hospital, and she died two weeks later of complications resulting from a brain aneurysm. I was absolutely heartbroken. I have a very large family, and they seemed to understand how upset I was. My mother did too, at the time. She offered me a place to stay for a little while, until I found somewhere else. Although my friends were frantically telling me not to, I moved back in with her for three weeks. The coldness started again the day I moved in. I tried to ignore it. Finally, on Christmas Eve, my aunt invited me to Christmas brunch at her house the next morning. She told me that it was to happen at 11 am. My mother later told me that it had been changed to 9 am. So, when I showed up at my aunts house at 9 am, and noticed that nobody was there, especially my mother, I got pretty upset. I kept to myself for four days, until my mother came to me and asked me if she could have my rent early. I told her no. I had been saving up for a security deposit on another place, and paying her early would have set me back. This caused a huge blowout fight. She locked me out of her house, and wouldn't let me in to get my stuff. So I called the police. When they arrived, she ran up to their cars and tried to pretend that she had called them on me. She stood there and told them that I had never paid her any rent. My brother, who was standing there watching, said "Mom, why are you lying? I've seen her pay you three times!" She proceeded to lie and belittle me to the police officers, who eventually got tired of it and told her to shut up. She told me that I was a failure, that I had used my grandparents, and finally that I could "have fun being homeless". At that point, I told her I was done with her. I got my belongings out of her house, and didn't speak to her for a year. Finally, last Thanksgiving, my family talked me into trying to reconcile with her so that we could both come to dinner. I sent a friendly email, and she sent a lukewarm one back. But she didn't show for Thanksgiving. My brother told me later that she said she had never done wrong by me, and I should just forgive her because she's my mother. Well, that statement infuriated me. You see, I've noticed on these boards that many of the estranged parents speak of "entitlement". You know what? I don't want or need financial support or anything like that. What I felt entitled to was love and respect. I did not get the love or respect I feel I deserved. I didn't ask to be brought onto this planet. And what I feel "entitled" to now is for her to take responsibility for her actions, and say "Ok, I messed up bad, and I'm sorry." I am fully willing to take responsibility for my actions. In fact, I think that people being unwilling to take responsibility is what keeps many of these estrangements going. Even though I made the decision not to speak to her anymore, it hurts me. But I cannot and will not have any person in my life who makes me feel bad about myself. I am not a masochist. To make matters worse, the rest of my family, as soon as they realized that I was not going to reconcile with her, stopped speaking to me without even asking for my side of the story. That hurts too. But people need to realize that not all estrangements are caused because so-and-so wouldn't buy their child a house or pay their bills. I apologize for the length of this, but I really needed to get it off my chest...

Hello, it is me again. I went to see her, and it went so-so. When I got there, she was recovering from her 1st round of chemo but after 2 days had to take her to the hospital as she got very ill. I honestly thought she might die and after speaking to her Dr privately he had the same feelings. My aunt was there taking care of her and at first I felt sorry for her. She has parkinsons and had travelled away from her own family to be there for my mother. My mother was not very kind to her at times. I stayed with my aunt at my moms house- and while my aunt and I were spedning alot of time alone together, due to mom being hospitalized she turned into a very ugly person. I explained alot about ym childhood and why I wasn't in contact with my mother. She began by telling me she was aware of the abuse- then she went onto bad mouthing my mother, calling her self centered, a liar, that basically she got what she deserved, and on and on. She was cussing and yelling. Later on she confessed to me that she had previously been addicted to morphine. And that her husband had done time for manufacturing meth. Now, I have had no dealings withthis woman until this and I felt very out of my element, as I have not been exposed to this type of person. She was acting paranoid and would not give me any privacy. A closed door to make a call to my husband would be met with questioning. I was able to speak to my mothers Dr and she grilled me over that. I could do on but you get the idea. On the last night I was there to stay I ended up having to leave in the middle of the night as I was afraid she might actually hurt me. Despite my aint's best efforts, I was able to get my mother alone for a bit and said goodbye to her. I told her I wish I had known her better but that she didn't make things easy. My aunt came in and interrupted that scene. I am not sure if going was the right thing to do. I got to say goodbye to my mother- but she never said sorry for anything, expressed any regrets at the estrangement, nothing. On top of that my aunt now hates me and does not call me or return my calls with updates of my mothers condition. I know she had a 2nd round of chemo and that she got sick again and is thinking of giving up. The situation goes on. It is killing me and I don't know what else to do. Nothing I suppose. While I was there I helped get a few things sorted out- bought a wireless wouter so she could look at her PC from her bed. I gave her a laptop. Not met with much appreciation. I signed her up for a support group but I don't think she ever looked at the site. I sent her a long and thoughtful email, offering her to come and die at my home in OK, detailed and offering to take care of everything for her. I was sitting there when she read it and she deleted it w/o a word. Now, I opned my heart and home to this womand and she can't even look at me and acknolwledge that? My husband thinks she should NOT come here at this point, and I have to agree, given how the visit went. I had no expectations she had changed, I have no idea why I threw myself 'out there' emotionally. I guess I felt it was the right thing to do. I do have concerns about my aunt and my moms aresenal or morphine, fentantyl and oxycontin but I have done all I can do. Thanks for letting me update. I will write more when there is more. Seeing an ill stranged parent sure is a mixed bag.

Silver, I am not attacking Bucyn. She has been attacking me. Go back and read all of her posts to me whenever I was sharing some of my story. Regardless, I am DONE with this site. It is obvious to me that there are some very catty women on here and I choose not to be involved on this website any further. Obviously you have not read all of her damaging posts on here to several women. To those of you who have experienced what I have on here I wish you well. It would appear that we have enough to deal with in our lives with our children without having to take on complete strangers who are vicious. Good luck to the rest of you...it is a shame that the support I was looking for on here is damaged by this one woman and now evidently there are two women like her on here. Is Silver the other one I was warned about? Or is this Bucyn with a new identity? By the way, the idea that she has several identities on here was told to me by someone else, so it is not a new idea. And Bucyn? You win ... have fun ruining this forum for everyone else.