Best to have the right thing but, in a pinch, I'd sub chicken broth maybe even veggie broth. I surely would not sub fish or oyster sauce.

It would really depend on what I was making and how much the recipe called for. If I was making chowder, then yes, I would make the effort to get clam juice, if I was making clams casino and wasn't going to use the small amount of wine called for and didn;t have clam juice then I would sub chicken broth.

Alexa

If you have plenty of clams but no (or not much) clam juice, you could puree some of the clams and add to the chicken stock.

I always sub chicken broth for clam juice. Even in clam chowder. I don't care for clam juice at all.

Ann

Ditto on what Jim said. Dashi is a very light fish stock, made traditionally from shavings off blocks of dried bonito, flavored with kelp...but I just use the instant, Dashi-No-Moto. I often use it instead of water when making seafood chowders or soups, or for a bit of extra flavor in fish stocks.

I think I have a small jar of clam base paste in the pantry.
Kind of salty stuff.

dcarch

If you are making something that will have shrimp shells, you might look at the video below at chow.com. I have used the recipe in the video, reducing it down a bit more than called for.

Here is a link that might be useful: Shrimp Stock video

I agree with all you said, especially you Chase, I wasn't about to sub those! Not the same. At all.

Question to you Ann. Since you don't use clam juice does it lack anything, for which you substitute? In this case, I would've guessed salt, as dcarch said. Do you add anything else in your chowder to compensate for lack of clam juice? Because, that is exactly what I was making.

Not to criticize Ann for her preferences, but chowder made from chicken stock is chicken chowder, not clam chowder. Clam juice or chicken stock are often recommended as subs for fish stock but it doesn't work the other way around. So far as my suggestion of Dashi (fish stock) as a sub for clam juice, chowder made with fish stock is fish chowder. The essential ingredient in clam chowder is clam broth. The clam meat is secondary. This will be clear to anyone who has sipped plain clam broth along with steamed clams. The broth is thin looking but exceedingly rich and flavorful.

Jim

mussel juice is a good substitute for clam juice. Much cheaper to make.

dcarch

I wouldn't sub chicken broth for clam juice. What you are making wouldn't taste how it was supposed to be. Chicken broth isn't even close in taste to clam juice. I would just go out and buy it or wait for another time to make it. NancyLouise

I agree with nancylouise and Jimster.

If you are making chowder and using something other than clam juice, then it isn't really clam chowder. Go get the clam juice.

Alexa

I did, I always was :)

just asking for "next time". Didn't sound plausible to me! And as I can see, it's really not. Maybe we're all just purists.

Not to criticize anyone for his or her preferences, but, in my opinion, if you use anything other than the liquid from fresh (as in was-in-the-water-six-hours-ago fresh)shucked clams, it just isn't clam chowder to me.

We collect it as we shuck and consider it liquid gold.

(Do I get the award for the longest sentence on this thread?)

Jo

Uncle! I defer totally to the East coasters. You guys know your clams! Actually I have only ever used clam juice, just seemed like in a pinch chicken or veggie broth might do but then again if you have to pinch...make something else!

I keep clam soup base (and lobster & crab soup base) in the refrigerator. When I buy them at Surfa's Restaurant Supply, they are stored refrigerated, and so that's how I store them. They can only be used in recipes that otherwise call for salt, and then I substitute the soup base for the salt. I have at times substituted lobster or crab soup base for clam juice, but it still is a different flavor.

Lars

Posted by jojoco " ------- but, in my opinion, if you use anything other than the liquid from fresh (as in was-in-the-water-six-hours-ago fresh)shucked clams, it just isn't clam chowder to me. --------Jo "

I am going to have to agree. Absolutely!

dcarch

Now that we've had a spirited discussion of clam juice, I have to ask rob333, the original post, what were you making? Some of us apparently assumed it was clam chowder, but I don't think you ever said what it was.

Jim

"Do you add anything else in your chowder to compensate for lack of clam juice? Because, that is exactly what I was making."

I think it was chowder..........

A

Fresh scungilli (conch) makes a rich clam juice like broth.

The most exquisit clam juice like broth is made using Chinese dried scallops. The problem is, this kind of dried scallops are $200 to $300 a lb. depending on size. It is highly priced by the Chinese for making soup.

dcarch

So it was chowder. That settles it. Start with live clams. They are available just about everywhere I believe because they ship well. Remember, the clam broth is the essence of the chowder. Don't dilute it too much with the milk or cream.

Jim

And to stir the pot even more.....thick or thin? lol NancyLouise

It was flounder chowder. Thick is the only way to go Nancy, isn't it? (((grin))), as Annie says.

-Robin

I know I will get smacked in the head with that flounder by traditionalist but that's my preference Robin. Thick, but not so much so that the spoon stands up straight when put in the middle of the bowl. And always fresh, right from the dock/fish monger seafood. I know not every one has that opportunity as I do living in Maine, but oh my, the taste can't be matched when using fresh ingredients. Enjoy the chowder. Care to share the recipe? NancyLouise

I was eating a four star restaurant (the best Nashville has to offer) last week, not that I am trying to brag, just making the point, they, of all places should know better... when I asked what the soups of the day were. He told me "mushroom-something stew". And I said, "Oh, a thicker/heartier...???" (which is what I was looking for). And he said, "No, the mushrooms are what make it stew. They're hearty. It's in a thin broth". What?! Isn't stew thickened (otherwise, it's a soup, right?). My bigger point being, I agree on thick; sticks to your ribs better that way.

It was pretty good. It received the highest rating on Epicurious' site. I decided to, God only knows why, to try a different one than the two that I have which are delicious. Ohiomom has a fish chowder that is the best I've ever eaten. I can post that Monday if you want it. Second, is a recipe from William-Sonoma. I love it and next time, I'll sub fish for the crab in it. Here are two of the three:

Epicurious
Fish Chowder with Herbed Oyster Crackers
Gourmet : November 1995

Yield: Serves 2 as a main course

4 slices bacon, chopped
1 small onion, chopped fine
1 carrot, chopped fine
1 celery rib, chopped fine
1 tablespoon unsalted butter
2 teaspoons all-purpose flour
1/2 teaspoon paprika
8 ounces bottled clam juice
1 cup water
1/2 cup heavy cream
1 russet (baking) potato (about 1/2 pound)
3/4 pound firm white fish fillet such as halibut or cod, skin discarded and flesh cut into 1-inch pieces
2 tablespoons minced fresh parsley leaves

Accompaniment: herbed oyster crackers:
1 1/2 tablespoons unsalted butter
1/4 teaspoon dried thyme, crumbled
1/4 teaspoon dried rosemary, chopped fine
1 1/2 cups packaged oyster crackers

To make the fish chowder:

In a heavy saucepan cook bacon over moderate heat, stirring, until crisp and transfer with a slotted spoon to paper towels to drain. Pour off fat and in pan cook onion, carrot, and celery in butter over moderately low heat, stirring occasionally, until softened.

Sprinkle flour over mixture and cook, stirring, 3 minutes. Stir in paprika and cook, stirring, 30 seconds. Add clam juice, water, and cream and bring to a boil, stirring occasionally.

While mixture is coming to a boil, peel potato and cut into 1/4-inch dice. Add potato to mixture and simmer chowder, uncovered, 12 minutes. Stir in fish and simmer until just cooked through, about 5 minutes. Stir in parsley, bacon, and salt and pepper.

Serve chowder with herbed oyster crackers.

To make the crackers:

Preheat oven to 350°F.

In a small saucepan melt butter with thyme, rosemary, and salt and pepper to taste over moderate heat, stirring. Add crackers and toss to coat with butter. On a baking sheet arrange crackers in one layer and bake in middle of oven 10 minutes, or until deep golden.

Makes 1 1/2 cups.

________________________________________________________________________________________________

The better one....

Williams-Sonoma Crab Bisque
"The best-tasting crabmeat comes from crabs you cook yourself. If you have access to live crabs, use them to make this bisque. Two 2-lb. Dungeness crabs or eight to ten hard-shelled blue crabs will yield about 1 lb. of crabmeat. You can also buy cooked crabs and extract the meat. Fresh lump crabmeat is the next-best option, especially if you are short on time; look for it at fish markets. Otherwise, use frozen or canned crabmeat, drained and quickly rinsed."

Ingredients:
1 Tbs. unsalted butter
1 Tbs. canola or grapeseed oil
3 large shallots, minced
5 cups fish or chicken stock
2 cups heavy cream
Kosher salt and freshly ground white pepper,
to taste
3⁄4 to 1 lb. fresh or thawed frozen lump
crabmeat, picked over for shell fragments
(3 to 4 cups)
1⁄2 cup dry sherry, dry Marsala or Madeira
Minced fresh tarragon or flat-leaf parsley
for garnish
Directions:
In a large soup pot over medium heat, melt the butter with the oil. Add the shallots and sauté until translucent, 2 to 3 minutes. Add the stock and cream, and season with kosher salt and white pepper. Bring to a simmer.

Reduce the heat to low and stir in the crabmeat. Cook until heated through, about 5 minutes. Stir in the sherry and heat for 2 to 3 minutes. Taste and adjust the seasonings. Ladle the soup into warmed shallow bowls and garnish with tarragon. Serve immediately.
Serves 8.

Adapted from Williams-Sonoma Collection Series, Christmas, by Carolyn Miller (Simon & Schuster, 2003).

Thanks for the recipes Robin. I'll add them to my file. Once the weather gets colder(we are having our Indian summer days at the present time)I'll give them a try. NancyLouise

"And to stir the pot even more.....thick or thin? lo"

Toublemaker!!! Can we compromise on medium? LOL

Speaking of other chowders, restaurants here often offer a choice of clam chowder or seafood chowder. Your guess is good as mine so far as what is in the seafood chowder but I understand it good. I think fish chowder is a good idea. I want to make some soon.

Jim

Robin, now you've gone and done it. Here it's salmon chowder, with salmon fresh from The Lake. And I want some. I like it thick, if that matters and I like this recipe from Gourmet magazine. And look, no broth at all, LOL, plus it has bacon! Has to be good...

Great Lakes Salmon Chowder

1/2 pound red potatoes
1/2 pound sliced bacon, cut crosswise into 1/4-inch-wide strips
2 cups chopped scallions (from 2 bunches)
1 cup fresh or frozen corn
1 tablespoon finely chopped garlic (3 cloves)
1 teaspoon finely chopped fresh thyme
1 Turkish or 1/2 California bay leaf
1/8 teaspoon dried hot red-pepper flakes
3 cups whole milk
2/3 cup heavy cream
1 (1 1/2-pound) piece salmon fillet (preferably wild), skin discarded and fish cut into 1-inch pieces
1/2 teaspoon salt
1/4 teaspoon black pepper
2 teaspoons fresh lemon juice

Garnish: chopped fresh chives

Cut potatoes into 1/2-inch cubes, then cook inboiling salted water until just tender, 8 to 10 minutes. Drain in a colander and set aside.

Cook bacon in a 5-quart heavy pot over moderate heat, stirring occasionally, until crisp, about 8 minutes. Transfer with a slotted spoon to paper towels to drain. Pour off all but 2 tablespoons fat from pot, then cook scallions, corn, garlic, thyme, bay leaf, and red-pepper flakes in fat in pot over moderately low heat, stirring occasionally, until scallions are tender, about 5 minutes. Add milk and cream and bring just to a boil. Reduce heat to moderately low, then add potatoes, salmon, bacon, salt, and pepper and cook, gently stirring occasionally, until salmon is just cooked through and begins to break up as you stir, 5 to 8 minutes. Stir in lemon juice and salt and pepper to taste. Discard bay leaf before serving.

Annie

Posted by jimster ""And to stir the pot even more.....thick or thin? lo"
Toublemaker!!! Can we compromise on medium? LOL

Speaking of other chowders, restaurants here often offer a choice of clam chowder or seafood chowder. Your guess is good as mine so far as what is in the seafood chowder but I understand it good. I think fish chowder is a good idea. I want to make some soon. Jim "

In that case, let me stir the pot some more. :-)

What's wrong with you people? No one has heard of Manhattan clam chowder before?

FYI: "Adding tomatoes to clam chowder was shunned, to the point that a 1939 bill making tomatoes in clam chowder illegal was introduced in the Maine legislature."

dcarch

It's me again reminding everybody about Rhode Island's clam chowder. It's clear & all about the broth. That would be clam not chicken or veggie. (grin)

Seafood chowder in my neck of the woods is usually scallops, lobster, clams, and cod. On a scale of 1-10, I like the thickness about a 3-4 with a pat of good butter melting on the top. I also prefer it served with Vermont Common Crackers.

/tricia

Regarding clam casino, do not gamble; use the best and lots of clams.

I have found that in Asian store here, they sell fresh giant clams, which are much cheaper than cherry stones or little necks. If you are going to chop them up anyway, what’s the difference?

dcarch

When I go clamming, I only keep the large ones if I am making chowder. As Dcarch said, they will be cut up anyway. Occasionally, one of my kids will serve a steamed chowder (huge) clam to an unsuspecting guest. We call it "clam gum". The poor guest just chews, and chews and chews.

As an aside, the best accompaniment for steamed clams, imo, is to take the remaining water from the steamer, add a chunck of butter, fresh pepper and salt. The shell serves as a drip catcher as you eat it. Oh, and clams that have had a chance to "spit" will not be sandy. The broth will be grit free.

Compromise is a good thing Jim. I swing both ways when it comes to chowder, but I do have my preferences.
Dcarch, blasphemy! Tomatoes and clams should not even be mentioned in the same sentence let alone be in the same pot of chowder! I think I'm gonna' faint! Quick someone get me a chair...no wait a bar stool would be better and something in a high ball class too. lol NancyLouise

Posted by nancylouise "------Dcarch, blasphemy! Tomatoes and clams should not even be mentioned in the same sentence let alone be in the same pot of chowder! ------ lol NancyLouise "

I have to agree with you 100%. It is crazy to have tomatoes and clams togrther.

Tomatoes should be enjoyed by themselves. Why would anyone want to mess up the good taste of wonderful tomatoes with fresh clams ?! LOLOL

dcarch

Has anyone here had Clamato juice. I haven't.

(Just trying to stretch the limits of this topic still farther.) :-)

Jim

Oh I love my Bloody Caesars! Tomato juice, clam juice and vodka....or Clamato juice instead of the tomato and clam juice, if you are lazy. Fresh ground pepper, bit of celery salt and a splash of tabasco!

I'll go with you east coasters on the clam chowdah but leave my Bloody Caesars and Bloody Mary's alone!

Were I came from we called that a clam digger....

A Google search on Bloody Caesar led me to the link below which says, among other things, "A Caesar or Bloody Caesar is a cocktail created and primarily consumed in Canada." How appropriate! Eh, Chase?

I don't know why people disparage Wikipedia. I learn a lot of good stuff there.

Jim

Here is a link that might be useful: Caesar Cocktail

The Oyster Bar is a great place in NYC.

Check out their menu:

Oyster Bar Menu

dcarch

"The Oyster Bar is a great place in NYC."

Indeed!!! That menu hasn't changed noticeably in decades. It's an incredible selection and you can count on everything to be just excellent. All the preparations are classic, no chasing after trends. I'm always amazed at the oyster selection. Desert lovers will be happy there too. It has a unique business-like ambience with rather industrial, tiled, vaulted ceilings. Out-of-towners should be aware that they aren't open week-ends, so plan your days accordingly.

It's hard to describe this restaurant adequately. It has style, history, a special type of charm and that astounding menu. I can't think of a place I'd rather eat. I wish I could get there often.

Jim

OMG Sharon - I do value you as a friend.... so I am going to tell you straight up. If you EVER order a Bloody Ceaser in the state of Maine I can almost guarantee the bartender will do something nasty to it before it arrives at your table. They are the most revolting drinks on the planet! EW! Clam & tomato is horrific to even think about and I promise you.... almost every bartender in Maine will agree with me.

A

Thanks for the heads up.......will I be safe with a Bloody Mary ; )

"Oh I love my Bloody Caesars! "

"They are the most revolting drinks on the planet!"

Now I have to try one. Strictly in the interests of science mind you. LOL!

I only drink for medicinal purposes. Or science. Or...

Jim

Not true, the most revolting drink on the face of the planet is anything with tequila in it. Then again, Elery would say it's anything with vodka in it, he HATES vodka.

Just another couple of opinions, LOL, so I'll be looking forward to Jim's assessment. No way am I mucking up perfectly good tomato juice with vodka, so he's on his own!

I've also never tried Clamato, so maybe I'd have to try that first.

Annie

jim, try it with an open mind...and a hangover!

I like mine extra spicy with lots of rocks.

Come on up to Canada, I'll treat you to breakfast of Canadian peameal bacon and a spicy Caesar! ...you'll be safe across the border.

"Come on up to Canada, I'll treat you to breakfast of Canadian peameal bacon and a spicy Caesar!"

Hey! That's the best offer I've had in who knows how long.

I have a valid passport and four good new year tires. I'm ready to travel!

Jim

Yep Bloody Marys are fine in Maine ;-)

There's a drink that uses a splash of beef boullion too, not a lot of places make them, but I think it was called a Bull Shot or something to that effect.....

A