yes motherlode, i look at estrangement as a kind of addiction. i realize each case is unique and some forms of estrangment are probably neccessary for those who have sadly been abused. but in many cases, including my own, there are adult children who are estranging their elder parents only because they need someone to blame. the operative word here is "need". if you try to take away their rationalizations you will encounter great resistence. that is why many of us become confused because; we don't understand why wouldn't they want reconsilation/healing/closure as badly as we do. the reason being it's not a conscious choice for them. their need to have someone to point to and blame is so entrenched in their psyche that it becomes very difficult for them to relinquish it. it allows them to maintain their self image that they're "perfect" or "i am good". it's easier for them to convince themselves if you have someone that they can say is bad or evil. that is why you get alot of demonization and judgement from these kids (adult children). it's only out of some kind of profound insecurity that these adult children blame their parents and estrange them. now if you are going to do intervention and attempt a dialogue with one who estranges then it's important to realize that the person you're dealing with is addicted to blame. and just like any other form of addiction (ie. alchohol,drug,creditcards,infidelity, etc.) there is a denialism that is associated with it that is very difficult to penetrate. that's is why it's so difficult just to get to first base because to give in and admit anything would fracture the foundation of all their displaced anger and instead of directing it at thier parents they would have to learn how to take responsibility for their own failures. parents are just easy targets and appear more than willing, because of guilt, to assume responsibility for their adult children. if they are at fault for anything it is for enabling their children. so that's why i cautioned brozino to go slow. there's nothing rational about this process. what complicates it even further is the fact that all of us to some degree or another have these same issues present in our own lives, it's just that we somehow have not allowed these feelings to take over our minds and estrange others. that's why a qualified family mediator is essential to help facilitate civil and constructive dialogue. one can't think that they can "fix it" by themselves. if brozino can just get his brother to agree to talk again or possibly with his minister that would be a great accomplishment. it's tough to do but if he can then there's hope for the rest of us.

Time to go. You've got your crust, "charissa". psg films should fire your hopeless visage. I hope everything you do meets with failure. You are porcine.

Not sure about the mental illness, but it's a great possibility. I have a BIL and SIL who are bipolar. One worse than the other. Another SIL is a recovering drug addict and alcoholic. She did things like your daughter does. She also had abortions and is divorced. I asked two woman once who had had abortion how they felt. If it was painful. They both said physically it was okay. Emotionally it was hell. Maybe your daughter feels like she doesn't deserve to be alive after having so many abortions and losing so many children. Maybe she's trying to destroy herself because of the emotional pain she is suffering because of her choices and then, when she's sober looks for hope, and then gets down again. Up and down! Up and down! Not getting into a long story but one that relates very well with your granddaughter's life. She should be in counselling NOW. My brother and his wife are raising their son's 2 sons because the mother is a drug addict who has caused so much emotional damage to the eldest since he was 4 (now 8). He had a counsellor from Children's Aid come over to the house and she did some "play counselling". It really helped him. He'd do well until the mother would call and say all kinds of stuff to him to turn him against my brother and SIL. They have now decided to cut all ties with her for the kids' sake and resume counselling. It was destroying them. They are dealing with the courts right now. It's not good for your granddaughter to be subjected to her mother's emotional outbursts and all the stuff that's going on. It will only destroy her too, so PLEASE get her into counselling now! Don't mean to sound unfeeling or whatever, but I don't think there's anything you can do now to help your daughter because she NEEDS to want to help herself. BUT.. what you CAN do is make sure your granddaughter doesn't suffer emotional damage because of her mother's actions. She needs to know and understand WHY her mother does the things that she does, and only a qualified professional knows just how much info a little mind can take at a time so as to not overwhelm them too much and cause more damage. Just my opinion. I wish you luck and strength as you go through this with your family. P.S. A friend of mine had a schizophrenic mother who did all kinds of things to her. My friend was 9 years old when she ran away, collecting pop bottles to get something to eat. After 3 days on the street, she'd go to the police. "They" would get the mother back on her meds, then my friend would go back (and her brother). Only this would happen over and over again. She ended up in a total of 40 foster homes. At 16, she was on her own. ONE foster mother gave my friend (aged 15)several books about schizophrenia and told her to read them all so that she could understand WHY her mother did the things that she did. It wasn't because she didn't love her. It was because she was mentally ill. My friend said that reading those books changed her whole world. She didn't hate her mother anymore. On her wedding day, she saw her brother for the first time in a very long time. My friend invited her mother to the wedding. When her brother asked her how she could invite her and still love her after everything that she did to them, my friend told her brother that it's called forgiving and understanding and she'd talk to him about it when he grows up! I have to say that my friend turned out very well. Never did drugs or hit the booze to numb the emotional pain of her childhood. It actually made her stronger. The brother, however, today, is bipolar and smokes drugs! The mother is now deceased, but my friend took care of her by arranging proper care when she was too sick to care for herself. She would also go pick her up to spend Christmas day with her husband and kids. By educating herself about why her mother did the things that she did, she didn't grow up with resentment, hatred, low self-esteem, feeling unloved, etc. She grew up knowing that her mother loved her in her own special way, the only way she could, and was mentally ill, and had "outbursts" when she was not on her meds, etc. Your granddaugther needs to know the same about her mother!

What are they thinking putting these shows on the air anyway? Ratings and that is all they care about, It is the same everywhere, not much different from when we were kids, EXCEPT most of us were taught morals, manners and respect for EVERYONE. Kids today learn from what they see and I am afraid it won't get better, just worse. If anyone likes home reno shows and had ever watched Love it or List it you can see one very good example. Those people are plain nasty and outright ignorant. Who died and made them royalty? I loved to see just what could be done with some of the homes but I can not even stand to see the start of the show come on anymore..the homeowners don't appreciate what is being done they have to act like ...don't get me started ..it would be embarrassing to even have a next door neighbor like that. I realize it is only a reality show..as are most that are on now because that is what makes the ratings. All the talk about this child, that is fat as stated by some posters is just sad. That child (if they are her parents) didn't or should I say doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell-o of being any different than she is. Hopefully someone will step into her life and steer her in the right direction. But there is a chance of someone in your own families that may come along and be "fat" either from a medical condition or the bad choices that their parents make when raising him or her. What do we do? Reject all these kids and ridicule them, what a boost to their self esteem, because of course we are perfect to begin with? I think not, mirrors show the outsides not what you are inside and we all have faults. To anyone that has never had to deal with a weight problem they will never know what nasty comments and and jeers can do to a person. Then again, start watching all the bullying that has lead to teen suicides all it took was a comment. One that made them feel so bad about themselves that they didn't know how to cope at that young age so the problems kept getting bigger and bigger with the bullies taunting and name calling ...only to escalate to higher degrees of torture. Name calling is just what I did in my post by calling those people nasty and ignorant. In my opinion they were degrading to others but in Honey Boo's case she just doesn't know any better, in social skills nor in her actions and being the youngest in the family probably didn't help matters any.