Annibel,

I also don't get it and can't believe, in my case, it has been 3 years. The only way I have to contact my son is via email, but his girlfriend screens all the email and our son only hears about what she chooses to tell him. She responds with cruel replies and only shows him our responses when we defend ourselves. SHe seems to purposely say things to upset us. My husband and i have apologized on numerous occasions for any wrong doing we have been accused of, but it doesn't seem to matter. We don't even know what we did that was so awful as to deserve having all the years we were loving, caring parents just thrown away. It appears our only son loved us until he no longer needed us financially and after that point his girlfriend and her father are the only people allowed in their lives. No matter what we do, it is always criticized and my husband and I are looked at as evil. We attempted to give him his belongings, he called the police on us and accused us of stalking. We made arrangements with the girlfriend to get him his belongings a second time. We followed her instructions to a tee and were told in doing so we would be demonstrating good faith. Instead, after dropping off the things at the girlfriend's father's house as instructed, we were told we left them 6 houses down the street at the wrong house! We were also told that we were lucky that our son got his stuff because her father had to chase a thief who was trying to steal the stuff down the street. We knew the correct house and can not even imagine her father chasing a thief down the street. Based on the way he is, he would have called the police before chasing a thief and putting himself in danger. THe GF's father likes them not talking to us and seems to encourage it and rub our nose in it. He has no son and has taken our son as his own.

I can't believe our son can not see how he is being controlled by the two of them. He saw it before, but once she gave him the ultimatum, your family or me and my dad, our son choose her. That really, really hurts. We get no credit for all the good things about our son. The GF and her father frequently say what a good guy our son is and it is amazing how he turned out so good in spite of having such terrible parents.

Annibel, I wish I had a younger son to focus on. I had only one child and am now 46---too old to have any more. I will never be invited to a wedding or see my grandkids. I cry everyday! The future I dreamed of is now gone forever! If our son can't see how he is controlled now, how /when will he ever see it! Actually, I know he sees it as when they first meet about 6-7 years ago, he told me all the things he didn't like about her. I guess like and love/lust are two different things. The thing that scares me most is that our son was taught to be loyal. My husband and I have been married 20+ years through good and bad. I worry that he will stay with this selfish cruel controlling person in spite of his unhappiness out of loyalty. He seems to like/need/want her to control him. Behind her back he used to complain about her, I guess she knew this and wanted to isolate him to get better control. Now if we make contact we are stalkers not loving parents! Isn't that insane? I never heard of stalking your own child. We just want to talk with him and have him say he is happy and alright. We would also like to know specifically what caused him to disown us as we have never been given a legitimate reason. She has convinced him that we were bad parents his entire life and brings up dumb things like, I didn't breast feed, he didn't go to a private high school.

I am not leaving any money to my sons either, I don't reward bad/abusive behavior or neglect. At first I planned to by pass them and leave it to my grand children. But they grew to be just like their parents. So I don't see or hear from them unless they want money. My money goes to a college scholarship fund.

To those of you leaving money for minor grandchildren: When I tried that at the bank I was told I needed an attorney to appoint a financial guardian for the children or the parents could drain the account for the needs of the children.

Home care: I hope you save a lot of money because it costs far more than a care home.

"But they grew to be just like their parents."

I've left 1/2 my money to my grandchildren to be held in trust by a "financial guardian." However, I have worried that as the grands grow they will turn out to be like their parents. Should I survive until I can approach them when they turn 18 and they reject me, I hope I have enough of my wits left to change my will and leave all my money to my son.

penbyrd, it's so hard to hear your anguish after 3 years. I think as loving parents, who all had very close relationships with our children, that one can't just let go of it. It isn't like a job your quit because you don't like it, or becasue they fired you. I don't care how much you loved your job, you get over it.

I think our sons were taken in by sex. I know this is how my dil got my son since he was inexperienced (never had a serious girlfriend,) naive and immature.

Your loyalty dilemma is also an issue for us. My son is also fiercely loyal since as you stated about your marriage, we have stuck it out through good and bad. We have now been married 32 years (next month) and we intend to stay this way. However, our loyalty to each other never meant that we'd give up our families as these girls insist they do. I could never have convinced my husband to do such a thing, and I never even so much as thought of it.

The loyalty thing is worrisome, and I too worry that my son will stick with this girl to his own detriment. He is so hypnotized by her, so enthralled, so completely subservient.

They went to Italy for two weeks (just got back,) and my son couldn't even tell me where they were going to be in case of an emergency! What outrageous thing could she have said to convince him that we were dangerous to give that information to? Where is his spine, and outrage at such a demand from his wife?

I truly don't know him anymore, and I'm afraid I will never know him again.

At 46 penybyrd, your certainly not too old to adopt, have you considered that? I wish I would have done it then, but now I'm 51.

Your story sounds so much like mine, and so much like so many others I've communicated with. It does feel like we have been used, like we are victims of a crime. My son seemed loving and close to us until he started dating this girl at age 23, but it seems once he found her then we became less and less important. I do believe this was her, and her subtle brainwashing.

How does your husband handle it, does he get angry or impatient about your still being upset? Is he upset, but hides it better?

Our youngest son is truly a huge blessing for far more then the usual reasons. Still, the fear of him doing something to us like his brother did is deep down inside me. Afterall, I could never have seen my oldest son doing this to us in a million years. In fact, had I never even heard of such behavior between kids and their parents before now.

My younger son has always been more reasonable though. No matter how angry he would get, he will drop it a minute afterwards and be completely loving and friendly. My oldest always held a bit of a grudge, but now, it is has grown to monumental proportions.

anniebal

Anniebal,

My husband does handle the situation differently. He is also sad, but seems to be able to move on and not let this situation control his life. He is often frustrated with me as this situation has consumed my life. I am suffering from severe depression. I feel so betrayed by our son. My husband lives with it by blaming the girl, but I blame our son. I believe he is the one who has betrayed us. He could have chosen to keep in touch with us. We were good parents and do not deserve to be treated so cruely because he is afraid of his GF. My husband says guys will do anything to make a girl happy, but I can't understand how a girl could possibly make a man choose between her and his family. I thought family was forever. We were always there for him. We did not desert him because he did or said something we didn't like. The worst thing is we really don't know why he won't speak/see/or have anything to do with us other than her saying he is "terrified" of us. I can not think of a thing we would have done to make him "terrified" of us. He won't tell us and she just makes rude, vague comments. We are kind, loving, giving people who gave him (and her) much.

I am not sure if I am up to adopting as at the monent I am not sure what I have left to give after all the pain.

I have a brother who has 2 children and 3 grandchildren--- he is not nice to them and was never there to support them as children. He is selfish, spent the majority of his adult life in prison yet his children talk to him and visit him. Makes no sense to me----considering all that my husband and I did for our son---I try to say to myself well at least we gave our son a good start at life and that was our purpose as parents. My brother's kids and grandkids get/got nothing from him--not even his time, love or attention! I am just baffled and wonder if we did our son a disservice by being loving and caring. At times I even feel like I wasted my entire adult life! The dreams of having an adult son, possible DIL and grandchildren is now lost and I am really have a difficult time dealing with it! I go to counseling, but no counselor in the world can help me me sense of this situation. Our once loving son also does speak to his 84 year old grandmother or any his friends/acquaintences from his past. No reason given!

Penbyrd, my heart goes out to you, as I feel your immense pain too. It's good for me to hear that your husband is dealing with it the way he is. I think for the most part men handle this entire situation way better then the mom does. It makes sense since they handle most emotions different. Men get angry, and mine is able to 'compartmentalize' as he calls it. My hubby keeps telling me that this isn't my fault, so that indicates to me that that is why he thinks I should be able to move on. I told him it doesn't matter if it's my fault or not, I am still living with the consequences of our sons coldhearted decision.

Reading your post I have to say, is like remembering things I have thought or wondered about. When you say wonder if you gave your son too much love and support, I can so relate. I've often thought to myself that I may as well have physically abused my son since the end result is the same. Does this make sense? What sense does it make that your brother has absolutely no issues with his kids?!! It's kind of like the battered wife syndrome I think. A woman mistreated by her husband tends to stay with him and endure the physical pain and abuse at her own peril. It's like they crave the negative attention, or they strive harder to be recognized. Perhaps kids who are neglected with love and attention, actually try harder with their parents to win the love they feel they don't really have. The kids think if they only try harder that their dad will realize how much he loves them and finally be open with his feelings. Don't you think this is part of the problem?

With our boys, they certainly didn't lack in the love and support department, so I see my sons behavior as sort of showing me or us that he doesn't need us. Maybe our closeness actually threatened him in some odd way, or at least in his irrational thinking. Maybe he thought that since we were so close that we wouldn't accept his independance or try to cling on too tightly once he was married? We didn't cling on too tightly to him in college, so you'd think that he would already know that we accepted his independance.

My son also seems to have a real chip on his shoulder over his dad. He seems to believe that he is being evaluated by my husband (which he has never done!!!) My husband was/is a great dad, and although he isn't perfect and has made his mistakes, he has also apologized openly to our boys when he has. Still, my son always wants to bring up something that he feels offended him that my husband stated. For instance, in February we attended a party for my bil, and my sister invited my son and dil to it. I was furious, but that's another story. Other then greeting our son & dil when they came in, they basically kept out of our reach regarding conversation the entire evening. However, there was one point where my brother asked my son about his upcoming trip to europe. My son briefly detailed their plans, and when he stated they were renting a car there my husband made a comment. We had heard from our younger son that they were planning on renting a car there, and it is quite dangerous to drive especially as a tourist. My husband new several people who had also vacationed there and asked them their opinion of driving the trip. Both people stated to avoid driving, especially in the big city. They both said that they don't need to have a car in the city, and it is quite treacherous to drive. Anyway, my hubby's comment was what his friends had told him regarding driving on his trip. Now the other day when my son calls my husband to complain about something(it has only been very recently that my son has allowed us to open the lines of communication with him,) my son starts telling my husband how he basically overstepped his bounds in giving him the advice about driving. He read my husband the riot act telling him that he made him feel unqualified to plan the trip, and that my hubby had to take the excitement away from going there with his driving comment! I couldn't believe my ears, and yet it is so typical of his thinking since he met this girl.

My take on it is that this girl so belittles and berates him that his self confidance and esteem our practically nothing. My son see's my husbands comments as an affront to his ego. I think my son needs our praise and support more then ever since his wife doesn't give it to him. She has always boasted a superior attitude, and likes to believe she is so special. I know she makes my son feel less intelligent then she is.

So it's your dil who has told you that your son is terrified of you? If he is, it sounds like a brain washing technique to me. Why suddenly would your son be afraid of you? Of course, if you dil has managed to convince him that things you did as a family were wrong, and taht you guys were controlling him like a lap dog, then you could see his opinion change.

But my major hang up with these excuses are that if we did do something that hurt our son in any way, how can we resolve the issue if we don't even communicate?

This estrangement thing is just like one woman puts it, and that is a cold hearted cowardly move. They pull a stunt like this and then want to be regarded as adults?

I know you said that your son is an only, but is there anyone else in the family that could possibly have any pull with your son? A close cousin, aunt/uncle, etc? It's remarkable that he has written off his grandmother, as well as his friends and acquaintances from the past. This is a pretty common thing that our kids all seem to do. Why is it that they cuts these people out of their lives? Is it because when or if they see them that it reminds them of how shameful they are behaving? Perhaps as long as they don't see these people they can feel more self righteous in their actions. Seeing us, or other relatives could bring out the guilt that lies deeply in their souls.

I agree that your dil has done a number on your son, just as garden60's has too. I don't know what is with these girls that they are so insecure that they can't allow anyone else in our sons lives because they feel their control will be threatened.

I wanted to remark on you being depressed. I am also very depressed, and have been seeing a counselor since this all began. My husband keeps telling me that it's not helping and that I should get a new therapist! I told him that I have improved since I'm not crying every day anymore, and who is he to judge whether it is helping me or not? Hubby wants me to handle it mentally the way he is and I told him that that is impossible for me to do. I am trying to move on, but I know that it is going to be with me in some way until this estrangement ends.

My son sent me an email today asking if I want to meet for dinner on Wed. night. I was shocked! The only reason this happened, in my mind anyway, is because he was not allowed to attend a recent party for his grandmother's 80th birthday. My sil told him that it is too painful for his mom and dad when he and his wife are included. This made my son so angry that that was when he called to chew out my husband on the phone. Luckily my husband can stay calm almost no matter what, and he kept his complete cool and his patience with my son's anger was impressive.

We'll see if this actually happens, and what type of visit we have. I'm certainly trying not to get over excited about this since I know we are still going to be walking on egg shells. This girl can find fault with anything, no matter how sincere the intent. I feel it's just a matter of time before she comes up with some new reason he shouldn't see us.

anniebal

Well, dil intervened once again to save my son from having to see me for dinner, and that's after he initiated it. How do I know she intervened, because the email he sent me once again was not his writing. I always know when it's his words, and these definitely were not his words. My younger son actually laughed when he read what his brother supposedly wrote. He's like, 'as if he wrote that, it's so obvious that it's her.'

I think I'm ready to surrender. I'm not even sure if this whole thing wasn't cooked up to hurt me because they weren't included to a family gathering (and they blame us since we said we wouldn't go if they wre there.)

anniebal

I think that a lot of retirees vastly underestimate the long term care that they might need as they get older.

A sixty year old could live to be one hundred. If they spend the last ten years of their life incapacitated due to a stroke or alzheimers, long term care is going to be very, very expensive. If they can afford supplemental insurance, that's great. However, it may not cover most of the expenses. I know one case where it fell far short.

I am a firm believer that children should not be raised to expect an inheritance. This gives them an undeserved sense of entitlement, and encourages them to adopt a waiting attitude. So, their mindset changes to the point where their potential is self-limited, and their appreciation is lost.

There are so many bad things that can happen in life - major illness, losses in the stock market, the housing bust, an accident, lawsuits, etc. We should plan for the worst while still hoping for the best.

I think it's better to teach children that they will have to become independent at a certain age. In terms of inheritance, they should know that there are no guarantees in life. This will help them adopt a healthier mindset about family money.

Another important lesson for kids is that actions have consequences. That's why I support leaving nothing to ungrateful children who have turned their backs on their parents. If they do receive an inheritance, it will reinforce their bad behavior. Why? Because even their own parents have let them get away with it.

I agree that I do not know what our financial situation will be why we are older. Perhaps there will be nothing left. If not, I know he will be okay as he is in a good field with a good job and is responsible with money. His gf is a pharmacist and he is a computer engineer so if they marry money should be fine for them.

MY husband and I may have noting to give depending on circumstances. I just don't have the heart to change the will/life insurance at this time. Obviously which ever spouse dies first the other spouse will get what is left, but after that we only have one child. My mother plans to give her estate to my brother and his kids as they have always struggled financially. I think this is unfair to my son, but he is the one that chose to stop all contact with her. The sad things is that this may have been her plan anyway as my brother and his kids are and always have been my mom's favorite. My dad died about 4 yrs ago---he was fair but after he died she changed the will to exclude my son, her eldest grandchild. I often wonder if her cruelty helped make my son angry and estrange us (my husband and I. My husbands parents both died when we first married so our son never knew them and they had no assets or money to give.

At the moment, I am not ready to completely give up so we will keep him in our will. Sounds like denial--but maybe I need that hope, at least for now. If I had another child maybe I'd/We'd feel differently, but we don't.

I can understand the need to hold on to hope in your situation. That's admirable on your part.

Since you are going to leave him in your will (for now), you might consider drafting a letter that would be delivered to him with his inheritance. Let him know how he hurt you and what you feel he has done wrong. Perhaps it would lead to a change in his behavior towards others.

I think that writing it out would be a healthy thing for you. There is so much pent up frustration. You could always decide not to have the letter delivered, but at least you will have it written (and perhaps revised a few times).

The letter might also give you a chance to accept what has happened and let go of any crippling emotions.

athlete2010, I completely agree with what you say regarding the inheritance. We have revised our wills, 2x. The first was a drastic reduction, but we still left some available. The 2nd leaves zero.

I too believe that you get what you deserve, and poor behavior doesn't get rewarded. They maybe bitter about it, but someday they will understand (and if not, oh well.)

It hurt me a great deal to make each change, since one remembers who they used to be. I'm hoping that we'll be able to change it back again someday when he grows up, and quits being selfish, rude, unloving, whiny, and basically treating us like dirt.

Athlete2010, a letter is exactly what my attorney advised and what I have done. It's with my will and will be delivered to my child at the proper time by the attorney handling my estate.

I should add that provisions have been made in case my child develops the strength to get our of her marriage, even after I am no longer in the picture. That will be explained to her in my letter.

I can't help but think that writing an adult son or daughter out of the will is probably the absolute BEST way to prove to them that your idea of a relationship consists of trying to control and punish and otherwise treat them as if they were children. And honestly, isn't that one of the main complaints one hears from an estranged adult child? Not what happened when they were kids, but the fact that in their mind you're still acting that way now?

I'm just askin'...

Still, if that's the "statement": you are determined 6to make to your son/daughter, why cut off your grandchilren too? Is there not family or a trusted attorney you can make arrangements with to set up a trust fund for your grandchildren? Even if there aren't any born yet, you can set things up so that if there are children born later, they could still inherit. Why would you punish them, leaving them rootless because you can't get along with their parent(s)?

Again, just askin'...

Because an inheritance is not a _right_ , it's an extra. Not everyone is in a position to receive an inheritance- some have been abandoned by their parents, some have parents who are poor, some have parents who decided to spend the money they earned on themselves. Everyone should expect to make their own way in life and not depend on an inheritance.
I have what I consider to be a comfortable life-style, none of it from inherited money. DH and I started from scratch and built it up from there. While my mother was alive I tried to get her to spend _her_ money on herself, but she wouldn't. I still haven't inherited from her as (as her executrix) I have not yet proved the will- it's been six years and I'm not in a hurry for a number of reasons.
An inheritance is a gift. It is entirely up to the testator as to who the gift is given. I wouldn't give a gift to someone who was rude and nasty to me and actively ignored me for years on end. Why would I? It would say, "Even though you've been utterly horrible, here's a reward." I would rather that the money I earned be used by a deserving cause who would be grateful- a charity, a scholarship fund, whatever- than to reward someone who would only appreciate it insofar as thinking it their God-given entitlement and rightly so.
As to "punishing" grandchildren and leaving them "rootless" by not having an inheritance from them, neither my DH nor I have received any form of inheritance from any of our grandparents (all deceased) and neither of us has given it a thought, much less felt "punished" or "rootless" beacuse of it.

Most people don't know the Bible says a wise man leaves an inheritance for his grandchildren. True. But then, so many people seem to think an inheritance is only money. (or perhaps whatever property can be sold for money)

I believe that along with money and property, an inheritance consists of the trinkets and treasures one has accumulated over a lifetime. Not just the silverware, but the souvineers of a life.

ALL of my Grandparents were what some on this forum would refer to "low class". One set travelled as migrant farm workers for most of their life. By most people's standards, they had next to nothing when they died, and yet they still managed to leave their children and grandchildren something. My other Grandmother was left a widow with six children during the height of the Depression. She worked in a laundry for years, and later, as a cleaning woman. She too, left something for every member of her family.

How many of you have something, some small thing that belonged to your Grandmother or Great Grandmother? Because my grandparents were frugal (and wonderfully sentimental), I have an iron skillet from each of their mothers -and- their MILs. One from all four of my Great Grandmothers, even though two had died years before I was born, and the other passed away when I was only four. They were kept for me by three different women in the family for over 20 years until I was old enough to appreciate what a treasure they are. Money is nothing. I think about those four women every day when I see their skillets hanging on the wall in the kitchen. That is what I mean by roots; not just giving someone money. That is an inheritance.

Athlete, if your sentence about using money to control others was directed at me for saying that provisions have been made for my child should she decide to get out of her marriage, those funds, in the hands of a trustee, are to pay her legal fees. In no way are they a "carrot on a stick." Currently, she has no access to any money at all except what her husband gives her for groceries, etc. She is not allowed to have a job where she could earn her own money.

Bloobird, my grandchildren will split my daughter's share of my estate, but they will not be able to access their money until they are old enough to not allow their father to get his hands on any of it.

Further, those items that my daughter had indicated, when we were speaking, she would like to inherit from me are going to her. She can do with them what she wants at that point in time.

I simply don't feel right about tying inheritance to a relationship as we only have one child(our estranged son) and no grandchildren yet. Not sure what will be left when we die, but at the moment he is in our will as I haven't had the heart to change it and don't really know how to change it. The letter sounds like a good idea, but my wounds, although almost 3 years old are still too fresh to write such a letter as this hurt has consumed my life/daily thoughts--I am sad/depressed/confused/angry/desperate and the list goes on. At times I think I've lost my mind---never thought our good, happy, well adjusted son would go so astray because of a GF from a screwed up family. The things we have been accused of are the things her family did to her---I read somewhere that she is probably jealous that our son is/was close to his parents and had a normal childhood---she just can't stand that fact---before the estrangement she would cause fights and drama and got angry when we were kind to her. For example, if we bought her a gift or took her on vacation---she wouldn't say thank you, she would complain about everything and get angry and tell us how awful we were. At first our son, just sort of kept quiet not appearing to take sides, but after 4 years she hooked him and he was given the ultimatum---your family or me. He choose her---it really hurts to know the child you gave everything for doesn't even have the guts to stand up for his own parents, old friends, and 84 year old grandmother.

Hi Fuzzywuzzy,

My comments weren't directed at you, and I wasn't thinking about your situation when I wrote them. I was just expressing a personal belief.

Take care.

Athlete

Someone commented: BEST way to prove to them that your idea of a relationship consists of trying to control and punish and otherwise treat them as if they were children. And honestly, isn't that one of the main complaints one hears from an estranged adult child?

Sorry, that just doesn't make sense. By not leaving them an inheritance that is treating them like a child? My sons don't even realize we have a will, so we are in no way trying to use the will and what they may inherit someday as a way to control them. That's the only possible way I feel it could be used as your suggesting. If someone is indeed doing that, then yes they are trying to control their adult child's behavior.

I actually don't hear that we treat them like children as a complaint. What I hear (or we hear most) is that we've done something hurtful to them and no matter how much we apologize for that hurt, it seems to be unforgiveable. Every little thing that they seem to be able to think of is a major hurt in their life, even things that were ridiculous to say the least.

It is simply control on their part to continue to get us to do what they want.

I agree with anniebal.

Life is about choices and we all make choices regarding what we do, the relationships we have, and the gifts we offer.

Some of the adult "kids" that are referred to in these posts are far beyond being controlled by their parents, and it's not because the parents are trying to run their lives. The parents just want to have a relationship with their kids that is not based on money or material things.

Perhaps not leaving them an inheritance is the best "gift" a parent can offer. That's just another way to look at it.

I like to make the observation that these offspring are still ACTING as children so why should they not be TREATED as children?

I completely agree that you do not reward others for bad behavior.

Athlete2010, I so agree with you with what the parents want, and that is " we just want to have a relationship with their kids that is not based on money or material things." So why is that so difficult?

In our case, our son was always loving, thoughtful, sensitive, bull headed, pouty and moody. The big difference between when he was single was that we could still reason with him on 99% of things. He would listen, and take what we had to say into consideration. Our son could still apologize and recognize where he went over the line, but all this disappeared slowly once he met his wife. Now it's basically non-existent. All we hear anymore are the same old rants over the same old hurts, some that were out and out fabricated. Now I say, what about our hurts? I tried many times to get them to move forward and accept all of us for who we are, but it didn't work. Now, he can come to us. I have no intention of ever contacting him again, and I won't recognize him unless he agrees that we are accepting each other for who we all are.

Wanaksink, good point on treating them as children, since that is indeed how they are acting. One wouldn't leave an inheritance to children, they'd have to have a guardian control it. To me an inheritance is like going for ice cream. If we said we would take them for ice cream as long as they behave, and then they acted like complete, ungrateful, spoiled brats, we wouldn't go for that ice cream anymore, since they certainly don't deserve it.

They've made their bed and now they can sleep in it.

anniebal

Fuzzy, I think that if you are leaving cash or property as an inheritance, that is the wisest way to make sure it goes to the right person. I also agree that leaving your daughter those non monentary items she has expressed an interest having in is a good idea. It's not about "rewarding" her for bad behaviour: afterall, it's her family and history too.

To me, it's about acknowledging that she is and always will be your daughter. Whether she cherishes those items (and by extension, your memory), depends on her, but as her Mother, you will be showing her (and your grandchildren) that even if you never could get along, even if you never understood her, you have never stopped loving her. FWIW, I believe *that* is the single most important legacy any parent can leave their family.

"By not leaving them an inheritance that is treating them like a child?"

No, I said that not leaving them an inheritance is the best way to prove to them what they probably suspected all along; your relationship was based on punishing and control, not love and understanding.

"My sons don't even realize we have a will, so we are in no way trying to use the will and what they may inherit someday as a way to control them"
Who are you kidding? These are adults we're talking about. They know you have "stuff", and that you can't take it with you. As many times as you have brought up money and inheriting it to a group of perfect strangers, I have a feeling your sons grew up hearing all about "who gets what" when you're gone, even if you haven't shown them an actual piece of paper.

"I tried many times to get them to move forward and accept all of us for who we are, but it didn't work. Now, he can come to us. I have no intention of ever contacting him again, and I won't recognize him unless he agrees that we are accepting each other for who we all are."
"All of us for who we are"...meaning: yourself, your DH and your other son. Apparently, your own faults are so trivial, you've told us you even apologize for things you don't feel the least bit sorry for. How is that supposed to be meaningful? But what about you and your DH and your DS#2 accepting HIM/THEM? In what way do you show them that?

I guess it doesn't matter really, you've said you have no intention of contacting him again ever, unless he agrees to your terms. (controlling) And you've likened an inheritance to a special treat for someone "as long as they behave" and otherwise act grateful, yet withheld for behaving in a less than pleasing manner. (punishing)

I feel heavy hearted when I read your posts, I really do. I want to believe that you truly want to develop a lasting, genuine relationship with you son. But everything I've read leads me to think that will never, ever happen.

Well, dil intervened once again to save my son from having to see me for dinner, and that's after he initiated it. How do I know she intervened, because the email he sent me once again was not his writing. I always know when it's his words, and these definitely were not his words. My younger son actually laughed when he read what his brother supposedly wrote. He's like, 'as if he wrote that, it's so obvious that it's her.'

Do you keep a printout of all the emails you receive from him/her?

I would save them all in printed form and leave them with your Will. Maybe one day, he will "see the light" when he reads them.

Or have them delivered to his workplace, asking him if this is really how he feels. She can't get her hands on them first if he receives them at work. Do not put your name on the envelope at all so that he will open it at work.

bloobird, you never cease to amuse me with your answers.

We have never talked about our wills, or possessios, or who gets what. What a materialistic world you live, or certainly sound like you do.

I don't need to defend what I said, you misinterpret everything. It isn't difficult to figure out that if I say we all have to agree to accept all of us for who we are, then that is pretty self explanatory. Yes, he does need to agree to our terms, and I don't believe they are negative terms to say the least. However since your so good at finding the negative, I'm sure you will find it.

I have a feeling by reading all the negative posts by bloobird, he/she is one of the son's or daughters who feel they are entitled. Only thing I question is unreasonable expectations from your child at this time in there life? I do know that when I was in my 20's and early 30's I didn't do much with family. But when in my later 30's & 40's I think my mind clicked to realize how important family was, I don't know if I took it for granted they would always be there, or because of selfishness... But I came and stepped up to the plate when they needed help,I moved from florida to California to care for my grandparents. I was there for my grandmothers colostomy, her cancer treatments, and care. I never expected anything for doing this it was out of love and the feelings of family obligation. When things were finally calm and all the illnesses were better I told them I was going to find my own apartment close by so that when they needed me I could come help. And to my surprise my grandmother slapped me in the face and accused me of being a rat and abanddoning ship. I was shocked and deeply hurt by her comment. She was only 73 years old, and forgot that I left my home and gave up my life to come out here to help them. Did she expect me to live with them and never have my own life? IDK, my father never once came out to visit or help, my uncle had his own life and never came. My grandfather was fine I was there to help after he had a 5way bypass, and then another 3 way by pass, but it was time for me to get a life and start over wasn't it? But to make a long story short, I was left nothing, and its fine. I did things out of love.

It just breaks my heart to read the above posts. I quit about half way down. Someone commented about the a son who was weak and a controlling girl friend, that's my younger son. We had the best relationship ever and after 20 years of marriage she finally convinced him that I the cause of all their problems. My estrangement from him happened over those 20 years, it happened slowly and I am glad for that. I saw a side of him that made me dislike my own son. So I didn't have the heartbreak a lot of you have had. I rarely think of my sons. When I see the way my neighbor's son treats her, I realize what I should have had and it makes me sad, but not for long. Only one person can ruin my life and that is me. I have let go. I get up in the morning smiling and happy. My biggest problem is deciding where to go to lunch. It's their loss.

I'm hoping I can get some insight and advice from this very difficult situation.

My parents were divorced 30 years ago. My brother and sister were teenagers and old enough to legally decide which parent they wanted to live with. They chose our mother. I wasn't old enough to decide so had to stay with my mother. Even after the divorce and my father moving out the fighting and craziness didn't stop, I actually think it got worse. It was a very bad divorce with lots of side choosing, getting us kids stuck in the middle, etc.

After my father moved out he called a couple of times to talk to us kids, my sister and brother never wanted to talk to him and never called him. Honestly I think it was just because they were teenagers and confused. My father was very hurt from the divorce and I don't think did enough to keep them in his life. He had the attitude of,"If you won't talk to me, I won't talk to you." Regardless, I was the only one who maintained a relationship with him. Since the household was still very negative and toxic I decided at the age of 12 to move in with my father. We had to go through a very traumatic and painful custody battle in court.

After I moved in with my dad my mother, sister and brother stopped talking to me for six years. After much trying and a huge struggle to get them back in my life I managed to do so. They are still the most negative people I have ever met and very selfish. But I am the only one who has managed to keep them all in my life to some degree. My brother, sister and father never talked to each other again...for 30 years.

Living with my father was no piece of cake either and we had many ups and downs throughout the years, but still always stuck by each others side. Later in life he became ill and I still was there for him. He recently passed away.

All that being said, he left everything he owned soley to me and made that very clear with hand written notes and in his will. I'm not necessarily saying that was right but that was his wish. I think he felt slighted by my siblings and so he felt it was his right to slight them. Only 3 days after his death my sister and brother started talking about the will, I was still grieving and realize since they didn't know him for 30 years they had no emotional bond or attachment. I was still making funeral arrangements, etc. and I thought it was not the right time to discuss the will. They are going to the funeral and now seem to be involving themselves out of the blue, telling me how I should do things etc. My mother thinks I should sell his house and split all his assets and money 3 ways with them, despite what my fathers wishes were and what it says in the will. She says they are still his children and it's not right that he left everything to me even if they have been estranged for 30 years. He also has 3 grandchildren from my sister and brother who he has never met. Everyone seems to think he should have included them in his will also.

I honestly don't care about the money,etc. But never had a good relationship with my mother, sister and brother and want to follow my fathers wishes.I love him, miss him and was pretty much all he had. I know they can't change what it says in the will but now I'm faced with tremendous guilt. When I have control over his estate should I feel obligated to give my siblings some of the money even if he didn't want me to, in order to keep the peace ? Is that taking the high road or being taken advantage of?

Sorry about the long winded story but I felt I had to explain certain things. Does anyone have any advice or suggestions. They would be so appreciated.

Thank you!

sandemonium,

"All that being said, he left everything he owned soley to me and made that very clear with hand written notes and in his will. I'm not necessarily saying that was right but that was his wish. I think he felt slighted by my siblings and so he felt it was his right to slight them."

As you previously said...your father was very HURT by the divorce, so I'm certain his reaction to his own children was due to his feeling wounded and slighted by their behaviors towards him. I would drop the right or wrong from the equation here as we are talking about feelings and emotions. It is very sad that his emotional reaction was childish as well, given that he was the adult, but that problem stems from his own upbringing as well.

It is also very sad that he didn't seek professional help and that the outcome ended as it has. I have to wonder about the role your mother had in all of this, and from what it sounds she is still trying to influence you as well, or is it more than she is trying to manipulate you and an outcome that she prefers. As far as I'm concerned, she should keep quiet and keep her damned nose out of it, other than to instruct her children (your siblings) to act in a more respectful way towards you and it certainly is not their place to be involving themselves out of the blue and telling you how you should do things, especially given the absence and emotional unavailability to you before his death. They sound very, very selfish and insensitive and sadly I doubt you giving them money will change their behaviors.

I think they just feel entitled to the money. It will not change your situation.

"I honestly don't care about the money,etc. But never had a good relationship with my mother, sister and brother and want to follow my fathers wishes.

This isn't about whether you care about the money or not. Here's the thing you state YOU NEVER HAD A GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR MOTHER, SISTER AND BROTHER AND GIVING THEM MONEY WILL NOT CHANGE THAT. IT WILL NOT CHANGE YOUR SITUATION.

You have nothing to feel guilty about, especially if you are observing your father's wishes. Your mother is trying to control and influence you, rather than behaving in a respectful, loving way. It is sad that she couldn't manage to move forward from the divorce and establish a better relationship with you and encourage your siblings to do the same. She is part of this ugly dynamic too. If she didn't have a good relationship with you then why? The mere fact that you lived with your father is no good reason for her not to have been there for you! There sounds like there is more to this story.

I would say respect your father's wishes and his will. Hold on to the money and invest it and don't throw it away. I would also encourage you to see a counselor or therapist as this will help you to deal with some of your own emotions PRIVATELY and it may help you to sort out this whole ugly mess. Your other family members don't need to know and you can take as much time as you need to--to sort this out.

I'm providing a link below which deals with family estrangements. I'm sorry for the loss of your father. I also want to express that I sincerely wish you god luck with this can of worms...My heart goes out to you.

Here is a link that might be useful: E-stranged/Grieving

This sounds like the type of stuff my parents tell themselves and the relatives to defend their own behavior and lack of relationship.

This is absolutely not the situation for me however, I grew tired of my parents ridiculous beliefs about my husband, spreading lies to the entire family to the point I could not function normally.

They pretend it is my spouse who is verbally abusive and controlling when it is the exact opposite. He is easy going, understanding and open to me making my own choices. My parents are mentally abusive and controlling. Accusing others of your exact behavior is called Projection.

They attempted to ruin the relationship with my spouse and ruined our relationship instead. Being angry and rude to him was much more important that our relationship apparently, and more important than their grandchildren.

When it became clear that even with grandchildren, they would continue to act as if something was wrong with my husband and I...they lost their relationship with their grandchildren as well.

In the case of my parents, it is a sense of entitlement. They are entitled to respect no matter how they treat me. I am to bow down and do their bidding or suffer the consequences, including withholding my inheritance that my grandmother passed on to me. I overlooked that, but they just kept going. It wasn't about the money, but the constant insulting of my husband that sent me over the edge. But they did attempt to control me with money, and they are still stealing my inheritance from my grandmother, which is most likely illegal, but I am too nice to pursue it. I should tell the entire family what they did, but again too nice to pursue it.

As a parent, if this happens to me someday, I would take full responsibility. I'm the parent. I must have done something!

First, I would be open to the idea I might have some responsibility. I would ask what was wrong, I would LISTEN, and I would apologize and do anything in my power to fix it.

In 8 years my parents have never asked what was wrong because they know what is wrong, I told them. They said no it's not true !DENIAL! The relationship was harming my health, seriously harming my health, and I explained that I needed support and that I was more important than their hate for my husband. I told them.

Now, I am sure they tell everyone they have no idea what my problem is, they did everything for me, I'm so entitled...just like the parents on this board.

I am suggesting you all be honest with yourselves. You probably DO know what's wrong, you just don't want to face it, you don't want to deal with it, and you don't want to change.

You're doing it again, needhelp. Why can you not acknowledge and accept that your situation is not necessarily the only way relationships can go wrong and that perhaps there are children as nasty to their parents as your parents are to you? Perhaps your parents were equally horrible to _their_ parents- would that make your grandparents' hurt all in their imaginations?

It's very simple:

People, including your adult children, gravitate towards pleasure and away from pain.

If your adult children are avoiding you, staying away from you, it is because you are causing them some pain.

If you were a pleasure to be around, they would be around you.

To resolve the problem you have to acknowledge what you are doing that causes them pain and stop doing that.

This is basic psychology, basic human interaction. Make it pleasant for them to be around you and they will be around you.

What is it you think you are buying when you give your adult children money?

Love? You can only get that with affection and through a mutually beneficial relationship. Money will never buy you love.

Loyalty, they will never leave you? Again, you can't get that with money only with affection and a mutually beneficial relationship--and if they have a spouse and children and a job and friends, you WILL NOT be number one in their lives.

Gratitude, appreciation, validation? They will appreciate it and be grateful--but it will be momentary, life goes on. They are not going to dedicate their lives to you in appreciation and sing eternal hosannahs to your great generosity.

Access into their lives? If you bring pleasure into their lives, they will give you access, money or not. If you bring pain into their lives, they will not give you access money or not.

In short, all of these things you might be trying to buy with money you can get without money, simply by being a pleasure in their lives. And none of these things you can buy with money if you bring pain in their lives.

The money you give will make NO difference to you relationship. Your relationship will boil down to one thing: do you bring pleasure and happiness into their lives with your personality, or do you bring pain?

If your child has rejected you it is ALWAYS because they do not find a relationship with you rewarding and pleasant.

For those of you who want to blame a son or daughter in law, or a girlfriend, or an ex. The same thing holds. Your adult child may indeed be unhappily married--but if she/he stays with that person it's because they will be less unhappy in that relationship than in leaving the significant other and resuming a relationship with you. You are still the worse of two evils.

For those who choose to diagnose your child with all these personality disorders and mental illnesses and character flaws rather than look at your own part in the estrangement, I say get realistic. You are not qualified to diagnose anyone--except yourselves, and none of that is going on. You are hurt, frightened, offended, and have had your self worth and self perception judged and found wanting by the rejection of your adult child. You are not objective; You are desperately clutching at excuses so as not to look at yourself. This is denial and defensiveness at it's highest form.

Your children are not weak, they are not mentally ill, they are not influenced by jealous others--they have known you their whole lives and they KNOW who you are, and who you are causes them pain, and they just trying to escape that pain.

People gravitate towards pleasure and away from pain. That's why you are estranged. None of you can say you don't know why: THAT's why.

Money does not make the pain go away. You can't buy your children. You have to build a REAL mutually beneficial relationship based on personality--not based on neediness and money and manipulation and unexpressed expectations.

Some of you have this fantasy that if you leave your money to someone else or a charity or just cut out your unsatisfactory adult child, they will someday 'be sorry'. They will realize how much they hurt you. They will be 'taught a lesson'.

This is all nonsense. It's not going to work out that way. They are not going to 'be sorry', they won't care that they 'hurt' you, and the lesson you will teach them won't be the one you think you're teaching.

Think about some of the high profile cases in the news where the rich and famous make a point of disinheriting their children. Leona Helmsley, Joan Crawford, Marlon Brando, Eugene O'Neill, etc...

Who ends up looking bad in these cases? It's never the kids; it's always the parents who come off as hateful, controlling, unloving, and vindictive. This will be you. This will be how you will be remembered, this will be your legacy.

Hateful, controlling, unloving, and vindictive.

Loving parents do NOT disinherit their children. By disinheriting them you demonstrate for all time that underneath all those words of love and devotion, you were everything your child said you were. Disinheriting your child PROVES you did not love them, no matter what you write in you final letter, will, video, whatever.

The child gets the final say, and their explanation of why you disinherited them will be the one that's remembered. Joan Crawford's legacy of "No more wire hangers" will last longer than her celebrity and her films. She is remembered more for that one night of rage than for all the 70 years of her living. Her defining moment was her hatefulness towards her children.

Think how differently it would have been if she had not disinherited her son and daughter. Her daughter may have still written that book, the 'no more wire hangers' incident still would have happened, Joan Crawford may still have been considered a bad mother. But people would have excused her: she did the best she could, she wasn't perfect, but she tried. In the end, she loved that child.

And the daughter would have looked bad and ungrateful. If that's what you are going for, leave them in the will with lots of expressions of regret and love.

Cut them out and you look hateful, vindictive and judgmental, and people feel sorry for your child.

Also, when your child cut you out of his or her life, your child ALREADY factored in the possibility you would cut them out of your will. Your child has ALREADY decided that dealing with you is NOT WORTH THE MONEY.

People say, "You couldn't pay me to deal with her", and when your child estranges you, your child is saying exactly that. Even your money isn't enough incentive for them to interact with you. In essence your children by estranging you have ALREADY rejected your money. Your leaving them out of the will is anticlimactic. They beat you to the punch.

By estranging you, they are trying to teach you a lesson. Have you learned it? Nope. And they will not learn the lesson you are trying to pound into them either. They will simply say, "Thank god I estranged mom when I did and saved myself 20 years more of her aggravation."

You disinherit your child because you want him/her to know your pain. But disinheritance doesn't say "I'm in pain" it says, "I'm enraged and punitive and critical of you." Your adult child getting that message is not going to see your pain, your adult child is going to see your meanness.

If you leave them their full inheritance and a last message of love and regret, you child is going to think about how can you be generous and loving when things were bad between you for so long? Then they might see your pain and feel guilty and wonder what could have been if they had handled your differences in another way.

While I wouldn't argue the accuracy of your interpretations in some circumstances, they don't apply in all.

Human beings are infinite in their variety and the possibilities on both sides of the equation are legion.

You said it best: You are not qualified to diagnose anyone . . . You are not objective. . .

And no, I do not have estranged children.

Thanks to PenByrd I admire your wisdom and courage.

Im new on that forum, It is dizzying to see all that pain and still live.

To Banana Bread, «Some of you have this fantasy»

I would love to believe you but, yes, the variety of situations make it impossible :

I have a daughter (43) who was my sole heiress till recently. My second husband, her step father, accepted that because when his mother died, he inherited OK and it seemed OK that my only child who has only one decent parent, would inherit from me. And also, on my husband side, there is a very greedy brother and had had quite a bit of control over him, has shown openly that he hates my guts and who would probably end up with my money if my husband died after me.

From that known story, my daughter has always known and believed that I would never think of changing that situation. My husband and my daughter being my only close familyÂ

But, a few years ago, my daughter fell «under the spell» of : a drug addict, penniless, violent, unfaithful, irresponsible in every aspect of life, ex jailbird with a brother an actual jail-bird etc. My tolerance to «the difference» and the «recoverable» has been seriously overstretched. HeÂs openly said that anybody who has more money than he, is fair game or owe to him. We are in that category, even if not by much.

ItÂs not out of a novel, itÂs the unspeakable reality. I did disinherit my daughter last summer.

It is a clear case of your lifetime hard savings going to hell, in smoke, cocaine and booze. My husband (her step father) has been an extremely kind and generous person with me even if he knew the plans. And This goes on at the same time that a «business of my daughter» that she persuaded us to help her with, turns up to work like that, in short : «any amount of investment or expenses she canÂt pay for the project, we pay.» We are seriously crossing our fingers that her project ends up the way it is supposed to because if it doesnÂt IÂm in debts till I die while they are sniffing cocaine and waiting for the profit to come in. My daughter, to whom I paid college tuition, had always been fair and reliable in all until she started couple with this total loser who brought in the family new definitions of freedom and love. After she got that total acces to my bank account, she started calling everything I do «control over her life» and shutting the door on me. She is 43! And, not the least, my daughter started acting terribly ugly toward me snapping aggressively at my every word, every move. Examples would flow for pages, some of them totally laughable or shattering in how unjustified they were.
This money part of the story is the least painful. When the one person you loved most in your life attacks cruelly on all frontsÂ

I was a motherless daughter at 7, never inherited a dime from anybody. IÂm too much of a mother because I tried too hard to be a whole family by myself? That hurts too much to even think of repairing it.

How do I put distance from something unbearable in my head, in my soul, in my hearth?

I have taken my son out of my will and any future children he may have or adopt. I do not have a large estate by any means, but if I leave behind one dollar I do not want it going to him. Not because I do not love him, because I do more than air. I have taken him out of my will because he is not the man I raised him to be. Lying, cheating, and swindling his elderly grandpartents out of money.. No in my opinion he has made choices and now he has to live with them.

Money does not equal love. it never has. It is about the years and years of loyal loving family that he has turned his back on. He has said he does not want to be in our family so I am simply honoring that wish.

Just because you gave birth to or adopted a child that does not give them the freedom to treat you as a personal ATM and like garbage when you say no.

If he does not want my love and friendship I am sure he does not need my money. I certainly do not have any trust in him

I'm new so hope I am doing this right-----I think I am alot older than most of you and have only been estranged from my daughter for a year. It is enough to know that it is not going to get any better and I am taking her out of my will. I have alot of loving places to leave that money, animal shelters, ill children, homeless people, etc. I don't care what kind of message it sends, I will be dead and won't give a darn about what kind of legacy I leave. My message to her by doing this is "Hey babe, you hurt me, you don't care and neither do I. Just because people are related doesn't mean you have to love or even like them if they treat you like a piece of ----!

I'm a firm believer in "it's your money, please yourself as to its disposal". In my mother's late life, I tried to persuade her (unsuccessfully) to use _her_ money to do things she wanted to do, but she felt she had to save it to leave it to my brother and me.
I'm not denying that my inheritance was welcome, but I didn't _need_ it, as an adult I had made my own success and was comfortable, if not wealthy. Brother, on the other hand, has spent his life wasting everything that came through his fingers and I have no doubt the inheritance will go the same way. He never lifted a finger to help Mum while she was alive, actually broke her heart when he stole from her, then accepted tens of thousands of dollars from her (also wasted) and then disappeared for a couple of years with no word. When she died all he was interested in was how much he was going to get and why he should get more than the half he was left, since I was a success and he wasn't.

Hello everyone. I just wanted to tell you all that I have been dealing with estrangement from my son for 8 yrs now. I have never felt so much pain, anger, rejection in my life until all of this came about. For 8 yrs now, I have tried to cope and I have read just about everything I could to find an answer or a true solution to this. I am so happy that I found a forum with people who are going through what I am going through.

I just found this when searching about the will. Same exact situation, Money/Girlfriend. The vile things she and her mother have said and done would shock you to the core. It's been three years now, and I reached out about my will-no reply. I felt bad because my father was an abuser ( who groomed my son to abuse as well), and so was his father who abandoned us before his birth-I divorced him and wanted to leave my son money anyway, so he would know I loved him. His father is dead now of addiction, but never cared about my son. As a abuse survivor with PTSD, I went way overboard, giving him everything and allowing him to disrespect me. Long story. But after a violent assault by a criminal in 2012 I became so ill I found a trauma specialist. PTSD was diagnosed, and I started setting boundaries, and that is when the trouble started. I didn't know what limits were, and I started standing up for myself and saying no more. He had grown more disrespectful once he stopped needing money. Long story. But bottom line, why reward him for this disrespect. He never replied, and I sent him power of attorney, everything, and he is a lawyer. I can always change it if he comes around, but for now, no money for him.

Also wanted to share about these two great Facebook pages: https://www.facebook.com/rejectedparents/ 

https://www.facebook.com/Support-Page-for-Parents-of-Adult-Estranged-Children-217524848284227/

<3

Instead of worrying about whether or not you should disinherit someone, why not take this little pile of money and go have fun with it while you are alive? (Unless choosing who to disinherit brings you pleasure).

If "choosing to disinherit" brought people pleasure, they wouldn't be posting on this thread.

That is not so. There are people with real issues, but there are also drama llamas who love to wring their hands and bemoan their fate.

Thanks to all who have shared on this thread. I too am an estranged mother from an adult son. I used to be the one saying to other estranged parents that they must have done something wrong to deserve it. No child would ever willingly want to cut off good, caring, loving parents. Then, it happened to me and I was in shock and disbelief because I am always the one OTHER people turned to for help with their children. I am a therapist, after all, and I know about interpersonal relationships - right? I spent my whole life teaching others "how to do it correctly and in a healthy way"! How shocking and shameful it was when this happened to me! Not me!! How and why could this happen?!?

The past five years have been grueling to say the least. I do understand the suicide attempts by some and the difficulty moving forward with life. I read everything I can find from children who have cut off parents to try to figure out what I can do to fix it. I read the comments by those on this thread that tell us what we have done wrong. So, I have apologized repeatedly for anything and everything I have done to make my child hurt. I have repeatedly reached out to him as have multiple family members and his best friend and other friends to try to heal the rift. Every time I reach out, there is some new reason he and his wife are hurt. Some of the things they accuse me of are not true. I know they are not true because they are about how I feel - that I don't really care about them or that I don't really love them or I behaved in a certain way because I wanted to disrespect them. I can honestly say that all I want from them or anyone is to have a nice time and to love each other. They misinterpret everything I do. I still apologize but only I know how I really feel and what my true intentions were. They can't tell me that. Still, I apologize. Finally, my husband and adult daughter and other son told me to stop apologizing. They said it was making it worse and not better. They saw my pain and desperation and helplessness and it was destroying them. So, they told me to stop because they could not take the pain. So, I stopped.

With regard to what CJH Design wrote about gravitating toward pleasure and away from pain, I will say this. My parents have not been easy to deal with. They are controlling and focus only on themselves. I am expected to do everything for them and they still complain. No matter how much I do, it has never been good enough and they always expect more. I have tried and tried to make them happy and I have become a major people pleaser and caregiver in my life, sacrificing everything for the wellbeing of others and especially my family. My father is older and my mother has died. I take care of him every day and it is very difficult because of how critical he is. It is not pleasant to be around him most days but I still do it. I don't do it because it is pleasurable. I do it because I love him and that is what love is. It is unselfish and it is giving, even when it is not easy or pleasant. I also remember how many times I did this for my children when they were difficult to deal with and it was not at all pleasant to care for them, give up dreams that I had, deal with the pain of their behaviors, and work full time to support them. I could have left them and gone out for more pleasurable times when I was young like some parents do instead of hanging in there, parenting when it was very difficult and certainly not fun to deal with temper tantrums, snot, sickness, and endless needs. Not fun at all. Parenting is the most difficult job on the planet and it takes a dedication to stick with it and not run from it toward a life of fun and pleasure.

I believe that being unselfish and giving to others is an important value and I try to do it in my life. I also have empathy and compassion for my father because of what he has been through in his life, which I won't go into because it would take all day. I would never dream of cutting him off. My heart hurts too much when I think about the pain it would cause him. I could never do that to him, no matter how he treats me. He does not have to be pleasant all the time for me to be around him, care for him, and stay with him. I think that is what love is really.

Another example: In my work I go into jails to help people in trouble with the law. I hate being locked in when I go to jails because I have a phobia. I get paid very little and the courts are not nice to me. It is definitely not pleasant. I don't do it for the pleasure or money. I do it because I want to try to help and because I believe that doing things that are right is not always easy. People do things for pleasure but I have found that meaning and purpose can come out of things we do that require a willingness to set our own desires aside for someone else or for a greater good.

This is what I have learned from my estrangement from my son:

Karma: I recognize there is a lesson in this for me. What am I being taught by the universe? I have struggled with this long and hard and I think I have learned that I needed too much from my son. I think I relied on him to make me happy because of the difficult relationship with my parents. I need to let him have his own life and make his own decisions. I need to move on and figure out what I need myself and not rely on him so much. I also think I learned that I have been too critical and judgmental of others in my life. I need to try to be more understanding, compassionate, and less focused on who is right and who is wrong.

Money: I gave my son everything he ever needed. I paid for his degree, paid for him to travel all over the world, and paid for several cars, and for anything else he needed ever. He now has a good job and is making far more than I ever did. I had to work several jobs to give him what he needed. He does not need my money now but the rift did seem to be about money as far as I can tell. Here is what I have decided I need to do to find meaning in life: I am going to use the money I earn and have to give to others in the world who don't have anything. I am going to travel with organizations that help others and use my money to help them. I am going to give of myself also, because that is more important than just giving money. I am going to try to improve the things for other people around the world who have far less than any of us. That is going to give me meaning and purpose and is something that I always wanted to do when I was raising my children. My daughter has indicated that she wants to do this with me and she shares in the vision. It gives me so much joy and pride to have her with me on this journey.

I hope that some day my son will come back and have a relationship with me and with his family. His sister and brother are very angry with him and he does have a spouse that encouraged the cut-off from us. I hope that we can heal eventually but I am not sure if he even values his family at this point. What I have learned is that it is his decision and I must let him figure out his own life and not expect him to be there for me. I can accept this now and I am starting to have some peace so I must be on the right track. Life is a struggle and we all need to work to figure out what we are supposed to learn about ourselves. What you all have written in this thread has helped me a lot to continue figure things out myself.

I'm also estranged from my 5 older adult children due to money and their need too control me. Now most holidays I'm home alone except for my 3 Standard Schnauzer's that entertain me and help me laugh once again. Yes I don't see my grandchildren but recently my oldest grandson remembered where I lived and I'm able too see him and communicate through messenger. I know in time all my grandchildren will seek me out as they will start too see through the lies they are being told. I believe my oldest daughter and my oldest son are both narcissistic and only think of themselves, my younger 2 daughters and middle son are simply followers. I do have a good relationship with my youngest son, he's very kind and helpful and goes beyond. The majority of estate will go to my church with a trust fund set up for the youngest son paid out each year on his birthday and also my one of my ex-daughter-inlaws as I consider her my spiritually adopted daughter.