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johnmari_gw

antique door security

johnmari
16 years ago

Anyone know of a double-cylinder (the kind where you need a key on the inside too, which you use when you have a window in the door) deadbolt that would look nice with an Eastlake doorknob and seriously ornate twist doorbell? I picked up a plain one in antique brass (which is what ours will be when we get to stripping the paint off) thinking it would at least be relatively unobtrusive, held it up to the door, and man it looked horrible, so obviously out of place! There's no deadbolt at all currently and I am seriously uncomfortable leaving the security of my house to a skeleton-key lock though.

My very cool front door that the PO messed up with too much sticky paint right over everything: knob, hinges, doorbell...

{{gwi:2005722}}
There's a matching side door in the shed that I'd like to put back in place someday. They're just plain nice heavy doors.

Comments (20)

  • ron6519
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Look at sites like Restoration Hardware or Rejuvenation hardware for something in character with the home. Van Dykes also has locks. Just do a search, you'll find a boat load.
    Ron

  • calliope
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    One can also buy security storm doors, some of them all glass and less likely to detract from your original door. They are rather pricey, and require specifics on the frame and jamb but are designed for people who have glass in their interior doors. I can't tell you how easy it is to break those panes and reach in to the bolt locks. You may as well leave the door unlocked unless you have a security system running.

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  • johnmari
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ron, I've BEEN searching, with every variation of search terms along with "deadbolt" that I can think of. VanDykes (one of the first places I went) doesn't have jack squat that'll go, Resto does not carry entry-door hardware at all (and is kind of a joke IMO), Rejuvenation does not carry separate deadbolts. House of Antique Hardware did not have anything, nor did Charleston Hardware, Signature Hardware, Ball and Ball, etc.

    Calliope, that's the entire reason for using DOUBLE-cylinder deadbolts (I've had glass entry doors before). Those require a key to operate both sides, and only an outright moron IMO would leave the key in the lock. There's a nice spot to put the key that is well out of arm's reach of the window but still easily visible to someone inside in case of emergency, although in case of fire it would be just as easy to go out the adjacent window onto the porch that's only a foot off the floor so even Grannie could manage it. :-) I think those big glass doors are real eyesores, and we have eyesore enough going with the *bleargh* vinyl siding and *sob* vinyl windows.

  • lazypup
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Fire codes prohibit installing double cylinder locks on occupied residential structure doors.

  • calliope
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    When our rural property was burgled a deadbolt or three would not have helped at all. They could have very easily just broke the window and opened the lock, but they smashed the very old, but very sturdy door in.

    They cased the house out and walked past some very obvious valuables (I suspect they were going to return) and took an old television. We had just gotten married and our wedding presents were on the floor, and also Christmas presents.

    I wasn't upset about the television (easily fenced) but was about the door. It was worth twice the value of the television.

    You might consider going to a smithy and having some decorative grills made for mounting to the glass to prevent an arm reaching inside. I used to hold a law enforcement commission....that's why I'm concerned about security issues. You wouldn't believe the horror stories about unlawful entry I've seen or heard.

    You are not going to stop a determined felon, but you make it as hard for him/her as you can so they go somewhere where the pickings are easier. If you must advertise with glass in your entry door and no visible deterrents, I'd have a security alarm on it.

    Good luck, hope you find an appropriate device. I have the same issues now with some older homes I own in town. I opted for the alarms.

  • xantippe
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    We had the same problem--a big window in a beautiful period door, so we ordered a double-cylinder Schlage lock through our locksmith. It wasn't cheap, but it didn't detract from the period door handles, which was worth every penny!

    I've linked to a page that show their different finishes. What's weird is how ugly the locks look on the website--our is really beautiful! I suggest you take a look at the line at a locksmith rather than looking online where the locks look blearghy.

    Also, Schlage is supposed to be extremely durable... much, much better than what you get at the cheapo stores. We really trust and like our locksmith, and he said that these are what he uses on his own house.

    Hope that helps.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Schlage

  • mfrog
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If you remove the lacquer from a brass dead bolt, it will darken down very quickly. I used paint stripper to do this with ours. After a couple of months you don't even notice it any more.

  • sombreuil_mongrel
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm not 100% sure, but I think that mortise entry locks can be fitted with cylinders on both sides. It may require that a trim bezel be used so that neither cylinder is flush with the door. Ugly, IMHO. You might use plastic window film on the inside to make the glass more shatterproof, install a motion detector with outdoor squawker, other devices.
    I'm going to put a Baldwin mortise lock on my front door someday, but it has no glass, other than sidelites. For the back door, I am using an antique lockset I just bought on ebay, a barrel bolt and 1/4" plexiglass over the decorative antique glass. My neighborhood doesn't have a big crime problem yet.
    Casey

  • johnmari
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Lazypup, there doesn't appear to be anything in the state or local codes on the subject, and the locksmiths I asked said "huh?" (The fire department seems quite clueless about codes, since we just had go-rounds with them about whether our new oil tank down cellar needed to be on a slab or not.) There is an adjacent window literally 2 steps to one side that makes an excellent fire exit onto the porch (not the porch roof, the porch itself), and the sill is extremely low. The back doors' locks need to be changed out as well, since although they're modern fiberglass doors they also have large glass windows in them (so wrong for the house it's not funny...), and PO was such a cheap bugger that there is NO way there's shatterproof glass in them. There's a good fire-exit window there too, albeit not quite as convenient as the front one.

    I did find some websites for the window film Casey was talking about a few days ago, I was waiting to hear back from a couple of manufacturers about whether there are any installers in the area before I said anything about it. Depending on how outrageous it is - we just got bent over without so much as a kiss by some major heating-system issues that our home inspector had no excuse for not catching - I might be able to do the four windows that open directly off the porches as well. While applying that to the old glass is less than ideal since IIRC it is not reversible, I would MUCH rather have that than the big glass door or iron bars. While I'm not dissing Calliope's choices and experiences, there were bars on my doors and windows when I lived in Boston and Chicago and I would be unhappy having them again even if I could afford custom ones, could stand the appearance of them and the negative effect on the neighborhood - had I seen houses with big metal bars on the windows while we were househunting, I would have RUN, not walked, away from that neighborhood! Decorative accents or not, bars are bars, and to me as a buyer it would have screamed "this is a high-crime neighborhood" whether or not that was truly the case. (I quizzed the police about crime in different neighborhoods before we even toured any houses for sale.) We had a rather exten$ive alarm system in the last house, installed by the POs, and we ended up turning it off completely because of the constant false alarms even after we had the alarm company out half a dozen times on our nickel, which pretty much turned ME off to the alarm thing even if I could afford the fat wad of cash they cost at this point anyway. I do plan on putting motion sensors on the porch lights when we replace them, although they'll be the regular nice porch lights and not those ugly, glaring zillion-watt interrogation lights to wake up the neighborhood, and set them so that you actually had to come up on the porch to turn them on. People actually *gasp* go for evening walks with their dogs and their baby carriages (and sometimes dogs IN the baby carriages!) on our street when the weather is nice, which would keep setting off the sensor if it's too sensitive. The one out back turns on just from a stray dog, which does not amuse the neighbors in the least because it IS one of those zillion-watt ones. I don't know what a "squawker" is but it sounds like one of those things that I would be really pissed if a neighbor installed. :-)

    Xantippe, do you perchance have a picture of your door with its new lock? Which one do you have, the BA360? I'm fairly certain I've seen that one IRL, I'd be interested in seeing how it looks with your hardware.

    Casey, have you installed the plexi on your door yet? I'm interested in whether you have condensation or not between the plexi and the glass. If the security film turns out not to be feasible, that is probably the next least aesthetically-dreadful option, and at least it's reversible. :-/ Although it would mean that the door wouldn't be operable from outside, the so-called "panic bolt" was also something we were considering - that's the big surface-mount slide bolt installed way down at the bottom of the door that goes into the floor instead of a bracket mounted on the door trim or a hole drilled into it. It would probably be the most economical way to go about it, I suppose.

    I will talk to a few more locksmiths and see if anyone knows anything about existing mortise locks being fitted with cylinders, per Casey's comment. After examining the other keyed mortise locks from other doors (every door in this house was keyed! how odd, especially since the same key opens every lock LOL) I'm not quite sure how that would work but it would be nice if we didn't have to go cutting too many additional holes in the door. Call-out charges are expensive, so I'm trying to do as much advance work on the phone as I can even though I really hate talking on the phone, and then have the locksmith out when I know what I need/want. I did find an old-fashioned-style mortise lockset that has a deadbolt built in it although it wouldn't work with what I have without "major surgery" ;-) on the door, and there isn't a decorative trim ring available for the cylinder part anyway so I might as well just put in a regular deadbolt and save the expense. Old-house restoration is not what you'd call terribly popular in my new town - I was making some calls looking for parts for some of the original interior mortise locks and the general response was "why would you want to fix that old junk? just buy new ones" *sigh* We have such a "just throw it out" society now, it's so sad. I will definitely grant that it would be much easier if I didn't have this pretty hardware that I like so much, then I could just throw in something from Baldwin or Emtek!

    mfrog, color is not the primary issue since I've known the delacquering trick for ages, although being able to avoid the additional step would be convenient, the style is. Although if DH had his way we'd have those big electronic keypad locks on every door! Yikes!

  • sombreuil_mongrel
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi,
    This is the type of lock that I was referring to; it normally takes one outside cylinder, but I think it can be fitted with two.(an additional cylinder inside)
    http://www.singlekeys.com/SK_assets/ebay/baldwin/6320_rh_102_1.jpg
    Casey

    Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:2005721}}

  • johnmari
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yeah, I know that one - unfortunately that's the one that would require "major surgery" (I printed out the templates - I had seen it on another website and asked who the manufacturer was).

  • HomeMaker
    16 years ago

    Fire codes prohibit installing double cylinder locks on occupied residential structure doors.

    Your insurance broker can likely confirm this for you. People here are having to change their locks, subsequent to insurance inspections.

    Love your new house! Congrats.

  • kec01
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    johnmari, emtek makes all sorts of deadbolts. Most of their styles are either single or double keyed.

    Here is a link that might be useful: emtek deadbolts

  • mom2lilenj
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Could you get a flush mount deadbolt then find a nice victorian lock plate to cover it up? You may need to drill a hole for the key to fit in, but you could paint that part to match the lock plate.

    Where is your door bell? In the middle of the door or next to the lock. Could you post a close up picture of the lock and door knob you have now?

  • mfrog
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    my point was that if you have ornate door hardware like we did, if you just take the lacquer off a plain deadbolt, after a couple of months no one will even notice it. I looked for ages for an bronze eastlake deadbolt & couldn't find one, so this was our solution. Good luck!

  • mom2lilenj
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Found a manufacturer that makes double cylinder deadbolts in antique designs, thehardwarehut.com. Not sure on the quality.

    Here is a link that might be useful: The hardware hut

  • mom2lilenj
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This one is an egg and dart design double cylinder deadbolt.

    FYI, I googled victorian (or antique) deadbolt double cylinder to find these links.

    Here is a link that might be useful: shop4classics.com

  • charles_von_hamm
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    A fussy, ornate deadbolt on a door like this wouldn't do any good, I think. Old doors like that simply would not have had a deadbolt like that when first installed anyway. I think a simple, low-profile deadbolt is the most reasonable choice. The finish is probably much more important than the design. The ornate original hardware shouldn't have to compete with a fussy new deadbolt.

  • bulldinkie
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have some we got from the fellows that helped restore our home.also alot of glass the deadbolt wont do much.I Had a policeman tell us once he could show numerous ways to get in a door with glass.....MY deadbolt is a piece of brass with key hole on outside with a oval piece of brass with about a 1"brass knob on it in the inside.All you do is turn Right till you hear it lock.

  • jrgrower
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Check your local fire codes for the double cylinder thing, it is usually different in every city. I like to play with picking locks and am fairly good. I have never been able to pick or bump a medco lock though. They aren't cheap but they are tough as all getout.

    Good Luck,
    Jim