Note we are not in a rush to buy, we are cramped but ok in our 3 bedroom house, the kids still like sharing and we have a nice finished basement

Sounds like a wonderful and interesting home, but in my opinion, it wouldn't be right for you for a lot of reasons.

You are bound to have a great deal of maintenance with this house, and if financially it is a stretch but doable, you could be very badly burdened with these expenses. I would guess there will be work needing to be done way beyond what you see--floor refinishing, fireplace repair, painting. You didn't mention exterior paint or roof condition, but they'll be needing work sometime in the future. Older homes often need replacement of electrical and plumbing. It will cost more to heat also.

The front kitchen would really trouble me. You will be trying to fix a meal, wondering what the kids were up to in the back, what little there is of it. Also, I believe kids need a yard whenever possible.

The asbestos and yucky (dusty, moldy?) basement are not healthy conditions for children.

I totally understand your attraction to the house and sympathize with you about living crowded, but my suggestion would be to keep looking. There's a house out there for you, and you can tell us about it without a section called "concerns." Good luck!

Susan

Thanks Susan

A lot of the electrical was updated with the kitchen renovation, there is a separate box with circuit breakers for the kitchen. The rest of the house has these fuse type things but they are a step up from fuses, they twist in when they have to be replaced.

As for the asbestos, when we last looked 12 years ago it was in more than 50% of the houses. It was not a big deal to remove, the seler usually pays for removal and you can stipulate that hte air has to be tested after. At this point a lot of houses have turned over so more houses have had it removed.

The exterior is not showy but its not in need of major painting. I did not check the roof but the stuff in the cabinets in teh middle of the attic are brand new 9just stored there, as I said the attic is awful

Good points about the roof and plumbing, absolutely what I need to know

As for fireplace repair, not really interested in using them as long as they are not leaking or something. Cosmetic s have already been done, the main house is freshly painted. Floor refinishing is not necessary right now, the crpets are brand new and look expensive and are in colors can live with. Plus at most it should be a few thousand which compared to the price of the house is not significant. If we buy I may decide to apply for a line of credit right away for these contingencies

The kitchen does bother me but more because it brings up the possibility that this house could become a white elephant as a future buyer has the same concerns. I always seem to be attracted to the houses that sit for some reason. Even the house we live in now took nearly 6 months to sell during a slow market (most took about 2 months!when we bought

Is the house on MLS? Can we see??

I'm getting the feeling you should probably pass on this house, but there is something to be said for liking houses that sit on the market for long stretches. You have a chance to think about it , visit it often LOL, and make a decision with more thought put into it.

I often wonder in the hot market in my area how a couple who takes 2 months to choose a colour for a $50 gallon of paint can make a decision to buy a $500,000 house after 15 minutes of an open house!!

I have one child and 1300 square feet - I cannot imagine keeping 6200 square feet clean with 5 kids! Do you have help?

Floor refinishing can wait, especially if the carpets are to your liking.

Check out the heating - what will it cost you to replace the ancient boiler when it gives up the ghost on a cold February night with 3 sick kids in the house? (Old boilers seem to know when the worst possible time to die is - LOL)

That is what you will need the line of credit for. Save up for the smaller jobs. Refinishing the floors (probably in the neighbourhood of $8000 for a house that size) is a small thing in a house that size and that age.

Have a home inspection - even before you offer. You may find it's the best $300 or so you have ever spent. If you find out that all that prettiness is hiding $50,000 of work just screaming to be done, you can build that into your offer and maybe luck out on a great house that needs some work, or run screaming wildly in the other direction.

Good luck. Let us know what you decide.

I agree, a home inspection before your offer would be wisest, even though you might "waste" the money after you get the results by not making an offer, in the end. Some sellers resist, though, as they don't really want to know what the home inspection may reveal when there isn't a contract in hand.

With little kids I'd be thinking about the lead paint risk. Moving the kitchen may, or may not, be feasible down the road. It would be awfully surprising if the orginal kitchen was in the front of the home.

Don't knock the fp, even if you don't want to use them as open burning points. They could be converted to wood or pellet (safer for kids) stoves and save a bundle on heat.

Ask to see the heating bills for the last couple of years. Add 25-30% as an estimate for the coming winter.

If the house doesn't emotionally compel you, I would never "settle" for an old house that was too challenging, and not a huge bargain.

It doesn't sound like a quickly flippable house if it turns out to be too much.

A big reno has to be something every adult in the house is keen on, or it can be a real marriage wrecker. Everybody doesn't have to have the same commitment to doing or supervising the work, but both people have to have an equal commitment to the goal.

Whatcha got against cute little white mice (beside that they are the disease reservoirs of Lyme disease)? Whether you know it or not, they are everywhere, and quite likely to be found in most old houses in the NE, especially any one with a stone foundation. You could get a cat, which would take care of the problem.

For a house built c1825 on LI, the size is very unusual except for really important historical structures (you know, Governor's houses, etc.) And 14 foot ceilings are tremendously hard to heat in such a cold climate. Perhaps it was smaller and grew, or isn't as old as that.

You could call the local historical association and see if they know anything about its history.

Good luck!
Molly

Thanks Molly and Homemaker, you both make excellent points, I really did not think of the 14 foot ceilings as hard to heat but I know they would be. Perhaps this was originally a summer house? To be honest I am buying rooms and space, the age of the house is what scares me!

I think their energy bills would be lower because they are just Two active adults who are not home during the day. Once I had kids my energy bills went up because there is always someone home. I was planning to as about heating costs but did not get a chance as the house is just so overwhelming. the owners were there and they empahsize the size but it ends up feeling almost too big.

I love the paint comment, I have been trying to choose one brand for a year! I am really bad about the idea of moving in general and will find things wrong with every house but this one has sparked my interest (happened before).

Why is stone particulaly good for field mice? My 1930s house has a concrete basement made of cinderblocks I think

How does the stone allow them to penetrate? We hav cats but they are more trouble than they are worth and I doubt they really help with mice anyway

The house really is cosmetically in good shape so as far as I can tell there is no reason to EVER engage in a big reno other than bathrooms. I would also want to have the lead paint removed or covered in the attic, any idea on cost and process? and obviously the asbestos and then perhaps seal off hte basement since its a glorified utility room and will never be a play area or even a storage area and make it only accessible for switches and things. My motivation would be obviously to preven a four legged infilitration since I am fairly certain the mice are coming in through the basement since I could see some cracks in the walk out door they had there. Although are they also in the walls already nesting? How do they normally get to the first floor of a house, we have ever only had them in the basement and there is usually some access point that DH forgot to seal up once he does they often go away

I agree that you're likely to have mice regardless of how many crevices you think that you've filled in that basement...LOL. We've just learned to live with ours, although we do try to control them with D-Con, and if by chance one does get to the 1st floor, traps. Fairly good luck, although it seems we do get them every autumn. No big deal. Thing is, you mention them an awful lot and seem very concerned about them. Serious consideration should be given to the fact that they probably are NEVER going to go completely away. I suspect that you're going to have to get used to them and learn to control them or pass on this place if they bother you that much.

As far as those fuses go, our box always had twist in/out fuses. I thought that was pretty standard. We did, however, upgrade to 200 amp sservice and had 2 panels installed in our old place. No more fuses for us! I sleep a lot better at night...LOL

If you're stretching financially just to BUY the place, whatever will you do with the maintenance? Utilities? Sounds like some cold, hard budgeting needs to be looked at. I couldn't afford to heat/cool 6200 sq. ft. of leaky old house, and utility costs are just going up.

That said, if I LOVED the place, I probably would try to find a way to do it--but I have a hubby who spends all his free time just puttering around this place. If we had to pay someone to do all the maintenance he does, we could never afford to live here.

I agree that an inspection even before an offer is a great idea if you're at all serious.

I agree with alot of the other posters. My 1840s farmhouse was (is) a fixer-upper and had asbestos and has a dirt basement floor and has a stone foundation. It has been alot of work. It will be alot of work for years. We moved into this place and we vow now that we will never move out. Not after this amount of sweat equity! When you inhabit one of these grand old beauties, you are a humbled caretaker of a piece of history (or at least that's the way that most of the people in this forum strike me as being). It's not for everyone and if you're looking at this property from a return on investment standpoint, it may not be for you. Anyway, some of your points. You should pour concrete for your basement floor, clean the ducts and remove all asbestos before moving in. My poor wife and 2 year old daughter suffer horribly on occassion from the mold on the basement floor and it's not cheap to get a new one poured. I wish I could have cats! Due to allergies it's not possible, but a good mouser/bat-eater wouldn't need much extra food in my house!

Good luck in whatever you decide!

Friends of mine were in a quandry a couple of years ago. A young couple wanted to buy the 200 year old house next door to them. They wanted to warn them not to, on the other hand their friend who was selling the house had been desperately trying to get out of it for 2 or 3 years. The house looked nice to an untrained eye, maybe just a new roof and some paint, a couple of windows and a new furnace...yeah right.
That young couple has spent so much time and money just trying to keep the house from deteriorating anymore that they haven't been able to "improve" anything.

It's all a question of money in some cases. Lots of cash in the bank is sometimes more important than anything else with some old houses.

When you inhabit one of these grand old beauties, you are a humbled caretaker of a piece of history (or at least that's the way that most of the people in this forum strike me as being). It's not for everyone and if you're looking at this property from a return on investment standpoint, it may not be for you

Thanks so much Beds for teh reality check! While I love the detail work on this house, i am really trying to buy it to solve a problem rather than create 10 more! Sounds like I am being naive and have no clue what I am getting into. I am into focusing on my children and their needs. While I do not want a return to flip the house, because it is at teh top of my price range (50k more and I probably would not have even gone to see it) I would like to know I can get out if I have to and it sounds like I might not be able to.

It really does look so nice and clean and well maintained but I really do not want to be a caretaker, I just want to live in a house and not do much more than whatever I would have to before I moved in, ie the lead paint, asbestos and maybe the basement floor with the 1967 bathrooms re done some time in th future

I guess the question is that will the level of maintance be so much more in an 1840s-1885 wood clad colonial than in a 1930s brick colonial? I guess I naively thought if it was updated (as this one mostly is and well maintained it would be more or less the same amount of work. Sounds like I am being naive. DH is exteremly handy but just does not have time anymore. Is my current house even considered old on the forum?

The mice on the living floors would absolutely not be something I want. My cats are old and not mousers and after they are gone I do not want another since they have a litter box problem. I cannot do traps because of them and the babies since our youngest are under a year

As for the 6200 sq feet, with 5 kids my ideal house would be around 4500 so I know I will be in for a high heating bill but I guess this would just be outrageous

I really appreciate the reality check

Kennebunker, what problems did the young couple face? Just curious

I can't recall everything my friends told me that they knew about. Many of the windows were rotted, and most of the panes were barely held in place, each window had to be replaced, or taken apart and rebuilt. The roof leaked, of course, in many places. The furnace did need replacing, badly.The house was really cold in winter. Water pipes were leaking, as I recall. There was a back section of the house that they were sure was going to have to be torn down, this did have to be done shortly after the new owners had the house inspected. Floors sagged because some of the beams needed to be replaced.
We looked into buying an old house when we were shopping around. Our real estate agent warned us off the ones that were available at the time. She kind of hemmed and hawed and said finally that both of them had been used as summer homes and during the winter a few years before the pipes had burst in both dwellings and flooded them. The result was structural rot. She knew we weren't really into gutting out and starting completely over.
Another interesting thing I learned was how some of these old houses spread fire. Don't get me wrong, I love the old places and would love to live in one again. An old house caught fire one night, it was early an 1800's, can't recall exactly. The way these houses were constructed makes channels within the walls that enables the fire to just swoosh right through them and up the interior walls so that the fire becomes very hard to fight.Firefighters have to tear down the walls just to get at the fire. Luckily the fire department was right across the street and all the tenants were gotten out safely.
I just wanted to add that final note about the fire safty because people often don't even think of such things. Fire prevention and alarms are vital in old homes.
Oh but I do love them so.

Ok, you did it with the fire!

So is a 1900-1950 home any safer?

If the mice are in the basement, then you can pretty much count on the fact that they are in walls, too, from basement to attic. The mice come in every Autumn for warmth. And they will find all sorts of ways to enter the main living space - and believe me, in a house that big and that old, there zillions of places!

The mice come into laid stone walls and foundations because over time, small crevices are opened.

In many old houses I've lived in, from Massachusetts to Virginia, I'v often had milk or black snakes also living in the walls and attics because they find a ready source of prey there: mice!

Litter box problems with one cat does not guarantee litter box problems with other cats. I have six, plus two foster ones, and my mice population is controlled :) And no litter box problem, except that I have a lot of litter boxes to clean!

Molly~

Thanks Molly,

So what you are saying is that if i have ever seen a mouse in my house I probably already have them (although I have never seen a snake but my sister in main line philly has! and even as we speak they are moving in for the winter. We definitely have something in the attic from time to time and droppings in the attached garage but I have only ever seen Two cases of mice in our main living area, both a number of years ago, one came in I believe off the screen porch which I now keep shut and the other through a gap in the area next to the window air conditioner and found a pile of newspapers I was saving under the bed (7 years ago and I still shudder

I am particularly concerned because no matter what we do my 3 year old insists on sleeping on the floor in his room instead of his bed so the thought of mice crawling around at night is more than I can handle whether in a new house or the house I have now. Plus I tend to clutter so the thought of moving a basket or something and finding a mouse behind it, well yuck. We have tons of spiders and that is no biggie to me so I am not a complete wimp, well maybe I am

I also am always looking for droppings and only found it during the screen porch incident (we only use the garage for storage so we rarely walk through it

Hmm better go tape up those Air Conditioning gaps now that I think about it!

Any other tips?

I do appreciate it

If you're seeing no nests, no droppings and no critters, and most importantly, not hearing them in the walls or cupboards, then you probably aren't living with them. Hope that puts your mind at ease.

Yes, do close up those gaps. I found expandable foam to be fairly good, though not impervious, as the little critters often chewed right through it in my house in Virginia.

What did work, was screwing aluminum flashing, and other metal barriers, along with very thorough silicone caulking at the edges of the metal barriers. I was once told by an expert in mouse behavior (biologist, not exterminator) that their relentless push to come in can be interrupted and diverted only if they can't sense tiny air currents which lead them to small holes.

I worked on that mouse problem intensively for a couple of years, and eventually got it under control, but always had to keep things buttoned up. Even propping the garage door open for a few hours would allow them to come back in.

That was the worst mouse problem I have ever encountered and wasn't because of poor housekeeping or an old house, just a tremendously high mouse population in a rural area and a house that was plopped right out in a wildlife preserve. I am exceedingly tolerant of wildlife of all kinds, but that was too much even for me.

I was always fearful of mice running over me when I was sleeping, but it was more anxious fantasy than anything as they are very timid.

Perhaps your old cat is keeping them at bay, more than you realize.
Molly~

We never keep the garage door open for any reason, even if we are in there

I am starting to wonder if my cats are the reason they are not in the living area although when the basement was unfinished they would be down there and that is where the litter box is, DH would trap them and seemed good about closing off their entry points. The only place we ever hear noises was in the garage roof with the broken fascia board now fixed and no more sounds (although its still warm here and in the attic. We hear lots of stuff up there but just leave it alone and give them plenty of notice before we go up! Its a huge storage area and I dread having to go up there to clean it out if we sell this place

Did you ever try those sonar things that you plug in? My fear with those is to suddenly have migrating mice running through my house looking for a quiet spot. They can have the attic and the garage as far as I am concerned

I used to keep food in the garage which is what attracted them in the first place. Not anymore and we try to only eat in the kitchen, so what are they living on?

Thanks again

The sound/sonar things don't work. Never mind how many phony pseudo-scientific statements are on the boxes and the web sites.

At my Virginia house (which was an open plan, and unfurnished for a year so no blocking of the sounds waves) I installed many of them. They made no difference, at all.

The only things that worked were tedious tasks like taking all the baseboard off and installing right angle flashing at the floor/wall intersection. Same thing at those hidden places in the back of closets and cupboards which aren't completely finished. Around every place where water or gas pipes penetrated the walls we installed caulked and screwed down metal doughnuts around them to support wads of silicone caulking and eliminate air flows. Ditto at vent places and washing machine stand pipe; same thing in kitchen cupboards, built-in book shelves and along the brick hearth. In short, we went back and built rodent barriers everywhere. And that did finally stop them from entering the living area. Did nothing about barring them from the walls, or attic, though. I really wasn't sure whether trying to interfere so thoroughly with exterior cladding would be a good idea, for other reasons, plus I didn't want to trap any critters inside in the process.

The only other thing we did was absolutely never leave any enticing food out: not even Christmas cookies for Santa. Those were left in a decorative tin. And everything edible in the kitchen was tinned or jarred as soon as it arrived.

Molly~

Sounds like a process, tired just reading about it

Thanks

Saw a freind today who lives in a 1910 house and her DH used to be a contractor. She was actually very ecxcited to see the house (I was hoping she would talk me down

They are having an open house soon so she offered her DH to check the place out, so I will probably take DH. I told the broker who is a friend of a friend that while I was somewhat interested it really may be too much so while I want to bring DH I do not want to make her come out htinking this was a quick sale. So we may stop by the open house since that way no one is inconvienced and believe me this house is worth seeing

Saphire: IMHO cosmetic things were done on the house, but big ticket items remain. Asbestos is okay as long as it is not friable. Encapsulating is probably safer than removal.

You never mentioned the schools in the area. Would you be sending your kids to private schools regardless of where you live? With as many as five young kids, I would definitely figure in private vs. public school, if public school is an option for you. In my area, middle school tuition is about $16K/yr, high school tuition is $23K/yr, and probably elementary school tuition is about $13K/yr.

This isn't the house for you.

I'm reading all of your words, and it's pretty clear.
This house is a labor of love for someome -- a triumph of heart over head.
For someone, it will be a grand and mercurial love story, full of passion and heartbreak. It will consume them, day and night, and that will be their reward: the high they get from merely owning this and helping it keep on standing for another 170 years.
Trust me on this: when the termite man and the carpenter ant man and the squirrel man and the chimney man and the electric man and the foundation man and the window man and the pipe man and the tub man the other dozen men come into your house and shake their heads and start scratching numbers for so so so so long, and nothing fits and nothing works and everything modern is ugly, SOMETHING has to make it feel worthwhile.
You have to be kind of demented. Like me! My house is older, but much smaller, and I often feel that if I didn't love it so much, it would put me in the psych ward. You have to love doing these things for the house like you love doing things for your husband -- you can't count the cost, or say "that's enough love for you".

From your language, you sound way too sane and practical for this house. You'd quickly resent it, and try to make it over into something it isn't. And that would be a permanent tragedy for this house, and a very expensive setback for you.
Just hold on. Your needs aren't that complicated. You'll find a suitable house eventually, and be much happier for it.
Leave this one for some romantic fool.

Kitchen Obsessed, the school is not important, my kids go to private school but I do pay attention to school districs and this one is excellent should one of my kids not like private school

Growlery

Exactly what I want to hear. I am interested despite the house's age rather than because of it. To be honest it does not look that grand from the outside, as far as I can tell it looks like a regular old house that if it was not larger than average you probably would not notice. From the curb it does not look as big as i is because it is sqaure rather than rectangular. It has nothing to distinguish it, no pillars or anything, in fact my firend did a drive by and had trouble finding the entrance. It looks more turn of the century rather than 1830s but the owners said they were told in 1967 that the house was 135 years old

ITs not hte money so much as the rodents, and the fear that it might be drafty. You have me pegged, on those personality tests I always get practical as at least one of my main traits

It's obvious you have what i call a pig-headed passion for this place.. and I totally understand that since that is what got us our current place.. but be VERY sure that when you move in with kids that the house is going to age VERY quickly and things that do not show now will start popping in the first 6 months. Our place is not at big ( only 4500 sqft) and not as old ( only 100ish) but when we moved in tiwth five kids things rocked and rolled... we knew there were things that we would have to do... but not near as many of them have gotten done due to the things that have come up that we didnot antisipate. PLEASE budget at LEAST a thousand dollars extra per month for un expected repairs then add to that the money for the stuff you want to do. If you budget/savings/ and sanity are still in tact with that number.. go for it.. if not keep looking.. you will find another house that calls to you and it might even have a yard that befits the kids.

Maddiemom

10 years ago we sold our large 90 year old house and started looking for something newer and smaller, with less potential for unexpected expences. We found several that fit that criteria, and each time managed to find some reason for not making an offer. To make a long story a little shorter, we ended up buying a large 120 yr old Victorian in very questionable condition! 15 large crumbeling rooms, 1 (yes, 1!) leaky bathroom (no shower) and a kitchen that defies description! It was in a great location and had "good bones" as they say, but everything else was worn and sagging, or missing. Our sanity was questioned by many, ourselves included, but we were in love with this old lady, and heart triumphed over head, and so we moved in. Our shower became a garden hose rigged up over the basement floordrain, and the meals prepared in the kitchen always had the words take-out in front of them. We became slaves to the old lady, and loved every minute of it! The heating system was an old cast-iron furnace that fed steam to clanking radiators. We had that checked before winter set in, and the furnace man said we should prepare to have it replaced within the next couple of years. His words: "It will be fine until then. They just don't make them like this anymore"...) 2 months later, as we prepared to go out to celebrate new-years eve, it blew up! Steam everywhere at first, and then the cold! Man, was it cold!!! We had a 20 inch snowfall that night, and then 25 below zero temps!
Furnace people were not to be found, partly because of the holiday, and partly because half the people in town had heating problems with that kind of cold.
In spite of pleading from family and friends, we decided to stay in the house, to try and prevent more damage then necessary. (Frozen pipes and such) We moved everything that could be damaged by freezing, (including ourselves and our cat) into the smallest room in the house, and plugged in a couple of electric space heaters, hoping that the electric would take it. It did, and we managed to keep that room at a pretty even 60 degrees. The rest of the house at it's lowest got down to 5 degrees!!
When after several days, we finally were able to start getting furnace people in for estimates, and they saw our predicament, you could almost see dollar signs in their eyes. We got some pretty outrages bids, along with promises that we would be toasty warm by the following day. I think they probably underestimated our tolerance for suffering, or perhaps they overestimated our level of sanity at that point.....
Anyway, we finally got an acceptable bid and soon the radiators were humming again. (not clinking any more!)
We are still finding things we want to do, but for the most part I think we have brought the old lady back to her earlier splendor. And yes, we now have 4 bathrooms! And a great kitchen that is capable of producing gourmet-meals was it not for the cook's shortcomings....
So Saphire, If your head is tuned out by your heart over "your" old lady, go with it. The only requirement, I think, is that both you and your husband are bitten by this bug. Otherwise it could get rocky....

The only requirement, I think, is that both you and your husband are bitten by this bug. Otherwise it could get rocky....

VERY VERY wise words!!!

Maddiemom

We are not up for a project. We really just want to renovate a house, move ina nd live in it not make it a continuing thing for the next 20 years. We would have been buying the house in spite of its age rather than because of it

We did not even go see it again, instead invited friends over for a barbeque who were going to go with us

Thanks for the help

Liora

And I bet you felt a sense of relief as soon as you decided the house wasn't for you?

Hey Just an FYI since the decision has been made --

The comment about the 1800's houses and fires is a generalization that may or may not apply--

Balloon framing that was used for some houses at the time can have the property of spreading fire from the basement to the roof as the wall studs run all the way from basement to roof, but if the stud cavities have been sealed off with fire stops or other materials or the 1800's house is not balloon framed, its not the same issue. It also can be fixed where present.

Again Just an FYI.

SaPHIRE -
What would it cost to add a bedroom onto your current house?

There's a time for love
and there's a time for family
If you love your family then build a nest
Old houses are romantic for two doves
but children need to grow up healthily
So when they've flown or you've just made room
Go back to old houses and love your time

Don't
it looks like a too much,specially if you have young children,we're in a smilar stuation for 7 yrs living in an old home,if you are have about 500,000 to put on it them buy it,only the outside paint in our home cost us $35,000.
the sacrifice we have to do as a family is too much,always is sommething going on with the house,and you have to take family time to organize things related to the house.the tension because the money ,will increase problems in your marriage.stay away from that home please.and if the location isn't the best,please DON"T buy it.
think once is fix nobody will give you $400,000 for a house in a bad area.....no no no ...........Yeah everyone will tell you how big/pretty is your home,but belive me it doesn't do any good/happiness for your family or marriage..........
NO NO NO