It does sound like bad yeast. I use Saf-T, purchased both online at King Arthur and at either Costco or Sam's (cannot recall). I keep some in a Rubbermaid container in the refrigerator, and the greater part in the freezer. Have not had any go bad since I have done it this way. Is there an expiration date on the package? I would contact the vendor and ask for a fresh replacement.

Did you get it very far away? Most stores will take it back in exchange. You've used only a little--just enough to realize that it's not right. It's very possible that it got overheated in transit or something.

OTOH, since it's rising, you could just let it rise longer until it's the correct size. If it just stops rising and won't go all the way, or if it sinks under its own weight, it could also be the amount of protein in the flour and/or the gluten development. Are you using bread flour? Do you let your flour hydrate before you mix up your dough? That can help. Also, giving it a quick fold and turn after about an hour in the rising bowl can help. (I've been learning all these good tricks!)

On the first hand, if you're making the same bread with the same ingredients and it's not behaving the same way with the new yeast, it seems silly to alter your methods to accommodate the yeast rather than getting a new packet of yeast to accommodate your recipes. Perhaps use the old yeast for a couple of months until the restock might come in cooler?

I can't take it back because I did not save the package. I do not remember seeing a date on it, but the package said that it was vacuum sealed and would not start to deteriorate until after it was opened. The vacuum seal was intact when I opened it, and so I put it into two jars to store in the freezer.

I guess there is no salvaging this yeast, and so I will go to Sur La Table in El Segundo tomorrow to buy replacement yeast. This time I will keep the package and proof the yeast right after I buy it.

Lars

I had the same thing happen with a 1# package of SAF Instant Yeast. Lesson learned, now I do a yeast test when I bring a new bag/jar of yeast home before putting it in the freezer.

How to test yeast: In a 1-cup glass measuring cup fill to the 1/4 c. line with warm water. Add 1-1/2 t. yeast and 1 t. sugar. Wait 10-minutes. If the yeast is active it should be up to the 1/2 c. line. [Note: always add yeast to water, not water to yeast.]

-Grainlady

My sister does a decent amount of bread/dough making so buys yeast in bulk (1lb ) from Costco. HUGE difference in cost compared to individual packets from supermarket. Have NO idea the brand but it is VERY lively. She sent me almost half of the last she bought back in maybe Mar-Apr. I put it in a pint mason jar and right into freezer. She had sent me yeast almost a YEAR before most recent stuff arrived. It was in freezer, too, but now in fridge & trying to use it up before dipping into new stash. The "old" will do the typical "double in size" thing in a little over half an hour every time.

Sadly, think you have some dead or dying yeast. Too bad you can't return it.

I have had yeast bought in one pound bags for several years (when Costco and Sam's had them in 2 lb bundles -- the second bag stayed on the shelf a while). I store it on the shelf until opened and then put if into an airtight container and store it in the fridge once opened. After having something similar happen years ago, I try to remember to proof the use out of the bag. Your experience will help remind me next time.

I suspect what happened was the bag was subjected to high heat along the way (in the back of a truck in transit seems quite possible, in a warehouse, etc.). The dormant yeast can take cold, but too much heat can still kill it. Fortunately, the bulk bags are so much less expensive and it doesn't happen very often. The next one should be good to go.

Lars,

You could take your unused yeast in a plain plastic bag and tell the store. They'll probably refund your money anyway. Who tries to scam a store for $6 worth of dead yeast?

The vacuum sealed part isn't the important bit. It's the sitting out in the sun. When they ship it, they probably don't write "caution, live animals" on the carton, like they do with chicks.

OTOH, if you can keep your credit card from piddling all over the floor, any excuse to go to Sur La Table is a fun one. ;)

I just happen to have a $10 coupon to use at Sur la Table (in the most recent catalog in case that will help buy new yeast -- and if you bought it at SLT, they would have it in their system, right? Ours record the sales by purchaser). I was trying to decide whether to stop by while running errands this afternoon. I am now laughing out loud at the idea of my CC piddling all over the floor. That's my toy store too.

I"m not that worried about $6, and the store where I bought it is about seven miles away in Culver City, but Sur La Table is only three miles away in El Segundo. We do not shop much in El Segundo, even though it is so close, and so it will be a good trip for us. There is also a Whole Foods in the same shopping center as Sur La Table. I doubt I will be tempted to buy more than just the yeast at SLT, whereas I am very tempted at Surfas in Culver City.

If they have a ceramic pot for making kimchee, then I will be tempted, however.

Thanks for the responses, and I guess this is definitely a lesson learned!

Lars

We do not shop much in El Segundo, even though it is so close

Well, El Segundo is better known for the second Chevron refinery (hence the name) than as a shopping destination...

It's the pretty things my credit card thumps its hind leg over at SLT and begs for so piteously.

Have a great outing and a lovely day where you don't have to worry about Vitamixes jumping into your arms and demanding houseroom!

I did go to SLT in El Segundo today and bought more yeast, proceeded to proof it, to make sure it was good. I had already thrown out the yeast in the jar that I had used before, but when I tested that yeast, I used 1/2 cup of water, 1 tsp sugar, and only 1/2 tsp yeast. It only made a couple of bubbles on the top after several hours, and I had thought that this was enough to consider it bad.

Next I opened the new yeast and tested it according to GL's instructions, using 1/4 cup tepid (101 degree) water, 1 tsp sugar, and 1-1/2 tsp yeast. Bubbles quickly reached the 3/4 cup mark. Since I had not tested the old yeast with this formula, I got a jar from the freezer that had the other half pound of yeast that I had bought two weeks before, and I tested it the new way. It quickly reached the 1 cup mark - see photo below, and so I guess that jar is okay.

Why would one jar be bad and the other one not? I checked the jar whose contents I had discarded, and I noticed that it had a faint coffee odor, as Kevin had stored coffee in it before, and I had only wiped it out and used the same lid. The other jar in the freezer was clean and with a new lid, and the yeast was fine, and so I am wondering if the tiny residue of coffee could have killed half a pound of yeast.

So I ended up with proofed yeast and didn't want to throw it away and ended up making a batch of bread dough, as I had watched Jacques Pepin make breads this morning and thought I might try his technique. He let his dough rise for an hour and a half, gently deflated it, and then let it rise again overnight in the fridge. I though that this sounded like a good idea, and I wanted to try kneading dough by hand on my new countertop, since it is quartz and food-grade - plus I had just washed it for the photos. First I made the dough in a bowl using a long silicon spoon and then turned it out onto the counter to knead. It was so much easier to knead on my new counter that I was completely amazed. I had intended to make puff pastry on this counter (when it gets cool, which it hasn't yet), and in the past, I had always kneaded dough on a large board that would always slide around. What a different the new counter makes! I may go back to making bread by hand now, although I might still use the bread machine in hot weather - at least until we get central A/C.

The mystery continues...

Lars

Here is a link that might be useful: Will coffee kill bread yeast

Interesting. Drinking coffee is supposed to help kill systemic yeast infections (candida). :) I never would have guess a little residue could kill a jar. This is what I hate so much about the drought. Wiping out jars instead of washing them can wipe out half a pound of yeast! Who knew?

Great news on the function of the counter. I hope you'll report on the bread when it's done.

Jacques pepin makes no knead bread also. Check YouTube and Google. Try it without deflating the dough.

You said that the three breads were experimental so bad yeast may not have been the culprit, as you may have suspected.. Although just adding basil wouldn't seem to hurt. Lengthen the rising time can also help. Suppose it is possible that coffee could affect it but I doubt it. To any significant extent. Maybe a little. I would keep the yeast and add a smudge more than called for. You kept the one jar, right?

So try a long cold fridge rest, retard, with no kneading and a longer second rise. Works for me following abinfive principles.

I think I have solved the mystery. There was one other variable that I had overlooked - two weeks ago I started using a different brand of whole wheat flour - Bob's Red Mill 100% Stone Ground Whole Wheat Flour. The loaf that I kneaded by hand came out just as heavy as the others, and the only difference between this and the loaves I had made months ago was the brand of WW flour. I used a supermarket brand before. I do notice a better flavor with the new brand, but I also noticed a different texture as I was kneading it by hand.

Below is a photo of a 1-3/4 pound loaf baked in a normal metal loaf pan, and you can see how squat it is. I let it rise overnight in the fridge, and then I let it rest 2 hours before shaping it into a loaf, let it rise another 1-1/2 hours, and then baked it for 35 minutes at 380 degrees. The internal temp reached 195 degrees (I was going for 200), which I consider sufficient for it to be done.

The dough rose slowly yesterday and also did not rise all that much overnight. I am okay with the heavy, dense loaf for now (as it tastes good), but I am thinking that I will increase the amount of yeast when I use this flour, much as I do when I use rye flour.

Lars

*Note: the slight orange line across the cut bread is because I had used the knife to slice ripe jalapenos this morning, and they left a red residue on the knife that I forgot to wipe off.

Nice looking loaf. :)

King Arthur whole wheat has 14% protein, which might hold its rise better. You could also try adding a little vital wheat gluten.

This post was edited by plllog on Sun, Sep 7, 14 at 18:32

I already added 1-1/2 Tbsp of VWG for 1-1/2 cups of WW flour. I also used 1-1/2 Tbsp of Semolina flour for part of the white flour, because I like the texture that it adds.

I have used King Arthur whole wheat flour before and got good results with it, but I don't always find it. Right now I am trying to figure out how to make the Bob's Red Mill flour work, and I think that added more yeast will help. I don't really mind the denser bread, but I will be cutting thinner slices. I don't think I will make pizza dough using this flour, unless I use one fourth instead of one half WW.

Because the new loaf is shorter than what I usually make and I will be cutting thinner slices, the sandwiches I will be making for my workday lunches will be smaller. Normally I make a large sandwich and it is enough for two days. I toast the bread before making the sandwich, and it is perfectly fine the next day.

Lars

--If you inadvertently leave the lid off of a jar of yeast for longer than it would take to get in and get out of the jar with the measured yeast, moisture in the air can actually activate the yeast on the surface and it won't be as strong when you use it. So make sure the container has an air-tight lid.

--If you proof the yeast in water/sweetener and dump the water on the yeast, the buffeting it takes from the water can kill some of the yeast. If you vigorously stir the mixture, you can also kill some of the yeast before it's activated in the mixture.

--When using active dry yeast, make sure the water used for proofing the yeast is no cooler than 100-degrees F. Cool water will cause glutathione to leak out of the yeast cells rapidly in the cool water, which will cause your dough strength to be weakened.

--With instant yeast, make sure your dough or flour temperature is at least 75-degrees when adding the yeast. If you store your flour in the freezer, be sure to bring it to room temperature. If your flour is too warm (over 120-degrees F) you will have another problem where the temperature of the flour will kill the yeast.

--Glutathione is also found in wheat germ, and by adding an acid to dough that contains whole wheat flour or additional wheat germ, it will counteract the negative effects of Glutathione. Add 1/8 t. of ascorbic acid (you can find additions of lemon juice or vinegar in recipes, as well), will help prevent the gluten bonds from breaking down and it will also help repair gluten bonds, so you don't end up with whole wheat "bricks". Yeast will work faster and longer in a slightly acidic environment. Since naturally-leavened dough (made with starter) is already acidic, you wouldn't need to add an acid ingredient.

--Add-ins like too much cinnamon, too much sugar, too much salty ingredients (cooked rice, cheese, olives, etc.) can also affect the yeast.

--Too much milk (dairy - including non-fat dry milk) can also affect the yeast in the dough.

So if the yeast test is okay, there are possibly other things in the bread-making process and possible add-ins that can affect the rise.

-Grainlady

Ralphs carries King Arthur. :) I go there for paper goods on the way to Whole Foods. :)

Interesting how such a seamingly normal thing like a new bag of flour can so affect things like tomorrow's lunch!

I've been making a lot of loaves like that while learning how to use whole wheat flour, and specifically the organic red wheat berries that they have in the bulk bin (Arrowhead). It's weak. I have Palouse for my pizza, from a crop that came in at 14% protein, and the difference is astounding. I'm going to call next month to see how this year's crop was, and if it's as strong, I'm probably just going to buy big buckets for baking. So far, I'm saving the "special" wheat for pizza. :)

Wishing your sandwich the best with its new thinner slices,

JC

I am very protective of my yeast, which is why I think I was able to keep the previous pound active for six years. I know the yeast I have has never been exposed to air for more than a few seconds at a time, as I re-close the lid very quickly after measuring what I need. Lately it has been very dry here also, although my barometer reads 60%, which I think is normal.

I keep my flours at room temp (lately that has unfortunately been close to 78-80 degrees) because I use them up within two months, but I do keep rye flour in the freezer because I use it less frequently. I check room temperatures using an infrared thermometer gun.

When I proofed the yeast, the new yeast was proofed in water that was 98 degrees, and the old yeast was proofed in water that was 104 degrees (using a Thermapen instant read thermometer). The extra heat in the second test may have been why the old yeast proofed better. The old yeast had been stored in a vacuum sealed glass jar in the freezer, and so it may have caused a slight decrease in the water temperature when it was added. In all cases, I dissolved the sugar in the water first and then added the yeast. I have never proofed yeast any other way, and I have been doing this since I was nine, although there have been periods when I did not make bread.

I am certain at this point that the Bob's Red Mill flour is the culprit, and I will definitely know when I go back to the King Arthur flour. I might decide to freeze the Bob's flour, if I find KA WW flour while shopping.

I am considering adding a couple of drops of lemon juice to the bread dough now, for my next experiment.

Lars

P.S. Not all Ralphs carry the same flours - of the two that I go to, only one has bread flour, and I only remember seeing King Arthur white flour at the stores I normally go to.

This post was edited by publickman on Sun, Sep 7, 14 at 20:11