I don't have children, but can I offer my point of view anyway?

Here's what I noticed:

BB said he usually asks out a girl that seems to really be enjoying the college social scene.

DS on the other hand, tends to ask out girls who are less into the college party circuit.

The girls that are enjoying the college social scene aren't interested in an education. That's why they're out partying. In other words, they're husband hunting at college.

In the same way, the girls that aren't into the college party circuit are interested in their education and probably are planning on a career rather than dating/marriage/kids.

Make sense? That's why the guys are ending up with the wrong girls.

Also, I suggest that your son date women who are a few years older than he is. Older women know what they want, and more importantly, what they don't want.

You send they some outside activities--how about volunteer like youth groups at a church, boys clubs, YMCA, or even at the local hospital. Maybe they are just trying too hard to have fun but yet find someone who has similar likes but does not want to make a commitment. They can also volunteer reading at a library, at a school, etc. but being single men, please tell them to be careful. Stay with the little ones, don't take them to the bathroom without a teacher etc, don't alone with pre-teen/teen girls/ etc without a another adult. Jut be cautious and careful.

This is tooooo funny!!! and confirms everything people always say - women don't want a nice guy despite what they say. Plus, sincerity in your DS is taken as desperation. What girl at his age wants 1 or 2 dates to be an interview? There's something men say, "I chased her until she caught me." LOL That is so true.

The second thing is everybody wants what others have, not what no one wants. Tell DS to start acting like his friend, aloof and uncaring without being insensitive. EVERY!!! girl will want him then. I can understand if he doesn't want to do that, but it is what will work. If one of those girls who gave him the brushoff sees him with an attractive young lady, say holding hands or dining together, he will receive a phone call the next day. Women say they want a nice guy, but they never do. They want what they can't have or, to be perfectly honest, they want to be mistreated. For some extremely strange reason. Never understood it but it is so obvious that's how it goes way too often. That is the reason BB is so successful. The girls think they can change him, change his mind into wanting to marry them. So very typical.

The third thing is, if he has slept with these girls somewhere between the first date and the brushoff, he'd better start reading up. I just asked this question a few weeks ago. The fact is, no woman is going to tell a man he's terrible in bed. But, it doesn't mean the opposite. While he's busy trying to figure out why he can't get to third base a second time, tell him to look in the mirror first and bookshelves second. I don't suppose he confided that much to mom but if mom wants him to be candid, you might as well get real with him in your discussions. Skating around the sex subject won't do him any good.

And personal hygiene is of course extremely important. No point in defending him and saying you know he's clean. You just can't possibly know that. Washing up the crack of his behind (there, I said it), it seems, is something not all young men think about. Skid marks in his underwear is repulsive whether she sees his underwear or not. I had to teach it to my 20 year old husband. I know mama did too, but he was 4 years old then.

Uxorial, Your statement, "The girls that are enjoying the college social scene aren't interested in an education. That's why they're out partying. In other words, they're husband hunting at college." I would like to disagree.

I'm not sure how you came up with that.
My niece is a social butterfly in college. She is a senior, the president of her sorority, just returned from Japan as an exchange student, has more party dresses in her closet than I've owned in 46 years (that wouldn't be hard tho), and does very well in school. I'm sure there are those people looking for mr/ms right using the college social scene. Overall I believe it's just part of going to college to work and have fun, if someone finds a great partner in the meantime, thats a plus.

Pickyshopper, I wish I had some advice for you. I imagine it just boils down to meeting the right person. Sometimes it takes quite a few dates to find that compatible person.

Bestlawn,
You had me in hysterics about washing his butt crack. HaHaHaHa.
I agree 100% about what you said. I was one of those girls that only wanted what I couldn't have. Women love the bad boys. The challenge makes the prize all the more exciting. Show DS and BB bestlawn's response. It's very true.

Donna

When DD was in college and afterwards when she was out working and dating in the big city, she complained that she wanted a guy with manners, class and who was nice and that they were hard to find. She had plenty of dates, but what she wanted to find was rare. (Again, I think she was not looking in the right places either.) She finally found one, and they are now married.

I also think that people who have high standards often find it hard to meet someone of the same ilk. That is my two cents.

Lots of good ideas for consideration here.

I remember DS#1 complaining that he would find a girl interesting for two weeks, and then he got bored. I told him to look for a girl who had more to offer than the beach bunnies he was bringing home. You might talk to the young men as to what they look for in a girl. They may certainly be using the wrong criteria.

Out of curiosity, what are the guys majors?

Well, 21 isn't exactly "over the hill" is it? Most girls know better than to hook up for a serious relationship at that point. They have to actually pay to go to school now and are probably taking it quite seriously. They have alot to focus on with school and building a career plus friends....guys only screw up that equation. FOr the girls who are more serious about a relationship at 21...WHY, what for?
By the way....I'm not anti-guy. You can easily substitute guys for girls.
Tell your son not to let the Valentine's Day pressure get to him. Go out with the guys and do something that they want to do and have fun! By the way...both men and women can sense the "desperate" vibe. I hate to say it, but I will....good things come to those who wait! Just don't waste your time waiting...live your life and be happy with what you are doing and who you are.

My youngest DS has just turned 30,and at the risk of sounding boastful,is one of the most likeable young men one could ever meet.He's outgoing,handsome,and has a great sense of humor.the past ten years,he's brought home more girls than I can count,some of whom he dated for months at a time.
For some reason,things never seemed to work out for him...he really wasn't ready to settle down,because his studies were taking up a huge part of his time.(He's just finishing up his doctorate)
It got to the point that he was beginning to wonder if there was ever going to be anyone out there that he was going to "connect" with.
Well last year he met a girl who is also studying towards her doctorate at the same university,and they really seem to be on the same wave length.They seem to be very happy together and we're keeping our fingers crossed that finally he's found his soulmate.
So 21 is young to be worried about a permanent relationship.If it happens,thats great,but tell them to just enjoy the moment and when the right girl comes along,they'll know.
Of course I married at 19,so what do I know...still have the old guy right beside me though! LOL

Good points, Eliza. The "kids" out here seem to wait till their 30s to marry. As others have said, they carry huge college debt and want to whittle some of that down. I also see with this generation much greater planning for a master's degree, but they work a few years first as a rule. So with all that on their plates, they are not interested in getting serious in their early 20s.

I disagree about the whole "women don't want a nice guy" thing. Maybe there are beautiful women who are too busy playing around and just have fun to be enamored of the average-joe nice guy, but I don't think that's true for *all* women.

Too many men are too busy chasing after the pretty girls and the beautiful girls, and they forget about the average girl.

Like the bard sang, "if you want to be happy for the rest of your life, don't you make a pretty woman your wife. Look at it from my point of view, get an ugly girl to marry you."

Rose

I wouldn't propose intimacy with a young woman on the first half dozen dates. Or a dozen, for that matter.

And if she were into those kind of games ... I wouldn't want to become serious with her.

Different generation, I guess.

But - in these days of HIV-AIDS ... can you explain to me the difference between promiscuity and Russian Roulette?

Some say condoms provide safe sex ... risk-reduced intercourse it may be ... "safe" sex it ain't! Calling that game "safe sex" is false advertising!

ole joyful

Wow, lots of great (and hilarious) advice here! I'm one who married at 21 (still married! :) and I really, really wanted to run from DH when I first met him b/c he was soooooo NICE!! LOL! He was almost *too* into me and it totally turned me off. I told him this, he retreated, and I am SO GLAD I stayed with him b/c he is a real sweetheart and always happy.

That doesn't mean we haven't had bad times, 'cause Lord!!!, we've been through some stuff! But he's my best friend and I know he can't wait to get home to me. :)

Blessings,
Haley

Simple...they each pick a date and switch..seems they pick better for their friend not them selves. LOL

Like Haley I was young..Child and married at 22/23. My husband had already been married and had children he's only 5 years older. I already encourage my teen son to have lots of friends..but he doesn't listen..he's been with the same girl the whole school year! But she's a good girl. We like her..but I told him this isn't likely to be his forever girl.

Thanks for all the responses so far!

mariend, both boys do have part time paying jobs, as well as volunteer jobs. School and their jobs are going great, it seems their only complaints are to do with the reverse dating luck they're experiencing (DS attracts the girls who want to be free agents and BB attracts the ones who want a boyfriend).

bestlawn, you cracked me up! I know DS hasn't slept with any of his dates because I asked him after BB left. We have a great relationship and I told him that it wouldn't be in his best interest to be having sex early on before he learns if they intend to be in a relationship with him. He laughed and said "Geez Mum, I know that, the only one I've ever been with was XGF (dated through highschool to 1st year college). He told me about the college 'fu@! buddy' trend, where kids hook up for sex only with no relationship. But he complained "how would they know the other person isn't hooking up with someone else as well?" So I know he wont' get sexually involved until he's been dating the same girl for some while and ascertained that it's a committed relationship.

eliza ann, I hope I didn't give the wrong impression. DS is looking to be in a 'committed' relationship, not a 'permanent' relationship. He's definitely not trying to find his future wife, but he's been going out on dates for almost 2 years now, and just feels he's ready to have a girlfriend again. He mentioned it would be nice to bring the same girl with him to hang out with his friends, as opposed to introducing a new girl every week or so.

adellabedealla, the boys undergraduate degrees will be in Business and Engineering, followed by Dental School and Architecture Apprentice.

kickypants, of course without a video camera to observe his dates I can't promise DS is never sending out the 'Desperate' vibe ; ) But I truly don't think so as he gets girls asking him out all the time, so the girls he dates probably think he loves all that attention.

DS told me something that did help me understand his feelings. He said, "Mum, please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not trying to compare girls to food, but I'm going to relate DATING to food. You know when you can't decide if you'd rather go out to the buffet place where there is an amazing variety of food, or you can go out to a little restaurant with a much more limited menu, but what they do serve is like a specialty? Well BB just got out of a 2 year relationship so he just wants to experience the buffet, for a while. But I've been going to the buffet for almost 2 years, and while I loved the variety, I'm just kind of looking forward to the small restaurant specialty place."

DS never inferred that the girls he meets are loose morally or anything like that, just because they want to date a large variety of guys. He just said that BB and he are in opposite places right now and for some quirky reason the girls who want the 'buffet' seem to be attracted to him and the 'small restaurant' girls seem to go for BB.

Oh well, I'm sure if they continue to date, they'll each make the right connection eventually!

terri, I actually joked with DS about exactly what you suggested, by telling him that maybe they should get matching T-shirts printed up to wear when they hang out together. Each could say "Trust me, my buddy is the guy you're looking for" hehe.

The young man is 21 and was in only one relationship through high school and hasn't had sex with anyone else since.

At the risk of sounding crass, that practically makes him a virgin in the eyes of many young women today. Unless he is going to some school where vows of chastity are the norm he may be scaring the potential girlfriends away.

This doesn't mean that he has to have casual sex with everyone he meets but if he doesn't make "some" kind of move by the third or fourth date it may be raising "questions" in the young ladies minds. Could be from "what's wrong with me?" to "what's wrong with him?".

Best bet to find someone to have a relationship with is to stop looking and go out for the sake of common interests for now.

I have to disagree with buddy sex being all that bad a thing in college. At least it's more honest. The risk of disease may actually be lower because no one is hiding anything. No one is trying to snag someone with guilt or an "accidental" pregnancy. Better than the relationships where one or both partners are sneaking around.