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Cathedral ceiling support?

16 years ago

Hey guys, so I'm mid-renovation on my home and have hit a bit of a stumbling block. Basically my house is a two story, but the entire 2nd story has been converted out of attic space (my guess). The second floor is built on 2x10s at 24in spacing that meet the top of the second story walls and serve as ceiling rafters for the first floor, and (i assume) cross ties to keep the roof from collapsing outward. My project is to rip out one of the 2nd story walls (parallel to the roof line) and add a railing for a loft style overhang over the first floor - featuring a cathedral ceiling which follows the roofline from the wall up to the top cross tie. I dont know if it's important, but the second floor is also supported by first-floor walls it seems. Above the second floor, I have also noted 4ft long cross ties which also form the top of the ceiling for the 2nd floor. The roof rafters (long boards that create the roof line and support the roof decking - sorry if I got the term wrong) are long 2x4s. I am already planning on adding 2x10 rafters along side the 2x4s to create a larger insulating space, probably not with a continuous board though. My questions: Am I detracting from the strength of the roof by doubling each 2x4 with 2x10 segments? Should I even be concerned with the strength of an approx 13 ft long piece of roof supporting itself and 2x10 pieces? I just hear about roofing today utilizing either 2x10s or similarly strong pieces of lumber instead of the 2x4 rafters of yesteryear. Am I being too paranoid? I think the angle of the roof is near 45deg if that matters and like is said, the roof and ceiling will run unsupported except at the ridge board, the top cross tie (approx 4ft in length), and the top of the exterior wall, where it also meets the floor joists/ceiling ties.

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Comments (2)

ron6519
16 years ago
Doing this without an Architect or structural engineers plan is absurd. It's obvious you do not have the qualifications to plan this and doubtfully the experience to construct it properly.
Stick to a level of home renovation that doesn't compromise the health and safety of the people who will live there.
Ron
rescuer
16 years ago
Hi,

We had half of the second floor of our house removed to make a loft style upstairs. The light that poors in from the second floor makes it well worth the effort. However, we brought in three contractors and a structural engineer before making our decision. We also hired an excellent contractor to do the work. Our house is post and beam construction which made the work possible. However, it also required tension poles coming from the basement and through the first floor. The structural engineer provided guidance as to the exact location of the poles. Without the input of an expert the renovation could have been a real disaster. The money spent retaining experts is money well spent. It costs a lot more to try and repair structural damage to a home. Good luck with your project, but please get some expert advice. Your home will thank you.
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Congrats on finding a solution! Juliann Grow has good advice. Need to get some continuity of the wall. Using the plywood sheathing to bridge the joint is a good idea. Need to go well past the joint on the bottom (a few feet) and use lots of connectors. Might also consider bridging the joint with MDO plywood on the inside face with lots of connectors rather than using drywall. It's available in 1/2 inch, finishes just like drywall and will add lots of strength if used inconjunction with the exterior plywood(though it's WAY more expensive). I also like mightyanvils idea of sistering longer studs to the existing ones. There might be obstacles though. Make sure your architect understands the "hinge" issue at the joint (interface of plate and knee-wall). They might suggest that if 4 walls have the knee walls then the whole system braces itself. This would be true for the knee walls, but need to make sure the lower walls are braced too (might be there if well connected to existing structure. Logic tells me that if lower walls worked for the cathedral scenario, then it will work for the knee wall arrangement, but just thinking out loud here).
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Having questions about a project with the potential lethality of yours is a good thing! Knowledge is always a good thing to seek to gain. However, knowledge and experience are two different things. Even if you find a zillion internet resources that tell you how to cook meth, you can bet that there are more than a few out there who create a toxic mess or have it blow up in their face when they think they understand the instructions. Bottom line is, you need to have a professional do this portion of your job. And pay attention. And help if he'll let you. (He'll probably charge extra for that training IF he is even open to that!) It's only after you have you've been there in person and helped with a few yourself that you would be qualified to understand the minute details in positioning the supports that make the difference between success and an (denied) insurance claim. And please don't use the old line, "It's not rocket science," because you're wrong. It IS the same math calculations and knowledge that was needed to send men to the moon. Just at a lower applied level. There is NO shame in seeking the help of an experienced pro for a job. There's plenty of blame though when a job goes wrong when an amateur attempts to implement a professional's design. With you being at the top of the responsibility list.
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I used Ivoire in our two-story living room and entry, 9' dining room an most of the halls. Because we have such an open floor plan, I picked the next color up on the strip (Navajo White) for the ceilings. In the two-story great room in my last house, I went with the wall color on the ceiling. I'm glad we went with the Navajo here. It's a very nice, complex color that complements the Ivoire and transitions beautifully to the other colors I've used through the house. Ivoire can take on a bit of a pastel look with certain lighting. The formula for the gallon has an added color that isn't in the quarts-to-go. I'm happy we didn't put it on the ceiling now.
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Well, you need an attachment point above it. I sprayed the tree with anti-dessicant spray so it wouldn't dry out, drilled a 1/2" hole through the base of the trunk, put a rope through the hole, threw the rope over the support that it would be hanging from, and hoisted it up. Then I put on the lights and ornaments after it was in place. Wish I had a picture to show you, but can't find one right now.
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