I doubt they'll give me my money back. My guess is they'll say something I want to hear or say that it could change in time.

#1 was actually a girl and #2 a guy. I thoroughly questioned both of them before I order this. My question was completely not answered at first & in another email I made a point to call it out and ask again....

That fact that the sheen isn't the same!! I can't get over that. It's not the same thing.

In the can it looks white. Had the consistency of runny lotion. You can't see throught it. Not really too many fumes. The can actually says Mohawk on it.

One of our subcontractors supplies Merillat. I contacted them about the sealer and got this answer..

"We have never kept that here.I checked to see if it could be purchased from Merillat,and it can not.Their description of the top coat is,it is a heat
catalyzed finish,whatever that is"

Nice answer huh. I figured he proably thought it was for our company (never mentioned personal use) and we owed them money for a job or he didn't feel like messing with it.

On page 133 of their specs it has a whole bunch of info about purchasing quarts to match the factory finish.

That's when I emailed Meriallat and asked where I could get it. They told me to search "where to buy" on their site. I did and the first three places (different locations) that came up was the company I already contacted! There weren't any others really in the area. I left them know this and what I was told... they took care of it.

It doesn't say water based on it but it says to clean with water and soap so I assumed it was.

My Dad acutally had a can of the clear poly (looks an amber color) so I just sampled that first. I can't bring myself to use that. The color is wrong and it's probably going to intensify on a large piece.

I heard the water based ones (at least minwax)are streaky and not easy to work with? Plus, what happens if the rest of my cabinets continue to age in color? Looks like they're going to.

Blah. I really need to go to bed. My email to Merillat put the ball in their court.

Another thing I should mention is the beadboard, as you can probably tell from the before pics I posted, is that wood paneling. It is wood but veneer. I really didn't think that should make a grand difference on the color or again, the sheen.

What in the world!?

On the white paper that came in the Mohawk Finishing box it says on the back

#4.
These finishes have been designed to finish trim and molding to complete your cabinetry project. This product is not designed to finish doors, panels, or cabinets.

????????

I will say the color names of stain you can order match up to the names on their specs.

Ok last one and I'm going to bed.

I made a point to also let them know what I would be using this for.

If it were me I'd work hard at getting my money back. Especially since I'm sure you told them what you were staining and the paperwork that came with it states it's for trim.

Are you a contractor?

Well I didn't say I was staining but I left them know what it was for and told them what my cabinets were.

I work (in the office) for a general contractor. (commercial and industrial).

I ran into a similar situation. DH installed oak flooring, then he put in oak stair rail and steps. Went to local paint store to get a stain match so I could do the stairs to match the floor. Paint store carried the line that actually had contract w/flooring manufacturer stain, so had exact formula. Lucky fluke for me, right? Not. Long drawn out nightmare involving baby poo brown stain and about 50 pounds of sandpaper.

I ended up doing my own color on the stairs, just fiddled with stain till I got a match on sample wood. (You can mix stains, if they are same base, oil or water, and same sheen.)

I'd suggest hitting some hardware stores, Minwax and Valspar both carry tiny sample packs for under $1 each, and get your own match.

I used Minwax Rub-On Poly on our stair rail, it's water based. (You are correct, water base does not amber like oil-based will.) It was super easy to work with, I just applied with a t-shirt fabric. In my kitchen, tho, I'd use oil-based.

Your cabs are oak, what is the bead board?

Moonshadow - I think I could probably get a stain to match but then if I add a poly I would think it's going to change the color yet again. Water base won't keep up with the rest of the cabinet color. . . I don't really know what to do.
The cabinets and beadboard are both red oak.

Here's some photos

Left is minwax oil based poly. right two rows are Merillat's stuff while still wet. Both are too brown for the existing finish.
{{gwi:1582994}}
Here's the sample dry against the island. Bottom must be a little wet still.
{{gwi:1582995}}
close up dry (again, it's the left 2 rows)
{{gwi:1582996}}
You can see why I need it to not dry clear.
{{gwi:1582997}}

Anyone think I should use this product?? So what's my next step? Keep trying different brands of oil based poly until I find one that kind of works? I'm assuming I'll have to use oil based. If I were to stain it oil based and then slap an oil based poly on top I would think it's still not going to match.

Why don't you paint the island the same color as your walls. It might be nice to break up all of that oak anyhow.

shee, check out Minwax Golden Pecan. (I used oil-based.)
Will post a pic later, have to run.
But it's what I used on my steps to match the floor. Very little color to it, amps up the wood just enough that it looks like it would be close to your cab color in photos.

Color chart below!

Here is a link that might be useful: Minwax (oil) color chart

Alisha, I'd return the Merrillat quart, quote the part about not to be used for cabinets to them.

Red oak will vary in color. I have Merillat Cider stain, the finish seems to be a semi-gloss. To match my trim pieces (red oak) in on my island, I used Natural stain (oil-based penetrating stain) and in a few places I rubbed a little Cherrywood gel stain on where I was trying to get close to a really red door or drawer, then wiped off. After getting the color I wanted, I decided to use water-based poly (Polycrylic Clear Semi-gloss) so as not to have it amber. That didn't give me *quite* the sheen to match (doesn't matter on island where trim isn't in same plane as doors), but when I had to refinish a drawer front that got scratched, I sanded it, brushed on Natural stain, when that was dry put on a coat of clear Zinnsser Seal Coat dewaxed shellac, then when that was dry (dries quickly), scuff sanded it and brushed on a thick coat of Polycrylic and then wiped the excess off right away to get rid of the brush marks and bubbles. I suppose I also could have thinned a little with water (though it says not to) or gotten the water-based Wipeon but I already had the can. HTH.

Sorry no pic of the drawer (other side of kitchen).

Remember if it doesn't match *exactly* it's OK, since the island isn't touching the cabinets, no one will notice a slight difference in sheen (though they certainly would notice the drawer being different from the cabinet/doors below, DH hasn't noticed in the past 6 months so the shellac/semi-gloss poly must be pretty good match). As far as color, the island probably gets more light so may eventually change color differently than the cabinets no matter what finish you put on it.

It could be the difference of using red oak or white oak. When I've done woodworking, I will wet an area (water or spit !!) and that will usually show what a clear coat is going to look like. Since you said you would be putting your finish on cabinets (not trim) I'd think you should be able to get your money back. Hope so.

Shee, if I were in your shoes, I'd paint the island instead of staining. It's always hard to get new to match existing (for me, anyway!) And I do love the look of painted islands. Maybe one of the photoshop gurus can make you a mockup of different colors (white, black, green)?

I feel your pain!!!

Just my 2 cents, and it may not even be worth that.

We put an island in our kitchen with same cabs, same finish, same manufacturer as the existing wall cabs, and two years later, they still aren't the same. It is remarkable how wood can darken. Maybe in 10 more years, the island cabs will darken enough to look the same as the wall cabs.

I think it is going to be very tough for you to match the finish of your existing cabs.

I remember SH photoshopping your island and doing a reddish paint/stain. I thought it looked fantastic!

Grrr... I haven't heard anything back yet. Funny how fast they moved when I wasn't able to purchase it and wanted to. I didn't even send them the "I want my money back" email yet. I'm curious to see what they say.

Going to pick up some stain today.

Ajsmama - Thanks for posting your photo. Looks pretty good! To me, I think my cabinets look semi gloss but compared to the minwax semi gloss poly I assumed satin.

Moon - Sorry I missed that last line. I get overwhelmed with refinishing. There's so much out there.
I think that color was one I thought would work.

Hoosier - Squirrel did a bunch of awesome ps for me in previous threads. I don't like white and I think black is too heavy with my white honking refrigerator right there. I like the glazed look of the one and the other is green but I'm pretty sure I'll tire of it. I'm not convinced I can achieve either look. I'm going to put corner pieces on to match the island and black base at the bottom.

Painting would be so much easier. I know someday, years from now, the cabinets will get painted.

What I would like it to look like.
{{gwi:1582999}}

Other one I liked.
{{gwi:1583000}}

See above where I have the sample against the cabinet? I said the minwax is on the left but below where it's black. That's glaze I was experimenting with. I don't think that looks nice.

I didn't know they had $1.00 samples of minwax. I never saw them there before. I'll have to ask.

Remember there's also doors and drawers on the face of the island. That was the other issue I was concerned about with any type of glaze.

Ack, this has turned into a mess. Even if the beadboard ends up ugly when I'm done I still think I'll like it better than how my island originally came.

I thought I remembered your island being photoshopped, but then I thought it was just my bad memory kicking in. I hope this turns out better than you had ever dreamed when it's all said & done!

Shee - I really like the green! You could always repaint the island when you repaint the walls. Or would that be a problem with the other side of the island (I'm assuming they're the Merillat Natural oak?)?

Try the semi gloss on scraps of beadboard, just brush it on and wipe most of it off, or get the wipe-on stuff. I think it looks shinier than the factory finish b/c you're putting it on thicker. I'm assuming we have the same topcoat b/c my cabinets are only a year older than yours (2007).

I know you're ready to pull your hair out. You seem to move on the fast track as far as changes go, lol.

After seeing your beautiful laundry room emerge with those white cabinets I think you should do the same in your kitchen. And what better place to start than the island. Do you have any of that beadboard wallpaper left over? Play with it on the island and live with it for a few days. See if your perspective changes. If it doesn't, then go back to fighting the stain battle. And if it does, then paint the island.

Looks to me like the cabinets are red oak, and your beadboard is white oak, and a very light example of it at that. You're going to have to color the wood somehow, now that it's effectively sealed, it will have to be a color added to the subsequent coats of varnish, or a gel stain under the next coats of varnish, or both.
Good luck.
Casey

Shee, I hope that's just a sample board you're playing with. You'd 'never' get a match that easily ; ) I'd warned in your other thread how you'll probably have to mix some stain colors to get the same color. It's not hard, you just have to start somewhere and tweak it until you get the color you're after. Looking at what you get with the clear, you might do well to mix some stain into the sealer, as Casey suggested.

Measure proportions for your experiments and write down what you're doing so you can recreate the color again.

I bought some Minwax golden pecan stain and pre conditioner. Do I need that for oak? Figured I might as well pick it up.

Hoosier - Thanks, I hope it turns out!

Ajsmama - Maybe I did put it on too thick. This was my first time trying poly. Are you suppose to wipe most of it off normally? I agree our cabinets probably have the same finish. The front does have cabinets and drawers so that's the other tricky part of this. You should make a trip here and help me!

Natal - "you move on the fast tracks as far as changes go.." Hmm... is that a good or bad thing? You're right though. I've made a bunch of expensive mistakes and I'm afraid of making more so I think that's a big part of the problem at times.

At one point I thought about using that paper on the island before I even bought it. That would've been the cheapest! But there's no way it would do well there. It's thick and kind of foamy on the outside. Seems to cure a tougher finish with the paint but before (haven't tried it since) I could dent it with my nail. It wouldn't be good for people to sit there because of their feet. Plus, I don't want to rip off the stuff since I just put it on. I also think my Dad would never work on another house project for me. :) It's funny, I get my pickiness from him and a lot of other traits but those are the things I drive him nuts with. lol

Casey - I agree the beadboard looks to be white oak. I even asked before I ordered it and they assured me it was red. :(

Hopefully I can make something work. If not, I might be reconsidering paint.

Shee, I didn't mean to put the wallpaper there permanently ... just long enough to get a visual for how it would look to paint the actual beadboard white.

You don't need a preconditioner for oak (unless you want to put it on the heavily grained parts, if there are any, so the stain doesn't sink in as much). Might want to pick up some Honey Maple color too, to try to match, but first try Natural. Do you have a lot of scrap?

Usually you just brush on poly and and don't do anything to the last coat (it doesn't cure hard so you can't "rub it out"), but I thought the Polycrylic had too "plasticky" (and shiny) a look so I just wiped off the excess after the last coat. I'd have to find my notes, I think I did 2 coats brushed on and sanded after each one, then brushed on the final coat and immediately wiped it off so last coat is really thin, except in the grain. The drawer I just did a coat of shellac and then a brush-on, wipe-off coat of poly.

If you remember my newel posts and railing, those were shellac followed by an oil-based Wipeon Poly. But I didn't care if they ambered since I wasn't trying to match anything.

Squirrel - We must have posted at the same time. Yeah, I remember you saying that about the stain but I thought since this was coming from the company and was the "same thing" I'd get away without doing that. Sample piece? Oh my, yes. I have another large sheet left to mess with.

Natal - That makes sense. I get it now, thanks.

Ajsmama - Will it hurt to use the preconditioner? I would think I should lightly sand over the whole island first. There's some spots where the grain feels rough. I'll try it both ways on a sample I guess and see.

Thanks for the tip about the poly.

Does the finish turn out better with stain using a brush or cloth? It says you can use either.

I have used a cloth, to rub it around and even things out.

The piece of wood itself makes a big difference in what the end color will be. Just because it's the same type of wood doesn't mean it will be a color match.

Glad you're prepared with that test board!

I wouldn't sand the beadboard before you stain it - you might sand through the veneer! If there are any *really* rough spots I guess you could, but I'd get a fine grit and try it first before jumping in with 220 or lower. I would think the beadboard would be sold ready to stain?

Again, with it being a veneer I wouldn't think it would have areas of heavy grain (can't see any in the pics) so I would skip the conditioner - it will keep the stain from sinking in. Try a small sample piece - brush the stain on to get good coverage (esp. if a little rough), then wipe off any excess/dark spots with a lint-free cloth or a dry brush. Again, if it's a little rough you may be better off with a dry brush since even an old T shirt can leave strings and lint if the wood is rough. When the stain is dry (usually 24 hours), apply your first coat of finish and when that's dry *then* you can sand lightly and tack cloth before the next coat.

I'd love to help you with this, wish you lived closer b/c this is going to take some time with trying different stains and finishes. Good luck.

This is the answer I just got back from Merillat.... I had a feeling they were going to say that. They didn't answer any of the questions I asked and they didn't bother to really explain anything else. What the heck is a sanding sealer? And why does their site and why did they fail to mention this?

"We are sorry but as we do not sell to the public, you need to contact the place of purchase in regard to the stores return policies.

In regards to performance, this would depend on the material you are finishing. If you did not treat the material with a sanding sealer, it will take several coats of topcoat to get the shine that you are looking for.

Either way, this is an issue to take up with the store the item was purchased from."

They're right about contacting the place you bought it from for return policy, but they don't know what they're talking about with sanding sealer on a veneer. Not to mention you thought their finish was flatter than semigloss, not shiny (though i think mine is semigloss, which is shinier than I like but what can you do?). You'd build sheen a bit by using more topcoats and sanding, but really the sheen is determined by the sheen of the finish (satin has flattening agents, gloss has none) and if you "rub out" the final coat (which you an do with a hard coat like lacquer or shellac but not poly).

Now, *if* you have heavy grain/large pores, you could either fill them with a grain filler (not wood filler/putty), or use multiple coats of topcoat. I don't think your beadboard has heavy grain and doesn't need to be filled. You can apply a thin(nned) coat of your finish, or use the Sealcoat like I did on the drawer, then sand *lightly* before applying another coat or two.

you're just going to have to experiment.

Another vote for painting. It would look great, and your other cabinets can remain stained. We have a black island, with beadboard, and the surrounding cabinets are creamy white with beadboard. It would be much easier than trying to match a stain and getting close, but not quite.

If you don't want the harshness of black paint on the island, why don't you try a black stain. Looking around your kitchen, you sure have a lot of oak going on there with the cabinets and table and chairs.

I had the same problem a number of years ago with matching oak cabinets to existing oak cabinets. Since I had varnished (no stain) the existing cabinets a few months earlier, I knew the product I had used. When I varnished the new cabinets, the sheen was the same but the color difference was very noticeable. I didn't practice on another piece of wood, like you did. There was no way that I was going to sand off that varnish, so I went to a shop that sold stain & varnish, told them my problem & they gave me a reddish stain color to add to my varnish. I ended up adding 3 more coats of varnish with color added, before I had a match. Of course, I sanded after each coat of varnish. I ended up with a really nice smooth finish on the cabinets! :) I'll bet if you took a drawer with you, someone at a paint/finishing store could help you. Just my thoughts on your problem. Good Luck!

Finally home and am getting ready to mess with the stain.

What would you guys say back to Merillat? It makes sense to talk with the company I bought it from BUT... I'm sure not going to like no for an answer and I think the answer Merillat gave or didn't give me is ridiculous.
I don't really know how to proceed with either.

When I call the supplier tomorrow and give me speach (nice) if they tell me no, then what do I say? Some people are really good at talking and working situations like this out, I'm not one of them.

So what would you say back to Merillat and what would you say to the supplier if they tell me no. I mean they didn't really have anything to do with what Merillat told me direct. I was dealing with them. The supplier told me they didn't even have it and couldn't get it originally.

I'll be back with an update of what the stain looks like.

If I were to stain the island darker again, I'd have to sand the front side with the cabinets and that sounds like a scary nightmare too. Ha, if I failed with that as well there's still paint. Then my bar stools and corbels are going to blend in. The reason I painted them to begin with is because they blended in. *sigh*

Even to pay someone else to do it, I don't know any place or anyone that's good at this type of thing. Most people (around here) think close = good or great.

Just tell the supplier that the instructions say for trim not cabinets. Maybe they'll take it back. If not, you can experiment a bit. Did you say it was too flat? Then get some Sealcoat shellac and try that as a "sanding sealer" (sand lightly before putting on 1 or more coats of your finish, sanding b/t coats) - you can try stain under it, or you can thin it out with denatured alcohol and then stain over it (but then you need to seal it again before sanding - *never* sand stain). The shellac might make it a bit shinier - that's what it seemed to do to the Satin Wipeon poly I used on the railing & newels. Though it didn't seem to make the Polycrylic Semigloss any shinier, the final product did seem smoother than using poly as the first coat and then sanding, probably b/c shellac dries harder and is easier to sand than poly, so it *was* actually smoother.

I want to reply to the Merillat guy. I feel like I'm being blown off as a stupid girl. It's their product and it's NOT what it's suppose to be according to them, the site, and the instructions.

When you say "sand lightly before putting on 1 or more coats of your finish, sanding between coats" is finish meaning the new sealer or the Sealcoat shellac?.

Order is stain, shellac or thin out the shellac with denatured alcohol and then stain, right?

Here's the golden pecan. I did 4 1/2 rows. 1st two rows is the magical sealer that's suppose to match. There's no poly on it yet but which will probably change the color more but at this point I honestly think it's close. Closer than just the poly was. My cabinets have variation of color. Of course, I also need to see it during the day.

**I just realized Minwax Polycrylic is a water base you can use over this oil base. What do you think of that as far as overtime? Will it amber at all? What about due to light?

The first 3 full rows weren't on even 5 min. I realized I didn't time so I did 1/2 of another row and left it on only a min and it got just as dark. Where there's no grain it looks much lighter. Maybe wouldn't be bad once on the whole island.

I acutally think having the island a slightly darker shade would be better than having it too close but not matching.

It doesn't there's any lighter minwax stains that aren't more brown based.

{{gwi:1583001}}
{{gwi:1583002}}
the original poly is on the left (glaze is that weird dark section below), new stuff is on the right.
{{gwi:1583003}}
{{gwi:1583004}}

Order is

1. *Lightly* sand any rough edges (fold the sandpaper) - hopefully you can skip this step if there aren't any splintering grooves.

2. Clean/dust (mineral spirits/paint thinner - dries fast - don't use water!).

3. Stain, let dry.

4. Brush on thin coat of clear Sealcoat (or you can experiment with amber but make sure it's dewaxed, maybe you wont have to stain if you use amber shellac).

OR

3. Brush on thinned coat of Clear Sealcoat, let dry (about 30 min)

4. Stain (it won't penetrate as much with Sealcoat under so do this if you think the grain is too dark applying stain to bare wood). let dry (24 hours).

5. At this point, if you stained bare wood and then put Sealcoat on, you can sand it lightly. If you put the Sealcoat on first, then stained, you will have to put another coat (straight out of can) of shellac on and let it dry before you can sand.

6. Once you've sanded your shellac as smooth as you want it (be careful not to go through veneer! Try 320 grit), wipe it down with mineral spirits again to get the dust off, then you can put your poly or Merillat topcoat, whatever you want on.

7. Follow Minwax/Merillat instructions for drying time and scuff sanding (*lightly*!) before applying another coat (or 2).

8. I can't speak for the Merillat finish, but I really liked the look of one coat of shellac and one thick coat of Polycrylic (wiped off immediately). you have to see what looks best to you. More coats = more protection.

You'll still see the grain in the oak since you aren't using a grain filler, but Merillat doesn't fill their oak anyway. Take your time and sand the little dust nibs between coats and you'll have a better finish than the factory (at least my factory) finish.

Try all these steps on scrap piece, so you know how many coats you want and how much sanding (and what grit) you can do.

It would have been easier to finish the beadboard before installation, but now you know for next time.

Good night!

Oh, bless you for helping me with this. I was going to send you an email direct about all this but you don't have one listed when I click your name.

Ok... I had to read that like 6 times (slow and outloud!) but it finally makes pretty good sense.

I don't really feel comfortable with staining because I don't know how to properly clean up. I bought a cheap brush for this and it's outside drying and I'm going to throw it out tomorrow. I don't know how you clean with mineral spirits. Where do you do it at? Outside? The sink?

I do have some basic questions...

1. What are dust nibs?
2. When you say "mineral spirits/paint thinner" do you mean either of them or mix them? What do I put the mineral spirits on? Old t shirt?
3. So when you're applying shellac you're using a brush?
4. How about when you apply the poly?
5. Can I just use an old t shirt or something to wipe it off?
6. Should I be using nice, expensive synthetic brushes?
7. What about clean up? Can I just throw them away when everything dries out?
How wide of sections do you recommend doing at a time?
8. Do you think 1/2 pt (small can) of stain, smaller can of poly and shellac will be enough for the island? The base of the island is 2'x5'.

I'm going to try both ways. Is this the stuff I need to buy?
http://www.zinsser.com/product_detail.asp?ProductID=72

I don't even know if I can use Meriallat's sealer over that since it's water based. I probably shouldn't even bother to ask Merillat their opinion. Still going to try and return it. I guess if I eat the $42.50 it's not the end of the world but it's frustrating.

What do you think about the golden pecan color I tried last? IRL (at night anyhow) I think it works pretty well now that I'm looking at it more. My cabinets have a good bit of color variation. The grain is darker in some places.

And last but not least, it's not going to darken over time since the poly is water based, right? I'm just hoping a year or so from now my cabinets aren't even more orange.

Did your cabinets amber?

Thanks so much for all your help.

I need to make a list of things to pick up tomorrow.

Oh, I wish you lived closer so I could come over and help!

"I don't know how you clean with mineral spirits. Where do you do it at? Outside? The sink?"

NO, DON'T DO IT OVER THE SINK. POUR SOME MINERAL SPIRITS OR PAINT THINNER (REALLY THE SAME THING, JUST MARKETED UNDER DIFFERENT NAMES), SINCE YOU'RE DOING THIS INSIDE USE ODORLESS MINERAL SPIRITS. IF IT COMES IN A CAN WITH A SMALL POUR SPOUT, CAREFULLY POUR A LITTLE ONTO AN OLD WHITE T SHIRT BY HOLDING THE T SHIRT RIGHT UP AGAINST THE SPOUT SO YOU DON'T SPILL ANY (MAKE SURE TO USE DROP CLOTH ON YOUR FLOOR). WEAR LATEX GLOVES. WIPE THE DAMP RAG UP AND DOWN YOUR BEADBOARD TO GET OFF ANY DUST FROM SANDING (OR JUST HOUSEHOLD DUST IF YOU DON'T HAVE TO SAND FIRST). SPREAD THE RAG OUT TO DRY ON A PIECE OF CARDBOARD IN THE BASEMENT OR GARAGE AWAY FROM HEAT (SINCE IT'S WINTER - I USUALLY DO THIS OUTSIDE). ONCE IT'S DRY YOU CAN THROW IT AWAY. OR YOU CAN PUT IT IN A SEALED METAL CONTAINER OF WATER (LIKE OLD PAINT CAN). DO THIS WITH ANY RAGS YOU USE FOR STAIN, SHELLAC, ETC. TOO.

I do have some basic questions...

1. What are dust nibs?

DUST NIBS ARE THE LITTLE BITS OF DUST THAT ALWAYS GET CAUGHT IN YOUR FINISH AS IT'S DRYING (SINCE YOU DON'T HAVE A "CLEAN ROOM"). NOTHING YOU CAN REALLY DO WITH FINAL COAT OF POLY EXCEPT TRY TO CLEAN THE ROOM BEFORE YOU APPLY IT, AND AVOID WALKING, RUNNING A FAN OR FORCED HOT AIR HEAT/AC, ANYTHING THAT MIGHT STIR UP DUST WHILE IT'S DRYING. YOU CAN GET RID OF DUST NIBS IN THE FIRST COAT(S) BY SANDING (HELPS NEXT COAT STICK BETTER TOO). SINCE THIS IS VERTICAL TEXTURED SURFACE AND UNDER A COUNTERTOP I DON'T THINK YOU NEED TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT THE FINAL COAT - NO ONE WILL EVER NOTICE IF IT HAS A LITTLE DUST CAUGHT IN IT.

2. When you say "mineral spirits/paint thinner" do you mean either of them or mix them? What do I put the mineral spirits on? Old t shirt?

SEE ABOVE

3. So when you're applying shellac you're using a brush?

YES, GET A GOOD (NOT SHEDDING) NATURAL BRISTLE BRUSH. DON'T USE SYNTHETIC OR FOAM! THE SHELLAC WILL EAT THEM UP AND LEAVE BITS ALL OVER YOUR PROJECT! I WIPED THE SHELLAC ON MINE, BUT I WAS DOING SMALL AREAS (DRAWER WAS THE WIDEST AT MAYBE 7 INCHES) THAT WERE FAIRLY SMOOTH. YOU'VE GOT A LOT OF SURFACE AND IT'S GROOVED, YOU WANT TO GET THE SHELLAC INTO THE GROOVES EVENLY (BUT DON'T LET IT DRIP AND RUN DOWN THE GROOVE, OR FILL IT IN). PLUS MIGHT BE EASIER TO USE A BRUSH JUST B/C IT'S VERTICAL.

4. How about when you apply the poly?

ACTUALLY, I'VE NEVER TRIED IT, BUT FROM WHAT I'VE READ FROM OTHER PEOPLE, THE EASIEST WAY FOR YOU TO APPLY THE POLY MIGHT BE WITH A SMALL FOAM OR MICROFIBER ROLLER (STIR, POUR SOME INTO A DISPOSABLE COOKIE SHEET, ROLL IT ON, DON'T GO BACK OVER IT WITH THE ROLLER, JUST ONE PASS, MAYBE GO OVER WITH A SMALL BRUSH IN THE GROOVES, WORK A SMALL AREA AT A TIME). I LIKE WIPING POLY, BUT AGAIN THAT WORKS BEST ON NARROW PIECES. BRUSHING LEAVES MARKS BUT IF YOU WORK VERTICALLY IN SMALL SECTIONS IT MIGHT WORK OUT SINCE YOU'VE GO THE GROOVES, IT'S NOT ONE BIG FLAT AREA. YOU'LL HAVE TO EXPERIMENT.

5. Can I just use an old t shirt or something to wipe it off?

AGAIN, EXPERIMENT. IF YOU ROLL IT THIN ENOUGH YOU MIGHT NOT HAVE TO WIPE, AND SINCE IT'S NOT REALLY "OUT THERE" LIKE A DRAWER FRONT (OR TABLE TOP) IS, YOU MIGHT BE HAPPY WITH JUST ROLLING IT. IF YOU WANT TO TRY WIPING B/C IT'S GOING ON THICK, MAKE SURE YOU DO IT RIGHT AWAY WHILE IT'S STILL WET, VERTICALLY, AND WORK IN SECTIONS SMALL ENOUGH FOR YOUR RAG/GLOVED HAND TO FIT B/T THE GROOVES, CAN FEATHER OUT ANY MARKS WITH A DRY BRUSH. BUT I REALLY DON'T THINK YOU NEED TO BE FUSSY AND TRY TO GET A "FURNITURE FINISH" UNDER YOUR BREAKFAST BAR. MAYBE BE A LITTLE FUSSIER ON THE EXPOSED ENDS.

6. Should I be using nice, expensive synthetic brushes?

NOT FOR POLY. YES FOR SHELLAC - BUT YOU ONLY NEED ONE. CLEAN IT WITH DENATURED ALCOHOL. YOU COULD JUST TRY WIPING ON THE SHELLAC IF YOU DON'T WANT TO BUY A $12 BRUSH, BUT AGAIN YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO WORK IN SMALL SECTIONS JUST WIDE ENOUGH FOR YOUR HAND TO AVOID RIDGES THAT YOU'LL HAVE TO SAND OUT. YOU WANT TO AVOID SANDING VENEER AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.

7. What about clean up? Can I just throw them away when everything dries out?

SEE ABOVE. OH, AND DON'T DIP A RAG OR BRUSH DIRECTLY INTO A CAN (YOU CAN CONTAMINATE THE CAN WITH DUST, HAIRS, ETC.). POUR IT INTO A CLEAN DISPOSABLE CONTAINER (I LIKE GLASS SALSA JARS WITH WIDE MOUTHS, PB JARS ARE TALLER AND GOOD FOR CLEANING BRUSHES) AND WORK FROM THERE.

How wide of sections do you recommend doing at a time?

AS WIDE AS YOUR HAND IF WIPING, WIDER IF USING A ROLLER (BUT EVEN THAT WON'T BE TOO WIDE). WORK VERTICALLY AND BRUSH INTO THE GROOVES AS I DESCRIBED ABOVE.

8. Do you think 1/2 pt (small can) of stain, smaller can of poly and shellac will be enough for the island? The base of the island is 2'x5'.

YOU'D HAVE TO READ THE CANS FOR COVERAGE. PENETRATING STAIN GOES PRETTY FAR, BUT 1/2 PINT SEEMS SMALL. ISLAND IS 5' WIDE X SAY 3' TALL THAT'S 15SF PLUS ENDS ARE ANOTHER 2'X3'X2 OF THEM = 12 = 27 SF. I THINK THEY ONLY SELL SEALCOAT IN QUARTS OR LARGER, BUT IF YOU SEAL IT UP WELL IT'LL KEEP. MAKE SURE YOU CHECK MANUFACTURE DATE ON IT - TRY TO GET SOMETHING NO MORE THAN 6MO - 1 YR OLD. YOU HAVE THE QUART OF POLY, IF YOU CAN RETURN THAT YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET SMALLER CAN (EVEN THE WIPE-ON POLY, IT'S THINNED ALREADY SO YOU CAN ROLL IT ON EASILY, BUT THEN IT *WILL* TAKE MORE THAN 1 COAT OVER THE SHELLAC).

Sorry for all the caps, wasn't "yelling" but I thought it might be easier for you to read. It's only been 6 months or so since I did the drawer and stair parts with shellac, so I can't tell if there's ambering. It's been closer to a year (wow!) since I did the island trim with Polycrylic only, but I can't see any color change. I think Golden Pecan looks good, but things don't look the same IRL so you have to be the judge of that. If *you* like it, go for it.

hth.

Oops, more questions that weren't numbered.

Yes, that's the Sealcoat I was talking about. Funny they call it a sanding sealer - it's just dewaxed shellac. Minwax makes a sanding sealer but you don't want to be using that, I'm not sure what's in it but since it's oil-based (mineral spirit cleanup) your water-based poly won't stick to it.

Oh, and here's a pic of the drawer and (original) cabinet doors so you can see the sheen. No flash, just island lights reflecting off the finish. I'm lying on the floor pointing the camera up to get the reflection - sorry it's blurry.

Oh, and I used 1/2 qt of Sealcoat (from feel of can when I lifted it) for one door, the railing, 2 newels, and the drawer. But I don't know how many sf that was - you might use the whole qt on your island but as I said I think that's the smallest they sell anyway.

No time now - have to shower and run errands b4 DD gets home. I don't remember what grit I used on newel posts, but here's instructions I sort of followed (didn't get as crazy on the final coat as Richard does). Search for my summer post(s) on newels and maybe you can find my process.

Thank you so much!! A few more. . .

3. Under your instructions
"Thinned coat of sealcoat" as in just a thin coat right? I don't need to actually thin it out with something?

if put in a sealed metal container of water, what do you do with the whole thing then? Throw the whole thing out? I'll probably just let it dry but am curious.

3.
What about a brush for stain? Does that need to be an expensive synthetic? I used one of those cheap throw away brushes last night to experiment.

6.
"Clean with denatured alcohol for the shellac." (since i'm using the water base minwax poly). But how? Go outside and dump it on, rub it in and it's eventually clean?

New Question:
Speaking of the Polycrylic, I can use that over the shellac if I'm trying the one with two coats of shellac?

7. When I pour the shellac in the jar..i'm assuming any leftover needs to be disposed. How? Let it dry out?

We must have posted around the same time.

Cool you answered my one question before I even asked!

Thanks for the link I'll check it out then!

Time out!

Why am I using the shellac again? The sanding sealer was originally mentioned by the Merillatl guy and I'm not using their clearcoat.

Can I just stain and apply the polycrylic?

Wouldn't I need more than one coat of poly for protection?

Hoping you see this in the next two hours.

Yikes - i gotta go (have my coat on, I don't know why I checked back after emailing Y about DD's dance class tomorrow).

Merillat mentioned sanding sealer that is only used when sanding soft woods - it stiffens the wood fibers so you can sand smoother. Not usually used on oak.

Sealcoat is a "sanding sealer" b/c it can be used that way but really I don't want you to sand the veneer much at all. I am telling you to use it (if you want) b/c I found it made the oak a little smoother w/o totally filling in the grain like a grain filler, and it is harder than poly, will make the finish more durable than poly alone w/o putting on lots of thick (multiple thin coats) poly. you thin (and clean) shellac with denatured alcohol. You can let excess dry in container and then throw it out. Rags can be thrown out (in small quantities) when thoroughly dry. Sealed in water you'd have to check with town about hazardous waste (same with leftover stain, paint). That's why I have multiple cans sitting in my garage LOL.

Clean the shellac brush by pouring alcohol into clean PB jar, swishing the brush around - you can pour the cloudy shellac into your metal can with lots of water for disposal, or pour it into another container and let it evaporate. Pour more alcohol into jar, swish until clear. then wash brush in mild soap and water, hang bristles down to dry. It may dry a *little* stiff, but you should be able to soften it by flexing bristles with your hand. if they "crack" rather than flex, you've still got shellac in the brush and need to clean with alcohol again.

you *can* just stain and apply the polycrylic if you want to, straight out of the can I'd do 2-3 coats (which may end up looking plasticky but you can try wiping off the last coat like I did on my island trim), if you use the wipeon stuff you'll need 6 coats minimum, and you're *supposed* to sand b/t coats to get it to stick so I'm really leary of telling you to sand that much.

You can do 1 coat of regular Sealcoat over stain, sand *lightly*, then 2 coats rolled on poly (barely sand b/t coats). That *should* be enough protection - at least until you have kids and they kick their feet against the island LOL.

I'll check back after 1 pm.

Thank you again Ajsmama! I think I can actually do this. lol

I wish I would've called the supplier yesterday I could've saved myself some frustration. I emailed Merillat back this morning asking if I could use the sealer over an oil based stain. I just wanted to see what he'd say. The guy was half smart in the email and said I basically needed to take whatever I was working on in to the supplier so they can provide the materials I need (sandpaper, cheese cloth, sanding sealer) to complete the job. They they can't see my project so they can't help.
He doesn't need to see anything to answer that question.

Anyhow, the supplier guy was very nice. I explained what happened and he said he would give me a refund. I think I heard him say the word credit at one point and I hope not but I'm sure. There's always other odds and ends I could pick up if I had to. It's better than being stuck with the sealer. He took my number and said he would call me back. He was going to talk to someone about the refund/credit and also ask around if anyone knew what the issue might be. At this point I don't even want to try anything else other than the instructions you gave me. I get too overwhelmed.

I'm heading out in a bit to pick up that stuff. I was hoping to get a call back before then because if they want to give me a credit and they have some of the stuff I need there, that would make sense.

They put the money back on my card. :) That guy was so nice an apologetic. They also don't want the sealer back. Not sure what I'm going to do with it but it's still mine and it saved me a trip.

I'm off to buy stuff.

I'm glad they gave you a refund. Can I buy the Merillat stuff from you (depends on shipping cost)? I have a bunch of crown molding for my kitchen I have to do eventually (been sitting in my DR for a year waiting to be stained), I could try that rather than buying more shellac and/or poly (may still use shellac if I don't like the clearcoat alone over my stain).

Hey Ajsmama! I would like to try the sealer on the stain just to see what it looks like but I don't think the sheen is going to match. I didn't think you could apply a water based sealer over an oil based stain for some reason. My head was thinking oil with oil, water with water. Odds are I'm not going to use it and if that's the case and you want it, you can have it. I'm not sure what the shipping would be but could find out before hand.

I bought a can of the Polycrylic. I see on minwax's site there's also a water based oil modified poly and the Wipe On Poly also comes in a water base. I was thinking the Polycrylic was the only water based one. If it's going to show brush marks I probably should go with a wipe on poly. ?? As far as durability do you think any is better or did you say you liked the wipe on because of the application? My one coworker said he likes the wipe on too.

Shee, on our stair rail, I applied oil-base stain and then Wipe On Poly (water based). Just make sure the stain has absorbed in well and dried. I'd give it at least 24 hrs. Stair rail has been there abt 5 yrs., and no sign of wear where we've put our hands at the top of it as we go up or down stairs. Easy to work with, too.

You can't apply a water based finish over an oilbased stain but that's the beauty of the shellac in between - anything sticks to it and it sticks to anything. So if you want to use the oilbased stain and the water-based Mohawk stuff or Polycrylic, you can.

The only problem with the Wipeon stuff is that it's so thin you will need multiple coats as I said and you're supposed to sand in between so you have to be really careful not to sand through to each coat, and you have to wipe with mineral spirits (tack) after sanding to get the dust off, so it's more dangerous with veneer and more timeconsuming too.

I don't know what the water based oil modified is - can't say that I've seen it.

Moonshadow - Thank you for the feedback!

Ajsmama - I don't know what I was thinking about the sealer earlier. My head is half spinning from all this info. I don't want the sealer so if you email me where you're at I'll find out how much the shipping would be. I wouldn't think it would cost too much.

I thought the polycrylic says you can use it on the oil based to. Or were you talking about water based in general? Good to know about the shellac! I need to get that yet. They only had gallons. I know another Lowes had the quarts (called) but I didn't get over tonight with traffic and all.

Online I saw the wipe on said three coats so I was thinking maybe it would be ok. I keep forgetting about the veneer and sanding. I don't even know how much I can get away with yet.

Water based oil modified just sounds like a bad thing to me. lol I'll stay away from that one.

I'll keep you posted.