IMHO, stained trim always looks, and is, far more upscale than painted trim

I still think that depends upon the thickness of the trim. Thin trim will always look somewhat builder's grade; no matter if it's painted or stained.

In our area (Oklahoma) starter homes have a combination of painted/stained trim. They ALL look cheap because the builders use thin profile moldings.

I agree that super-upscale homes look smashing with stained trim, but they use a MUCH thicker profile.

Allison's house speaks for the difference between spectacular wood trim and the usual stuff of today.

bevangel,
We paid more in our new construction to have painted woodwork because even though the trim is paint grade and less expensive, the labor is more involved with painted woodwork. It needs to be primed, sanded and coated a number of times, caulked, and nail holes filled and covered carefully. Paint is trickier to apply correctly too. Ours was hand-brushed and took months to complete. I know it can also be sprayed on, and I'm not sure if that is less expensive or not.

Jan

Here are some examples with white woodwork that might help convince him (and crown too, which shows in the lr :) I noticed some paint swatches on the wall so painted also. Wood doesn't paint well in virtuals, so they get a a bit funky (uneven and glowy), but these aren't too bad. I think you can get the effect.

I realize the chocolate is probably too dark, I just liked it!

So, is this your final table fixture? Not the dark finish we were winding down to?

Beautiful old wide hardwood trim with patina? Save it. Modern thin polyurethaned trim? Leave it if you want, but by no means is it the kind of wood it would be a sin to paint over. A house built in the '90s generally isn't going to stand the test of time to make it historically significant anyway.

We used to own a house with all stained woodwork -- it was an old house and the trim was very nice. One room was painted -- the bathroom. It looked fine, although I had to nod along with the poster above who mentioned that painted wood is more susceptible to dings and chips that aren't easy to fix. But having one painted trim room wasn't odd at all.

I think we've bandied about terms like "nice", "old" too many times. Just because it's oak, maple, "hardwood" doesn't mean that the woodwork is anything particularly special.

Historically, PAINT was the sign of wealth and prosperity. Believe it or not! The homes of the wealthy in colonial America were full of detailed woodwork, but it was nearly always PAINTED. It was painted in colors that were expensive to mix or it was PAINTED to look like a more expensive material (marble, or finely faux grained to look like mahogany or the wood of vogue). The Federal period was full of faux work, and the Victorians were equally savvy about faux work. Sadly, much of finest faux work has been stripped away to reveal THE WOOD. And thus was born the myth of "wood".

I am not trying to be mean, but when I look at Cathrugg's woodwork I see nothing very special, at all. There are no windowsills, there is no detail at the corners of the woodwork on either the windows or the door casings, the mopboards are minimal and lack detail at the the juncture of the door casings. The muntins of the windows are white (vinyl?). So it's "oak"... .

Let me assure you, it takes A LOT more work to paint woodwork well than it does to stain it.

Great job squirrel ..I like the white trim!

cathrugg
can't wait to hear if you and hubby likes it!

Bungalow ..lol!! Dont have a heat attack!! The original wood was very soft, had lots of dings and scratches .. I love it white, has a very classic look to it. Plus I was able to wood fill all the imperfections, so it actually looks "cleaner" Ree

That was another status symbol of wealth -- being able to hire all the laborers for detail and adornment. The more work that was done, the richer your symbol and higher your status. So painted mouldings and specialized faux finishes would boast of labor-intensive work having been done on the house.

Thanks, Ree :) So do I. Can't wait till she pops back in!

Cath, also remind him that adding crown moulding is a real value-added detail :) and makes the house so much prettier and finished looking!

Bingo!

And wood was cheaper than the talents of itinerant craftsmen.

In earlier times it was easier to mill/shape the softwoods than hardwoods. After the advent of water/steam power the difficulty was greatly reduced. And then it became more a question of what type of wood was most locally available... clearly, regional differences gave rise to the common use of different sorts of woods in different geographic areas.

omg you guys!!! first off, squirrelheaven, you ROCK! i am so excited with your photoshopping!!! i didn't realize i gave you such an old picture until i saw your mockups! the kitchen right now is painted sw blonde which does look ok with the trim (ok enough i mean lol).

i can't believe i have 40 responses to my thread, i am so excited. i have to go eat dinner with DH but will be back to read all of them personally.

i showed him the pics and he just stared and then stared at me (not sure if it's a good thing or a bad thing yet!!!)

thank you all so much!!! bbiab!

I'd wanted to do the arched window, with the white windows you already have.

In the second pic, the mouldings have been beefed up, enhancing your arched window -- although you'd have to check that out with the grids you have, whether it would look funny with the very narrow grids. Probably done all the time though!

{{gwi:1578833}}

Do you think she's alright? ... Maybe dh has banned her from this site again! after all the lighting help we provided (and he assisted with :) I wonder how many chandies we tried on ...

Don't listen to bevangel. What you've got there is circa 1994 builder-grade trim. Nothing to save or wow over. PAINT IT. RUN, don't walk, to the paint store!

It will look sooo much better!!

You and dh could spread it out to a room a day, getting it done over a few days or weekends.

Maybe he has a den or office he likes to spend time in that can be kept warm and woodsy for him, too.

I am in the EXACT same position you are! (and even a similar room lay out). We took down most of our cheap stained wood trim to paint the walls and dh and I have been talking back and forth on whether to do painted trimwork or stained. Staining and varnishing takes a LOT of work. We still don't have all our doors and windows finished from when we built the house 5 years ago (I've been either pg or nursing since that time so not much help). I'm just having a little trouble convincing myself that it would be okay to paint our solid wood doors (that are identical to yours).

Thanks to Squirrelheaven I think I can show those photoshopped photos to dh and perhaps I can sway him as well. :)
Astrid

I like the trim painted white too. I think I'm going to paint the trim in my dd's room and see how it looks. The stained trim looks horrible with her pretty pink walls.

It does look good painted. Ok, I'm painting mine too! ;)

Squirrel, just so we're comparing apples to apples, can you paint up the walls with complimentary colors on the stained-trim pics?

You guys had me ROTFLMAO with "maybe she's been banned", lololololol. He hasn't done that....yet.... We got carried away last night preparing for our new carpet install for our living room that got cancelled at 7am this morning due to Home Depot cutting the carpet wrong for the match pattern so now it has to be reordered. UGH.

He wants to do one project at a time, even though I am drooling over the pics squirrelheaven did for us.

Anyone have an extra bedroom for when I get divorced and he chooses to live with the honey oak?!

Also, do we paint the doors or are interior doors cheap "enough" to buy new ones rather than trying to prime and paint????

Thanks ladies for ALL of your comments and suggestions!!

If you paint, does it have to be white? I have seen some rooms lately w/ trim painted in other colors (ivory, cream, etc) with the warmer wall colors like you have that I really liked. Maybe that's a compromise between stained wood and stark white.

Was just going to post the same thing, StraitLover -- maybe he doesn't want a bright white -- maybe a soft creamier or beige-r white would be more appealing to him.

The pre-primed faux wood doors are inexpensive, but if you're going to replace doors and yours are wood, I'd surely stick with the wood. Actually, if they're not wood and you're up to it, real wood doors are a fabulous upgrade! and would be appreciated in a resell. I did the faux ones way back when, and they were a major improvement over the junk that was here, but the real thing would be fabulous!

I somehow missed a couple of these posts. Bungalow, Bungalow, Bung-a-low!?! You are really going to paint yours? lol

So, Cath, which room do you think you'll start with?

(You're welcome!)

I have been mulling over this very decision in my own house!

It is a bit overwhelming looking at all the wood trim in my house, but I've got poplar trim and solid six panel doors that have seen better days - ding/scratch wise.

I think I might start in the master bath....and see how I like it. One question, do I need to sand the wood first? My trim is semi gloss, but my doors are pretty glossy. How do I insure the paint adheres properly? Latex ok? I'm assuming I'll have to prime - but any recommendations on a good primer, trim paint? SW or BM?

No, just kidding. :)

>If you paint, does it have to be white? I have seen some rooms lately w/ trim painted in other colors (ivory, cream, etc) with the warmer wall colors like you have that I really liked.I've seen gorgeous examples of this, too, but I've also seen this turn into dingy- or dirty-looking trim so choose any off-whites wisely! :)

I am ALL about the Powerpoint Presentations to my husband! ;) We are just about to have our trimwork all painted out white next week and I am so excited about it!

We bought a home built in 1994 and there is wood all over the home. It's 3000+ sq ft of wood window trim, doors, door trim and mouldings. Forgive me, but I don't like it at all. It dates the house, makes it darker (and in the Seattle area, you need as much light as you can get) and clashes with my oak floors and maple kitchen cabinets. I have too many different colors going on. The trimwork is shiny and orangy.

We got several bids and picked a contractor. Since we aren't moved in yet (we are among the unfortunate few with 2 mortgages for a while) we are having the work done. It's supposed to take a week to a week and a half. I cannot wait to see the changes because it should be big.

I say got for it! I agree that wood is beautiful, but sometimes it just clashes with the look of your home too. Paint is paint and it can be reversed if wanted later. Good luck! I think that squirrel's photos show how much brighter and prettier your home would look being painted out.

*chants* Paint it! Paint it! Paint it!

We painted our builder grade interior trim and doors and it looks sooooooooo much better. You can prime and paint the doors you have there as well. Depending on the size of the door, the cheapest ones are $30-50 a door. They come primed, but you still have to paint them as well.

It's definately work, but not terrible. I had some trouble w/ sleep and anxiety attacks and painting the doors a trim was my late night therapy. LOL! Isn't that sooooo sad???? I'm glad we did it. Three years later, it's a little scuffed up from three little kids and a big old yellow lab, but it wipes down just fine. I think the white trim in squirrels wonderful virtuals makes your wall colors pop and even makes your furniture stand out more.

I also second the idea that you could go with a color other than bright white. The right ivory might look even better!!! Btw, what color are your kitchen cabinets?? Just curious!!

Although I have ended up painting all the trim in my house, none of it is painted white; the public area is all beigish taupe and the kitchen is that same color mixed with 50/50 white. It does not have a name, I just picked what I wanted when they were mixing and that's what we got.

We did recently, however, paint the exterior and I wish I could remember the color we used as the main trim color; it is beige and gray mixed but very light. In the shade, it is easy to see that it is not white but in full sunlight from a distance it can look white. We painted the other trim charcoal gray (that's the name of the color, not sure the brand) but it looks good with our brick.

So maybe looking at pastel whites instead of builder's trim white is what you should do.

Squirrel---meant to tell you, we went with the black light with the black table, this is the only pic i have (something different is on the wall now too, not that silly wine picture)

Citymom of three--lol @ chanting. I put a picture of my cabinets below too, guess what color. yep that same orange oak lol.

The chandy looks great! Maybe you could use one of the gel glazes that people have been doing here to tone/neutralize the cabinet color a bit, to more on the brown side.

Next project that is! :)

omg squirrel, my DH is only 34 and we are slowly killing him with all these great ideas lol. (notice i said **we**!!!!!)

he's still upset about the carpet getting cancelled today as he worked from home specifically for that.

and i left a benjamin moore sample of stone house on the counter for him to paint a box on the wall in our bedroom *if* he has time lol.

and i asked him to go looking at curtains with me on saturday morning....

maybe i should have said **i** instead of we above lol.

So, did you decide to paint the trim? What are you going to do about your doors? Paint them too?

Astrid

Cathrugg, you can't blame him for not wanting to play if every time you have an idea it means he gets extra work, can you? Are you working along side him? Are you rewarding him for being a good boy, and admiring his skills and work, etc? Or just "thanks, here's your next job?" Behavior that's reinforced tends to increase. That which isn't tends to extinguish, and the reward is always in the eye of the rewardee, not the rewarder. I'm sure you can think of lots of good ways to reward him, and men just beam when you brag on their good work in front of them to your guests, too.

Oceanna, you are too funny. And while I was nodding my head at the start of your sentence, "you can't blame him for not wanting to play if every time you have an idea it means......." until I got to your windup. While your main points about complimenting etc., etc., (Etcetera!!!!) are good, my suggestion was to let him stay home and watch t.v., play some poker with the boys, etc, while you go shop for window treatments, paint colors, etc. Most men don't want to be involved in all of this and letting them off the hook helps make them more amenable to doing a few things for you. Also, for those of us, (Yes, ME!) who want their trim painted ivory, their entryway painted red, and an antique table purchased for the dining room, we can usually get what we want if we just go make the decision. As soon as you start asking your DH HIS opinion about all the little changes you want in your house, he will start thinking it's a joint effort.**

Red

**and of course, it is a joint effort! I find the antique chairs on craigslist, he drives with me 90 miles to load them. I decide I need an ORB ceiling fan to replace the pewter one, and I tell him he needs to install it. I spend all day repainting the kitchen, and he needs to tell me how good I did. Joint effort all the way.

I feel kinda funny answering Oceanna's questions above but out of respect to my husband, I think I should. Yes he is rewarded and yes I brag to my friends and yes I do help and yes he has time with his friends. But I can't go against his wishes on decorating/changing something he specifically doesn't want to change. Yes, I am trying to schmoooze him but I am not going to "bribe" him to change his mind.

I guess I was a bit taken aback by that comment. Sorry if I implied selfishness or if I took anything the wrong way. I was really just trying to have fun in convincing him of how great our house will look with all my GW suggestions.

Cathrugg, I'm with you on trying to get DH to go along with my ideas. 90% of the time, he leaves decorating decisions up to me. If I want to paint the room, he doesn't really care, so if I'm feeling up to it, I'll paint the room, if not, I hire someone! He is not a handy guy nor enjoys doing those tasks. But, for a decision as big as painting all the woodwork - He'd want to be involved in that, but if he did agree, I'd be doing the painting! I'm a perfectionist, and would rather do it myself than stand over his shoulder correcting him! On the other hand, I'm hiring a guy to paint the FR and DR - too high of walls in the FR to deal with and while he's doing that he might as well do the DR too...

Is your hubby interested in decorating/painting? If so, then I'm sure he'll come around - it is a bit overwhelming thinking about painting trim, windows and doors. That's a big job. If he's like my hubby, painting the trim/windows/doors would be like stabbing sharp objects into his eyes!! That would truly be the last thing he'd want to do in his spare time. So, it would never get done if I didn't do it - which is why it isn't done at our house! Too many other projects in front of that - plus even to me, who'd love to have my trim painted, it's an overwhelming task that I keep saying - next spring, next fall, etc...etc..etc..

I would expect him to balk at the idea and have to adjust for some time. Quite some time, lol, no matter who's doing the work :) Sounds like things are going pretty well :) We all remember what a great guy he is and how considerate he is of your ideas (and you of his :) We really took him through some hoops with that chandy :)

Late to the party on this but I just wanted to chime in...we're currently building a custom home and we had to decide months ago if we wanted to do paint grade or stain grade trim. Our builder has used stain grade in his other homes and it looks fabulous. It is definitely the rich, heavy dark wood look.

We decided to go with the paint grade primarily from a budget standpoint but I'm really glad we did. But it's not going to be white white. It will have a glaze on it to warm it up a bit more. Even with this upgraded paint technique, it's still a LOT less expensive than going with the stain grade wood package.

Below are pics of this type of treatment in another home my painter did - a multimillion dollar mansion...

I LOVE the mix of the stain grade and the paint grade. We have stain grade sliding doors with a heavy wood frame that we'll stain to match our wood floors and then have the painted trim around them (similar to the pic below).

I too went back and forth - which looks more upscale (paint or stain???) While the stain can look very luxurious and elegant especially in your mountain / lodge / Park City type homes, I kept reminding myself of my trip to Paris - when I visited Versailles Palace - ALL of the elaborate trim work was painted! ;)

Kaydles ~~

Those pics are really pretty! Good luck with your new home -- how exciting!

Cathrugg ~~

I figured you probably were rewarding him, but thought I'd mention it. This is more about where I'm coming from and not a judgement on you. You see, I teach behavior modification techniques and am a published author in it (in another life). So when someone mentions another being is reluctant/balky about something, the first thing that springs to my head is "more rewards." It's something I try to keep on my mind daily, sometimes hourly -- I have to living with r parrots and 5 dogs, not to mention dealing with the humans in my life. So please take it in that spirit.

Ugghh. Behavior modification is for animal training, and raising yound children. I hate it when someone tries to train or modify an adult (esp me!)

Not that there's anything wrong with the reward system :)

We have stained trim, windows, and doors throughout our house too. Stained trim is an upgrade. Builders use painted MDF trim and doors and vinyl windows in their lower end houses. It's a midwestern thing.

That being said, I have never liked the look of stained, but it's not worth painting it. I've learned to work around it. We have 22 wood doors, 24 wood windows (plus 6 transoms), and countless linear feet of casing and molding. Painting it ourselves (to an professional level) would take us months and months. The only thing worse than orangey wood trim is poorly painted formerly orangey trim. Paying a pro would cost thousands of dollars.
On top of that, stained trim is more expensive and commands a higher price at resale. I know it's not all about resale, but I'm not willing to pay for a remodel that makes my house worth less.

I think it really does depend on the market of the area. If stained trim -- beautiful trim or just builder grade -- is what sells in an area, then painting it might affect resale value, depending on who's looking to buy at the time. On the other hand, if people generally prefer painted trim in a locale, then consideration of a house with stained trimwork would also include an additional time/money investment on many a buyer's part -- if they wanted to feather for themselves, that is :)

I agree, that's a big project. I can't imagine...actually, I can ;)..... what my husband would say if I said I'd like to strip all the woodwork down to natural and stain it. Although, after looking at the photos in Kaydles post, I'm tempted! We've lived in houses with both stained and painted and have liked both. Cathrugg, I hope it works out for you. I do think your woodwork is lovely.

Squirrell, that's a whole 'nother discussion. All sentient beings work for reward all the time -- if we didn't we wouldn't survive, so we're all wired that way. You wanna email on it, I'm game, but it's OT for here.

Oh, I just mean adult-to-adult. I don't like to feel I'm being 'trained' or manipulated -- like a child or animal, so to speak. Well aware of positive and negative reinforcements on behavior in the natural world :)

For what it's worth, I live in pricey south Orange County, CA. I've never ever seen a single house in my LIFE with light stained wood trim or doors. In all my 38 years. I've only seen pictures of them on the internet. :)

Some homes have popped up recently with thick, DARK (nearly black-dark) wood trim. (I like to prowl around model homes...) But never the light, thin trim like so many homes in other parts of the country have.

It just isn't done around here, from the 1 bedroom condos to the 10 million dollar homes. Everyone has painted trim and doors. You might see it in a rustic-style restaurant or something, but never in a home.

Might explain my aversion towards it.

Squirrel ~~

I agree nobody likes being manipulated. It's unethical to manipulate others to our gain and their detriment. But "training" is something that is happening to all of us all the time from both internal and external forces. I'd much rather be around a man who intentionally reinforces my behavior when he likes it and tries to ignore me when he doesn't than one who thinks the way to get what he wants is to throw a temper tantrum and frighten people, and believe me I've known too many of those.

Red ~~

Good point that most men don't enjoy shopping all that much. Maybe it's primative brain stem stuff harking back to the hunter-gatherer thing. I dunno. Sounds like as good an explanation as any.

When I lived in the Atlanta area, we had thick, elaborate wood trim in the house. When we moved in we repainted all of it (oil paint) because the house had sat unsold for a number of years and the paint needed help. I didn't like the white plaint, but when the stain aged to a cream--I loved it! Seeing Kay's pictures reminded me of that house. Never my home you understand--too traditional!

Down here in FL we have no trim around our windows--you would have to nail into cement! I love the contemporary look but it doesn't have the richness of a well-trimmed home.

>I think it really does depend on the market of the area. If stained trim -- beautiful trim or just builder grade -- is what sells in an area, then painting it might affect resale value, depending on who's looking to buy at the time. On the other hand, if people generally prefer painted trim in a locale, then consideration of a house with stained trimwork would also include an additional time/money investment on many a buyer's part -- if they wanted to feather for themselves, that is :)I agree. Our realtor, who is a close friend of the family, was OVER THE MOON when we painted our trim! He had suggested it before we even put in an offer.

>But "training" is something that is happening to all of us all the time from both internal and external forces.Exactly. It's how DH "trained" me to take off my shoes upstairs instead of leaving them in the living room. LOL

I live in So Cal also and stained trim is very unusual, at least from what I've seen, and my former guilty pleasure pre-toddler was going to many open houses! My first real exposure was also here on GW, and I'm so impressed with the stained trim in homes like allison's and kellyeng's that I dreamed of doing the same as part of my entire house remodel.

When I mentioned stained trim and windows to my contractor, however, he looked at me a little strangely - even though we have a very rustic house that would do well with open beams and such. In the end, I opted for painted millwork, since we have very low ceilings and not enough light to get the effect I'm looking for with dark trim. I also wanted to go with more color on the walls, and I prefer neutral walls with stained trim.

I completely understand the DH's exasperation and trying to excite him about "your" project, since we have that going on around here every time I come up with something else we need to do! Many of my projects only require my elbow grease though, so he doesn't give me too hard of a time about it :-) When it's something that only he has the skills for, I tell him that I'd gladly hire it out. That's usually enough to get him motivated, as he hates paying for anything that he's able to do himself, and that he can do better (albeit take much longer) than a contractor would.