I don't think that adding an additional 1/4 cup of the ww flour is going to make the bread too dry. Is this the Classic 100% Whole Wheat recipe? I've made that recipe several times and have not had a problem, but I don't knead on an oiled surface either.

Perhaps you did not mix it long enough in the KA mixer so that the gluten began to form and hold the dough together more? I usually mix until the dough starts to cling to itself and begins to wipe clear the sides of the bowl as it is turned around and around by the dough hook. This usually takes about 5 minutes or more of kneading with the dough hook after switching from the paddle once all the ingredients are mixed together well.

1. Flour measurements in bread are only a good guess due to differences in gluten content from brand to brand and bag to bag, as well as moisture content in the flour from storage. You still need to go by the "feel" of the dough - based on the type of dough you are making.

2. Whole wheat dough IS more sticky, especially if you are using a direct dough method for mixing, rather than a sponge method. When it comes to 100% Whole Wheat Bread, I prefer at least a 2-1/2 hour sponge (even as long as 12 hours). This soaking time allows the gluten to absorb hydration and lightens the loaf.

3. I'm glad to see KA using the oiled surface method. WAY too many people add too much bench flour and it's easy to end up with a whole wheat "brick" because of that. I use a silpat for kneading, which does the same thing, and oil my hands for kneading and handling the flour. If I need to add a little flour I do that early in the kneading, but I'll spend the last half of the kneading time using oiled hands.

When it comes to kneading a sticky dough (rye bread is generally a very sticky dough because of the low-gluten rye flour, as an example), you can knead dough in a gallon freezer-style Zip-Lock bag to maintain a well-hydrated dough. Put in the dough, press out the air, zip the bag shut and knead away from the outside of the bag. You can open the bag to adjust the hydration, if necessary. Turn the bag inside-out and remove the dough. Just don't plan on reusing this bag - it's too messy to clean.

4. I can't judge whether to deflate (punch down) the dough or not, since I don't have the benefit of reading the entire recipe. BUT, I would think it's necessary in most cases, but not all cases. Punching down is where you de-gass it, pull the cooler outside dough to the center of the dough, and the warmer inside dough to the outside. You also redestribute the yeast in the dough. During fermentation yeast tends to "cluster". You don't say if this is a lean dough or an enriched dough, and that could make a difference. Is the dough supposed to be a free-form loaf rather than panned?

5. When using a direct dough method, take your time adding the flour to the liquid. Add a small amount of flour and make sure it's well mixed before adding more. If doing this by hand, you can even stop mixing and let you AND the dough have a rest of a few minutes between new flour additions. The gluten has some time to absorb the hydration during the "rest".

Not sure if there's anything there that will help. I'm sitting down here at 1,225 ft. so there may be some changes needed for high altitude I'm not familiar with. Check with your local County Extension Food Agent for more information.

-Grainlady

I never knead on an oiled surface either, I use my floured countertop.

My need for more or less flour always depends on the weather, the humidity, the bag of flour, it's seldom the same. I just make it by "feel", so if the dough is sticky, I'd add more flour. As Teresa mentioned, I don't think that 1/4 cup is going to make it dry at all.

I've made that same recipe in my bread machine with very good results, but never with a stand mixer, so I can't help you there. I let my machine run through the dough cycle, then deflate the dough, shape into a loaf, put it in the pan and let it rise again, then bake.

Good luck, bread is always an adventure, LOL, but I'm betting it'll be a lot easier once you get accustomed to your new environment and figure out the adjustments.

Annie

Wow, talk about deja vu ! I also bought the whole wheat KA flour the other day and made the recipe on the bag. Granted, its been a few years since i've baked bread, but I had exactly the same outcome that you did. It was sticky. I used my Kitchenaid to mix it. Mine turned out ok... not my best, but I think the pan was too big...Has great flavor though and will try it again.

Thanks Teresa, Grainlady and Annie for your help.
Mad about Mickey, what a coincidence. The first one was certainly not my best either.

Teresa- You answered one of the questions I didn't ask... I wondered if I was supposed to use the paddle then switch to the hook. Do you switch after all ingredients are in I'm guessing? I use my mixer a lot, but for the same few things... cookies, an occasional cake, whipped cream and dog treats. I should probably read the instructions again.

Grainlady - here is the recipe...

2 1/2 teaspoons instant yeast, or 1 packet active dry yeast dissolved in 2 tablespoons water
1 1/3 cups (10 1/2 ounces) water
1/4 cup (1 3/4 ounces) vegetable oil
1/4 cup (3 ounces) honey, molasses, or maple syrup
3 1/2 cups (14 ounces) King Arthur Traditional Whole Wheat Flour
1/4 cup (1 ounce) nonfat dried milk
1 1/4 teaspoons salt

Mixing: In a large bowl, combine all of the ingredients and stir till the dough starts to leave the sides of the bowl. Transfer the dough to a lightly greased surface, oil your hands, and knead it for 6 to 8 minutes, or until it begins to become smooth and supple. (You may also knead this dough in an electric mixer or food processor, or in a bread machine programmed for "dough" or "manual.") Transfer the dough to a lightly greased bowl, cover the bowl, and allow the dough to rise till puffy though not necessarily doubled in bulk, about 60 minutes, depending on the warmth of your kitchen.

Shaping: Transfer the dough to a lightly oiled work surface, and shape it into an 8-inch log. Place the log in a lightly greased 8 1/2 x 4 1/2-inch loaf pan, cover the pan loosely with lightly greased plastic wrap, and allow the bread to rise for about 1 hour, or until it's crowned about 1 inch above the edge of the pan. A finger pressed into the dough should leave a mark that rebounds slowly.

Baking: Bake the bread in a preheated 350F oven for about 40 minutes, tenting it lightly with aluminum foil after 20 minutes. Test it for doneness by removing it from the pan and thumping it on the bottom (it should sound hollow), or measuring its interior temperature with an instant-read thermometer (it should register 190°F at the center of the loaf). Remove the bread from the oven, and cool it on a wire rack before slicing. Store the bread in a plastic bag at room temperature. Yield: 1 loaf, 16 slices.

I think when I made it by hand, I basically did what you were saying. When I tried to strictly follow directions, the dough was too sticky to work with, so I added the flour until I could work with it. I finished kneading with the oil. I didn't punch the dough, but I don't think that hurt much of anything, I only have one spot with a bigger air bubble, so I must have smushed it enough when I shaped it.

I have never tried the sponge, in fact, I had never heard of it before last year when I was thinking about learning to make some different types of bread. I will try that sometime. I was taught how to bake bread by my great aunt when I was in elementary school (early 80's??) I make some here and there, but years go by without making any, so I have to regain the "feel" of it. That's why I posted, I the dough didn't feel right when I followed the directions, and I was second guessing myself. I have also discovered you can learn A LOT from these forums, so I thought it might be educational to ask!

I think I need to re-acquaint myself with bread baking the way I was taught, and then I should try out some other methods. There seems to be a ton of variety out there, and I should learn some of it.

Thank you, and BTW, this loaf did turn out much better than the first one.

Here are some directions for mixing any bread dough recipe in a heavy duty mixer:

1. put yeast and proofing water into mixer bowl; whisk together by hand and let proof

2. fit mixer paddle on

3. add rest of liquid ingredients (i.e., milk, eggs, butter or oil) to yeast and water mixture

4. add half of the flour amount in the recipe and any other dry ingredients

5.turn mixer on to medium speed (#4) and beat 2 minutes

6. reduce speed to low (#1) and add rest of flour 1/4 cup at a time

7. remove paddle and attach dough hook

8. scrape down the sides of the bowl, turn to speed #2, add more flour 1 TB at a time (dough will cling to hook then spread back to sides of bowl)

9. increase speed to #4 and knead for 5 minutes or more, until dough starts to cling to the hook and clean the sides of the bowl as it is turned by the hook; if this doesn't happen after 5-8 minutes, add flour 1 TB at a time until dough cleans the sides of the bowl

10.remove dough to an oiled bowl, cover with a damp towel or plastic wrap or a plastic shower cap-type bowl cover and let rise per recipe.

Note: I usually turn out the dough to a lightly floured counter top and knead just a minute, then drizzle some oil in the mixer bowl, put dough in, turn to coat all sides with the oil, then cover and let rise per the recipe.

A good strong mixer is wonderful for bread making, IMO. These instructions came from Betsy Oppenneer's book on bread making.
Hope this helps!

Teresa

Thanks, Grainlady,
From someone who has had the same sticky frustration with whole wheat and rye dough, I will try to oiled hands tip.

Your posts are frequently very helpful.

Cream