Ahhh - Here are the pictures . . .

OLD:

New:

Upright View:

Pretty, but I'm not sure you're getting the most of the space. It's a spacious kitchen but with both primary work areas in the same spot. Once you add an open dishwasher to the mix and/or need to open the range, it'd be pretty crowded. Is this a one-person kitchen or will it be for multiple-workers?

Generally only one of us does the cooking, but on a rare occassion we throw a couple of others in the mix. Do you think moving the sink or dishwasher would help open the space? I'm not too sure where I would put them, if not on the island (I'm new to this). Also, do you think there is enough cabinet space?

I think its a good start and I see you are going for balanced if not strict symmetry.

What is the space in the bay window? It looks underutilized to me. At the other end, perhaps as a result, the refrigerator crowds the dining area.

Is that another fireplace you have drawn in close to the rear deck access? I don't think that is going to work in real life.

I would try the dining area in the spot of the old dining room and the living area toward the back of the house...there is a lot of "tension" between that sofa and the island.

I have been unsure of how to fill in the bay window area from the start(the window might even move).

The key reason I've laid the room out this way is that the back of the house is open to a cove - this is all about the view. The table is close to the windows so that we can take it all in while eating. (We currently get a show at almost every meal and don't want that to end.) The den area is also open to the view (while getting a view of the TV on the wall next to the stairs).

However, I do agree that there is tension with the sofa and island. Not sure what I've done there.

The fireplace is a bit of a wishlist item that I'm playing with. I'm considering putting the slider/french door over by the table and keeping windows in the den area. Really not sure on windows (and as soon as it warms up I'll need to be as the contractor will be calling).

Do you think that putting the table over where the sofa is will make the path from the hall odd to navigate?

What's the orientation of the house (that is, which windows are east facing?)?

Where's the grocery entrance?

I agree that the fireplace doesn't work there as drawn, but if it were a freestanding tank style that angled out from the corner it would be better, and give you focus on both fireplace and view.

Something to be aware of while filling your drawing is walking space. There isn't at all enough around the table, though there should be enough room if it's shifted.

The window bay might make a great little reading nook or something. It seems a shame to waste it on pantry cupboards.

How many people do you want to seat in the living area?

Are you keeping the formal living room as a living room?

Is a TV going in here? How big? any restrictions on it?

Good questions (I had to sleep before responding) -

The wall I have the cabinets on in the new plan is facing North (with a view of my neighbors house/yard - so windows can be minimal here), the bathroom side is facing west (the waterside of the house), the bay window faces east (an average frontyard) and the remaining wall is south.

The grocery entrance is right in front of the stairs - then turn right through the opening.

The previous formal living room is becoming our formal dining room / reading area. It is too large to be the dining room so we are happy to put a place to quietly go and read there too (it seems like the chair next to the slider is occupied a lot). It will also give us a really ample area when we want to expand the table.

As for the TV - I live in what my son calls "Man's Land", so yes there will be a TV in the greatroom space. A great big TV that right now I'm planning on hanging against the wall with the stairs. I would like to think Superbowl parties could work here. They can watch it from the couch and I can turn to it from the kitchen space if so desired. We have a finished basement where all the toys and games are, so I'm not afraid of sending them to the other TV if I don't want to watch their shows ;o)

For seating in the living area, there are four of us here everyday but my house tends to attract lots of visitors in random group sizes. I guess when my in-laws come with their kids, I would still like to be able to fall into the space easily.

I've never felt that the bay window area was all that special a place to go to (and I don't find the boys drawn there either), so I'm not afraid to use it for functional space. There are so many really nice places to relax in this house that it really pales (a view of the front yard/driveway - or a quiet view of the cove/waterfowl). We also have a great bay window on the same side of the house in the other room, and the built-in seat there is probably enough for one house. I do want to keep windows there, however, because I think they bring a lot of morning light to the space.

Thanks Everybody!

Yes, with a reading area in your dining room you certainly don't need that bay in the kitchen for it. East sun coming in could make it very useful for light for actually reading by (i.e., not looking out window). But not needed.

Is there something specific the walled area on the right of the bay is for? Rather than cabinetry? Does it already exist and is just not on the overview of the original layout? I'm thinking it would open up the kitchen more if the counter ran all the way to the end, there, and a little could come off the cove side of the cabinet run, making the area at the end much more comfortable for the table. Can that even be done? Or do you need those walls?

What's the little tall cabinet by the fridge?

Otherwise, I'm not seeing many issues with the kitchen, but getting the seating right may take more work. I'm thinking that rather than a sofa under the East window, you might think about a built in. A bench or banquette could fit a lot of people, especially floppy teenagers. Start it at the wall by the front door and stop before it interferes with the island, and maybe curve the end to keep it from poking people. That could give you some 12' of seating that wouldn't stick out into the walkway as much as a freestanding sofa (except for the floppy teenager legs). It's good for looking across the room and through to the cove, but not great TV seating, so I think it would be okay to have it firmer seating here (rather than puffy sofa).

I get the point of putting a sofa in front of the TV, but it just seems loose in the room, crowding the island. I keep trying to figure out how to put a curving sofa but it's not helping things. The problem is that the optimum viewing position is right where that awkward sofa is in your picture. You could make it a little closer to the TV to make the island seating possible, but it's basically just plonk in the middle of the room.

So, I'm thinking what you need is one of these clever Italian designs that's a bunch of separate chairs that convert into a sectional. They could then be grouped around the TV, the fire or the view, and rearranged all the time. And make the whole curve thing that seems useful work better. ;)

That would actually work well even with regular chairs, if they're comfy enough without a lot of excess gunk on the arms and back, if you're mostly sit uppers. (With floppy teenagers flopping on the bench).

Thanks Again Plllog! You are really getting me thinking.

The wall area to the right of the bay was something I made up - for a pantry. It isn't there right now and doesn't need to be. I'm definitely thinking that I may need to use this end of the room differently. Perhaps put a sink there? How would this look?

The tall cabinet by the fridge is nothing but cabinet space. I don't know what I'm doing and I'm guessing that I need a lot of cabinets :) If space is an issue then I'll go without one more. But if I take the pantry away I'll probably need to add one to the run? What do you think?

I am not married to the sofa in this shot at all (or any of the furniture or colors of anything)! Really, I'm just trying to get an understanding for what the space will let me do with it once I'm finished. I need to be able to tell the contractors where to run the plumbing and wires, and where I want a window or slider.

Italian designs, eh? Not sure what they are, but I don't mind shopping :)

I totally agree that you need cabinets. Cabinets are key! A walled pantry like you originally drew can cost less to construct than cabinetry, and I only suggested taking them out to move the kitchen down.

The right side of the window bay as you're looking out the window looks like a fine place for a pantry.

You have a nice prospect with good symmetry, but I think the rest of the room might flow a bit better if the whole range wall slides down a little toward the bay. The work triangle in the first plan was nicer, however, and having the fridge on the outside of the working area is more convenient for the table and snackers.

I think if you played with it you could put the fridge back, instead of the tall cabinet in the latest, and slide that whole wall, including the fridge over a foot or more, to open it up closer to the windows.

I'm not fond of the fridge in the new location because it cuts up the counter.

Also, regarding the island, a lot of people prefer a single flat surface as being better for big projects, buffets, etc. The advantage I see to your bar height seating, however, is that people seated there will be able to see the game over the heads of the sofa sitters. It's also a little more visually interesting.

The only sink shouldn't be that far from the stove however. That could be very inconvenient. The window bay also seems a distance for carrying dishes for clean-up. But then it'll be even farther from the new formal dining room. If I were you I'd walk the distances and do some rehearsing before finalizing the plans. Do consider at least a prep sink in the island or on the wall nearer the stove.

I just noticed that you have the aisle marked at 55". That's at the outside width of a nice aisle. You could easily shave that a bit if you need a little more room.

Alternative: Have you tried putting the kitchen functions on the stair wall? That might be a bit stranger coming in from the outside, but it would make it much more accessible to the new dining room. You could still put a lot of the storage on the other end of the room. In fact, maybe do a whole storage wall, some of which is TV and media, and some of which is pantry and overstock. And maybe a china hutch on the eating side. Mix it all up. That could drive some people crazy, when they want separate areas even in a combined room. But well designed they could be well organized and non-overlapping but yet all part of the same area and design. I don't know if this whole plan would work, and I'm too tired to try to draw it, but it's worth looking at.

How about something like this?

I like how the Cleanup Zone is not only separated from the Prep & Cooking Zones, but it is also partially hidden from the new sitting room as well as completely hidden from the front door.

I made the overhang on the island 18" to better match the scale of the island. I agree with Plllog that the island would be more useful if it were all one level...great expanse of workspace for a variety of projects...baking, crafts, wrapping gifts, school work, science fair, etc. [The last 18 montbs our peninsula has been used for 4 science fair projects & innumerable homework & other school projects...it has plenty of room to spread out. As a matter of fact, it's used more for homework & projects than it is for anything else!]

I don't have a problem w/the pantry cabinets breaking up the counterspace. I think they anchor the run like the refrigerator does and also balances the wall. There is a lot of counterspace and the counterspace the pantry cabs replace would actually be space not used much.

Wow, these are great thoughts and the new design is really helping.

First, I guess I was thinking that the right side of the bay window would be our area for phone and mail. Seems like we always need to plop something down and that would be out of sight. A pantry there might work better though.

I'm very torn about the island being single or double levels. On the one hand I love the look and functionality of the single level, on the other the double level might work well with the seating area/view from the hall. Do you feel that having a single level so close to the table is at all redundant?

Is there a guideline as to what space to leave between areas for walking? What would the optimum space between the island and counters be? I would like to keep it small so there is more room for seating, yet large so that I have room to work with others when they come visiting (my Mom and MIL like to take over in the kitchen - maddening).

As for using the wall next to the stairs, I'm avoiding that option as it will increase costs dramatically. Right now the converted garage area has a sunken floor. As we are going to raise that floor, we can put all plubming and wiring in without doing any demo. Only the flooring on the current kitchen needs to be pulled.

I'm not sure that I like the idea of a range hood over the stove. I'm pretty fond of the mantel look for this room, as it has a dual use. I do agree though that the cleanup area out of sight might be a good idea and I have ponder the prep sink. I guess I always thought that it was just an unnecessary luxury, but now see that it might have a real use in this design.

Range Hood...I agree wholeheartedly on the mantle! Since I use MS PowerPoint, I don't have a "mantle" option, so I just draw in rectangles for a hood of some sort. I wasn't sure how wide the mantle was going to be, so I put in the recommended width of a vent hood (at least 6" wider than the cooking surface). :-)

Working aisles...If your kitchen is going to support more than one person working in the kitchen at a time, I strongly recommend (1) the prep sink and (2) at the very least 42" aisles, preferably 48" aisles. 42" will be a little tight especially b/c you lose a few inches of aisle space in front of the range b/c the rang generally sticks out a few inches into the aisle.

Seating...ideally there should be 54" on a seating aisle if there's also a working counter behind it. If not, you can probably get away with 48" or so. Are you thinking of island seating? DR table? The DR table may be tight against the window wall.

Prep sink...no, it's not an unnecessary luxury in your case, it's a key element to make your kitchen function optimally.