Icaris, I can see why your son might think he can get up in your face like that. You can't expect your wife to "defend you". You need to put your son in his place. You didnt say how old he is but Im willing to bet he's in the hormonal teenage years where they think they can "take you". He has crossed the line. It is your responsbility as his dad to show him that. If your wife doesnt back you up, that is another problem that you have to deal with her about. (Not in ear shot of your son). This should be a discussion that you both have.

From the way you described things, it sounds as if your wife is abusive towards you and she is raising a child who will also be abusive. She verbally batters you and he's sees that its ok, because it sounds as if you just stood there and took it.

If this has been the way your marriage has always been, its what your son knows. If you love your wife, and she won't go to counseling for her abuse, perhaps its time for you to go to figure out how to deal with her and your son at this point.

linda117
thank you for your input. and your right about his age. but the problem about putting my son in his place (which i have no problem doing) is that my wife conspires against me when it comes to that. when i try to disapline him, she will back him up. i hardly ever get backed up from her when it comes to him. she tells me to leave him alone, and that, thats enough. wow! some disapline there, go to your room. wow! what a punishment. yeah go to his room where he can play all his games, computer, ect.. i wish i had parents like her when i was growing up.lol.. id get in trouble then just to go to my room..lol.. she just doesn't do anything about it. she defends him even when he is in the wrong. and if she is the wrong and she knows it. she still wont admit to it. i cannot win with them.

Icaris, the bigger problem seems to be with you and your wife. There will never be harmony in the marriage if you both arent on the same page in regard to raising your children.

Kind of off topic but i'm very curious. When my son was less than two years old, he used to talk about his "invisible friend" named Caris. I've never heard the name before and researched it on the internet. I could only find reference to it from the 1700's and always thought, he was seeing a ghost. (we lived in an old house). With your screenname, it made me think of it. Could you tell me if that is your name and where it originates and what it means if you know?

Family counseling---- If your wife refuses to go, go with your son. He is still your son and you need to be able to deal with him regardless of how your wife behaves. She may come around in time if she sees that you are getting the outside help you need in dealing with your boy and the both of you are learning to deal with her.

I think you are focusing on the wrong problem. Yes, the fact that your wife is not backing you up is a problem, but it happens in a lot of families, and it sounds secondary and minor compared to their abusive behavior towards you. I also think that maybe your son is just out of control and that your wife realizes the punishments and such aren't helping, etc... I highly doubt that even if she supported you during these fights, it would really help or change much. She may even be siding with him to try to calm him down or keep the fight from escalating because she's not sure what he will do next. She may be sending him to his room just to make him go away. And, it's only human to want someone to side with you in a fight...it's hard to imagine her telling him to shut up or mind his own business when he's siding with her.

Anyway, you need to talk to your wife about this when he is not around and you are all calm. It does sound like her abusive ways are rubbing off on him, or he may just be going through a tough teenager phase. Regardless, his abuse needs to be addressed and punishments or a way of handling needs to be agreed on and decided upon. Hopefully, you can work together during peaceful times to come to an agreement.

I'm not sure about your relationship with your wife. There have been so many posts lately about abuse I can't keep them straight. But, if this has been a constant thing in your marriage not an edgy-menopause thing or something, then it's probably not going to easily change. You may want to talk to someone or brush up on emotional abuse (lots of books out there--some even for abused men) to see what you are dealing with and how best to handle your specific situation.

ps. "Loser" isn't that bad. Don't take it so personally. I've heard teenages come up with a lot worse to describe thier parents.

linda117,
i have no problem telling you everything about my name and its history its a bit of a long story. do you have a different email adress i can send it to, its a bit personal, but if you don't i understand, and ill post it here.

linda117
sorry i realize that you might want to keep your email private so i will leave mine. anyone with any question please feel free to email me.
icaris_76@yahoo.com

icaris, I knew a couple that went through something similar. They went to family counseling. It turned out that the wife was angry because she felt as though her husband did not listen and was not attentive to her. She claimed that she tried to talk to him about it to no avail. After years of her anger building and building, she involved her children, similar to what your wife is doing to your son.

I am no saying that this is your situation, but something has obviously happened to make your wife dislike you so much. Once you can get to the root of her anger, you should be able to start from there. Good luck to you.

cupojoe

I wish i could say, "hey we need family counseling" but my wife sees that everything is my fault and she does nothing wrong. so i get accused for everything going wrong in both my sons life and hers. i don't even have to be there for it happen, and its still my fault. so sugestion counseling would end up to being somthing i started. I cannot win.
its like tell a wall thats blue thats its actually red. something are just set in stone and cannot be chizzled away.

Next time your son threatens you like that,call the cops on him. That's right. They will lock him in a juvinille place,and the ones where I live are terrible.That ought to change his macho attitude quite a bit!

Or,quit buying your wife and son everything they want! Why do they deserve all that stuff if they are treating you like crap??? Threaten to leave them and make them pay for their own stuff!
Dont put up with this Anymore! You are a person and you deserve respect!

Icaris, so all your taking care of yourself (other thread) is not having the desired effect on your wife. Thats a shame.

Has your family situation always been this way, or has it just happened recently ?

Your wife is doing the wrong thing by undermining your authority in front of your son.

But, there is probably something else going on with your wife. She sounds like a woman who has some built up resentment against you ! Can you address that issue with her ?

I suggest you sit down together, make her a cup of coffee, and ask her to tell you how she feels. Stay calm, expect some loaded bullets to be lobbed your way, and hear what is on her mind. I think then you will really get to the bottom of the issue.

You can then have your turn, and ask her to please support you when discipline issues come up with your son. Say this is very important you you.

I would also say to you, that no matter what, your relationship with your son is between you and him and I think at this point you need to work on that together, and move your wife's attitude out of the picture. Your son needs your gentle discipline, he needs boundaries, and guidance. Talk, talk and talk to him, about his day, and what he is up to. Go for a walk with him, tell him you love him, give him a hug. He is probably in a real tourmoil about what is going on between you and his mum. Your role in his life is so important.

I wish you all the best with your situation, with skilled communication, I am sure things will improve for you.

Let us know how it goes.

Popi

Icaris,
The tone of one of your recent emails is worrying. Be careful not to fall into the trap of not doing anything because you're sure it wont help.

"I wish i could say, "hey we need family counseling" but my wife sees that everything is my fault and she does nothing wrong. so i get accused for everything going wrong in both my sons life and hers. i don't even have to be there for it happen, and its still my fault. so sugestion counseling would end up to being somthing i started. I cannot win. "

Try counselling anyway for your own sake. Go by yourself. If nothing else you will get some support and hopefully you will learn some techniques for dealing with the abusive people you live with. It wont change your wife and son; it can help you change yourself. If they see you making positive changes and refusing to have the same pointless battles, they might get inspired to join you. Assuming, that is, that they want to improve the relationship. Have you asked them? Maybe they don't see the problems you do.

Well, as im reading, all of you have such great input on what the actions i should take, but im not sure everyone understands the situation, i can suggest counseling and some other types of help we can get, but it doesn't seem to matter, because if i suggest it, she will say "your right YOU do need it." just like the other day she was telling me that i needed to back off on our son, MY argueing is affecting him, as if she never done anything wrong, its not just my argueing, its hers too. but she doesn't see it. that way, another thing, our son backing her up in the situation of our argueing she doesn't see anything wrong with that, even though she knows our son is in the wrong, and for her to admit that shes wrong would crush the whole essence of her being right all the time and she couldn't live that down.
Thats why i say im in a NO WIN situation anymore. I can admit when im wrong, she cannot, even if she knows she is. and that alone is affecting me. Bottom line, no matter what happens, between anyone in our family, no matter whos fault it is, SHE SEES THAT SHE DOES NO WRONG no matter what, and the blame goes to me.
I rather just not even talk to her anymore, its pointless, i can't win. she is also emotionalless, i mean that to the extreme, she has no emotion anymore, but she also doesn't see that as affecting our lives. In fact her quote was " i don't have to have emotion to show that i care about someone" if im not mistaken, isn't caring an emotion. Im so frustrated, and i honestly don't know what else i can do. In her eyes, im root of the problems.

But, I think what some people may be suggesting is that you do need conseling. It doesn't matter who is right or wrong or that she blames you and is emotionless. You need counseling for yourself to know how to think and how handle your situation with her. Go without her...it will probably be better and help you sort out things. Again, you do not need her to go with you.

You do seem to be in a no win situation, but you have no real control over what you wife does or thinks, only what you can do or think. Obviously, it sounds like you are both blaming each other for everything wrong in your relationship...she thinks you are to blame and you think she is. It seems like no one even wants to give an inch. Go to counseling yourself...it is not about who is wrong or right...it is about you making a choice trying to help your marriage. If you don't want to, that's your call, but don't say she is the only one not willing to try.

Tricky situation for your Icaris.

I really think you have no alternative, but to concentrate on yourself, working out ways you can deal with this person.

Doesn't sound like she will change, but you could change how you react to situation.

It will make you a stronger person, and more capable of dealing with possible tough times to come, because you really dont want to live this forever, do you ?

Has she always been like this ?

Popi

To answer your original question, yep, I think your family is history. Sounds pretty awful, doesn't it? Posters have suggested therapy, but you've already answered for your wife. How do you know she'll say that. And if you REALLY want to save your family, you wouldn't be asking us lay people. Your family needs help and if you truly want to save it, get counseling--either as a family or go by yourself.

To answer your original question, yep, I think your family is history. Sounds pretty awful, doesn't it? Posters have suggested therapy, but you've already answered for your wife. How do you know she'll say that. And if you REALLY want to save your family, you wouldn't be asking us lay people. Your family needs help and if you truly want to save it, get counseling--either as a family or go by yourself.

Its so easy to be harsh when its a nameless, faceless place. I thought this forum was all about getting peoples ideas, suggestions and help.

well last night we talked, i can say it wasn't pleasantly, but we talked, i flat out told her, "look, what do you want me to do?" her response "we need counseling" so theres, my answer, i didn't suggest it, because i know i would have been in the wrong in her eyes, so i let her make that discision. so we are looking for a marriage counseler, and going to start with that. i just hope this works, because if it doesn't, well then the only other alternative, is divorce, because i can't deal with this anymore. we've tried everything else but this, so i hope this works.
wish me luck...lol...

Best wishes, Icaris. I am glad the counseling was her idea.

Icaris

That is a step in the right direction, isn't it ?

And it was her idea !

Maybe things will improve now.

All the best to you, keep up that sense of humour, and a positive frame of mind.

Take care.
Popi

I'm glad you are getting the help your family needs to be happy. Sometimes we assume our spouse will answer differently than they really do. Good luck to all of you!