You can continue your story here Stray...

* Posted by straycat_wandering (My Page) on
Sat, Feb 7, 09 at 15:02

Over 10 years ago I had to have a double mastectomy. When they originally went in there were not sure if it was cancer-turned out both breasts were completely full of pre-cancer. They removed all of the tissue (left my nipples-but scraped them). I had a friend who had also had to have this done and 2 year later she died from cancer of the ovaries.
When I met my husband (we've been married less than 2 years) I was having problems with them leaking-common after about 10 years, and knew they would have to be replaced. WE married and he picked the surgeon (works with surgeons so said he knew the best). I had the surgery and I feel they look and feel better. This was a year ago this month. The only comments he has EVER made are painful. Such as; well you know you have a dent in this side, they are not the same side, they should have more projection, he should have done this... I think he could have done better....never one kind loving word. I have
cried and cried and begged him for one kind word. Never. I have even explained to him that if he could look at me through the eyes of love maybe he would be able to say some thing nice. I know in the past relationships he had breasts are a biggie for him-bit I guess I didn't realize how big.
I now cannot find it within my soul to have a physical relationship with him. Because when he does touch me (not very often) it just reminds me of what he has said and how he reacts to me when he walks in and I have my bra off. I feel ugly and hurt. Today he just left mad-because he says he doesn't understand why I don't want to have a physical relationship-after I explained to him how I feel and said I only think about MY feelings. Am I being unfair. Should I work at displacing my pain -what to do? I feel like I am old and ugly and just an object to take care of a need when he has one. (which is maybe once a month and it didn't start out that way)...what to do or think? Any thought's...

Thank you dotz and popi!

Could you drag his sorry butt to counseling?

Because his behavior is very hurtful -- especially since you've told him how his comments make you feel. I think most women would feel exactly as you do about his comments, and a half-way decent counselor will tell him so.

If he won't go, ask him how he would feel if you made similar comments about his sensitive areas. That you wish it could be just a little bit thicker / longer / harder / straighter, etc. He WON'T be happy, but it sure ought to get his attention.

I would feel so sensitive if this happened to me. The trauma of having the cancer, the trauma of losing a part of my body, the trauma of rebuilding that part of my body...

The thing is there is nothing you can do to make your body fit his ideal. We are in our bodies, for better or worse. There is no escape.

Have you thought of why he would say such harmful, cruel, unloving, horrible things to you? Your breasts are a part of you. This is not something to analytically pick apart as if it were a new washing machine "well, the spin cycle could be a little faster"...

We all could be more beautiful, more ideal. I'm sure you could think of things to pick apart about him. I'm with Sweeby. Drag his sorry butt to counsling. If he won't go... tell him you want to be beautiful for him, and you want to find him sexy. And his comments do not make you think of him as sexy.

My first thought is to put myself in your position. As women we are all at potential risk of developing cancer of the breast. My mother has it and it was caught early. Only the small lump was removed and lymph nodes. She was in her late 70's when it was discovered.

I'm hoping that your recovery is going well. It it so wonderful that you were able to have reconstructive surgery.

Giving thought to your DH's behavior and comments leads me to the conclusion that DH lacks Empathy. Not just for the trauma you went thru with surgery and loss of your breasts but for your feelings as well. I don't have to work very hard to imagine the fear you must have been in as you went thru the process of accepting the diagnosis, surgery, recovery and then the go ahead for reconstruction. You must have been terrified and anxious and for that I am truly sorry. If you needed a hand to hold then there are many extended out to you here.

I am sorry that you did not have the loving support needed as you passed thru those times. Especially, from one who should have been there for you.

I don't know if this fellow will ever change but Hope he does for your sake if you are going to stick it out with him.

Empathy is the ability to put yourself in another person's shoes. It resides within the Heart and Soul of a person.

Good Luck and Much Hope for Success in Your Continuing Recovery.

Sweeby has good ideas, and kinder than I would be. In your shoes I'd kick his sorry a$$ to the curb. Better to live alone and love yourself than live with someone who makes you feel so unhappy. Buy him one of those blow-up dolls, he can tell that all its shortcomings and it has no feelings to hurt. But if he wants a real woman, unless he's paying her by the hour, he has to be nice to her.

Are you thinking of leaving your husband Stray? Sounds even worse than lack of empathy, sounds like outright cruelty, given what you ve been thru..Does he have any redeeming qualities? Do you love him? Is this worth salvaging, in your opinion? After one and a half years of Marriage, my seemingly healthy DH, who had a fabulous athletic build had a massive heart attack, I almost lost him..He has lost all his muscle mass, and has a huge scar and a pacemaker, and I dont see him in the same way anymore either......... I see MORE.....The way he soldiered thru with the surgeries, the pain, his worry about what he couldnt do for me anymore..I see a warrior..Thats what I think you mean by seeing thru the eyes of love...I have nothing but respect and admiration, and even more love for his battered body..If you DH cant see that, then I would think it would be time for you to re evalute your marriage...The best to you

I'm wondering if perhaps he views your breasts more 'objectively' now. I'll try to explain --

Given that he helped pick the surgeon to do your reconstruction work, I'm wondering if he now views your breasts as 'examples of workmanship' rather than as an intimate part of you. If perhaps he would never dream or criticizing 'original equipment' -- but feels free to do so because of the particular circumstances.

I'm not agreeing with him, and certainly not excusing him -- but to some extent, I can understand that point of view. I've seen (well, not seen, but heard several stories of) women doing exactly that same thing when they've had breast augmentations. It seems that for those women at least, having surgery took their breasts out of the 'private domain' and into the 'public domain.' Could it be that he now views your breasts as 'they' rather than 'you'? As somehow separate?

Do you think that might be part of it Straycats?

Incredible to me that any man -- or woman -- would say such things to anyone! What a jerk! I don't know if such cruelty is possible to overcome.

Only parallel I can imagine would be the onset of ED -- which is common as nails among older men -- or, perhaps, some manner of accident resulting in mutilation and reconstruction for him. What would his reaction be to similarly cruel statements from you about such a circumstance?

You've described crushing insensitivity from one spouse to another.

Thank you all. I don't think there is anything to salvage in this marriage. I have asked and pleaded for a kind word and I can't ever see myself subjecting my body to more cruelty by trying to have a normal (sexual) relationship with him.
Redeeming qualities-I'm sorry but I can't find any...everything he does is about him and for him. I called a counselor today we have seen in the past that didn't work on this -even though I told her how I felt...and she told him she thought he should move out. He said he would-but get this-he wants me to pay for everything for him. Get him set up in an apt., and pay someone to move his stuff. I talked to my Dad (who has witnessed the painful things he has said to me) and he said it would be cheaper and more productive to file for divorce. I am sure he is right. I want to feel attractive and loved, or be alone. Not to face his looks when he walks in on me. Attractive on the inside because that is where I hurt. I hope some day I will know what it feels like to be loved for who I am not what someone wants on the outside. Cancer is scary enough and now I have to (or I should say the doctor wants me to have another mammogram- so this fear is forever) and I don't think I can endear anything else with someone who sees me as an object.
I have thought about putting him down as he does me-but you know I just can't do that to someone...I just can't...

All the best to you, sweetheart. I can't imagine living with such a prick as you've described.

Two wrongs dont make a right Stray..Would be non pro ductive, immature act to put him, or his manhood down...Take what you can use and leave the rest......

Sounds like a good decision Straycats --

And as to putting him down where it counts, wait until after the divorce, then if you still want to -- give 'im both barrels! I say that having endured similar hurtful comments from my Ex that I won't go into detail about, and having not retaliated with nasty (but true) comments in return. 15 years later, I wish I had (and I'm not that type of person)... But choose your timing.

Thank you all. I am also afraid of him. He yells and threatens me. My father even witnessed it when he was here. I am going to try and see an attorney tomorrow and if I can also get a restraining order. He has shoved me in the past and I went flying. I'm afraid of he starts hitting me he won't stop...I am going to try and keep things as calm as possible tonight. He left a couple of hours ago and said he was going to eat. So I don't know what to expect from him next.

Stray, Just get some where safe, PLEASE....I m wondering if he sees your breasts objectively???? WHAT in the world are you trying to DO to this poor woman????? Stray, do what you need to do NOW....Stop the insanity and just go to a place where you ll feel safe and sort this out OMG!!! Do not get the drift of some of these posts, overreaction not unwarranted if you are afraid of him...go now....

Stray, if he's being abusive this is more than a little mean, it's dangerous. Go to a friends, go to your parents. Please do not live in fear. As I'm sure you know, life is short and too valuable to be spent with this kind of person.

Please let us know when you are somewhere safe.

"He yells and threatens me...attorney tomorrow...get a restraining order.... He has shoved me in the past and I went flying. I'm afraid of he starts hitting me he won't stop..."

Can't imagine why your post focused only on his callous comments when you've got this going on. Suspect your responses were skewed because of it. Did I miss something?

For heaven's sake get out of there! Right now. Immediately. Grab the keys and go. You're living with a dangerous man.

Yes, Stray, Asolo said it much clearer than I did...Meant to say What are you doing to this poor woman you B......D, It doesnt matter how he sees your breasts, objectively, or otherwise, this is so much worse.Be safe...

Clearly, this new information about his violence and general nastiness makes my whole 'objectivity' question completely irrelevent.

Please ignore...

Straycat seems to be caught up into a relationship with a person who seems to be exhibiting many of the personality traits of the "Dark Triad". A combination of a number of undesirable traits:

"...This is where the Dark Triad comes in. The Dark Triad of personality represents those who make their partners miserable. The Dark Triad is Psychopathy, Narcissism and Machiavellianism."....

"Why would an unloving person even want a mate? The answer is power."
(quotes above from article link below)

The description of DH is unloving, cruel and callous without a precipitating factor. He desires to rule and control. His remarks are disparaging and exhibits the ability to react with violence.

I did a search on the "Dark Triad" and came up with the following article. Very interesting. Explains how Loving Women wind up being duped into relationships with this type of person.

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/12/01/choosing-a-love-partner-beware-of-the-dark-triad/

did you get out stray? let us know.