I can really relate to your post -- both sides of it.

I have been in the position where I was unhappy for a long time, then somehow got a boost of energy, lost weight, and made A BUNCH of changes, including ending my marriage. That determination was a powerful force in changing my entire life. And to me, it sounds like your wife is in a similar place, needing to change EVERYTHING, which unfortunatly, includes you.

Now my Ex was an abusive Jerk, but you sound like a really nice guy. And if you really are a nice guy, it would be a shame for your wife to throw you out along with her 'fat clothes' just because you happened to be part of a life she no longer wants. After all, you have children and a family to consider. And while dating can be fun for a while, the whole long-term point of dating (for most of us anyway) is to find a good guy to settle down with and raise a family. And she's got that!

It's good that she's agreed to counseling, but if her mind's made up, it may not do any good. Unless you can convince her that she can throw away her old marriage and have a new, exciting relationship without changing husbands. (How is your appearance? Do you work out? Take care of yourself?) Whatever positive changes you can make -- pretend you were going to be dating again, and make yourself a more attractive 'catch'.

The other thing I'd do is NOT agree to move out and NOT agree to "let" her date. (It sounds like you may have been a little too accomodating in the past, and a little more macho-jerk might be in order.) If she wants to throw away her marriage, make the choice a tougher one. If it means leaving her home and children, that might be enough to turn the tide.

Good luck --

IMHO...could be wrong...and the usual disclaimers, but.....

Your wife is longing for a return of dominance. That's what she's seeking via all this nonsense. If you want her, take her and keep her.

If it doesn't work. At least keep your house and kids. If she wants to wander, you won't be able to prevent her. But you WILL be able to secure your home for yourself and your children.

My bet is that she will respond. Be bold. There's nothing to lose now. She's been to too many seminars. She's forgotten how good she's got it. My guess is that a bunch of blank-blanks have her convinced she "deserves" mo/betta. Take charge now or you'll lose it.

I can't help but picture you scratching something, Asolo -- (Armpits, privates, backside)
Seriously, that was a pretty retro thing to say.

But -
But --
But as much as I hate to admit it, there's a grain of truth in what Asolo's saying. A man who placidly 'takes' what this woman is dishing out is not the kind of man who inspires her passion and makes her want to stay with him. She's gone through a long period where she had no self-esteem. No confidence. No Mojo. She's got that back now. And now you need to be a man worthy of her new confident, powerful, sexy persona. Not Mr. Safe Doormat who was good enough for the fat her.

Now is the time to make her want to keep you. Talk to your counselor about this and get his/her take on this to decide exactly what to do.

This post was kinda hard to read.I went through something similar that your wife went through a couple months ago after being married for 12 years.However,I was never "fat" as you say your wife was,just average.But after alot of exercise I got incredibly fit and began receiving all sorts of attention.
After 12 years of being with someone (which let's face it,gets a little "familar"),and him mostly only caring about football and nascar,the attention I was getting was shocking and seemed to fill a void I had.Keep in mind,I was not setting out to get this attention,I got in shape because it made me feel good physically,and men just seemed to flock to me afterwards.
Anyways,I also wanted to us to see other people.My husband felt the same as you,completely against it.
It never happend of course.And I NEVER cheated (before everyone jumps on me for being so horrible)

You had asked::" it is a bit difficult to understand why my wife, with whom I am very much in love, has a desire to be rid of the relationship."

And all I can say is that women go through mid-life crisis' too.You all arent the only ones entitled to a new car and a twenty something girlfriend in a sad attempt to try to reclaim your youth.
As women,we get stuck in mommy mode and wife mode,often feeling unattractive and unappreciated.Just your very attitude how your wife "OWES" you for staying with her when she was "fat" says something!
Now she finally feels beautiful and it's possible she just wants to know what else is out there.

If you want to make it work,you are going to have to give her space,but also more attention in ways you probably neglected to before.
I realise this post isnt going to make me popular here,but I'm just telling you like it is.
I gave my husband a second chance and he is more then making up for it.The exprience has actually made us stronger as a couple and more in love then ever because we both APPRECIATE each other now.
My advice is to take a good look at yourself and the relationship.Because it is not all your wife.Her behavior is just a symptom of something else that has been lacking.I hope things work out for you.

iloveexercize, I'm not going to say - you're wrong; I just want to point out that OP seems to be way different that your husband. Not getting enough attention from your husband should not make you want to divorce him (especially if there are kids involved). People seem to be so crazy about freedom and independence nova days, that they are willing to give up the happiness of their children... These are not good reasons to break the marriage (unless there is violence or any kind of abuse involved, which doesn't seem to be in this case).

Positive_growth, sorry I don't have any advice for you, except to fight for your family... and I'm pretty sure you know what to do :)

I never said I wanted to divorce my husband.And I didnt,if you reread my post you'd see that.It was a rough patch we went through where we "TALKED" about seeing other people.

Obviously his wife is the one who WANTS attention or she wouldnt have lost all this weight and is flaunting how "sexy" she looks now.
I never said leaving him for that was right.I think it is best for marriages to stay together.

However,his post points most of the blame at her.And he says repeadedly how he did her a favor by staying with her when she was FAT.
I was just trying to get him (OP) to see that she obviously felt something was missing in her life.Sounded to me like it was attention,since she seems so focused on getting it now...

Confused... call me old fashioned.. but are there really that many married people that talk about seeing other people? sheesh, hopefully my husband would have the good sense to just go ahead and cheat and not torture me with having to openly acknowledge and live with his cheating. You're married... dating others is not an option, period.

Anyway... a part of me thinks there is and has been someone else in the wife's life for a while now. I think possibly she even lost the weight for this someone else. Is there a chance she has a boyfriend already? It helps to know what you're dealing with. If she's not running away from you (you're not abusive, etc), she may be running towards someone in particular.

"but are there really that many married people that talk about seeing other people? "

Happens much more then you realize.People arent happy,yet they dont want to break up for their children's sake.This isnt a perfect 1950's world we live in.Most couples are lucky to stay together 5 years of marriage these days.At least I could say I had 12,that were completely faithful and devoted.Not everyone can say that.
So get off your high horse and stop judging me.At least I'm willing to be honest about my life.I didnt have to tell you guys anything.But I did to try to help someone.

Hun,

Maybe I'm not judging you... I'm judging the practice of married people opening dating... It's called an opinion and like it or not, I can have one on the topic. You personally telling me to get off my high horse is pretty judgemental itself, don't you think?

When someone comes on these boards and talks about their wife wanting to openly date other people... a bell goes off ... I don't think it's right and I have just as much right to voice my opinion. Can't I be trying to help too? I think opening dating others is wrong, very wrong, and I don't think the OP should accept his wife doing it. You're right, this isn't the 50's and women (and men) have a lot of other options open to them nowadays; they don't have to sit back and allow adulterous affairs to go on right in front of their noses.

Funny, how when someone else's opinion is different than yours, they're judging you... but if they agree, it's an opinion. Are you judging the OP and his wife too, or are you just voicing an opinion?

I think wanting to date other people while in a marriage can be a normal thought. I think telling your spouse would be cruel. But more honest than going behind the back and having an affair (AIDS, Herpes... anyone?). The thought of an STD is far more frightening to me than the emotional pain of cheating.

"... I don't think it's right and I have just as much right to voice my opinion. Can't I be trying to help too?"

Of course,but I took it as you being CONDESCENDING to myself,and I tend to have a problem with that.So telling you to get off your high horse is not judgemental at all if I feel I'm defending myself.If you werent trying to condescend to me,then my apologies.

"I think opening dating others is wrong, very wrong, and I don't think the OP should accept his wife doing it."

You are entitled to your opinion,and I NEVER SAID IT WAS RIGHT. I think it is often a last option for some people who are desperate to change something and find some sort of happiness.I have quite a few friends going through this,and I never judged them for it cause it's THEIR life.
After my husband and I went through our problems,we both came to the conclusion we COULDNT do it ourselves.Anyways,I really dont want to turn this thread into a morals issue here.
OP didnt say his wife WAS dating anyone else and he said they are in counseling,so that is good.

And no,I'am not judging OP and his wife.I do think that his sense of entitlement over his wife now that she's "HOT" would definitely put me off though it was me.
Perhaps she knew he thought of her before as "FAT" and it made her feel bad about herself.
How romantic is hearing,"I stayed with you when you were fat so now you have to stay when you're hot too?"
I know OP didnt say that,but the message is there.If I was his wife,that would hurt me.

Well, it looks like "positive growth" got everyone going and then left. What's with that?
Well if your out there I have some ideas you might want to explore with your wife and maybe your counselor.
You said she cannot pinpoint her detachment from your marriage-that is normal. There is no specific event, it's all of the little things that build up, and one day you realize-you no longer care. It's the times when she dressed up, put extra effort into her makeup and hair and you didn't notice. It's the times she hinted for intimacy and you went to sleep. It's the times she need a touch and you were too busy. It's knowing you "thought of her fat" instead of the wonderful person she is inside...that is how loves dies...a woman's cup gets empty and when it does...she looks around. Whether she is fat, skinny, built like a brick house or a bowling ball-she hopes and she prays her husband shes the woman inside the skin and loves every inch of her inside and out. But, when he doesn't she slowly becomes more and more empty and that is when the numbness sets in. It's hard, very hard for that to ever be replaced with love, the trust just isn't there. When that happens it's hard for her to give herself-to the same man.
The after effect is often the same thing you heard from your wife-see other (have sex with other) people. Touche'- she but the love making in the same category as you did. Physical-only physical. See-either fat or thin...same woman-same soul...but that wasn't what the "marriage" was all about. You stayed with her when she was fat-you say, well too bad that's how you saw her. If you'd seen her through the eyes of love how would she have looked? I can tell you-she would have looked the same, but in your bed instead of wanting to be in someone else's...She had needs you didn't meet-so now she is basically gone.
AND you think you did her a favor; staying with her-no she did you a favor staying with you...hoping you would grow up and see her. SEE HER! Now, you see her, but you really don't-you see a woman who has lost 65 pounds and is hot. You are still in the physical stage of a relationship after all these years. Too bad, and to think...you've been married to the SAME woman all these years and you have never SEEN HER.
I hope she finds happiness wherever that may be-she deserves it, every woman does.

Well, I NEVER reply here...but I love what straycat wandering has to say. As someone who was fat and is now slender I know what she says is true.
Thank god my hubby did not have any issues about staying with a fat woman..
It was me who had the problem being fat.
Hope the OP checks in...and hopefully has grown up some.
Karen L

Hi Karen,
I agree completely and I can relate to your story too. I gained 30 or so pounds since meeting my DH, 15 of which are already back off... but I was never so grateful that he never NEVER mentioned it. He's happy I'm losing it and gives encouragement, but he always said it was me he wanted to be with, not my body. It was me who had the issue of being overweight. I think Straycat speaks for all women when she says...

"...Whether she is fat, skinny, built like a brick house or a bowling ball-she hopes and she prays her husband shes the woman inside the skin and loves every inch of her inside and out. But, when he doesn't she slowly becomes more and more empty and that is when the numbness sets in. It's hard, very hard for that to ever be replaced with love, the trust just isn't there. When that happens it's hard for her to give herself-to the same man."

"...You are still in the physical stage of a relationship after all these years. Too bad, and to think...you've been married to the SAME woman all these years and you have never SEEN HER. "

"...If you'd seen her through the eyes of love how would she have looked?"

WOW~WOW~WOW

How many of us have felt invisible/are feeling invisible right now? That Straycat can speak so completely for me, with all of our differences in opinion, says a lot. I think this is one of the core truths. THIS is how a woman (or man) becomes empty. This is the hole through which the love pours to the ground. This is the echo never answered.

I dated this guy once, who told me that his exwife (wife at a time) suggested that she would stay in marriage for the kids' sake as long as she allowed to continue having affairs. apparently it does happen. sounds beyond bizzare.

as about weight, i do not understand why people put so much emphasize on weight issue. so if one is overweight, he/she cannot be trully happy? or loved? so confidence directly variates with weight? why? of course if one is 700lb it is a big deal but other than that why are people so obsessed wiht it?

Hi Finedreams,
I think that overweight people can be happy and loved, and have self confidence. Some of the happiest, most self confident people I've known have been overweight. But for me, I don't feel good if I'm over a certain weight. My clothes don't fit, I don't feel good.

As for DH, he likes me thin as well. Overweight is not sexy to him. Nor is it sexy to me. If he were to put on a bunch of weight that would not be attractive to me. But I love him, and I'd continue to love him despite my preference.

As to your question of why people are so obsessed with weight...

First, do you consider yourself to have a small, medium or large build? Are you in your ideal BMI according to your doctor?

Some people have the genetics to not worry about weight and not consider it an issue. Usually, I'm one of them. But I had a life situation which made it difficult to exercise and I was eating a lot of heavy foods. Boom. All of a sudden I was three sizes larger and not happy with the way I looked. I was happy in life, just wanted to change my eating/exercise habits so that I looked the way I feel comfortable. And, heart disease and diabetes run in my family. Both are exacerbated by being overweight.

Look at the ideals put out by Hollywood and the media and you will see the infatuation with being skinny. Thin people and pretty people get better pay, better mates, better jobs. It's been proven time and again.

I am the same way silverswood, i don't like when i gain weight because first of all my clothes do not fit. haha I figured that as long as i am not bigger than size 8 I am happy. anything more than that is not comfortable for me because i have a very small frame. but I do not think that women's confidence should derive from her degrees of thinneness lol i think our culture is too focused on being skinny.

it is unhealthy to be too heavy but it is just as unhealthy to be too skinny. i was very ill once in my life and I lost so much weight that i was 00 size. people complimented me for looking great. hahah i was so sick, i dreamed of times when i can enjoy food again and gain some wieght. people don't understand that when they see skinny folks, they don't know that these people might be very sick, that's why they are so skinny. if you ask me if i want to be size zero again? no, never.

Hi FD,
Yep, a size 8 is my ideal weight too (I don't go by pounds, I go by the way my clothes feel!). I'm right there now, but still have a bit around my thighs I'm trying to work off.6 is the lowest, 10 is the highest. When I was looking at 14's I knew there was a problem!! LOL

I agree the culture is too focused on being skinny. When I was going through my divorce I got very very thin and had a lot of compliments. That was nice, but I was dying inside and all everyone could care about was how "good" I looked. All I had to do was look at my eyes, my dark circles, my mouth, frowning, and I could tell I didn't look good. But all they saw was the thin.

I think that's the point Stray was trying to make. If you love someone, you love the person inside the body, fat or no fat. And if a woman knows her man is not with her (pardon me, but...) through thick and thin she will wall off her emotions and then when/if she ever does lose the weight and sees the difference in attitude she will be less inclined to open up again. The betrayal goes deep.

I have never been obsessed with weight.My screen name is only iloveexercise because exercising was the only thing that helped me when I quit smoking CIGARETTES. I was quite depressed from it and the natural endorphins I got from working out did wonders for me.

I think as long as one is healthy and feels good about themselves,than that is all that matters.

People are so overly obsessed with their weight because they don't know who they are without an exterior image to tell them. That is our whole society and it is ridiculous. Even little girls four years old think they are "fat".

But enough of that. Asolo was right, this OP has to assert himself or he will be out in the cold and his wife will have the kids, the house and her new life. If she wants to date other people, she needs to be single. "Open marriage" is a joke.

This husband needs to stop being so apologetic and stand up for his and his children's rights. Let her move on, if that is what she wants. You really can't stop her. But don't let her walk all over you, mister. She does "owe" you...big time. She must choose between "drive it" and "park it", no halfway measures.

scarlett, I just can't help but see a sense of "implied entitlement" in this man's words. (wherever he went ..).
His wife has worked very hard for the changes in her life, her career, weight, and I assume because of the way her husband speaks about their relationship-also her self esteem. I just don't think women or men; wake up one morning and decide because they look great to suggest an open marriage. I fear she has had a lot of disappointments in her marriage and due to the fact she didn't feel good about herself physically just tried to keep that inside and hide the pain. Then new changes occurred in her life-her self-esteem grew, and she realized that just because her husband wasn't filling her emotional needs that she is worthy and her need to feel attractive reasonable.
I also do not believe she wants an "open marriage" or she wouldn't be with him. I think she suggested that option in a sad attempt to get him to tell her he loves her and wants her...and she has always been beautiful and always will be beautiful.. We don't always ask for emotionally needs directly and I think that is because, if we were turned down, there would be no excuses (didn't get it...whatever) it would be a straight forward turn down and so very painful. We just can't risk it, so we say wild things in an attempt to get our lovers to provide us with the acknowledgment we so need in a way that feels less vulnerable to us.
I may be wrong, but I bet she is hurting...
stray

scarlett, I just can't help but see a sense of "implied entitlement" in this man's words. (wherever he went ..).
His wife has worked very hard for the changes in her life, her career, weight, and I assume because of the way her husband speaks about their relationship-also her self esteem. I just don't think women or men; wake up one morning and decide because they look great to suggest an open marriage. I fear she has had a lot of disappointments in her marriage and due to the fact she didn't feel good about herself physically just tried to keep that inside and hide the pain. Then new changes occurred in her life-her self-esteem grew, and she realized that just because her husband wasn't filling her emotional needs that she is worthy and her need to feel attractive reasonable.
I also do not believe she wants an "open marriage" or she wouldn't be with him. I think she suggested that option in a sad attempt to get him to tell her he loves her and wants her...and she has always been beautiful and always will be beautiful.. We don't always ask for emotionally needs directly and I think that is because, if we were turned down, there would be no excuses (didn't get it...whatever) it would be a straight forward turn down and so very painful. We just can't risk it, so we say wild things in an attempt to get our lovers to provide us with the acknowledgment we so need in a way that feels less vulnerable to us.
I may be wrong, but I bet she is hurting...
stray