I've come to think maybe some visible suds is a good thing.

If you can use, say a whole box of say Zero Suds with no visible sudsing, you know 3 rinses it not going to get all that unseen detergent out.

Wow! I had no idea. I just thought no suds meant that it wouldn't bubble up. I never thought about it not rising totally out.

Suburbanmd, I'm not following you lol. I would think using Rosalies that does not cause suds would have no effect on residue detergent. I would think that if using Rosalies there would be suds still if there's residue. .however if a hot empty load run thru doesn't produce suds I would think residue could be marked off the list of causes. I can't even imaging Roc so diligent in detergent measuring and machine care would have residue problems.Admittedly I know very little about FL's

@mamap - Not familiar with Rosalie's soap. Only heard of it here but that's true for many things LOL

@georgect - Residual suds is exactly the issue. I don't have a great deal of suds in the wash cycle. But when the third rinse cycle still looks like a low-suds wash cycle that was my concern. My machine has a separate rinse cycle. When I put it through there there after the 3 sudsy rinses there was still a little square of what looked like suds sticking to the glass on the door. It had been blown up there by the spin. When I touched it though, it felt like bubbles -- it wasn't slick feeling like and didn't have a fragrance. Also, the cottons did not retain any fragrance from the LeBlanc -- only the synthetic sports bra retained any fragrance. So I know that, in the end, the rinsing was complete.

I ran the maintenance cycle and it looked normal -- it removes residual.

I believe I'm not overdosing because when the previous machine was taken apart I asked the tech specifically to check the drum to see if there was any gunk in there and he said, no it was pristine. That was a 2-1/2 y.o. machine.

It may be a liquid issue. The sudsing was with a Le Blanc sleepwear load. But I've used Le Blanc on sheet loads without incident. Perhaps it was just the specific formulation which I'd only used once before. But it's not one of the concentrated liquids which are only for very hard water. Couldn't use them in the city or here.

If you look at this question from the perspective of the detergent to water ratio it pans out like this. In my older top load washer that used 45 gallons of water (170 L) per load with only once rinse cycle, the amount of detergent I added was diluted in 22.5 gallons of water and rinsed in 22.5 gallons (85 L). My front load washer uses 12 gallons (45 L) of water per load with two rinse cycles, meaning the amount of detergent added is diluted over 4 gallons (15 L) of water followed by two 4 gallon rinse cycles. Thus to get the same concentration of detergent to water one would need to cut down the amount used in the top loader by a factor of 6 for use in the front load washer. Thus if you used 1.5 ounces (44 ml) of detergent in a top loader washer per load, you would only need to add 1.5/6 = 0.25 ounces (8 ml or 1/2 Table Spoon) in a front load washer to maintain the same detergent concentration. I am sure it is not that simple but this should give you a idea of the relationship between water amount and detergent. Thus for front load washers less detergent is better since the concentration of detergent greatly affects the amount of suds generated.

@sandiego_steve -- This makes sense.

I'm doing 2 towel loads today. Same sizes. I did the first with 1/2Tb (measured) of the Miele Ultra-White Larsi sent me -- at Larsi's suggestion BTW, thank you to one of our resident laundry mavens. Zero suds. Only a few bubbles.

The 2nd towel load with 1/2 tablespoon of LeBlanc towel wash is in there now. Same cycle. Same warm temp. (If I'm only using 1/2 tb detergent I certainly want the enzymes on max). Zero suds. Only a few bubbles.

IOW - medium size towel load is good with very little detergent.

So, with smaller, less absorbing fabrics -- say sleepwear and sox -- would the same amount of detergent which @sandiego_steve says is scalable for a front loader produce more visible suds since there is a smaller load of fabrics with less absorbing power?

Then does it follow that, as long as the ratio of detergent to water is correct some loads will suds and some won't?

Certainly gives me something to try to assess.

Rococogurl that makes sense to me.

sandiego_steve, if your FL load is the same as your old TL load, it has the same soil and needs the same cleaning ingredients. But while cutting the detergent by a factor of 6 to match the reduced wash water, you've also cut the cleaning ingredients by the same factor. There are people more knowledgeable than me who say this is bad for your clothes (which won't get clean) and worse for your clothes washer (which will accumulate greasy deposits internally). That worries me more than some suds showing up in the rinse,

It was my understanding that HE detergents are formulated with less water conditioning ingredients (softening, anti-corrosion, etc.), relative to cleaning ingredients (surfactants etc.), since they're used in less water. But nowadays detergents are increasingly marked for both HE and regular use, so the formulation must be a compromise. There's been talk here about the "HE and regular" version of some detergents sudsing more than the "true HE" version of the same brand.

This is exactly Suburbanmd, what I have also read by people much much more knowlageable than me..that a lot of people have cut back so far with detergent in their FL to prevent suds that although they may not see a noticable difference in their clothes they will snd their washers surely will.

No suds on 4 loads, 3 with 1/2 tb and 1 large sheets load with 3/4 t.b. will take it up to 1 tb and see if there is a change next week. this is after maintenance so perhaps there were residual suds.

1 tb should not be too much soap for a set of king sheets with 4 pillowcases. For sure, half is ok.

2loads were the Miele Ultra White Larsi sent me. i like this a lot so far. tHings come out very soft.

I'm so happy Rococo, I like it a lot too.

I've been also washing with my beloved original Tide HE powder and Tide with a Touch of Downy HE powder...both make substantially more bubbles during the wash, but rinses seem pretty good (still not a perfect as with Miele powder).

I LOVE the scent of the old Tide HE powder (and I prob have a 1 year supply or more) & Tide with Downy powder. I don't love the final scent of the Miele powder, or lack of scent...but I know this is a good thing for you and many others!

I got in contact with the guy who created Rosalie's Zero Suds and he said there should be no residue left when following box directions but told me I could take an item that had gone through the whole cycle and put it in a tub of plain water and swirl it around. He said check the water to see if it felt slippery. If it didn't (and it shouldn't with his product), then the detergent had left no residue. So I feel better now about Rosalie's.

Maybe an inexpensive pH meter (such as sold by Amazon) can be used to measure rinsing effectiveness.

suburbanmd - so I would need to check the water to get a ph and then check again in the rinse to see what the ph is?

Zero PH= zero carbonates...I think

I should say neutral PH not zero..lmao

The pH of each rinse bath should approach the pH of your plain water (not necessarily neutral), as more and more detergent is rinsed out. This assumes that the wash water pH differs sufficiently from plain water, and that an inexpensive meter is good enough to reliably detect the changes. Might be worth a try.

My inexpensive meter is my fingers.

As for fragrance, I major in linen spray. No detergent will give me verbena LOL.

Roc..LMAO why is it none of us thought of this...very good Roc

rococogurl - Í am definitely with you. I just did a load using Rosalie's. Water was definitely not slippery. Good enough for me. Now if they could only invent a fresh outdoors wind blowing hot sun beaming down scent. I would go for that.

Are you talking about wash water or rinse water not slippery? I'm assuming you mean Rinse?

Maylingsmom, that fresh outdoors, wind blowing hot sun beaming down scent was invented a long time ago...The Clothesline. Lol

Yeah, rinse.

Usually run about here.

https://youtu.be/WBAy5quwK9Q

You guys and your romance of the clothesline. I haven't seen anyone hang laundry outside (except in Italy) for 30 years. Where I've been living it would get so dirty you'd need to wash it every time it dried. Too much black soot! And the neighbors would complain. LOL.

That's sad rococogurl. When I lived in town I had a 15' clothesline and hung clothes out all the time. Now that I live in the country, our property is shaped so strange there is no way to have a line but I put those drying racks on my patio and put stuff like my nightgowns out there.

Oh no. I still put things out n a nice sunny bright day. Bedspreads, golf shirts, etc. Really a nice look and scent when line dried. Fresh, sweet. LOL unless you neighbors BBQ n.

I should try that. Need one of those folding racks. Bet i could get one at a house sale.

I also use the line when I'm able, I expecially love bed sheets and dress shirts hung outside. I iron my bed sheets and after line drying and ironing they are delicious.

Roc, I have a folding rack I use inside all winter, I dont machine dry any of the boys school clothes, they stay new looking longer this way. I think I payed around 20 $ at walmart last year for it..it has 3 arms on it. I've retired the shower rod as a drying rod lol

great tip mamp. Will look next time.

Drying clothes outdoors in CA......the sun and heat are great, but the dust and bird cr*p and bee droppings (tiny, orange/yellow powder poops) are horrible.

Also line drying makes everything crisp!!!, and if you hang shirts they get all stretched long and misshapen!!

I do have about an 8 foot line hung in our garage, and since the garage is 90-100F for most of the year, I can line dry something if I need to. NO dust, no birds, no bees and the garage acts like a heated closet, LOL. I usually hang up microfiber cloths, placemats, bathing suits and washable napkins!!

Guess it depends on your geographic location. Ohio weather is quite different from CA.

So's Iowa weather rpsinfoman, lol.

Very few days of the year that you can't dry outside in the deep south.

Good afternoon Laundry Family!

I decided to bring this topic back up because I was literally about to ask this question myself since I'm still relatively new here.

I wanted to see what a Level 5 of Cheer Powder (Full he load according to Cheer) looks like in my Elux 617 with a relatively large load of clothes. The 617 has an oversuds sensor so I figured at worst it would pop up the message about it. To my surprise with softened water it's no worst than below.

Thoughts?

Cedric, how many Tablespoons did you use?

I have yet to open my powder Cheer.

That's my optimum suds level.

George, level 5 on Cheers' cup is approximately 12 Tbps.

I've been thinking about getting the new 617 Electrolux. I recently watched my friends 517 in action and on a normal cycle had almost NO water. I watched the wash and rinse. I have an older Duet and I get considerably more water and never have a problem with clothing, bedding etc not getting clean. What are your thoughts George & Cedric? Thanks and hope you're having a beautiful Sunday :)

Jenny still learning the machine as well as how to launder correctly, but I love it so far.

Jenny...

Mine is the older generation 70 series. It uses more water in the wash than the newer models BUT the newer models have deeper rinses with an actual pool of water. In Mine there is no pool of water.

What I don't like about the newer models is that there is no true Pre-wash and no more Allergen cycle.

From what I've seen on the internet, except for a fluke here and there, they've been a reliable pair.

Cedric...that seems like a really big dose of detergent.

At most I'll use 4 Tablespoons but I do use STPP and Borax along with my detergents (I have naturally soft water).

Are you getting all that detergent out in the rinses? Are your clothes REALLY that dirty. It just seems like too much. Are you using fabric softener because residual softer will stay in the clothes and kill the suds.

I can't use Cheer. Even 1T is suds overload, I mean all I see when I look in the machine is suds.

Cedric you may have mentioned this but do you have hard water? Or add FS to the wash cycle?

Its possiable that with harder water and heavy soils to have less suds...but 12T is a LOT of detergent in a FL and not have suds pouring out.

George, no, usually no where near a heavy soil. In the final rinse suds are gone, so all is good on that front. I'm going back to 3 Tbps max as I see no difference in cleaning power.

Mama, I have hard water but it's on the lower end. New water softener takes care of all of the worries. Also, only use dryer sheets for softening.

I'm wondering since the Elux 617 premixes very well if that's preventing heavy suds.

Cedric, I thought you didn't like the scent of the Cheer powder?

Greeny, wife thinks it's a little strong. No bother to me. I have ALL F&C Oxi liquid for her on everything non-dark-darks.

Cheer has one of the lightest and old fashioned scents on the market.

I'm still on the hunt for an OB free..geesh...Tide Pur is out. Way to sudsy for me.

It irritates me to no end why P&G has a product Tide ColorGuard yet it has OB's.

I read somewhere that ALL F&C powder is ob free but I can't find the ing. List. I was also told Purex Baby liquid is ob free, but I don't know that yet.

I'm starting to think it's just the Elux which prevents high suds.