the miele's will give the best fabric care and a better quality built. miele is probably the best value in terms of fabric care a longevity of the product. that would be my suggestion. also consider an all stainless honey comb pattern interior and a 1400 max rpm spin speed and easy to use controls which all surpass the bosch. last i checked you couldn't do a a prewash with a bosch. i'm sure the nexxt is a good machine, the miele is just better. my 2 cents.

and no, you don't have to use persil although it work pretty damn good with whites.

Correct, the 800 does not have a pre-wash. However it does have a pre-soak.

Glad I didn't see the meile (my appliance dealer does not carry), because I probably would have been more confused on choices!!

I did just go see the Miele and the Bosch 800 and I was very surprised to prefer the Bosch! The selector knob is a bit flimsy, but the push button selections on the Miele weren't amazing either.

I like the lower price, obviously, and the rinse/spin cycle option. I also like that the Bosch will heat the water to the proper temp in every cycle (or so it claims), and I've read that the Miele doesn't in the Normal cycle anymore.

Also, I'm a bit concerned about the spin/vibration issue with the stronger spinning Miele, since our laundry room will be above a crawl space. Even though I told the GC to reinforce the floor to be able to withstand 1600 rpm (yes, I exaggerated to him, I know!).

I also need a quiet dryer since my laundry room will be located next to our guest room, and it's just easier to buy a matching dryer since I want to have a shelf installed above the pair for folding. (The shelf will be much less deep with the Bosch, however, since the controls are on the top front, slightly tipped forward.)

So, I'm back to buying a Bosch set.

Thanks!

smarge,
I don't think you'll regret your decision to go with the Bosch. I think it is a very good washer and for the given price difference it is a better value IMO.
I know Miele makes great appliances, but I don't like the americanized version as much as I like the smaller ones.

I think the Bosch does make sure to always achieve and maintain the proper temperatures. It doesn't have a specified "normal" cycle, but it has plenty of different options. For a warm or hot cotton cycle it initially doesn't need to heat the water if the incoming hot water is at or above the desired temperature, but the heater will engage later to maintain the temperature.
You also have the option to do a cold fill and then gradually heat the water during the wash cycle (heavy duty option) which helps remove protein based stains.

I received my 500 plus dryer yesterday and I am pleasantly surprised that it is very quiet. I had the Whirlpool Cabrio dryer for a few days and it was quite a bit noisier than the Bosch. The Cabrio has a larger capacity, but there still wasn't a difference in drying performance or time. It took 42 minutes to dry a fairly full load on the cotton "very dry" option. Everything was dry, warm and soft when it came out of the dryer. The jeans were not wrinkled at all.
I did use the dryer balls, so I am not sure if things would have been less soft without them. I will do some experiments to see if the dryer balls are effective or not. For $9.99 I figured it wouldn't hurt to give it a try. So far I think I like them.

Sorry for duplicating this; it's posted in another thread..

Does anyone use Clorox II or some other separate color safe bleach in their Bosch?

If so, how do you do it?

Do you put the Clorox II in the separate bleach compartment and select the bleach option or do you put the Clorox II in with your detergent in the detergent compartment?

Thanks.

I have used Clorox II in my old TL and have added it to the bleach dispenser on it. I think it ran right into the tub so I added it while it was filling. I think Chlorox II is very similar to Oxiclean and should be added during the wash phase. I think you could add it to the detergent dispenser, but it would be messy if you use powdered detergent (like I do). I prefer using the powdered Oxiclean or any store brand product like that.
Hope this helps.

It kind of does, I use liquid detergent and liquid Clorox II.

Of course in a TL you add the Clorox II in the wash phase and I think that is what the manufacturer (Clorox) intends is for the product to be used in conjunction with your detergent.

But the manual on the Bosch 700 indicates to put color safe bleach in the bleach dispenser. I think this would mean that you should select the bleach option - which would add the bleach as part of an extra rinse which is then added to the cycle.

Guess I was trying to figure out if I could or even should add the Clorox II to the detergent compartment with the detergent - wondered if anyone else was doing that or if we should be doing that....

Thanks again.

Clorox II is indeed an oxygen based product (I just checked out the Clorox website), so it will NOT be effective during a rinse cycle. On their website they recommend adding it to the detergent dispenser after adding the detergent. I guess you could add them at the same time. There is also a powdered form of Clorox II and I would mix that with the powdered detergent just like I do with the Oxiclean.

The manual for the 500 plus also says that you can add color safe bleach to the bleach dispenser, but I think they made a mistake there. They do recommend to put stain remover into the detergent dispenser and the color safe bleach kind of qualifies as that. It will not do much at all during a short, cold water rinse.

Looser,

ThatÂs what my common sense says too but I just wanted to ask what other people who are already using similar Bosch units were doing.

Thanks again.

Is pre-soak the on the Nexxt the same as pre-wash on the He3t, does it fill then drain and fill again for the main wash?

Thanks,
Rick

Hi Smarge.I am in the exact position you were in regarding the Miele or the Bosch 800. Since you've had it for a couple of months, how do you like your Bosch? Any second thoughts or regrets? This would be my !st new washer/dryer in 23 years! My old Maytags just hang in there. I've had only 2 service calls in all this time. Now I FINALLY have a dryer that's too hot and a washer that's tearing holes in clothes. Big shock, lol, no replacement parts available. My point is that I would hope for the same reliability I now have. Thanks to all who can help!

Feedback re Bosch Nexxt 800: I deliberated and researched washers after a coping (barely) for 5 years with Kenmore/Whirlpool Calypso so wanted to get the best!
FIRST: LG Tromm Steam which was returned due to horrible odor and whites coming out grey on sanitary cycle.
SECOND: I then got the Bosch Nexxt 800 pair on a Thursday and on Friday the wire spring securing the washer seal popped out and the authorized repair service was not available by phone until Monday, then the appt was 9 days later!
Retailer said use it anyway; Bosch said not to.
To top this off, the installers had reversed the hot/cold hoses, so good clothes shrunk!
Since repair, the door won't close properly. I'm now searching for replacement because I cannot cope with another lemon.
HERE ARE GENERAL CONS YOU MAY WANT TO KNOW:
1) Sanitary cycle doesn't whiten my whites (I use He detergent and OxyClean);
2) Controls are horrible -- to set clock or alarm on/off, etc., you must put it on a program (then if you accidentally push the start button, it starts washing again)
3) It shows what time the load will finish (not number of minutes) but the clock isn't displayed on that view so you have to go look at a clock elsewhere to know what that means;
4) Green lettering is already wearing off the "Eco" label on controls -- signs of worse to come?
5) Nowhere, even in manual, does it say what the rinse temp is for cycles;
6) Too many Bosch specific terms like "Kids" , "Eco" , "Refresh" and "Aquaguard" -- even "Jeans" and "Comforter" cannot be assumed to be something one is used to. How can one remember what those mean each time -- industry standards would be better -- KISS
7) I washed a mattress pad on regular hot cycle at 1200 RPM spin and it came out dripping;
8) To change certain settings requires holding down one big red button while toggling another ... not easy with arthritic fingers and if you let go too quickly you have to start over again.
HELP! WHAT WASHER should I get? Whirlpool Duet Steam? A cheap Kenmore? Miele?

GENERAL LEARNINGS RE EUROPEAN FRONT-LOADERS SOLD IN USA: In Europe they run on 220V and have to be modified here for 100V -- even Miele who used to sell 200V models here have stopped supplying those and only sell 110V models. What this means is the 110V versions cannot heat the water high enough to get whites that white (my true test). So front loaders are proven by European manufacturers, but 110V performance has been proven by USA. Who's got it figured out?

My wife and I opted for the W4840/T9820 and are awaiting their delivery. After researching to a great extent and physically reviewing all the various units, the Miele brand is far and away the better in terms of unit construction. I did read all the threads here regarding the W4800 and the W4840, and the concerns revolved around the lack of heated Normal cycle versus what a washer is supposed provideÃcleaning. I will post a follow-up in a new thread on how matters proceed with the two units, including cleaning.

After some serious thinking and three iteration of change in order, we opted Miele W4840 and T9820 as well. Ours get delivered only in the month of May-2008. I agree with fahrenheit_451 observation about the durability and sturdy look of Miele. In the meantime, if there is any happy customer out there, please do post your experience about Miele.

I did started a forum to discuss only the good things of Miele.

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/laundry/msg121014404744.html

sorry cyberinferno, I haven't taken delivery of my appliances yet. They are scheduled for delivery Jan. 21st. I was very excited until I read ascotgranny's post above. Now I'm second-guessing!

(To think, just yesterday I said to my DH, "Can you believe I ordered all our appliances so long ago and haven't changed my mind on a single one yet?")

Hi Smarge, What's with the delivery times for your machines? I ordered mine on Fri 04, and they'll be here tomorrow or Wed. I ended up with the Duet Steam, due mostly to listening to several women who have had them for a couple of years, with no problems. Not the steam part, of course, but the original Duets. Parts are also much easier to get than for either the Bosch or the Miele. I am in complete agreement about the 220 volt machines. I think Europeans MUST do that better than 110 volt. What really ticks me off is that I am already wired for 220, and can't get a 220 machine. I'll let you know if I like these, or just send them back for the Miele. Just an aside; I'm surprised that Miele is the only company that puts the dryer on the left. I'm left handed, so I'll have to relearn THAT habit!

Let me clarify, we are completely renovating a house we can't move into yet. I ordered my appliances at the end of October 2007 since Miele was scheduled to have a major price increase on 11/1/07 (Miele wall oven and DW). My retailer agreed not to deliver until 1/7/07. I'm sure my W/D set could have been delivered in a very timely fashion had we been ready to accept delivery.

Our wood floor was not installed until today and still needs to be finished. SO, the cabinet installation got pushed to 1/21, and the appliances will now be delivered, per my request, on 1/23.

With the exception of my Capital Rangetop. I was advised yesterday that it is expected to be delivered in early Feb. This is freaking me out, b/c that will delay the plumber (gas) electric, countertop installation and even something final about my cabinet base installation. Capital and my retailer are both looking into this matter with Almo, our area distributor, to see what can be done.

(I was originally told that my Capital was SUPPOSED to have a 12 week lead time.)

Smarge, have your builder use the cut sheet for your Capital unit, and build to spec; this happens all the time. Yes, someone has to return to connect it, but at least you can have the work completed. Call the factory to ensure that nothing has changed in the cut sheet (model revision, and any other number of small changes that can occur).

OMG, I had no idea you were remodeling. Good Luck with that! BTW. I did not order the pedestals for my Duet Steamers. I have hanging cabinets on the wall, and with the pedestals I would have had about 6" of useless space on the tops of the machines. However, I find no difference between the bending I did for my ancient dryer and the bending I'm doing with the new machines. I'm 57years old and 5'4". My dealer said they would charge $75 for installation if I later changed my mind.
Thus far, it is not a problem. I do love the Duets and have had no problems in the 10 loads I have run!

Another difference between Miele and Bosch is H-Axis (straight drum) on the Miele (I think?) and tilted on the Bosch....

Believe the Miele W48xx drum is also tilted a little bit.

Yeah gordonr is correct. The 48XX is at a 10 degree tilt or something like that. I can't figure that out. The machine is larger and should be easier to get things in and out of...so why tilt the drum slightly...unless Miele just thought that was what folks in the USA would want. I dunno.

Sorry guys,
We had to take our W4840 and T9600 back to the store.The dryer noise and helicopter landing on our house during the spin cycle were just too much. Ended up with the Duet aspen greens (they work OK) but another poster said all of us will be lucky if we get 7 years out of our machines no matter what brand we have. I believe that.

darboydoughboy, sorry to hear that matters did not workout. We are still awaiting the arrival of our Miele W4840 and T9820 (it has been almost three weeks now). I'll post our findings when they are installed.

Well, I finally moved into the renovated house and have the following comments about the Nexxt 800 washer.

Per ascotgranny above, the manual does not list the rinse temps for any wash cycle. Very likely, because EVERY rinse is WARM! I just learned this today!

How DARE Bosch claim that they have a "Hand wash" cycle for very delicate easy care items that require hand washing" Anything I own that requires hand washing also usually requires being washed (and also RINSED) in COLD water!

What good does choosing a COLD wash do if your items are then rinsed in very warm water?

I washed a load on COLD regular wash and if finished with very warm clothes. To make sure the hoses weren't reversed, I washed a load on HOT regular wash, and it finished with the items the same temp as the cold wash finished!

I then washed some slightly delicate items on the Hand Wash setting and they also finished warm!

I also had to update this thread with new info., because apparently the Bosch Nexxt 800 washer that I saw at Karl's in NJ has been updated to eliminate the Rinse/Spin button! I stated above that it had the Rinse/spin option, one option that was important to me, and it DOES NOT have it!

Be warned of these unadvertised changes, which are negatives against the Bosch 800 imo. I'm going to research other washers and see if I can still get mine replaced due to these disappointments.

Updating this thread one more time with my terrible results with my Bosch 800 washer.

I have had service people here multiple times, all for the same problem. This machine will run fine for a bunch of loads and will suddenly tell me the wash is done with NO error message, and the wash will be sopping wet! Since there is no Spin only option, the only way to deal with this is to try to run another complete cycle or to run a slightly less time consuming "Refresh" cycle which is a rinse and spin which takes 11 minutes.

However, I often find that this also leaves me with a sopping wet load!

My repairman can't come again until 12/10. This is getting ridiculous, so I've contacted my retailer and have requested this machine be returned as defective and plan to find something else out there!

My recommendation is to NOT buy the Bosch 800, although I clearly have a lemon.

Buy a Miele and you'll be looking at it for the next 25 years. German excellence! My experience has been excellent with these machines. Aren't then Bosch FL clothes washing machines made in Bulgaria?

Can anyone weigh in on their experience with the W3033/3035 series? I'm looking to install two sets of these (upstairs and downstairs). I looked at the 4840 set, but needed the space saving of the Miele middle-sized units, which I understand are the largest ones offered in Europe. Do these machines create excessive noise/vibration when installed near a MBR?