I thought of you this morning as I approached my deep sink......that was CLEAN when I left it last night and appeared to be in that same pristine state when I approached it. My kids (7 and 10) had a snack before bed and I assumed they put the bowls in the dishwasher - no dice. Not even close. Not only were the bowls in the sink they still had cereal remnants in them. ARgh!

What is that they say - you have to repeat something a few THOUSAND times before it sinks in. And it takes 14 days of repeating a behavior to create a habit? So we are on day zero then.

I wish I'd had the ba11s to be more of a hardliner mom. I had all my eggs in one basket (only-child daughter) and there wasn't any way to balance it out. I hope those of you with little kids (e.g., Breezy) will benefit from your no-nonsense stance when they hit puberty. It was a war zone in my house for several years, a place I dreaded returning to at the end of my work day. My DD is now 36 and we still love each other dearly despite the carp from those days.

If I have people over for an evening, I'd just as soon they leave their dishes in the sink or on the counter and I will load the DW myself. I've never had a prep sink so I can't appreciate the annoyance of having people leave their stuff there.

For laundry, gray is a dark...unless it's been washed so many times you know for a fact it is safe to slip in with whites.

If you want a fitted cover for the sink, you must plan ahead.The sink has to be mounted with a rim that protrudes out from under the countertop for the cover to rest on.

There is a name for this kind of sink, but I can't remember it. Undermount with a positive reveal, maybe. Anyway, this can be done with any kind of countertop, and some granite shops that use laser cutters (I was told) can use the cut out to make a cover that fits the sink opening. BUT it will be very heavy. A wooden cuttingboard can also be made to fit snugly inside the opening, resting on the positive reveal and level with the counter.

Most undermount sinks, though, have nothing to support a fitted cutting board unless it rests on top of the counter. Nothing wrong with that, just not quite as ''slick'' looking.

How do I know this? Because I planned on a fitted cutting board that could be used beside or on top of the prep sink and then found I couldn't do it because there was no exposed rim on the sink.

I don't think I'd want a counter-level barrier to flowing water. It could take a lot less than a sleepwalker to space out and turn it on without thinking.

Wow.
The battles we choose, huh?

I'm along the lines of Doc's approaches.

No kids, but an unbelievable slob of a husband. Unfortunately after 18 years I find much has rubbed off on me, but I'm working to regain my sanity, which involves a lack of clutter.

My battle was turning off the lights.
Solution: Motion sensors. And yes, that was a triumph.
Just had to get him to put them in, but if it shut me the F up, he did it. (That was a quote.)

Doc - wanna babysit??? ;)

They have it pretty good and we do run the hard line on some things - dishes have yet to catch up though! Kind of my fault - we put in tile and granite and I was afraid they'd break all my dishes. So I have just recently started having them load and unload the dishwasher. Interestingly enough the only one who has broken anything has been DH and myself!

Grlwprls, I'd rather be in your household.

Just don't let the bad habit start and it'll be easy. Tell everyone what the sink is for and what mustn't go there. Then invert a big mixing bowl over it (including the faucet!) when not in use.

They don't mean to be bad.

(My "RV" is 8'x7' for a family of 4 and an 80 lb dog. The double sink just didn't make the cut. :P )

When our kids were kids at home, we always had this problem. It's a teenager problem that won't go away anytime soon, at least not in my experience. Two boys and one girl child raised. One boy child is now married to Martha Stewart, Jr. and is a dream of a housekeeper with 3 younguns of his own; he was the worst of the bunch btw. DD is obsessive about how her dishwasher is loaded and how her laundry is done (she, who kept dirty milk glasses under her bed). I dunno.

Marcolo hit on it with the RV thing. This is common on boats as well. So long as you have an adequate sink reveal to support the insert, there's no reason they can't do this. Just make sure you have a good place to store the insert when you want to use the sink otherwise it's just one more thing kicking around your counter.

#firstworldproblems

Guess I should just consider myself lucky that we only have one sink in our kitchen.

This entire forum is dedicated to #firstworldproblems, isn't it? It is what it is.

LOL, kaljr!! This thread is enough to make a person think twice about putting in a second sink. Who knew owning one came with so much hassle!

You can hinge it:

Here is a link that might be useful: smev integrated lidded sink

As you mentioned, grls, I had such a beast in my last kitchen. We had a round undermounted sink with a positive reveal (part of the rim of sink showing) and my dad whipped up a cutting-board cover out of oiled cherry that matched the cabinets. He put fingerholes on the sides and it was great.

Water did not run all over the counter - in order to compensate for seasonal variations that swell the wood, the cover should be a good 1/4" shy of the edge so that it doesn't stick in the summertime. This means that if a faucet is turned on or accidentally jarred, the water will flow over the cover's edge and down into the sink without straying onto the countertop itself. We loved it and I plan on doing it again in my upcoming remodel.

When not in use, we put the cover under the fruit bowl or just chucked it into the cutting-board cupboard. We later had him make a half-circle board (well, actually a pac-man shape for stability) for pushing veggie trimmings right down into the sink, which was also swell.

outsideplaying, I had to lol when you mentioned the dirty milk glasses under the bed. My DD (who has thankfully outgrown the habit of putting the clean clothes back in the hamper) occasionally unloads the dishes she has in her room for who knows how long. Funny, she is really picky about how the new kitchen is being kept and is mad if anyone makes a mess in the sink.

marcolo, you took it to the next step putting the dishes on their clothes! I set it on a dresser and it would take a while for them to notice.

Both my sinks have a slight positive reveal. If I can't get the Corian cutout polished and finger pulled, I am definitely going to find a local wood worker. I'm still importing all my art and doo-dads from my New Orleans connections, so it's high time to start employing some Little Rock locals for home beautification :-)

I had also figured that I'd just slide the cover under the sink. While I don't feel like I need another cutting board, if no one abuses the prep sink, it would be nice to have a cutting board - but I could also use the Corian piece as a crockpot or toaster trivet.

Now that I've gotten some good feedback on this, I'm off to figure out where to store my stove accessories. I didn't figure on the wok ring, simmer plate, and griddle in my "stuff map" and the range doesn't have a storage drawer...more #firstworldproblems

My daughter was such a lazy princess (I'm using restraint here) that rather than put all her clean, folded clothes away from the hamper, she would toss them back into the dirty clothes so she didn't have to deal with them. I still marvel that she didn't end up in juvenile hall.

**Warning: Long ramble ahead.**

This whole thread confirms my suspicion. I am, indeed, a b*tch mother. The kids must follow the rules in my house. Period. If you don't, you won't like the consequences. I do not use physical violence, just fear. You lose any upcoming screen time (TV or ipad), playdates, museum trips, or birthday party invitations. Or you go to your room (DS hates this one as he doesn't like going down the hall by himself regardless of how many lights are on). You get your favorite toy or blanket taken away until you earn it back. When we go to the park, I make them repeat to me over and over during the drive that if they whine when it's time to leave the park, we will not get to go to the park again. I had to follow through on that threat once during early summer. No park for a week, and we did not go back to that park again. Its a killer when we get so few nice days in our area of the country.

Handling the 3y.o. is almost impossible so rules are spoken about, but it's harder to threaten them as their brains aren't quite to that developmental level yet. Heck, just dealing with any 3y.o. is a test of Job's patience. My 7y.o. is very well behaved now. I get compliments on his behavior all the time. He sits still in class, doesn't run around crazy in a restaurant, doesn't run off at the store, doesn't whine for me to buy him things at the store, etc. He does NOT have a smart mouth like many of the kids I see at school. He is respectful of adults. Most of this is because I established what the rules and expectations are, but also some is just his sweet nature. Jury is still out on the 3y.o. It's really hard to gauge their true personality during the hell of a three-year old year anyway. LOL!

Yes, my kids are still little. But won't establishing the rules and the consequences for not following them NOW when they're little make a difference when they are teenagers? It seems logical to me, but I have no direct experience. I just know that I find the behavior of many kids, both young and teenaged, abhorrent. I refuse to let my kids act like that. If you wait until they are older, it seems unlikely they will comply.

I also use positive reinforcement to shape behavior as well. We make charts and have rewards for accomplishing the desired behaviors. I praise them and compliment them on their great behavior often. And I love and snuggle on them all the time, just so you don't think I'm heartless. I love them more than anything, anything on this earth. I went through years of challenges just to have them.

I think it was another thread where a mom said she complains about having not having help to do the dishes while she's doing them, but no one listens. I find that to be nonsense. Assign the kids chores and make them do it. Every child has some sort of currency you can use with them for compliance. My 7y.o. has chores he must do already. Start them young!

I'm certainly no expert! I'm taking notes from Doc! Great ideas. Sorry to ramble. Being home all day with the kids and not having a job to keep my mind busy, I obsess about my kids and their future. Its nice to be able to discuss it with other parents. :)

This post was edited by breezygirl on Wed, Jan 23, 13 at 16:12

Actually Doc is nicer than me. One of my kids did run out of gas but that is what feet are for - walking to the gas station and back. They both did that once - one walked but the other one called his brother to help out and that is up to them.

OT and breezy - you are not a b*tch. Kids are people- in-training and that is what you are doing. You are about 20 years behind me but with the same expectations - it's worth it. My kids weren't/aren't perfect but they are nice people just like, I suspect, 90% of the kids out there.

Even if they don't put their dishes in the DW all the time.

Breezy, you're my hero! I wish I'd been the taskmaster you are when DD was younger. I don't think there's any guarantee that you won't have your hands full when the hormones rage, but I think you have a better chance than most of us who were too lax when we should have laid down the law and stuck with it. Then there's also something to be said for a kid's nature. Some are always sweet and compliant, while others will test you ever step of the way and call you horrible things. Simply horrible.

People call me to tell me how polite and helpful my daughter is, so I'm not a complete failure as a mother. In fact, they call to ask me how I managed to raise such a lovely girl. If only they could see what we call "her lair". I faint at the thought of it.

She does have chores, and she does do them. But, I live with generally lazy chuckers. Chuck your laundry generally near the hamper. Trash generally near the wastepaper basket. You get the idea. My daughter was very compliant...oh, until she hit 10 or so. Once she saw that other people let their children flop on the sofa and put their feet on the chairs...it was a slow slide into mayhem :-) And then you add in my husband and his failure to do things without constant henpecking? It's all over now. I've tried direct, indirect. Asking. Demanding, Pleading. Passive aggression. Flat out aggression. Nothing yields any results and the only one who is miserable is me.

And I'm *still* the b*tch mother :-). But at least she's polite to strangers. When she has friends over for dinner I am stunned at the fact that they lack even basic table manners. On the other hand, they are stunned that we eat at the table and use cloth napkins. I guess it goes both ways.

debrak-oh ewww! My college roommate would leave glasses in her room under her bed or wherever that had previously contained milk. Boy does that SMELL and it is so hard to scrape off the glass/cup! Not a great memory! I doubt she does that anymore now either. :) When we'd run low on cups we'd go into her room and sure enough there would be a good half dozen of them in there!

Oh no Breezy - you are not the only b*#@h mother, I assure you. If my kids new what that word was I'm sure they would liken it to me! Consequences are how we all learn and unfortunately as they grow the mistakes come with higher stakes and the consequences more severe so I say have at it!

My current peeve is bedtime. When I say it's time to get ready you know the drill. So the worst punishment I can dole out that actually brings tears is to skip tucking them in which includes a short story and prayer together. I feel bad about it but darn it I will not hound you to brush your teeth, jammies, potty and wash hands. How hard is that and no it should not take 30 minutes!!!!!

I think you are wise to start when they are young. If they are part of the household then they need to actually DO things in and with the household. It's called a family. Looking within our neighborhood our kids seem to be the only ones with any rules whatsoever and that includes acceptable behavior (and no my kids are NOT perfect but overall they are good kids and we have rules). It's NUTS! We look super strict to all of our neighbors and I just don't get it. We do not require them to do anything completely obnoxious or over the top at all. The neighbor was just talking to me about making her kids beds - they are 9, 12 and 15!!! What???????

They make their beds, clean their bathroom once a week, fold and put their laundry away (just started teaching the 10 year old how to RUN the washer), set the table, etc.. Now while some of it is not automatic and I get sick of reminding them (I likely need to employ a bit more stiffness like Doc) they are required to help out.

They have been taking care of age appropriate things as much as possible at an age appropriate level. If they try their best I applaud their efforts. For instance, I do not expect a 5 year olds made bed to look like a 35 year old made it. While they noticed it didn't look the same as when I did it I told them it was great and with as much practice as I've had theirs will improve too!

We also pay for some jobs but not all. And it's pay for performance at this point with our 10 year old. You CHOOSE do a crappy job don't expect to get paid for it period. The real world isn't going to put up with laziness so get a move on little man!

This past summer he wanted to earn some money so we gave him a job opportunity. So we laid it out explaining requirements and pay and he had to either accept it in full or not. It was not going to be if I feel like it and do it I get paid but I don't want it to be my responsibility so at any time I can choose not to do it and just not get paid. I monitored also - quality control baby!

It wasn't a hard job but it wasn't desirable either and he had to commit to it for the whole summer. He did and made a decent wage for it and I got out of picking up dog deuces for the summer. Woohoo! Life was good! Summer is done and at times I still ask them to pick up the yard for me without pay and they do. It was the commitment and responsibility to it that was the important lesson with that one. I know picking up after the dog is pretty lame but we were struggling coming up with something and it got me out of the 'dirty' job. You'd think I asked him to do something impossible. He actually had to think about it before he accepted it.

He also drew up a contract (we all signed it) that if he could keep his room clean (parent approved clean) for 6 months without any hassle or reminders from us we would buy him and iPod touch. Well he made it about 2 1/2 - 3 months and that was it. He did not succeed and we did not buy him one. I think that was a good lesson also as it was completely within his control whether he would succeed or not. I knew he could and really wanted him to but it wasn't important enough for him to keep at it. No deal.

He has since decided to save all birthday/Christmas/odd job money to buy one himself. Sounds good to me.

I am sure they don't like it but I also remind them that it is our responsibility to teach them how to function in society, to be productive, respectful of others, etc. and they will do the same with their own when their time comes.

You are surely not the only one that obsesses about the future of their children. I think it comes with the territory - if you have your wits about you anyhow but that's another topic. I was a SAHM for 6 years (started back once they were in school but only part time) so I get it. It is so different going from work, deadlines, structure to a whole new world where you don't see the fruits of your labor for quite some time and all the while a whole lot of prayer going on! It truly is the hardest job EVER!

So I guess I just tagged onto your mommy rant....

I must confess that I have nothing else to complain or worry about with my kids. No worries with the usual teenager stuff. We have what they call an open relationship. They want to be able to talk to us about anything so we actually know most of what is going on which at first was kind of scary. Anyways, other then neatness I have no complaints. As others have said, people rave about my kids all the time. How polite, mature, and responsible they are.

But I still put up some notes today about dirty dishes, I just can't be helped...

Like debrak, I guess we had an open type relationship. We also chose which battles to pick. My DD is smart and headstrong, and sometimes you have to let them win a point here and there. As nasty as she could be at home, I heard she was absolutely fine from other parents whose opinions I valued and trusted. I believe you act your worst around the people who you know love you the most.

I just had a conversation with my now 36-year-old DD, the one who was such a beastly adolescent. She just told me how grateful she was for having such wonderful parents. You know, you love 'em and do your best. The message is not lost on them.

Wait, I did have a rule that was obeyed: bedtime. Set it early and never got any grief over it.

OMG I am so glad to learn that I am not the only person who cannot stand to cook if there are dirty dishes in sink or on counter or clean dishes ready to be unloaded from the dishwasher- I need the kitchen to be clean and neat before any meal prep is going to occur.

Well gosh, ya'all sure do have a lot of problems with your kids! Mine have just about perfect manners, both at home and out.

...

(Ha!)

Okay, can someone TEACH me what this is all about?
I don't and will not have a prep sink, so does this still apply to single sink?

What is this clean sink, wiping down sink, not using sink at night business?

I grew up with a Chinese family restaurant so I often worked in the front and back.
The sink is a work horse. All sorts of stuff goes it there.
Until the dishwasher is loaded, sink can be piled w/ dirty dishes/pots/pans.

So now I use it to store the dirty dishes until I can load the dishwasher. Since I don't like to run dishwasher unless it's efficiently loaded (I hate it when my friend runs it w/ just a few cups and 2-3 pots, because pots are too big to fit anything else), I leave the other stuff in the sink until the first load is done. I also like to run the DW at night (lower energy cost).

My battle w/ DH is that he will leave dishes on the countertop NEXT to the sink.
My kids are still short, so we have them put dishes on the countertop next to sink, since if they put them in the sink, the dishes will probably break/chip from the fall.
So my daily battle is to constantly move dirty dishes from the countertop into the sink.
For my reno, I also got the biggest sink so it can store a lot of stuff, until I'm ready to load the DW.

So yes, often, my sink will still have stuff in it at night, or any time of the day. As for spots, etc, I wash my hands so often, there's always water (either just splashed, or dried on).

Reminds me of the other thread w/ the lettuce sitting on the sink grid: I never trust that my sink is ever clean enough for me to put edible stuff in it.

So I don't understand it.
Is there really a RIGHT way, or just a preference/how you were raised, or if you're OCD, etc?

thanks,
Amanda

I fall in the OCD category - do not like dishes in the sink, ever to the point that if the DW is full after dinner and just started I might just choose to hand wash what doesn't fit if it's a couple of pots or something. It drives me crazy to fill it run it and empty it just to refill it again.

I do not have people over with a full DW where I can't load it after dinner (I make sure I run it and empty it before hand). The few times I have forgotten have bugged me. I have rinsed and stacked them IN the sink until after company leaves but I don't think I have EVER left them in there over night. I just can't do it...it's a sickness I know. Dishes on the counter next to the sink - ack, no way. That is why I have a nice deep sink. On the counter would be worse to me than in the sink.

Now if it's running and we eat something then sure a piece of silverware or bowl or something IN the sink okay but just until the DW is finished and emptied.

DH gets home from work in the middle of the night sometimes so he may put something in there on occasion and that doesn't ruffle my feathers - he gets a middle of the night pardon. ;)

I most definitely live with a heathen. He has never seen the inside of the dishwasher. It bugs me no end but if I say anything he has ready answers, very creative ones too. But his fallback one is "well I didn't know if they were clean or not". Gaw...I gave up some years ago.

Hi girlwprls, I wanted to close up my whole house, many, many times. And it is very hard when you don't get the absolute, unwavering support of dh. So keep up the good fight and know you are not wrong or unreasonable. It is reasonable to expect dirty dishes to go in the dishwasher. It is unreasonable to expect otherwise. Old enough to eat, old enough to be neat, and not treat you like the maid.

Was I this perfect and perfectly strict mother? Not always.

For those who are successful in keeping the sink clean and cleared, did yo train your family to load the DW? How did you achieve that?

Oh my, what a fun thread. I haven't gotten more than a dozen in but I must say oldbat (still loooove your name) - I'm with you. See, the problem around here is -- it's me who is forever putting dishes in the prep sink! If there were a board over the sink *I* would still do it! And I nag myself every single day about it but still I never listen. ;) I try to be patient with myself but I just never seem to learn.

Divided hampers? What gets me about these here is: they do sort of make a stab at sorting, but won't stab the clothes down, so they sit on *top* of the hamper sorters in a vague general correct sortment. I think it's a commitment problem. I'm sure they feel they'll get the hole wrong so if it's just sort of vaguely laying on top they'll avoid scolding. They're wrong in multiple directions and planes of course :)

Fill the dishwasher? Now ... I have to say, I am sufficiently anal that no one would load it correctly and so in all fairness, I cannot require of them to do something I agree I would be annoyed with a priori. Just getting dishes into the right sink would be enough. dayenu.

I can see this thread has reams more of good stuff and different directions where it will meander -- looking forward to it!

This thread is so, so funny! We've never had children. You've taught me that I really don't know what we've missed!

We are retired, not on the road anymore. DH loads/unloads the dishwasher. Apparently my MBA doesn't qualify me to load said dishwasher. Fine, knock yourself out! He does nothing else in the kitchen!

I've finally decided to update the kitchen and have settled on cabinet/counters. Yesterday I asked DH if there were any changes to the spec. list. Yep, you guessed it--he wants a new dishwasher. The current dishdrawers are 5 yr old but with new cabinets, what if something happened and the old ones leaked onto new cabinets??? Hey, I get the cabs I want, the quartz counter I want, the new induction stove (to replace the piece of crap one I have). And he wants new dishdrawers. Just called the man at the store. They're on order.

I believe in the Barney Fife theory of life ... you gotta nip it in the bud !! They can't do anything when they're puppies that won't be cute when they are big dogs. Same goes for husbands. I don't know what to do if it has already been too long. I think the training has to start on the first date. ; )

- Barney, these are just boys you're talking about. They're only about 8 years old.
- Yeh, well today's 8 year olds are tomorrows teenagers. I say this calls for action and Now !! Nip it in the bud. First sign of youngsters going wrong, you gotta nip it in the bud !
- I'm gonna have a talk with them. Now what more do you want me to do ?
- Well just don't mollycoddle 'em.
- I won't.
- Nip it !! You go read any book you want on the subject of child discipline and you'll find that every one of them is in favor of bud-nippin.
- I'll take care of it.
- Only one way to take care of it.
- Nip it.
- In the bud !

Edited to add link. Now, how about we all start including what the edit was ? : )

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTyw4hCoZKE

This post was edited by angela12345 on Fri, Jan 25, 13 at 20:51

OldBat (also love your name), your post made me laugh! Of course our children are perfect...outside the home. This thread wasn't meant to be a long commentary on parenting, but it sure got to be a funny reminisce of well-mannered kids turning into teenagers who didn't know how to put dishes into a DW! Funny, ours would do their chores, help with DOING dishes, but when no one was watching in the house, Bam! Fortunately they grow up and appreciate their upbringing and pay for their raising, just like my Mama said.

Grlwprls, I think you would love your Corian cutout for your sink. I meant to say earlier, I have some pieces of Corian (cut from a previous Corian countertop we had) that I still use. I often use a small piece laid across my prep sink when I need some extra room to lay out food when serving buffet style on the island.

gr8day-I had that similar (idiotic - no I'm not bitter) response about the clean v. dirty dishwasher until.....the old one crapped out. The new one has a light right next to the word CLEAN on it when it's finished the clean cycle. Oh GLORIOUS DAY!!!!!! So there is absolutey NO excuse. I love that little light.

Now what I get is - but you are better at it. In truth I am better at loading it but c'mon anyone can EMPTY it! :\

This thread is perfect timing. I never even thought about our island prep sink being a second dumping zone for dirty dishes, but it is! It drove me nuts for about a month, but now I'm calming down. I've resorted to just being thankful that the dishes are gathered in one or two places. My kids are too little to put dishes in the sink (they can't see in and can only drop them in- it makes too big of a mess), so it's really just DH and the babysitter. I ask DH to transfer the dirty dishes from the prep sink to the main sink for me- he's starting to just put them in the main sink in the first place.

In my parenting adventure, I'm definitely learning that my expectations have to fit the situation. I had always imagined that my kids would be more like Breezy explains, but then life happened and reality set in. My four year old has special needs, and I have to pick my battles. The sticker chart for now just works on having him sit for meals. Sigh. One day at a time, one rule at a time, and don't sweat the small stuff.

I'm still super happy to have a prep sink and a large main sink. I wouldn't trade it at all. A second sink of dirty dishes is nothing when compared to the usefulness of it.

Just wanted to mention that all that early-learning gets overwritten by steroids come puberty. You know how they ask you how "clean" you want your computer disk when you format it? I guess the puberty-wipe is just a fast-clean and some of those "0"s and "1"s remain to be retrieved after the havoc calms down. But an awful lot of all that careful teaching ... just out the door, gone.

My experience at least.

If you're into teaching, be prepared for a *lot* of repetition.

Me, I'm leaning toward the nature end of the explanation-range. I think you're either born willing to clean up or not. Dunno. Thus you can do a little remedial patching, but basically, some people just leave a cloud of dust in their wake, eh Pigpen?

Just wanted to mention that all that early-learning gets overwritten by steroids come puberty. You know how they ask you how "clean" you want your computer disk when you format it? I guess the puberty-wipe is just a fast-clean and some of those "0"s and "1"s remain to be retrieved after the havoc calms down. But an awful lot of all that careful teaching ... just out the door, gone.

My experience at least.

If you're into teaching, be prepared for a *lot* of repetition.

Me, I'm leaning toward the nature end of the explanation-range. I think you're either born willing to clean up or not. Dunno. Thus you can do a little remedial patching, but basically, some people just leave a cloud of dust in their wake, eh Pigpen?

LOL Autumn.4, we have the clean light. He pays no attention, I have pointed it out with little reaction. I think it was a shrug and walk away thing. As far as early training, I'm sure he has had zero, knowing MIL... he seems a little spoiled, funny I never noticed this before... Since he is home a lot more these days since traveling less for work, I don't even know if I like this man that much!!!! ...ok just kidding... : / But that attitude needs a little work! Twenty seven years, it's amazing the things you never noticed when they were never home for the most part, lol.

Guess I should have NIPPED THAT IN THE BUD..too late now...gotta love Barney, he was right.

I guess it's true that it's wise to pick your battles. But it would be nice to win one once in awhile, lol. You guys are so funny!!!

Oh my goodness, this thread is so funny! I ruled by fear also. My kids feared if the house was not clean it would be infested with ants and rodents! My kids were very naive when they were young. I had them believe bugs would come out at night if there were crumbs anywhere or dirty dishes out. "Matt, there was a juice glass out on the counter this morning when I got up. I put it in the dishwasher. I think we lucked out. I didn't find any bugs. We have to be more careful."

Oh my goodness, this thread is so funny! I ruled by fear also. My kids feared if the house was not clean it would be infested with ants and rodents! My kids were very naive when they were young. I had them believe bugs would come out at night if there were crumbs anywhere or dirty dishes out. "Matt, there was a juice glass out on the counter this morning when I got up. I put it in the dishwasher. I think we lucked out. I didn't find any bugs. We have to be more careful."

Nothing like walking into the kitchen first this morning only to find my son's tennis shoes on the countertop right by the sink. These are the tennis shoes that he works out in. By this, I mean traipsing all over the football weightroom, locker room, and restroom at school. Yuck! He had just laid them there while he took his medicine never giving it a second thought. This thread is the first thing I thought of.

This is the same kid who harbors gatorade bottles under his bed as if he is going to build a home out of them, changes clothes at least 6 times a day, has a complete mixture of clean and dirty laundry strewn about the room, hides cereal bowls in his closet, etc.

However, we do have an open relationship and he gets compliments all of the time by adults who find him completely engaging and well-mannered. He is all of those things and I am extremely proud of him for that.

He finally came around to realizing just how important really good grades are and is doing fantastic this year (junior year, nothing like the 11th hour). He always did okay, but this year he is really doing well. However, he did come in the living room the other day to say that the light was out in his room, and you could tell he was truly perplexed as to what to do. His dad told him he needed to change the bulb and he looked at him as if he was speaking another language. He replied "I don't know how". I knew then that I had possibly failed as a mother. He got a nice life lesson right then starting with learning where we keep the lightbulbs!

I will say that life in relation to school, dexterity, visual perception, etc. has been hard for him as he has several issues. But he has overcome/learned to compensate quite well and is an overall great guy. I will also say that he was an only child for 11 years, and that I "might" have done a little to much for him when he was young!

My DH is the drill sergeant in our house with the motto, "If the kids can do the task then they should be the one doing it." This includes dishes, laundry, yard work, etc. His thoughts are the parents have enough to do (bring home an income, pay bills, meal plan, design a kitchen...) The kids do drag their feet at times but overall they do their jobs. I found them most "difficult" between ages 11-15 and most helpful 16 and up.

With the new kitchen I was so excited about the "zones" that the kids seemed to immediately understand the clean-up zone. So far no problems with dishes in the prep sink. It's only been about three months so maybe we're still in the honeymoon period. :)

This thread is so funny and reminds me of when my children were young. I was more like Doc. My kids learned colors by helping to sort laundry, and the learned to do their own laundry when they were 10. They had a day, and only that day - dirty clothes were worn once or twice. If they left something out, and I picked it up, the item(s) were returned after one week and not before. They learned.

I do NOT think you are being a b*&^h mom Breezy. You're the mom; your job is to teach them to behave in appropriate ways because you want them to grow to be mature, responsible, productive citizens. The reason you see so many children behave inappropriately is because the parents are not providing lessons and consequences and are working so hard to be the nice one that they've forgotten to be the parent. Personally, I wish there were more parents like you; I might still be a teacher if that were the case, but as the years passed, I found that children behaved worse and worse, and conferences were parents who made excuses for their kids or cried (literally) because they said they couldn't make their kids listen - I finally changed careers just short of 20 years.

Things will change when kids become teens, but the lessons you taught when they were younger will make a difference. You'll fight battles that are important to you; they will know when you're not going to back down. And, the great thing is that you will see that when they are adults and when you have grandchildren.

Funny story - when my kids were teens, they had a curfew, usually a bit later than their friends, but very strict nonetheless. One week restriction for each minute late which could be mitigated with a phone call if there were a real emergency. Each of the girls violated the curfew rule one time only; my son more than a few times - not fun times. I used to tell him that "being late is like being pregnant: either you are or you are not. Your actions are choices; all choices have consequences."

Fast forward fifteen years, and my son is a manager for a manufacturing company, and when he got his promotion, one of the biggest problems were people not being on time. So a few weeks into his promotion, he has instructions to clean up the tardy problem or start firing people. Having never fired anyone before, he was loathe to do this, so he decides to have a meeting and talk to his guys.

That night he came for dinner. He told me how much he hated the late rule when he was a teen and thought I was being mean for no reason because all of his friends didn't have to deal with the late issue. But in his meeting, he told the guys "being late is like being pregnant; either you are or you are not. All actions are choices, and all choices have consequences" He both groaned and laughed because he said he couldn't believe he quoted me.

Being a parent instead of a friend is a good thing.

Also thoroughly enjoying this topic!

See below link for more on the thought patterns of the ever elusive (what the hell are they THINKING) teenager.

And, for those with little kids good for you for setting and enforcing limits! Just know that as has been pointed out, you will have to up your game when they reach adolescence. Literally, their brains are warping with hormones, hubris and attitude. It's probably possible there lives somewhere on the planet a teenager who is still being as obedient, respectful and compliant as s/he was when 7 years old. Someday maybe his/her parent will unlock the attic, unfasten the gag, unlatch the clasp on the ankle fetters and let the kid speak up :).

Here is a link that might be useful: All Too True

We were not the strictest parents but we did draw the line and held it. There was much drama over this and my DD often called me "psycho" for not backing down. There were a couple of her friends who seemed to have uninvolved parents who turned a blind eye and at whose homes much mischief took place. By the time they're driving cars, it's pretty hard to control their whereabouts (this was before cell phones and GPS). I was always compared, unfavorably, to the parents who were so permissive.

It was only a year or two out of high school that my DD told me how fortunate she was to have parents who cared enough about her to enforce rules, and how she felt sorry for the girls whose parents were always absent.

So, the message is NOT lost on them, even though they are loath to admit that in the heat of battle.

An interesting topic. Being a grandmother and retired teacher now, I look back on my own parenting and feel our biggest reasons for turning out 4 fine young adults was "pick your battles" and "show respect to others". We did not have the cleanest kitchen, but in the long run was it that important? We were busy doing all the other things with them and a clean counter top was way down on the list. We did not have 2 sinks. Yes I had a teenaged daughter who lived out of 2 laundry baskets - one for clean clothes and the other for dirty clothes. She is now a well adjusted young woman who keeps a clean apartment and we all laugh at those laundry baskets.

I agree with renov8r. Pick your battles, not everything can be perfect all the time. That's a life lesson for both kids and adults.

That said, one of my battles was NOT putting dirty dishes in the prep sink. I'd dreamed of having a prep sink that was always at the ready for cooking, and when I finally got my dream kitchen, I knew that if I wanted it to be that way I'd have to make it happen.

One of my most used tactics in training teens is to make my wishes known, and then if there's a violation, the offender must come out immediately and fix it. So, if there were dirty bowls in the prep sink, someone had to abandon their video game, TV show, book, etc. to come out immediately and load it into the dishwasher. My explanation is that if you don't do it when it's convenient for you, if I find it later you have to do it when I tell you to. It's very effective in my household. That said, it's also very painful for me. I could load that dish in 15 seconds, and it might take 10 minutes to drag the kid out of their room, argue about whether the bowl is actually theirs, and make them deal with it. And sometimes it might actually NOT have been their bowl, but then peer pressure becomes my friend. But if parenting was easy, it wouldn't start with "labor". I'm not terribly strict in everything, I feel that there's a balance here, and my kids are actually very good people, or so I'm told by their teachers and other adults that they interact with.

By the way, this tactic also worked when I was getting people to sort their laundry in the new laundry room. Wanton violations called for coming out and fixing the problem immediately. The occasional whoops gets fixed as I'm loading the machine on laundry day. They now sort their laundry pretty well, and when they're not sure where something goes, they ask.

Cj