whoops just read something about marking the walls a, b c. hope this works and helps.

brenca,

Welcome! This is an awesome place for help and encouragement.

Your "gnarly" drawings (not so much) are the first ones I've looked at that I have understood immediately. Probably because the ones I submitted look very similar... hand drawn. Actually, yours look even better than mine do. The bells and whistles of a program are great, but I personally can't read them very well.

Looks like you've thought it through and planned well, and I have no real critique, just some thoughts. How many versions have you gone through to get to this point? The plan we have now is nothing like the one we first drew; it took us months to come up with one that we both feel good about, and we're still tweaking it. But looking at your plan reminds me of our current one. FWIW, I'll link it below for comparison.

Also FWIW, with our current plan plus the pantry we have planned, I have no qualms about the amount of storage. Have you seen the thread that was started yesterday with great wisdom about thinking through what you really need in your kitchen proper? Words of Wisdom

I have some thoughts/questions and I'm happy to share them. I'm very new at this and not good at seeing the big picture, but getting better. I'll try to come back and share more after a while, but have to put the kids to bed.

My layout but table will go where pantry is drawn and pantry will be where mud room is shown

OK, I'm back. Here's my stab at it. Others will tell you if something I say won't work.

This is all referring to your plan, not the current kitchen.

I have exactly the same distance -- 7'3" -- right now b/t my sink and fridge. Granted, the stove is 6' from the fridge and the sink is 11' from the stove and all the counters are separated from each other by doorways and more. Terrible setup. There is no taking things from one place/zone, pivoting or short steps to put in the next zone. I have to take several steps. Your distances b/t the other two appliances are shorter than mine, but I don't see an easy way to get things from the fridge, clean/prep them, and take them to cook. All those involve more than a pivot or one or two steps.

We ended up putting a rolling cart in the middle of the kitchen, which helped with that, but it always felt like it was in the way, we were always having to shift it one way or another to get around it or into things.

Is the pellet set in a place that it can't be moved? Before I saw it I wondered if you could switch your LR and DR and have columns to replace the wall b/t the LR and kitchen. If no, then forget what I'm about to say. I also realize that the LR is much bigger than the DR, so maybe this could work just to borrow a little space from the LR and keep the DR where you have it. If you have a more formal LR though, you probably won't want to do it this way.

But let's just say it is possible. Here's what I see. I may be biased by my own layout, but you can try it on for size anyway.

- Open the LR to the kitchen with columns for support.
- This would eliminate the run of cabinets by the fridge.
- Start your cabinets on the next (stove) wall. Put a tall pantry cabinet in the corner on that wall. To its left, put the fridge with the side panels. To its left, a run of counter and upper and lower cabinets.
- Turn the corner. Allow enough space for the range; move the window to the left to accommodate it.
- Move the sink to the left to allow recommended counter space b/t stove and sink.
- Instead of a door there, continue the lower cabinets further along. They could go another 2' and still allow more than 36" for clearance to get into the DR without changing that wall.
- Start the window to the left of the MW cabinet and center the sink if you like, or have upper cabinets if you need them, and start the window at the sink. (My vote would be to start them at the stove and go to the end run of cabinets. You can center the windows above this run and center the sink with the windows. If you have any kind of view to the left as you are standing at the sink, the uppers on the left side will drive you crazy (or would me).
- Replace the middle bay with a door.
- In the middle of the kitchen, 42-48" from the counters, run an island parallel to the sink run, 6'x36-39" with seating. This would leave a 42" aisle to the left of the island from the DR through the kitchen.

If it doesn't work to switch the LR and DR, I still have another idea.
- Leave the long wall b/t kitchen and LR alone. Instead, add 18" to the 12" section. Move the peninsula 30" into the kitchen and down to butt up against your new 30" wall. Your doorway to the LR will be 3.5'. Your peninsula will extend in the same direction and to whatever extent you want, leaving clearance.
- Keep the same L-shaped plan as above for your kitchen work zones.
- In the middle of the kitchen, put a smaller island for landing and work space, leaving 42-48" for working aisles, 36" for passage aisles. A 4'x2' island running parallel to the sink would give you some workspace and some storage and a 36" aisle b/t it and the peninsula.
- An alternate to the peninsula: make the cabinets in the DR next to it 12", bring the peninsula 3' out and make it an island, 3.5'x4', with its long middle where the wall is. I'm assuming you will have something for support? Columns or a beam or both?

GW thread on islands with columns
Island with columns

If you like that look, google "Kitchen island with columns" to find more

One other thought: if you were to put the stove on the outside wall, would you consider getting a regular hood? We are trading our OTR MW for a full hood and separate MW. I don't know about your OTR, but mine is no good at clearing the air when cooking and is way too noisy.

I hope that is all clear and somewhat helpful.

bump

anyone else have any input?

I'm curious - you don't mention budget, and everything I've seen about today's RE market indicates that any kind of substantial remodeling of the kind you're doing is not going to give you a good return on such a huge investment of time, energy and $$$. I realize you hate your kitchen and lack storage space, but if you are serious about moving in 5 yrs, you may be throwing money away, and I would hate to see anyone do that.

What if you flipped your laundry room, and shifted your doorways in/out so that you could change your refrig to a U-shaped layout in your current kitchen?

This does depend on being able to switch the W/D connections to your Master Bathrm wall, which may or may not be possible. I've given you an 18" deep x 4' W storage pantry, and the window bay in the kitchen now has built-in bench seats with storage underneath. It could still be an eat-in area with the addition of an oval table, slightly narrower than standard depth, to allow for traffic flow.

There seems to be a bit of wall space in the DR, on the back of the stove wall. I know that open plans are all the rage, but they impair storage capacity. You might be better served by installing a floor-to-ceiling wall cabinet that runs the entire length of that wall, with doors that open to the DR. If you have a 5' entry to the LR, stealing 6-8" of that to give sufficient depth to a storage cabinet is a very minor loss that will add considerable storage.

I just had some built-in cabs installed in an awkward area I have been struggling with for years, and it's one of the best investments I've ever made. It's amazing how much more I can store in the same modest 4' W space by organizing it vertically all the way to the ceiling, and it looks so much better with closed doors. It's really true that shallow but wide/tall storage keeps you from losing stuff that gets hidden in the back!

Anyway, assuming the W/D flipping is possible, it would look something like this:
{{gwi:1610818}}

I am so glad someone else chimed in, because I missed the part about you possibly moving in 5 years. I was going on the assumption that you've already checked the budget, but even if your budget allows, I agree with jkom -- I would only do all that moving and replumbing if I were creating my lifetime kitchen, for me and not with resale in mind.

I don't know enough about working in different layouts to know if the U shape suggested is better than the L shape that you have now. To me, it looks not much different to work in, but it does give more counter space. The 8' span across looks like a long way to me, but is better than almost the same from sink to fridge. A small island, perhaps, in either case?

One great suggestion that I've seen and used is to try out different things with tape on the floor and boxes to simulate appliances, counters, etc. Picture how you use the kitchen and try to move around in your mock-up for a while.

Many people on this forum have made mostly cosmetic changes with incredible effect. If you could post pictures, it might help others to make suggestions about that.

If you're moving that soon, you're wasting money doing that many changes. I'd simply annex the laundry room to add kitchen storage and that's it. Maybe add a small cart/island that could be pulled out to add additional prep area when needed and roll back under a counter when not. Paint, new counters, knobs, lighting, and be under 10K. You wouldn't get any more invested back in such a short term redo in most markets.

Yes, you could do a really super-cheap redo by simply moving your new refrig to face the stove, and adding a new cab with additional countertop where the current frig is now. Then you have no structural or plumbing changes, but a nice long 7' span of countertop where you can prep.

An 8' open floor between the two U-legs should be fine. Mine is 9' of open floor with a small cart serving as a center island, and I can cross my kitchen in 5 short steps - 8' will take just 4 steps.

Oh my gosh, i feel terrible about this! quite some time ago i made this first post requesting help then at that time our family got hit with a couple of serious blows/ life issues and i haven't been able to follow my own post until now. so those of you that replied please accept my sincere apology for not following up! i just found this post. again, apologies to all!

on staying in our current kitchen: we have made up our minds to swap the rooms. we are very unhappy with what we have and feel that we will enjoy the house much more if the kitchen is within shouting distance to the living room. its just too darned frustrating with the current set up and feels so closed off. dh insists even more than me that we move the rooms! :)

jsweenc: thank you for all of your thought and input! i did look into moving the doors to the backyard from the DR to current kitchen, its kinda complicated to explain but the end result is it could be done but would require a major overhaul including changing the roof line, and literally making an extention to the house. hard to explain & would require major $$ to the quoted price just to get a doorway there not counting other issues.

jkom51 and live_wire_oak, thank you again for your advice and trust me i totally understand your thinking. i've gone round and round in my head on the idea of staying in the current kitchen but both of us are very unhappy with the floorplan the way it is. we feel that this will enhance the resale value of the home and we hopefully will be much happier with it while were here. but again, thank you so much for your thoughtful input. its very appreciated!!

i THINK i'm almost to the point of being ready to order but REALLy want to check with you guys first.
i'm going with diamond brand, amarreto cream color with cocoa glaze, 36" tall uppers with crown to ceiling.

here is the layout that i'm considering now but first need opinions. i have some real reservations about a couple of areas.

am really confused about the dining room. i want to have a place to pull up a stool and have really stuggled with this part.


maybe i should start a new post here because i have more questions?:

1.) which would work best for storage/pantry... 2ea 36" wide pantry cabinets with pull outs, or a 6' x 2' closet pantry. i think the cabinets would LOOK best but am wondering if the closet pantry would allow for the most actual storage?

2.) pan drawers: will pans fit ok in a 3db or is a 2db best? (3db = 4", 8", 8") also, should pan db be 36" or is 30" wide enough?

3.) 3" filler or 3" spice pullout next to free standing electric range. am told 3" spice pullout won't work beside fs range because there's nothing for it to attach to/support... so is it best to have the 3" filler next to range or i could ask that the contractor to make a plywood side board thingy for sturdiness for a tiny 3" pullout? don't know how well that would work and am concerned about making the wrong choice.
at the same time am concerned that since the cabs are full overlay, a 3" filler might look odd?

4.) what is the normal distance between recessed lights so i can decide how many?

thats all i can think of for right now but know there are more questions to come.

thank you all again and sorry about the novel!!

I'm sorry to hear about your recent difficulties. I pray that things are better, or working toward resolution.

I would start a new post if I were you. I am in the throes of remodel myself, confined to one room with 3 kids, homeschooled, and dust everywhere outside the doors, while trying to juggle all the obligations I have in addition. I don't think I can give you much good advice right now about layout, but there are definitely those who can, especially if you include the pictures that show your limitations.

I would recommend first reading the Read Me post, if you haven't already, to get an idea of what to include. (Seems like maybe you did that the first time; I remember you coming back and labeling the walls, unless I have you confused with someone else.) So if you present it that way, your layout along with pictures to illustrate what you have to work with, hopefully some of the others who are really good at this will come to your aid.

I also recommend not ordering cabinets until you get some feedback here. If you don't get tons of response, don't be discouraged, but do persist. Bump it up or start a new post if you need to in order to draw attention to it. I'll try to check in and follow the process if I can.