wwu123 - thank you for doing all that work! I have the 328 models and so far really like them (only had them about 6 weeks) I have suspected that the internal heater works on cycles other than sanitize, but you confirmed it. the reason I thought so was because when the washer was filling for a hot wash cycle - only cold was entering the washer. As a matter of fact, the first washer brought to me was taken away the same day by the installers because we thought it had a faulty valve or something. Then when another brought 2 days later did the same thing, I kept it. I started a load on hot/cold, pulled out the dispenser and only felt cold water running in (stuck my hand back in the to feel the water) then after the clothes started tumbling, I paused it and opened the door - the clothes were hot! Now, I kind of think that's stupid to run cold water in, then heat it, but perhaps that takes less energy than using hot water from my water tank - I don't know.

Regardless, it gets my clothes clean, and I love the dryer also. I didn't have pedestals with my other set, and I think they are just the BOMB! LOL

So, yes for anyone considering buying the Samsungs, you've been a great help. I don't think you can go wrong with them, tho there is a post on here where someone is having troubles with the vibration. I have absolutely no issues with that either.

The cold water coming in on the hot cycle is definitely just the initial child safety feature, it's not much water. Then it does the real fill with the appropriate hot or hot/cold (for warm) mix. The internal heater will take a while to heat up water as it's not super powerful.

Also I could verify from the hot water pipes being warm that it was using the hot water. However, the initial standing water in the pipes is usually cold when I start a cycle, and that's what's definitely keeping my hot temps on the minimum end of the range, rather than closer to the 125 deg setting of my hot water heater.

I think that child safety thing happens if you open the door mid-cycle as well - I noticed there's always this short spurt of water after you re-close the door and un-pause it.

I have a Kenmore Elite front-loader (which is a rebadged Samsung WF409) and my (comparatively rudimentary) testing also confirms that normal cycles use the internal water heater.

Whenever you pause the washer the door will unlock unless (1) the water is too high in the tub or (2) the temperature of the water is too high. The door will unlock after pausing at any point during a cycle, as long as neither of these two conditions is true. I've noticed I can unlock the door at any point during a W/C normal cycle. However, if I use a H/C normal cycle with a high soil setting, the door only lets me unlock during the beginning of the wash phase, and then during the rinse phases. I tried several times trying to unlock the door during the wash phase, and it allowed me to unlock the door many times (after the water had finished filling, and no additional water was added to the tub)... but eventually (after 15+ minutes) of washing, the door couldn't be unlocked anymore. This is probably because the internal water heater had kicked in and raised the temperature to a point that meets condition (2), thereby prohibiting the door from being unlocked.

Appreciate all this hard work and the time taken to share your results - thank you folks. I am shopping for a washer dryer. And here I am reading this many years later.

It may or may not be true for Samsung washers on the market today.

Thank you for this.

I think this may satisfy me that nothing is wrong with my plumbing or my machine.

It has been driving me crazy that my clothes never will come out cold at the end of a wash as I often try to wash in cold (save energy, not be so hard on my clothes). I have a model 5200 and no matter what wash mode I choose, provided I can select "cold" for temp, my clothes always come out warm at the end.

Is the internal heater the reason why?

I have tried and check everything (that I can reasonably).

Checked that hoses are not reversed on the back, washed hot to see if things were some how reversed, ...

I even closed off the hot water line to the machine, did perm press wash, cold, and clothes still came out warm.

Many of the cycle modes, including normal, I believe are "steam" cycles so I assume this means hot/warm steam is injected in at some point.

However, even if I choose non steam cycles (e.g. perm press, quick wash, delicates, and "cold' water temp, clothes still come out warm at the end.

I also have a Navien on demand hot water so the water I feel at the beginning is always on the colder side as it would take a while for the hot water to start coming in I think so simple touching the water if I can get the door open I don't think will tell the whole story.

So can anyone confirm this, that something in the Samsung machine and technology is making the clothes warm at the end of the cycle, regardless of what water temp you select?

Thank you for your testing, research and comments.

I have an 8 year old Samsung FL and my door locks and only can be opened at first so I can add a garment at the last minute. I know that Samsung did all they could to surpass the energy-star requirements. I think I tried sutting off the cold water so that the fill would only be hot water, but the machine refused to run until it was on.

Thanks wwu123. Very useful writeup and consistent with my experience with my WF330. My washing machine drains through a line into the sink, so it's easy to feel the temperature of the discharged wash water: never warmer than about 105F. For my laundry purposes, this is barely lukewarm, not hot. Also, during the initial fill for the normal hot cycle it's easy to feel the fill hoses to get an idea of how much enters through the hot and cold lines. Even when the hot cycle is selected, the machine draws roughly equal amounts of hot and cold water. That's just too much cold water for me.

When I bought the machine I understood it had an internal heater, but had no idea how miserly the thing was about running, or how little control the homeowner had for modifying the behavior.

I did the following, but can recommend it only for serious geeks.
I replumbed my laundry area to get more hot water into the machine. (1) Reroute the water to the laundry area sink's hot water tap so it goes right by the washing machine's fill shutoff valve. This allows pre-warming the water in the hot water line by simply running warm water in the laundry sink. (2) Putting in a couple ball valves to force hot water into the machine's cold inlet. I cannot stress enough to not do this unless you really know what you're doing. Done incorrectly it can really screw up your whole house plumbing. This is done ONLY for the initial fill for a normal hot water wash. It's highly undesired to rinse with hot water, or otherwise leave your hot and cold water lines connected. I'll undo this hack if and when I go to sell the house.

I can verify the washing machine runs fine this way. YMMV.

I have the WF331 which is the same as yours except with the addition of "steam" (quotes obligatory). Going back this is not the machine I would have chosen when there are better 120v models on the market (Miele, Electrolux, Bosch). However, I remember watching an interview with the chef Sarah Moulton in her NYC apartment many years ago, before induction was a thing, and she talked about cooking on her electric stove because she couldn't get gas into her unit. It was a far from ideal setup but she continued to cook excellent meals and adapted in the way that only a patient chef could. I have no doubt that what came out of her kitchen was better than what any average cook with a Wolf pro range could turn out.

All this to say that I, like you, have adapted to my machine and have good results. If I want excellent rinsing, I use the "bedding" cycle as it does three deep rinses. For extra hot, "sanitize" works well. For everyday wear I generally use the Heavy Duty cycle as it will give me a reliable 120F on Hot or 100F on Warm. I never use Normal and only rarely use any of the others. I use NerdyShopper's technique of often running a warm/warm quick wash if I want extra rinses. It's very effective.

It would be wonderful to have an array of well-functioning cycles but we live and learn. Glad you found a solution that works for you.

Hi Alex,

Love your post, especially the part about adapting.

Oh, have I ever tried the sanitize setting. It does indeed get the water hot, but too much for what I want my normal washes to be: itturns any spandex into chalk.

The temperature I want is somewhere inbetween, hence the hack, and why I as a consumer am left with wanting just a bit more say in how my washer fills. That said I understand I'm somewhere pretty far out there at the tail end of the distribution.

I repaired a 5-years-old WF330ANW/XAA recently. Testing after finishing the work, I found that the Heavy Duty and Sanitize cycles are the only ones that engage the onboard water heater. I found Bedding and Normal provided ~80°F for Warm and 89°F to 91°F for Hot.

Woolens, interestingly came up with a warmer Warm due to filling higher.

I got approx 115°F on Heavy set at Light Soil level.

The Pure Clean tub cleaning cycle heated to 130°F.

@ dadoes - I cannot go above warm/warm on my Bedding cycle, but have long given up on using Normal for anything because of the low temps. Out of curiosity, were you called to repair the door latch? That seems to be the first to go on these machines.

@ Todd - I agree about sorely missing something "in between." Using Heavy/Hot I can reliably get 120F which is wonderful for many things, and sanitize is of course also good for many loads, but not all. What I would really like is a 130F or 140F wash. On other machines these are called Allergen or Whitest Whites and provide a really nice middle ground HOT.

Alex,

What measurements have you done indicating that Heavy/hot gives 120F?

My WF218 that I did the original testing on is still going strong (just did three loads on this fine Saturday afternoon). My routine has adapted as follows:

-Tankless hot water heater set to 140F. One of the benefits of tankless is no wasted energy on standby losses with higher setting. I don't run higher for risk of scalding my toddler in the tub or shower.

-I don't have a laundry sink, but just noting that if I had one, like Todd above I would prime the hot water to get the standing cold water out of the pipes. I do this for my kitchen dishwasher, which is quite far from the water heater.

-I have the cold water shutoff throttled down. It seems like the Samsung's still pull some from the cold water supply when you are filling for warm or hot. Not sure if this really helps, but I do feel like throttling it down nets more from the hot supply. Like someone mentioned you can't shut off cold completely, plus you need it for the rinses anyway.

-I try to wash in larger loads, as the larger loads fill more water, and thus the cold standing water in the pipes becomes diluted with more hot water.

-Lastly, since we don't wash towels separately, my wife doesn't use the Towels mode, and so when I do the laundry, I've basically taken over Towels mode as my full Manual mode. It has full access to all temps and settings, and will remember my last used settings, which I'll run 80% of the time in H/C, to net about a 120F wash for most laundry including colors.

A 130F or 140F option would definitely be nice, but I've been OK with the 120F washes.

I have on several occasions measured the wash temp on Hot/Heavy Duty using a Thermopen. Reliably 120F

Alex Chicago,

Right, the Bedding cycle won't select higher than Warm.

Disintegrated drum support/spider, not the door latch. There's a thread with pictures here somewhere circa 2/7.

dadoes,

Interesting about the Heavy Duty cycle going to 115F (I presume set at Hot), vs Hot only going to about 90F on the other cycles. I may have to try it.

I'm getting 120F on Towels as my fill temp only because I'm starting with even hotter water, but just assumed per my original testing that all modes would not kick in the heater above 105F. I may run more tests to see whether Heavy Duty or Towels kicks in the heater to keep the temps at 115F throughout the cycle.

Also interesting about the Pure Clean tub cleaning cycle going to 130F - though not necessarily useful for clothes (whether it has proper rinse/spin cycles etc). More curiousity anyway as my WF218 does not seem to have the option...

I have a tankless water heater, had it set at 135°F (maybe once 140°F) for the testing ... still got only 79°F-81°F on Warm and 89°F to 91°F on Hot for Normal and/or Bedding. Both cycles it filled with cold flow for the detergent dispenser flush and to satisfy the initial level, then adds hot to top-off.

Heavy Duty filled with hot then boosted with the heater. I did not run it but the one time at Light soil level so can't say if Normal or Heavy soil levels would heat more.

Pure Clean filled with hot, boosted to 130°F, shut off the heater and dropped to ~121°F then reheated to 130°F.

wow, dadoes is onto something with the Heavy Duty cycle.

First off, it took a few new tests to remember that my 900W heater cannot really heat all that quickly - that's why the European models use 240V insetad of 120V. I thought it'd be clever to lower the tankless water temp, but with starting temps of 100F, 105F, 110F, it generally took the washer at least 12 minutes to raise the temp a mere 5-10 degrees, because of all the extra energy to heat not just the water but the tub and clothes as well, and then since I was running Light soil level, the wash portion would end with the water still heating up.

But finally I ran a Heavy soil load on Heavy Duty with the water heater at 140F, the fill started at 115F, and surprise not only did the heater still kick in, but it heated at least to 125F, maybe even higher (I didn't check all the way to the end of the cycle).

So that's good news, but it also made me realize that on the shorter wash cycles, the heater is just not powerful enough to change the temp more than 5-10 deg during a cycle. So mostly either it will be off all the time, or on all the time - and the incoming fill temp mostly sets what the temp will be during the majority of the cycle.....

The heater is 900 watts at 120 volts. If voltage is different, the heater wattage varies as the square of the voltage. So if your electricity supply is 110 volts, the heater puts out 760 watts. At 130 volts it's 1060 watts. Just wanted to mention that.

Yes, for me since I'm using a Kill-a-Watt to measure both voltage and wattage, mine is at 120V and 900 watts, but others might have different household voltage.