I emailed my questions to Hallowell and got this reply promptly:

There are no indicators for the W1 call for resistance heat. It is a 2nd stage call below 10 deg and used during defrost and emergency shut downs. The W2 is indicated by a 3rd stage call shown by the "+2" blinking. "+2" solid is a 2nd stage from the thermostat. 3rd stage is energized when the temperature falls 3 degrees away from the set point. W1 and W2 calls are completely separate during normal operation. They are 1st and 2nd stage respectively in emergency mode.

When power is lost, there is a potential of the refrigerant mixing with the oil and allowing excessive wear to the compressor. After a power loss, we recommend the thermostat be put into emergency mode to allow the crankcase heaters to warm the oil and remove liquid refrigerant. If the homeowner is not present, the unit can be operated without concern. We have done multiple tests in an attempt to have compressor failure and it did not occur. This is a recommendation to insure a long life of the equipment. There is not an automatic function as the power is off and our control de-energized not allowing a timer to run.

We are confident that this will not be an issue for you. Once again, this is a recommendation to insure a long life of the equipment. Please feel free to contact us with any further questions/concerns you may have.

Mark C. Risinger

Technical Support Specialist

Hallowell International LLC

110 Hildreth St.

Bangor, ME 04401

(207)990-5600 or 1-877-322-2342

Fax(207)990-5602

I'm sure when I saw 120 degrees I was in m2: second stage compressor with no resistance heat. It makes a little more sense now!

Just asking a question here. Has any HVAC tech reading this thread ever measured a temp of 125°F, out of a register no less, with a HP system - without the backup being on?

SR

Hello,

One item I forgot to mention. Our local power supplier (PSNH) offers what they call a HeatSmart program. It works like this - if you have electric heat (which the Acadia is) and have an approved backup heat source (like a wood or pellet stove), you qualify for a reduced electricity rate to run your heating system (includes the Acadia unit, the blower and the resistance heat). In exchange for the reduced rate (which they say is about a 24% savings), they can shut off your electricity to your system during peak usage for a period of 4 hours. This has only happened a couple dozen times over the last several years. The bonus is that the Acadia also acts as central A/C in the summer, so that usage is discounted as well. Here's a link with more info:

http://www.psnh.com/Energy/Home_Efficiency/HEATSMART.asp

"Just asking a question here. Has any HVAC tech reading this thread ever measured a temp of 125°F, out of a register no less, with a HP system - without the backup being on?"

- Not a tech. My air source heat pump puts out 101F air at 50F ambient, which drops to 91F air at 25F ambient. With the 15kw aux strips energized, I get >125F from the registers.

Take care.

Re: garyg

Thanks Gary, thats about what I expected.

Re: cpeters99

If I may impose on you, for the sake of experimentation, to please turn off the breaker for the backup and to repeat the temperature measurement again at the plenum and at the register furthest away from the HP.

Thanks,

SR

Does anyone have experience with contractors in Northern NJ for this system?

Hello GreenGirl! We need to replace our heat pump in the not too distant future as it is getting some age on it. I would love to have geothermal because of the low "noise" factor (our unit is right outside our bedroom window) but am looking into the lower cost alternatives first! :) Your posts on the Hallowell products have me intrigued.

How do you find the noise level compared to older model heat pumps. Mine is about 9 years old now and it's so loud it wakes me up every time it cycles on and off.

BTW, we also live in Virginia. We are in the Blue Ridge mountains at about 2700 feet so it is about 15 degrees cooler than the Piedmont sections of Virginia.

Thanks for any comments you may have. I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has installed one of these. Nita

NIta,
I almost can't give you a definitive answer to your question since our unit is on the opposite side of the house from our bedroom. Except for when we are in our great room watching TV etc., we never have heard our air "conditioners". I can say that it does not seem as loud as our previous compressor for the AC either in the great room or outside right next to it. The air handler inside is DEFINITELY quieter than our old one. Standing right next to it, you almost can't hear it all.
Do you have a two story house? If so, then the issue would be not so much in any case.
We are in the Shenandoah Valley so it isn't bad at all. So far we are tremendously pleased both with the unit and with the Hallowell people. They have gone way above and beyond what any big company would do with questions, problems and after the sale help. They are real human beings, which is rare these days!
If you want more info, you can email me at chckandco@aol.com.
You can probably email or call Hallowell and get some sone ratings for the unit and then compare to the sone ratings of your present unit.....Have you visited their web site?
greengirl

Hi Nita,

I would liken the outdoor compressor sound to that of a refrigerator in the house. There's a slightly louder noise when the compressor kicks on, but then it quiets down after a couple of seconds. Our unit is outside the back of the house and I can hear it when we're inside on the 1st floor. It's not loud enough to wake me up, though. I can barely hear it on the 2nd floor. I live in NH, so we've had some cold weather lately. I can tell you the unit heats the house nicely.

Greengirl is right - the air handler is almost silent. I had to look at the system lights to verify it was on!

Hi All,

I just got my November electricity bill and thought I would share the change I've seen. My November 2007 bill, which was when I had a traditional propane FHA furnace for heat, was $102. My November 2008 bill, using the Acadia, was $184. Our non-HVAC electricity usage has remained the same. Therefore, I can assume it basically cost me $82 to heat my 3,500 sq' home using the Acadia from late October through late November. My propane cost was zero :-)

Re: dsilvest

Still sounds like a lot to me. Where are you located, what do you pay per kWh?

SR

I installed a geothermal heat pump 2 years ago in the Shenandoah Valley, Virginia (1,700 ft el.) and love it. I had air source heat pumps in North Carolina and the noise drove me crazy when I was inside and outside the house, even with a new Trane unit. The air source units basically run continuously in the winter. My wife always complained about the cold air coming out of the registers, but not with the geo unit. The silence inside and outside is golden. Electric is 8 cents/KW with all fees included, heating and cooling is $350/yr during two full seasons. I installed a 2 1/2 ton closed loop ground source geo unit for my 2,100 sg ft house with lots of windows and a winter thermostat setting of 71 degrees. I sized it for 85% worst weather and it costs $3,000 more than a similar air source heat pump. The bids for the geo unit varied by $9,000 so get several bids. I ended up with a basic commercial WaterFurnace unit w/o bells & whistles. The geothermal units are suppose to last 20 years vs. an air source units about 10 years. Make certain to seal the duct work with mastic. I disconnect the heat strips until the weather gets really cold, then I keep a constant temp to keep the strips from coming on. The geo keeps producing heat regardless of the temp, My geo unit needs a bit of boost when the temps are about 22 degrees since I right-sized the unit to work that way. It was another $3,000 to get a larger unit which is a lot of heat strip usage compared to a total use of $350 for the entire year. A colleague has been installing commercial units for schools and hospitals for 30 years. My neighbor installed an air source heat pump and propane gas furnace unit for $10,000 more than a regular air source heat pump. I don't understand the logic.
Hope this helps.

Hi all,
My Acadia heat pump was installed in our new home in southern Maine this summer. We heat about 1300 sq ft of the house as the 2nd floor is unfinished. We have gas appliances and gas hot water. We pay .16 per Kwh for electricity, which I feel is a lot.
$89.00 for Sept - October 21.
$119.00 for October - Nov 21.
I am not looking forward to the colder months to come but so far we are doing alright. We keep the heat set at 66. I dont think the heat pump is the cheapest way to heat but sure looked good when oil was over $4.00 per gallon

Hi SR,

I'm not sure of our exact electricity rate - I'll need to check my bill tonight. We live in southern NH and actually had some snow flurries yesterday :-(

In our last house, which was built in 2004 and is in the same town we are now, we had propane FHA heat. In one season I calculated that we used 1,100 gallons of propane. At minimum $3/gallon, that's $3,300 for the heating season. Take away a bit for hot water and dryer use and I figured we spent about $450-$500/month (Oct through March) for home heating. I'm still curious to see how the Acadia performs in the deep winter, but so far so good.

Is your Acadia the 4 ton unit? Do you have 2 zones? I had installed in September, and received my electric bill from 10/15 - 11/15. House is 1400+ sq ft 1st floor and 450+ in second floor. Results not very good, it was 2nd highest kilowatt usage for year. The installer is coming back tomorrow to replace one of the thermostats. I've been working with Hallowell the last 2+ weeks on this. I live in Salem, NH. I'd like to get in touch with you.

The is a simplistic solution but make certain that in step one of the installer configuration that the thermostats are set at HP2 so that they make use of the technology that the Acadia brings to bear. Ours got mistakenly set wronglya nd for a little over a week, we had a similar experience till I reread the manual and discovered it and changed it to the correct setting (upon corroboration from Norm at Hallowell). It has been flying great ever since, with our kwh usage about the same as a normal hot day here in the summer, which is good since the naysayers were saying it would be more.
I will post a more extensive explaination later.

Yes I checked both when 1st installed, they were set at HP2. However one of my thermostats is a white rogers with hallowell logo and other because of shortage has the white rogers without logo. I'm told that the one without logo needs to be replaced. Installer is coming to replace.

Not sure I understand why this will be solution. I keep bringing up the fact that the EWC zone panel for zone 1 does not have COM wire attached but zone 2 does. I've not received a explanation on whether this is okay or not.

As you can tell by the tone of this I'm not very confident. I've been back on oil for over two weeks which I can run separately. Any help you can provide would be appreciated.

Hi jimscanlon,

Our house has 3 zones and we have the smaller Acadia unit (36C I believe). I think our first zone is about 1700 sq', 2nd zone is 1300 and 3rd zone is 500. Our HVAC guy just came here yesterday actually to adjust the thermostats. We found that when all 3 zones were on, the thermostats would get confused and the "Call for Service" indicator would light up on all 3. Then the system would run on just the resistance heat ($$) until all 3 zones hit their temp setting and shut off. Then the Call for Service indicator would turn off.

After speaking with Hallowell, the problem is with the model of the White Rodgers thermostats we have. The HVAC guy had to come back and reconfigure them to HP1 and swap a couple of leads. So far, the issue has not come back.

I strongly suggest a call to Norm or one of the other techs at Hallowell for a solution from the horse's mouth. Norm is beyond tremendous and very helpful and will know instantly what the problem is that an inexperienced person cannot. Norm, please forgive me for suggesting this but this is where you soar and can make a difference in sales!

Hi greengirl and dsilvest,
Well my replacement thermostat got replaced yesterday, hopefully I will see an improvement. The HVAC guy and I did talk to tech support (Norm) just to make sure the install was in order. He confirmed this to be. Just so you all know I was in constant contact with Hallowell for over two weeks on my issue. If it was as simple as replacing the thermosat then I say why did I have to wait for over two weeks? This could of cost a small fortune waiting for the solution. Of course I still had not deinstalled my 3yr old oil burner since I've not found a reasonable cost solution for hot water.

Does anyone know what the display indicators are on the thermostat and what they mean. The documenation and Hallowell web site does not provide this information.

Such as "Stage 1".

Just as a side note I see that dsilvest mentioned he had problem with thermostat. But I was wondering what the HP1 setting is. I'm only aware of HP2.

Hi jimscanlon,

My hallowell documentation had an insert that describes what each of the thermostat settings mean. I believe HP1 was for a single stage heat pump and HP2 is for multi-stage. Our HVAC guy had to set our thermostats to HP1 (per direction of Norm from Hallowell) and swap some leads. So far the issue has not returned.

Re: hot water - take a look at Rinnai tankless units. We've used one for 4 years now and are very happy.

I have mountains of stuff that I printed out when researching, which I will dig up. I know there is a chart that may have been somewhere on the Hallowell web site that show exactly what is engaged at each stage of operation. I'll post later. I wanted to find it again for myself to see how it factored in to what was going on here. I'll post later once I find it.

How can a multistage heat pump work at HP 1??? Although I would imagine if Norm says so, it is. Did you talk to HIM at first,or someone else, and that might be why it took so long to resolve???

Hi greengirl,

The multi-stage HP works at HP1 because of the lead-swap that was done. All the changes were at Norm's direction. He said White Rodgers had done something incorrectly based on Hallowell's requirements and that this switch corrects the issue. Norm really does know his stuff.

For the thermostat settings, see page 21 on the below link:

http://www.loraxec.com/media/Acadia_-Install_Manual-_May_12_2008.pdf

I am having a 4 ton acadia unit installed in 2 weeks. my house is air tight, super efficient gold medallion home. I chose to go with the acadia over a geo thermal unit. (8k price difference). house is 3300sq ft up and 3300 sq ft down. every wall is insulated in the house and the basement has no heat at all and it stays at 53 degrees in the winter. Am i making the right decision. I am nervous and second guessing I still dont see much feedback on this unit. I am in northern ohio.

thanks everyone
jp

Hi jp,

I think you're making a great decision. I've had good luck with the unit so far. I don't think their marketing efforts have been very strong, and that's probably why you haven't heard much about them. I do think their stepping it up a bit as I've seen references to Hallowell in my last 2 This Old House magazines.

-Dave

Re: jp

For $8k difference I think your decision not to go geothermal is seriously flawed. First of all the geothermal HP will easily last twice as long, the ground loop will last virtually forever. Secondly, when it comes time to cash out and sell youll get a premium for your property with a geothermal installation. Who will have heard of or care about a (then) old Acadia conventional air-source HP?

IMO

SR

Such a hate on for the Acadia! Can you point me to the source of the life expectancy and resale value of an Acadia please?

thanks for the replies, I hope im making the right decision. as far as the geothermal goes. I have heard, more horror stories than good ones about geo. the deciding factor for me was when my friend who owns a major electric company in the area, installed a geo unit. he paid more than what I was going to pay and his house is only 2800sq ft and no finished basement. he brought in the "best" and biggest geo guy who does more than anyone. the result is, he is putting in a pellet stove this year. his electric bill went up to budget 300 bucks a month. last year before geo he paid 270 a month to heat. he said it is OK. and wishes he didnt do it. the ony good thing he has to say about it is that his house is an icebox in the summer. He renovated this entire property, new windows doors insulation etc...... this is the second person i know that has invested in geothermal and doesnt care for it. the other person is my uncle, he had a problem with the loop, then a problem with his waterfurnace, it broke 2 times the first year. he wishes he put in 2 smaller units instead of one big one, for when it breaks down, and once again he said it is OK... I am looking for a realistic ROI of 8 years, on the ACADIA. if the geo hypothetically is 50 dollars cheaper a month to run, my ROI on that extra 8k I invested on geo is 13 years. the ductwork is costing as much as the acadia unit alone, so that extra 8k is a big stretch considering...

thanks everyone
jp

Re:kvan

"A recent study by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency showed that geoexchange systems generally have the lowest life-cycle cost of all systems available today. The study also shows that geoexchange systems have the lowest impact on our environment. And consumers rank their comfort and satisfaction with geoexchange systems higher than all others. While a higher initial investment is required, the investment is paid back through low energy bills (enhancing resale value), excellent family safety, and real comfort."

Source: 2003 GeoExchange Heat Pump Consortium http://www.geoexchange.org/about/compare.htm

The correct link today would be:

http://www.geoexchange.org/geothermal/publications/cat_view/62-fact-sheets.html

Then download Comparing Heating Systems & GeoExchange Fascinating Facts

"Geothermal heat pump systems, also known as "geoexchange," are the most energy-efficient, environmentally clean, and cost-effective space conditioning systems available, according to the Environmental Protection Agency."1

1Environmental Protection Agency, Space Conditioning: The Next Frontier, Office of Air and Radiation, 430-R-93-004 (4/93)

(If you want chapter & verse)

BTW: Where did you see hate? Any dissenting opinion is hate? (Typical liberal thinking!)

SR

I'm glad you dug up 5 year old information. Very informative. I think I'll goto a cigarette company to ask whether smoking is good for me or not. I'm sure they have a study there too.

I still don't see anything specific comparing geo to cold climate heat pumps, nor do I see actual numbers. Sure it could be "the most energy-efficient", but it's not saying whether it's 100% better or .1% better.

Take a trip to Europe the answer will soon become apparent.

Ductless Split Systems will be the real deal sooner or later.
several companies have a wall mount that looks like a wall picture mounted on the wall. Check it out.
(1)No temperature loss in ducts.
(2)100 percent Zone Control
(3)No to little Noise
(4)requires little or no additional Electrical.
(5)If one breaks down you are covered by other zones.
(6)Buy one per year to avoid major cash lay out.
(7) Install yourself and save.
(8)Remote Control
(9)Very reliable
(10)only requires a two inch hole in the wall.
(11)No I dont sell them I am retired from the trade after 40 years in the trade

I will have to pay more attention to the Hallowell booth this year at the ASHRAE/AHR show in Chicago at the end of January.

Googe,
Ductless certainly have the application here in the US however keep in mind in Europe, (been there 5 times), the cooling hours are limited and people are generally more tolerant of temps there because of their energy saving mindset (Electric costs are 2-4X more than ours)

The picture looking units (art cool) were originally introduced by the LG group, who are Korean, nowhere near Europe.

"Install yourself and save"
What consumer today holds EPA certification, has gauges, freon, evacuation pump, brazing torch and recovery machine on hand? Little or no electric? what supplies outdoor unit with 220V?

It is -10C(14F) outside and it is 21C(70F) and the wind is blowing off the atlantic ocean here in Nova Scotia Canada. My Hallowell 4.5 ton cold weather heat pump is heating my 3000 sqft home as it has for the past 1 1/2 years at a electricity saving of $2000. per year. Don't tell me that Hallowell cold weather heat pumps don't work because I have proven they do.

Re: novascotian2008

Thanks for the update. Everybodys air-source heat pump can still work at -10°C in Canada. Please give us the update at -25°C (-13°F). Please include whether the backup is on or not. Then I could be impressed

BTW: Im glad its working well, that youre satisfied, that youre saving $2k/yr. and have reduced your carbon emissions.

I have had my heatpump in operation for 1 1/2 years now so this is the second winter for its operation. I have experienced a number of days at -25C and my house was maintained at 21C. The suplemental heating coils in my heat exchanger are completely disconnected. I am using only the heat pump.

Re: novascotian2008

If you can satisfy your stat set point at -25°C - without backup - then I am impressed!

SR

This has been a great thread. Thanks to all for participation. I'll be very interested to get the usage data through this heating season.
I worked with a number of clients this last year doing analysis for replacement furnaces. People were getting rid of fossil fuel systems and I was helping them select and size replacement heat pumps. The jobs also included insulation and air sealing as we wanted a whole house solution, so before and after costs would be misleading.
In my own house, I have a high efficiency ground source heat pump. However, had the Acadia been available when I installed mine, I would have gone with it. More on why later.

In working with my clients, we wanted to look at the cost/benefits of the systems being compared. These included ground source, two stage air source, Acadia, and oil furnace. The houses were modest, about 2000SF and moderately tight and insulated. Nothing extreme but not too bad after being sealed up.

For the analysis, we used the bin temperature data for our region (Eastern PA) and I computed operational times/cost for each bin. For those interested, the bin data tells how many hours each season the temperature is in a narrow temperature range, typically 5 degrees. In this way, if you know the heat load of the house, and the performance curve of the heat source, you can compute the approximate operational costs and predict when backup heat is needed etc. I've verified the calculations with actual performance where the data have been available, so this is a reality-based evaluation.

One of the huge problems we've had in our climate with heat pumps is convincing the HVAC contractors to actually size the systems correctly for the heating load, rather than the cooling load. Here, we need about twice the heat as cooling, so if you follow convention and size for cooling, you vastly undersize the heating system. This was done historically for single speed heat pumps so that they could properly satisfy the air conditioning requirements. Nowadays, with multi-speed heat pumps, you should size for heating, at least in our climate. That works out very well, as it allows the cooling load to be efficiently dealt with using the first stage compressor, then the heating load can be handled by the first or second stages as required.

For our climate, I've been designing to get as low a balance point as reasonable for the conventional heat pumps. As noted, most HPs were undersized and so they had a balance point of about 40F. At that temperature, most of the winter around here requires the backup heating to be on, making them cost ineffective. This has been the case even with good two stage HPs. So, by pushing the balance point down below 30F, I can get their systems to heat their homes without backup heat for the majority of the heating season. To further increase efficiency, I've promoted staged electric backup. Most HVAC installers just install a 15-20kw heat strip. In fact, if you size right, you can start with 5kw down through the low 20's, then kick on the full heat strip only as needed for cold temperatures. This optimizes the HP energy use considerably.

Doing everything rigorously like this is really key to achieving high efficiency out of a heat pump. The devil's in the details as they say.

All that said, the attractive thing about the Hallowell is that it's designed for the heating load of colder climates. Its first stage cooling is actually half the output of the second stage. This lets you get near optimal output for the cooling season. A conventional, two-stage heat pump has about 30% less cooling than heating, so for cooler climates, you tend to be a bit oversized on the cooling side if you really push the heating output. The Acadia goes one further with the booster compressor, jacking up the heating output further, so getting the details exactly right, like with a conventional 2-stage HP, isn't quite as critical. The unit itself does the switchover as needed and the compressors are capable of handling the heat load to cold temperatures before turning on the electric backup. To me, this is a big advantage of the Acadia vs. a conventional 2-stage HP AND vs. a ground source system.

More on this, as the ground source people will likely holler. In moderate and cold climates, the cooling output from a ground source system (single or two-stage) will VASTLY exceed the cooling load of the house, leading to really poor quality cooling. A single stage ground source system is even worse. If you look at the performance curves, you can verify this. Even stage one of a ground source system, when used at typical ground temperatures, outputs nearly the full output capacity of the ground source system. In a heating dominated zone, even one as mild/hot as the mid Atlantic states, you will find that a ground source system will provide sub-optimal cooling if sized appropriately for the heating loads.

Even if you size conservatively, like I did, for a heating load down to about 20F, the ground source system will still blast out too much cold air for all but the hottest temperatures, assuming that you have a well-insulated home. The Acadia, on the other hand, will provide a much better air conditioning capacity, and a conventional HP will provide decent AC.

The other issue with a ground source system is that even the best installers have to balance operational efficiency with installed cost. In our region, very few go open loop, which is the most efficient configuration, due to maintenance issues. Instead, they go closed loop, vertical boreholes.

I've had a half dozen clients get quoted on this configuration in the last 6 months. For a ground source system, 3-5 tons, the bore drilling cost was in the $12k-$15k range and the ground source system itself cost about the same, depending on model. So the installed cost was typically $25k-$30k for a retrofit application (existing ducts, new variable speed air handler, compressor, and drilling). For these homes, winter projected operational costs were very low, in the $350-$500 range under optimal conditions. Keep in mind that these are approximate costs in the expensive mid-atlantic region. But I've talked to numerous people and this is a very typical installed cost around here.

Now, getting back to my previous comment about balancing install cost with efficiency. Because well drilling has gotten so expensive, they're teaching ground source installers to install less bore hole depth. I attended a ground source workshop recently, given by the leading ground source consultant and college in the region and they were endorsing quite short boreholes, but noting that the seasonal ground temperatures would suffer. For example, while ground source systems are spec'd at about 50F loop temperature, as the season progresses, the ground temperature drops or rises, due to a variety of parameters (water table movement, ground conductivity, system run time etc.) As such, with these shorter ground loops, you have to actually plan for ground temperature of around 32F during the winter and 80F during the summer (again, this is very dependent on the exact system operational parameters). But these are very typical parameters.

For some real-life numbers, I installed temperature probes on all the boreholes in my ground source system, and within the first month of hard winter operation, the ground temperatures dropped below freezing and stayed there for the rest of winter.

So, in REAL LIFE operation, many ground source systems are operating at temperatures that are at or below the outside air temperature, so their COPs drop considerably. Instead of 5 you might get 3 or lower. The one positive thing is the there's no defrost cycle. That's the big win for these systems. You never have to deal with the cold blast every hour when the system goes to defrost like you do with an air source system.

These are the things that ground source advocates either don't want you to know or don't know enough to know themselves. But keep that in mind. If you install a closed loop ground source system with typical loop configurations, your performance will be vastly lower than the numbers may indicate.

So back to air source systems. In this climate, our winter air temperature may vary from 25-40 in Nov-Dec and drop to 15-30 for Jan and feb. Again, you look at the bin temperature data and it tells the temperature distributions through the year.

Comparing a top of the line two stage HP with the Acadia, you find that the conventional air source systems are really efficient! They maintain a high COP. Take a four-ton system running at 30F. The system runs at a COP of almost 3.5! Even at 20F, including defrost cycle derating, the COP is above 3.1. So a modern, two-stage air source heat pump really performs. This is actually much better than the COP of the Acadia, so when I've done my cost analysis, these systems, which around here cost about $10k installed, have operational costs of maybe $750-$850/winter. This includes backup electric heat strip requirements.

As it turns out, in this climate, the Acadia is about the same operational cost, with a quoted install cost of $14k-$16k. As noted, the Acadia has some benefits however. You don't have to be as rigorous about the sizing because it has more stages and is able to pump out the heat without the electric backup. The delivered air temperature is higher than the conventional HP. And the summertime load match is better than any other system.

So, in this climate, when you run the numbers, you find that the air source heat pumps cost $300-$500 more to run per year than a properly installed ground source system for an installed cost of $10-$15k less. The ground source might last 20 years, while the air source is typically rated at 15 years (not 10 like was earlier mentioned). So, if you're looking at pure financial figures and a 10 year time scale, you get:

Ground source, closed loop: ~$30k
Two speed air source: ~$18k
Acadia: ~$22k

Again, this is for a typical mid-Atlantic state. The colder the climate, the more the balance can shift to ground source and Acadia. It also doesn't take into account the comfort issue. Ground source - no defrost, more even heating, oversized cooling. Conventional air source - defrost cycle cold blast, heating drops more with temperature, moderately good cooling. Acadia - not sure about defrost cycle, heating increases with decreased temperature due to booster compressor, excellent cooling.

Sorry to overwhelm with all this information. But this is a topic that I've been analyzing/studying for some time now and I wanted to get it out there for others to share.

Can anyone out there explain to me what the following reading on my Acadia thermostat is.

STAGE 1+2 (+2 is blinking)

I'm seeing it a lot when the temperature drops. It is about 18 degrees farenheit right now.

Thanks,

tedsan, thanks for that post.
This has been a most informative thread.

Hi jimscanlon,

I believe your thermostat is saying your 2nd stage compressor is operation. It sounds like you have a slightly different thermostat than I do, but mine blinks "System On +2" when the 2nd stage is on.

Also a note - I had noticed the system was running almost all day over the last couple of days. The set temperature was maintained, but I found it odd. I called Hallowell and they said this was normal and actually preferred since a constant run is less wear and tear on the compressors than a frequent start/stop.

Hi dsilvest,

Do you have total kilowatts usage on your last bill?

Yes your thermostat readings are different. You may want to check about the blinking. When mine blinks on the +2 it is using resistance heat.

Also, I have my email address posted. If you would send me email, I can send you all the correspondance I've had with Hallowell. Since you are in New Hampshire we would have lot in common due to same weather temperatures.

Merry Christmas, Jim

I signed up just to post on this thread. I have a lot to say about this. I try to buy American i.e. USA manufactured but I went for Fujitsu ductless heat pump for central Calif. Why can't Americans make this great product, works down to 0 F which we never see here, very efficient, quiet, makes it's own three-phase to be efficient, 19 SEER, makes it's own variable frequency drive AC for it's motors, silent, inexpensive, a dummy like me can install and charge it, remote control does it ALL. A FABULOUS product. max size 30KBTU. Never need to revert to resistive strip heating. Appears bullet proof like a 1987 Fujitsu DMP printer I've used for decades. come on America!

"Ground source, closed loop: ~$30k
Two speed air source: ~$18k
Acadia: ~$22k"

Wow. My 3-ton 14 SEER, 9 HSPF, Goodman heat pump was installed last summer for less than $4k. Single speed Copeland scroll compressor. 10 year all-parts warranty on the system. I could get 4 to 7 systems for the prices quoted above. To each his own.

Take care.

Hi, I've been sitting back waiting a couple months before I say anything about my new Acadia. I got my electric bill today and since the system was installed on 10/10/08 I have used approximately 3,000 kwh to heat my home. November and December have been quite cold with a week of temps in the teens before xmas, dropping as low as 0. I live in Erie, Pa in an old 2100 sq ft home. I was running the full system, with 3 auxillary resistance heaters, but the middle of december I shut them off, running totally on the heat pump through the coldest weather. The system had no problem heating my home to 65 at night and 68 to 70 (usually 70) during the day. The only real problem when it gets that cold is the defrost cycles become more frequent and blows quite cold without the resistance heaters. Anyway, my electric is relatively cheap here at 9 cents per kwh so it looks like I've spent about $270 to heat my home so far this season!!! This is a great improvement over fuel oil, even at todays abnormally low prices!!

I live in southern maine, heat 1300 sq feet of new constuction with the acadia.
Electric bill for Nov - Dec $220.00
Not bad, but the heat pump started blowing cold air when the temps warmed up to 45-50. Had to shut the power off at the breaker to reset the system. The unit started heating again. I have found the acadia to be very tempermental which worrys me when five year warrenty runs out.

Does anyone with an acadia have a problem with icing on the outdoor unit coils in extended cold temps? It's been 20 and below for the last 2 weeks and my acadia shut down because the coils were iced solid about 10" up. I'd noticed the performance decreasing lately but didn't realize why. It seems to defrost properly but can't melt the thick ice that refreezes immediately. It works good after I defrosted it with a torpedo heater, but I wouldn't think I should have to do this. My dealer said it may be necessary in cold temps!?!??

Contact Hallowell directly. They've got some incompetent installers, so I'd only trust what Hallowell tells me directly. Clearly the guy who you're working with doesn't know what he's talking about. Hallowell extols the virtues of the unit for working in frigid temperatures.
Chances are, the installer didn't properly charge the system (fill it with "refrigerant"). If under-charged, it will freeze up too quickly.
If they service it, tell them that you want to keep a log of the "superheat" and "subcooling" numbers. Any time the system is serviced, insist on these numbers for your log. When you call Hallowell, ask them for these numbers.

good luck!

With a torpedo heater my Tempstar could probably produce good temps down to zero or so. Maybe get two and I could have a two stage! Ok all kidding aside.. I hope they get the bugs out of the Acadia because the design is intriguing.

I hope they get your squared away in short order!

Best of luck,

I asked my installer about the refrigerant charge and this is what he said:

The charge is 12 pounds of R410A for the system and 10 of lines + .6 ounces per foot for additional line lengths.

We do not test super heat or sub-cooling on a new Acadia system start-up. We do on any other heat pump or AC system we install. The Acadia system is unique in that it does not come with any refrigerant from the factory, only a nitrogen charge. Per Hallowell instructions (told to me from Duane Hallowell himself), we weigh in the R410A charge according to the manual and start the unit, no further testing is required. Testing super heat and sub-cooling verifies proper charge. We always run these tests on any other system because we do not take for granted that the factory installed the right amount or that some has not leaked out by the time we get the units.

With Acadia systems, we would only test sub-cooling afterwards if we suspected a problem with the refrigerant system.

Does this sound right because they treat me as if this were my fault!

I live in the NE (burlington, MA) and I'm spending close to $600 per month on oil + about $140 per month on electricity for the winter months to heat my home of about 2200 SQ FT. I have forced hot water baseboard heat and I've been thinking about the acadia as well others (freewatt, geothermal, redo current install, electricity only).

Are there any websites out there that collect monthly utility charges for customers of various heating technologies? I think that before I make a decision to change out my heating system, the first think I want to look at are facts about monthly heating that a number of people are experiencing using the different technologies.