Dcarch, I've been considering ordering an infrared thermometer for a long time, thanks for providing a few uses for it that I hadn't thought of! (a little extra justification never hurts!) Jadeite, thanks for pushing me over the edge by providing the link to the sale at Thermoworks. I've purchased a few items from them, and I'm on their mailing list. I don't know why I didn't get that email! DebraK, I had and threw out a number of digital thermometers because I couldn't trust them to be accurate. I asked for, and received, my Thermapen for Christmas a year ago and I use it all the time. It's accurate and reliable, and best of all it has a very slim, very sharp probe that can be used on thin things, like a steak, thin pork chop, or pounded chicken breast or even fish (though it's easy to tell when fish is done). I have also used it to find out how hot foods are in a warming tray on my Thanksgiving buffet--and also how cold a salad is, so I know when to put it back in the fridge. I've also used it to measure the temp of hot water for brewing green tea or coffee, and the temperature of the water going into the fish tank, and various other things. It's one of the most used things in my kitchen, and I count it very much worth the money spent. Cj

Okay, I've finally managed to read all this thread. I love the idea of that portable timer, but of course, a lot of timers are portable. The stove in my Tahlequah house has a timer that only beeps once, so if I don't hear the one beep, I'm out of luck. Having a timer that goes with me wherever I am would be cool. Early in this thread someone mentioned a bench scraper. I love mine. I actually ordered my Christmas present, a dough rising bucket. Since I needed to order some ingredients from KA anyway, it made sense for me to go ahead and order what DH was going to give me anyway, to save shipping. :) As for the above mentioned microplane with a tray - I learned an obvious trick from a Bobby Flay show once. I felt silly for not thinking of it myself. It's simply to turn the microplane so that the blades are at the bottom and the sides are pointing up, like a U. Then you can grate and catch the zest or whatever in the microplane. I've done it that way ever since. I lucked out at an estate sale the other day and found a 8" Henckles chef's knife for $10. I missed out on the Le Creuset they had. As I walked into the kitchen, a woman was laying claim to the entire set they had for sale. Oh, well, she saved me a bunch of money! Still on my list for Santa is one of those scraper paddles for my KA mixer. Sally

Suburbanmd- Thank you for brainstorming for me. One bathroom does not get the hot and cold backflow. However, the hotest water I ever get is 105-107 degrees on any faucet. So running a hose wouldn't work. Homepro01- I have considered a small tankless, but I don't have the electric capacity at the breaker box. I have a small DC one available; however my washer/dryer breaker is too small to not trip if I install the tankless and run it while the dryer is running. My washer is AC and my dryer is DC. I may have an electrician take a look as I have access to the wiring as the ceiling is dropped with an access panel to a utility space above my ceiling. Dadoes- I might look into a small AC tankless, but the lack of power seems very limiting. Thank you for giving the details. My personality is that I get stubborn when something should be a certain way and can be relentless till it is fixed. I am struggling with those feelings as I don't want to spend my money to get decent hot water. I already pay maintenance, serve on the board, and do the landscaping for the complex at no cost. I feel if I can't get my needs taken care of what about all the others who aren't on the board. There is a saying in Spanish- Sólo el que ensaya lo absurdo es capaz de conquistar lo imposible. Which means-Only one who attempts the absurd is capable of achieving the impossible. Guess that is what I am trying to do. Sorry for the rant, but I am fed up with a lack of assistance with most repairs in this complex.

“ I posted all of the numbers on here a couple of years ago from IR measurements of two Wolf's and two BS's. You'd need to search back through my posts.” It is up to the person making a statement to supply supporting data. I would mostly be looking for the specs for the thermostat given by the company to determine how much swing they say it has at least as a starting place. IR measurements have some problems with inaccuracy. The cookware forum on chowhound has had quite a few discussions about this. This is one. https://www.chowhound.com/post/measuring-pan-surface-temp-ir-wrong-choice-1041669 “Sealed vs Open are commonly used terms that most people understand. I agree that Capped vs Uncapped might be much better terminology. I'll leave it to you to change the culture on these terms.” I would say most people misunderstand the generic term “open” because it used so nonspecifically. It has a meaning. There have been arguments here as to what that means. You only have to look at marketing from various manufacturers to see confusion and myth. I would never use bad terminology just because that is what most people do. People come here, to an appliance forum, to get information and we do them no favors if we don’t use the correct terminology to help them look at each specific aspect of the burner and see how it contributes to the way they cook. As the saying goes these days, “If you know better, do better.” “There is no single burner setting that will maintain an even temp over time. The primary cause is food. When food is added the temp drops considerably as the heat in the griddle or pan surface transfers to the food. Similarly, as the food cooks the amount of heat that it pulls from the griddle or pan surface changes. The heat produced by the underlying burner also changes, I believe based on gas pressure to the range but there may be other bits). “ So to me you have to ask the question, what is the variation and how is this significant in actual cooking. The burner provides a certain number of BTUs. The pan and food are other variables that affect how things cook. At least at my house, I don’t get any variation with the heat from the burner that is noticeable in cooking. I have read of some areas that lose gas pressure noticeably when everyone is using gas at the same time. My cousin has this issue but even a thermostat doesn’t help If they lose pressure. The oven temp goes down. There are varying ways to deal with that drop in temperature with dropping the food. With something like hamburgers, I actually preheat the griddle or pan a little bit hotter and then add the food and may turn it down and it generally comes to an equilibrium. I can quickly change it if need be, especially with aluminum but the temperature settles out. I leave stockpots simmering unattended overnight and it doesn’t change. I can hold starchy pastas in foil trays with no scorching. You might not be getting as even of a surface temperature as you think. After you add your food and the surface temperature drops, it can take a long time for the heat to fill in and eventually drop all the way back by the thermostat to trigger it. It also depends on the food, how much and the metal and thickness of the griddle. With only 15K for two burners, you may never get the heat you want. But again when is that significant in cooking? “You can turn a griddle or flat-top on very low and it makes a great place for keeping sauces the proper and constant temp. I and friends have tried this with removable but found it doesn't work. It should in theory based on what I wrote above about heat transfer but in reality it doesn't. Thermostatic does work though.” When you say it didn’t work, what do you mean? What type of overlay? What type of burners? I have kept some of my sauces and gravies in a thermos made for that purpose, in a closed container in the oven or even just on the burner. Lots of ways to do things. It depends on what else I have going so really need the flexibility of my six burners. “Crepes and Swedish pancakes do best when cooked over a very consistent temp. If they cook too slow they get dry and if too fast they frequently burn (e.g., the time from properly done to burned is just a couple of seconds). I know that if I set it to about 425°f about 30 minutes prior to making them that I can make them consistently one after another until I've made as many as needed. I cannot make them nearly as well with a pan or griddle over burners and the thermostatic is much easier since there is no need to constantly adjust the burners. “ I do my crepes in a pan, but I don’t have the problem of constantly having to change the burners. As I said above being able to turn your griddle on to a number to consistently get the same output is a benefit for some cooks. I understand that you have very specific requirements for the way you cook but there are many cooks that have posted here, me included that just do not have the issues with temperature variation on an overlay that you say will happen. We are not constantly changing the setting. I guess if one were doing that, you would end up chasing your tail. What do you do when using a big skillet over a burner? How do you control heat? There are benefits to both but for some the benefits of an overlay are greater than a fixed even thermostatically controlled griddle. Like you said, you could easily buy an electric griddle if you needed that particular type of heat occasionally. You need it all of the time so it is your main consideration in buying your range, for others there are other priorities.