I purchased a GE FL washer and dryer in Jan of this year. I love it. No problems, clothes come out very clean. I can not speak for a GE top loader as I have never owned one. Good luck.

Has Maytag gone down in quality since being purchased by Whirlpool? I think the purchase took place in 2006. Maytag has been on a steep slippery slope since well before that, probably late '90s. From what I have heard, there is hope that the purchase may improve the brand. Still, I can't say I would by a Maytag. If you want to shun any company related to them, don't forget Kenmore - some of their appliances are made by Whirlpool too. Also Admiral, Jennair, Magic Chef, Amana, Kitchenaid, Roper, and Estate. I think that is all. Personally, I just replaced a 10 year old Kenmore with a new Whirlpool that I am very happy with.

I agree with jcrowley, Whirlpool was able to buy Maytag because Maytag management ran the Maytag brand into the ground. Now that Whirlpool owns the brand they are shutting down all the Maytag production lines, and rebadging their own products with the Maytag brand name, and since Maytag is a premium brand, Whirlpool will reserve their most highly featured premium products for the brand. It actually bodes well for the future quality and performance of Maytag products.

I say take your daughter to a appliance store and make a bee line for the scratch and dent department. There you can get a good brand FL and generally a matching dryer for a really reasonable price. My wife and I did it recently.
We got a Maytag (It was a top of the line MAH9700AWW) last years model for $500.00 for the washer and $300.00 for the matching dryer, disregard the price that is on top of the machine and just offer what a good top loader is and I betcha you get the machine. After a $150.00 in rebates from Maytag and the local utility we came out sitting good enough for getting the 5 year warranty for the washer and dryer. Who cares if you got a dent on washer or dryer, no one see the pair except family.
I do not worry what brand a FL is, after all my pair was made in So. Korea by Samsung and it is a washing fool on getting cloths clean and I do all the laundry in my home.

msaudie,

I find it interesting how CR suddenly dismisses top loaders with one fell swoop and elevates front loaders as the only way to get your clothes satisfactorily clean in an economically and environmentally acceptable way. All I say to that is 'what a load of unadulterated, manipulative horse manure.'

My advice, read around here. There are lots of people very much satisfied with their regular or HE GE, Whirlpool, Kenmore, Fisher & Paykel and other top loaders.

All products made by manufacturers in the US are quality controlled to a failure rate of less than one percent. This doesn't preclude the possibility that you may be in receipt of a dud, but places the odds of getting a product, that works properly, in your favor.

If your daughter wants a regular top loader then that is what she should get. Go into an appliance store and look at the products. Open the lid, have a look inside, kick it, smell it, check out the available warranties. Maybe your local appliance store has a few demo models so you can see it work.

You are always better off buying a moderately priced US made product over some cheap import from Asia or some other developing country.

A. Because you are actively supporting US jobs.

A1. Because imported stuff is here today and gone tomorrow.

A2. So whaddaya do when you can't get parts for a foreign model that has been superceded?

A3. At least with homegrown stuff you'll always be able to get that part.

B. In the US, production standards for locally made products are much more environmentally stringent than they are in developing countries.

B2. Hence, you are actually doing something real about combating climate change and protecting the environment.

B3. Most importantly your daughter is getting what she wants.

B4. There is no point buying something CR recommended if it doesn't fit your daughter's criteria and wishes. Remember, she is the one who has to use the washer not the CR people.

Just my 5 cents worth.

cheers

turbo

N.B. I don't agree with government agencies imposing standards that mandate consumer choice out of existence. Not only is this unconstitutional, it is downright un-American. Uncontrolled gun ownership is much more costly to the nation than top loaders could every be.

If I was going to get a traditional TLer, I would probably have gotten another Kenmore. Instead I got a fler that I really, really wanted. After a couple weeks, I really really wanted to crush it with a hammer. The vibrations made me crazy. So I returned it and got a TL Cabrio HE. Love it, should have got the TLer in the first place. If your daughter will be happy with a TLer, she should get one. If she really wants to try a FLer but is afraid to because of things she has read, tell her to make sure the place she makes her purchase will allow her to exchange if she is unhappy with her purchase, not only if it is defective. I got mine at Lowes, they bent over backwards to make me happy. And in the end they made $500.00 less. Of course, most good stores realize a happy customer is worth their weight in gold since they will make more purchases and recommend the store to others.

Good luck.

Oh yes, if she decides to get a HE machine, front or top loader, she might want to spring for an extended warranty. That way if she does have any problems, she knows she is covered. In our area, Best Buy and Lowes both have good service, Lowes warranty is cheaper. Sears service? I don't know, in over 20 years of owning Kenmore washers and dryer, I never called Sears for service. I did not go to Sears for this washer because I wanted an HE machine, and the cost of Warranties there is outrageous. When I bought my dishwasher, I paid $800 and they wanted $350 for a four year contract. I don't think so. If you have not already done so, you can easily compare prices on machines and warranties on line. Don't forget to check the cost of delivery, install, and if they will haul away the old machine. And if you buy from Sears, check to make sure they install the hoses correctly. I, and several people I know, have had problems with them mixing up the hot and cold. And this would include multiple cities and States! It doesn't hurt to check, and could hurt your cloths not to.

Turbodrum,

I strongly disagree with your opinion that regulation for water and energy efficiency are unconstitutional. Clean water is a resource that doesn't exist in abundance. That is especially true if you live in areas where there are water shortages during the summer months. Here in NC there are regulations that you can just water your yard every other day and they can still limit even that when the water level gets too low. So, is that unconstitutional?
Is it your personal freedom to still water your yard every day cause you want your grass to be nice and green? I don't think so. I agree that uncontrolled gun ownership is a problem in this country, but that has nothing to do with regulations protecting important resources.

In regards to CR, all they are saying is that TLs are not performing as well as FLs and that they are performing even worse when they have to wash with less water than what they used to do. The government regulations for water efficiency haven't been made up by the CR people. They are just testing the washers that are out there right now and those washers have to meet the regulations.

Msaudie,
I think your daughter shouldn't dismiss FLs without even looking at them. If she really wants to get a TL, she should still take a look at the energy labels. We have the cheap Hotpoint TL (made by GE) and it is one of the worst performing washers regarding energy efficiency AND cleaning performance. At the time we bought it my hubby didn't even want to buy a w/d set but go to the laundromat instead. I have to admit that I'd rather have a crappy TL than having to hang out at a nasty laundromat...
We are going to get a nice FL soon.

Looser,
Where did you se that HE top loaders perform so bad on the CR site? The two top rated TLers are the Cabrio and Oasis, both HE. They do use more water than front loaders, but their washing performance rating was the same as the two top rated FLers! Sounds like they wash fine.

Just my 2 cents worth, FL's are not all they are reported to be. I think the most common complaints on this forum about them are the wrinkling and mold problems. After a couple of weeks using my girlfriends HE3 FL I canceled the one I had on order and went with a TL. I think that they are way overpriced for what you actually get.
That said, I've had the GE Harmony set for about 3 years now and I love it. Mikeske was right when he said to hit the scratch and dent dept. but I would definitely look for a TL without the agitator. Just stay away from the Calypso. I don't think anyone will dispute that!

Sorry if I wasn't clear on that. I am not saying that ALL TLs are performing poorly. I have seen the CR results and there are some good HE TLs that people can choose if they want a TL. I was just referring to turbodrum who was complaining that CR dismisses all TLs. Like I said on another thread, I think the HE TLs are pretty good machines, but they also cost about as much as good FLs.
I personally prefer FLs and I have used them before. That is just my opinion and I am fine with other people preferring TLs. Turbodrum just made it sound as if it was okay for people to waste as much water as they want with a traditional TL. The high fill TLs are using a bunch of water and still don't get clothes very clean nor do they get the detergent residue out with just one rinse.

Looser,

Didn't anyone tell you that not having a sense of humor is un-constitutional and downright un-American?

Turbodrum,

I do have a sense of humor, but it seems that it differs a lot from American and Australian humor...;-)
I find British humor hillarious.

I am not un-constitutional since I do have a green card, but you are right about me being un-American (I am German).

Looser,

I strongly disagree with you about the high fill TLs not getting clothes very clean. Getting clothes clean has variables other than the type of washing machine used, such as the surfactant, water hardness, water temperature, etc.

Turbo,

I havenÂt seen the June 2007 CR article thatÂs mentioned yet but when I look at CRÂs ratings online, they rank most front loaders better than top loaders with regard to cleaning - that's not new but it's still hard for me to believe.

It's hard for me to believe because I wash some very dirty laundry in my motherÂs Maytag LAV top loader  I generally soak very dirty loads for 15 to 30 minutes or over night or while IÂm at work (how long I soak has more to do with my schedule and how the timing would work best for me) - anyway everything comes out clean  I donÂt see anything wrong with the sheets, clothes etc and itÂs hard for me to imagine that a front loader could do any better.

Yet CR rates many top load machines as average in terms of cleaning ability and many front load machines as very good or even excellent?

WhatÂs your take on this?

By the way everyone, I know that a front load machine would use less water but if you read instructions for using them you see that how you do laundry isnÂt really different from how you are supposed to do laundry in a top load machine  for example donÂt over load the machine, (Miele recommends no more than ¾ full)  MieleÂs new machines actually admit that chlorine bleach is advisable and useable - they still recommend pre-treating and even pre-soaking very dirty items - I donÂt think that it would be very easy to do soaking in a front loader  is it?

You can pre-soak in FLers, the one I had had a pre-soak cycle. It is just different from pre-soaking in a TLer. The pre-soak in the Fler tumbled the cloths intermittently in the water and detergent. I used it only once to see how it worked, we don't generally get anything dirty enough to soak.

CR has always rated water consumption & energy usage very highly when they rate washers, so much so that in some cases the weightings they use actually overshadow a lot of the other attributes that they use to judge with.

Examples of this are the high ratings that they originally gave the Calypso, and the Neptune TL. Both of which are no longer on the market. The Calypso turned out to a nightmare for consumers, the complete opposite of what CR originally claimed, and now that a second generation of HE top loaders are on the market, CR isn't quite so happy with them because they don't save quite as much energy or water as the Calypso and the Neptune TL did, even though they still save considerably more than traditional top loaders do.

It's shame, because CR's rating could be a lot more meaningful for consumers if their evaluations were just a little more balanced.

Whirlpool/Kenmore 3.2 cubic foot topload washers/matching 7.0 cubic foot electric/gas dryers
ps: Maytag started going downhill in 1997.

Pecanfudge,
it is true that there are many factors that affect the cleaning results of a washer. However, on most traditional TLs you have very little influence on things like water temperature and duration of the wash. The "hot" wash is not very hot depending on the settings of your water heater. We have a little kid, so we won't set the water heater on scalding hot. Her well-being is more important to me than the poor cleaning results of our TL.
Have you ever tried getting a musty smell out of dish rags or towels that have been sitting in a gym bag for a while?
I have tried pre-treating them with Detergent, Spray & Wash, Febreze, Oxi-Clean, but our washer just doesn't get that smell out. I am not going to use Clorox cause I can't stand the smell of it and it is also very unhealthy. The use of chlorine is not common in many other countries...not even for treating tab water.
We ended up throwing away some dish rags and towels just because of their bad smell. In a FL you can use a sanitary cycle to get rid of the fungi and bacteria that cause that smell.

Regarding the timindy's post, it is right that the way of doing laundry isn't much different in FLs. The results, however, are a lot different. TLs that use just one large rinsing cycle can't get the detergent residue out of the clothes. They dilute it a lot, but there will always be leftovers. The internal heaters and the ability to do profile washes are big advantages of most FLs.

Hi Tim,

Nice to see that you still come here. I rarely do now, far too busy, but my family and I are all well. How are things with you?

I agree with you. I get my clothes spotlessly clean and always have using a regular top loader. I have never had an issue with cleaning performance or persistent fabric damage/wear.

In reality, 90% of everyday dirt and most stains dissolve in water and wash out straight away. They don't require long soaks, washtimes and temperatures accurate to the tenth of a degree, they only require a decent detergent.
Hard to clean substances and stains that have been allowed to set need extra attention.

Top loaders are very effective at getting normal dirt and soiling out very quickly, but the short wash times (from 10 to 20 minutes max.) are not able to lift out very deep and set in stains. For clothes that are not very dirty, a ten minute TL wash works as well as a 30 minute wash in a front loader. If you washed extremely dirty clothes for only 10 or 20 minutes in a front loader, there would be even less cleaning going on.

They are different wash systems because of the mechanical action that is applied and a lot of people don't seem to understand that. Regular top loaders don't need to heat their own water, because of the thermal volume and dirt disperses more quickly as clothes are suspended in the detergent solution during agitation.

The only advantage a front loader has over a top loader, getting rid of difficult and set in stains, is cycle length. A two hour wash will shift almost anything, especially if the temperature is close to boiling. Though, most of the fabrics that I have can't be washed that hot. This is where soaking and/or pre-treating comes in. I rarely pre-treat stains, only if I am not going to wash them out immediately do I apply something. I find that soaking with oxygen bleach and a good detergent is much more effective. I have found stain treatments useful at laundromats, which often only use cold water in their machines.

As I have stated time and again, I don't care about CR. They are not end-users and they do not reflect the diverse laundry practices/experiences of consumers. They do stuff on a different level, for a different purpose and now they generally only promote products that hold no appeal for me. I don't believe that the criteria they use to determine cleaning performance has changed all that much. I am of the opinion that their reviews are written with a good dose of subjective input. I know what I want from a washing machine, CR don't.

I have been coming to this forum over a number of years now and noticed a significant change of attitude. As more people are buying into the front loader experience we are getting much more accurate and honest reviews in terms of how they really fit or disappoint consumers' expectations.

Hi Tim,

Nice to see that you still come here. I rarely do now, far too busy, but my family and I are all well. How are things with you?

I agree with you. I get my clothes spotlessly clean and always have using a regular top loader. I have never had an issue with cleaning performance or persistent fabric damage/wear.

In reality, 90% of everyday dirt and most stains dissolve in water and wash out straight away. They don't require long soaks, washtimes and temperatures accurate to the tenth of a degree, they only require a decent detergent.
Hard to clean substances and stains that have been allowed to set need extra attention.

Top loaders are very effective at getting normal dirt and soiling out very quickly, but the short wash times (from 10 to 20 minutes max.) are not able to lift out very deep and set in stains. For clothes that are not very dirty, a ten minute TL wash works as well as a 30 minute wash in a front loader. If you washed extremely dirty clothes for only 10 or 20 minutes in a front loader, there would be even less cleaning going on.

They are different wash systems because of the mechanical action that is applied and a lot of people don't seem to understand that. Regular top loaders don't need to heat their own water, because of the thermal volume and dirt disperses more quickly as clothes are suspended in the detergent solution during agitation.

The only advantage a front loader has over a top loader, getting rid of difficult and set in stains, is cycle length. A two hour wash will shift almost anything, especially if the temperature is close to boiling. Though, most of the fabrics that I have can't be washed that hot. This is where soaking and/or pre-treating comes in. I rarely pre-treat stains, only if I am not going to wash them out immediately do I apply something. I find that soaking with oxygen bleach and a good detergent is much more effective. I have found stain treatments useful at laundromats, which often only use cold water in their machines.

As I have stated time and again, I don't care about CR. They are not end-users and they do not reflect the diverse laundry practices/experiences of consumers. They do stuff on a different level, for a different purpose and now they generally only promote products that hold no appeal for me. I don't believe that the criteria they use to determine cleaning performance has changed all that much. Hence, I am of the opinion that their reviews are written with a good dose of subjective input. I know what I want from a washing machine, CR don't.

I have been coming to this forum over a number of years now and noticed a significant change of attitude. As more people are buying into the front loader experience we are getting much more accurate and honest reviews in terms of how they really fit or disappoint consumers' expectations.

Take care

turbo

Golly gosh - a double post! Hm, maybe one of the moderators could be kind enough to delete one of them?

Thank you

Looser,

The problem with modern society is that we are already over-regulated. I detest this nanny-state mentality that politicians and public servants are forcing on us under the pretext of the 'public, environmental, health or economic good' or some other spurious crap. Most of the time they don't know what they are talking about anyway. I do not need or want politicians, public servants, environmentalists or misguided CR people in my laundry.

Instead of mandating rediculous energy and water consumption standards that will render washers and dishwashers next to crap, they should do their jobs. They want us to be accountable for every fart that we let go, yet they couldn't hold a raffle in a chook pen. Who regulates the regulators?

Take it easy

Turbo

Turbodrum,
I understand your concerns about over-regulating everything. Regarding your question "Who regulates the regulators?" the answer should be "everybody who votes for them". After all, I think all of us live in countries that are supposedly democracies. That means that the citizens are in charge. I know that it doesn't really work like that though.

I don't know why you get so upset about CR if you don't believe in their results anyway. The regulations didn't make TL illegal yet, so nobody keeps you from buying and liking them. Even without any of the new regulations I'd always prefer a FL. And many people on this forum who have switched from TLs to FLs state that they never want to go back to TLs. I don't think you can dismiss all of their experiences as "supersticion". There are some people who prefer TLs and they are welcome to keep using them. There is no need to fight about who is right or wrong.

Hi Turbo,

Like you I don't visit the forum too often these days and I rarely post messages (been there done that) and yes I am very busy too these days with my business life and taking care of my mother every other week etc - it gets pretty hectic sometimes on those weeks but it's worth it.

I sometimes check for fun though just to see what's going on here and noticed a few posts by you - so it's good to check in with you.

For anyone who is interested, I posted my wash performance comments because unlike some who say that they don't have to wash clothes that are very dirty - I do wash clothes that are very very dirty - so I have some experience in this regard.

Of course I'm not saying that a front loader couldn't wash them clean but am just saying that a standard agitator machine also does just fine.

For those of us who have been around here a while, we've been through this sort of thing time and time again (no need to go at it again) but the comments about CR's latest ratings made me curious.

I did get the June issue and they pretty much say that TL machines are struggling to get good results while meeting the 2007 energy standards.

That's a curiousity since I'll bet that you can override many or all of those energy restrictions if you want to - for example I know that you can override them using a Fisher Paykel machine.

Turbo, your comments about more people giving realistic assessments about real life FL performance is something that I'll have to check out - as I said I haven't combed through here for a while. I'll check it out when I have a bit of time.

Take care Turbo and good luck to you and your family.

turbodrum,

I agree with you completely about overzealous, uninformed government over regulating our lives. Case in point, low flush toilets. Now instead of flushing once you have to flush 3 times. Leave our washing machines alone!!!

ebear1271,
I am all for conserving water, but on the toilets I have to agree with you. Actually, you are lucky if you just have to flush it three times instead of one. How about clogging it up and repeatedly flushing for 30 minutes or so to get it declogged? There can't be any water savings if those stupid toilets can't handle sh$%* (literally!).
You can still get toilets with "high efficiency" flushes though. I guess the toilets with two options for liquid or solid waste are pretty good...

On the washers I have to disagree with you. It is not acceptable to use large amounts of water if you can get the same or better cleaning results using much (up to 75%) less water. The regulations still allow TLs to use significantly more water than most FLs do. The stores are still full of TLs, so where is the need to get upset about the regulations?

"I agree with you completely about overzealous, uninformed government over regulating our lives. Case in point, low flush toilets. Now instead of flushing once you have to flush 3 times. Leave our washing machines alone!!!"

I agree. I bought a useless top-of-the-line Kohler one piece toilet. The piece of junk I previously had did the job in one large flush. Now it takes 3 flushes plus a hand plunger every 10 flushes.
-----------------------------

I just came flying to this site as my clunker of a washing machine (which came with the house I just purchased) gave up the ghost 5 minutes ago.

The machine is all rotted out and the spin motor or belt just snapped. It never agitated right anyway which was another problem.

I had to pull out a wet blanket and I am glad it was a TL
as my back cannot stand bending down for too long. I guess the previous posts were from folks who never had a backache. A FL would kill me ...even with a stand.

I have a HomeDepot 10% first time purchase coupon. I am going to see if I can find a quality Made in America washer and dryer. I have a feeling I am going to be disappointed. Maybe a mid to high end GE model will last? Any comments on any HD models will be helpful.

There are variables in play here. During the early 1990's I washed my clothes in a front loader without a heater. Then there were no HE detergents so I used top loader detergent. Clothes were always clean and rinsed well the wash cycle was 20 minutes. During this period CR raved about TL and slammed FL

In the mid 1990's I switched to a "top of the line" top loader using the same detergent and water temp. The wash was 18 minutes and the clothes were never clean and never rinsed...same water, same temp, same type of clothes--mostly all cotton. I started using LCB even though I don't like it and still ground in dirt was not removed. I started waiting until the wash had 4 minutes left and then would reset the timer so that It would have 12 minutes left. I did this to get more wash time. Still clothes were dirty. I used the extra rinse cycle and still the detergent could not be removed from the items. During this period CR raved about TL and slammed FL. I asked CR to rate rinsing ability but they don't seem to care about that at all.

In 2002 I moved back to a FL. Yes it has a heater and it can heat to nearly 200F but I don't use temps that high.
I get clean clothes from dirty stained clothes with a 20 minute wash and they are rinsed very well, and if the load is small the machine reduces the wash down to 10 minutes and the rinses are reduced also--still clean rinsed clothes. IN 2002 CR acknowledged FL's but continued to rave about TL.

Now CR raves about FL. ---- They are blowing with the wind.

I don't care to own another TL but I don't care if anyone else wants one either.

Newjerseybt,
it is not true that all the people who like FLs never have any back pain. I do have problems with my lower back quite often and I have to be careful about lifting and bending the right way to keep my back from completely locking up.
For the back, it is probably better to kneel down in front of the w/d to unload and load them instead of just bending down. It comes in handy that the openings of the w/d pair are on the same level if you get a matching pair.
To unload a TL I also have to bend down a little bit and then I have to bend to throw it in a dryer. I prefer having both machines load the same way. You could go with the F&P top load dryer I guess. I just know that I don't want to own another TL. I know the Hotpoint washer is not one of the best TLs, but I also wasn't too impressed with the Speed Queen washers at the laundromat. Even though at the laundromat it makes sense to have short wash cycles, wouldn't have liked to spend any more time there. But then I had to split up a load and use two dryers to get a somewhat acceptable drying time...

Hi Looser!

Thanks for the advice regarding "the back". I should have stated that bad knees are another problem in my household which is why I bought a one level ranch.

I just ran down to HD again to look at the new "high end" Maytag TL. They are supposed to have all of the advantages of a FL and since they have no center agitator they can hold more clothes. The tub spins at high speed and use the centrifugal force of water to do the cleaning.

A HD employee who is a neighbor of mine told me to stay clear of this design. He said a friend of his bought a similar model by another manufacturer and wanted his money refunded. He said the results of the wash were poor and the clothes end up in a knot.

jerrod6,

A very interesting post.

I agree about CR blowing with the wind; in my opinion it hurts their credibility.

Your FL / TL experience is an interesting one though.

OMG! newjerseybt, you ACTUALLY take the opinion of a Home Depot worker on something like whether a washer design was good or not??? These dopes that can barely help you find a nut to match a loose screw you have, is going to give you accurate advice on a Washing Machine??? (80% are part timers so that HD doesn't have to pay benefits) Where did they get this expert training in engineering? In the HD lunch room? GMAB.

Next time you decide to buy a new car, suggest then that you head over to Ace Hardware for their expert advice; after all they do sell headlight lamps so they must be trained automotive specialists.