Electric Heat Vs Gas Heat

13 years ago

Hi everyone,

My wife and I bought our house last Sept. which was built in 1964. We live in Missouri. It is 1250 sq ft not including basement. Basement is another 750 or so. It's a split level with kitchen & living room on slab and bedrooms above the partly finished basement.

Currently, the heat is radiant ceiling heat. Every room has a thermostat so you can isolate rooms and not heat if you don't want. Bathrooms have wall heat units. The AC unit is a 5 ton (I think, at least 4 I know.) Which I'm told is way overkill.

We are getting bids on a new HVAC system and are trying to decide on gas vs electric. I have bids for both with heat pumps as options. For example one bid had $1900 for 2 ton 15Kw electric furnace and $2500 for 60,000btu 95% gas. 13 seer heat pump added $1500 to the furnace price and 15 seer added $2100 but carried a $500 rebate. AC units are $1250 for 13 seer and $2200 for 15 seer.

Gas prices are .90/ccf and electric rates are 10.6 cents/kwh. We have no gas line to our house. A new line would cost $850 to run from center street to outside our house.

We had R-13 in our attic. I added more but probably only boosted to R-25. Adding more is out until a new roof is needed as the roof pitch is about 3/12. Our highest bill during the winter was $400. That was using 2 bedrooms at night and turning down kit and living room to 50. By day, it was 1 bedroom (other was turned down to 60) and kitchen and living room. We would occasionally (less than 10% of the time) run the basement, bathroom wall heaters and other rooms.

Ductwork is in the attic for both parts of house and is 3/4" thick insulated fiber duct. I tried to blow a lot of insulation over it but probably didn't do much.

My questions are:

-I know loads of heat were lost through the ceiling with radiant heat, but would a new furnace with heat pump cost more monthly to do the entire house in winter?

-Which seems to be more cost-effective scenario?

Electric or Gas?

-Do heat pumps really work that well? And even with my poorly insulated house, are heat pumps still better to have than a traditional furnace and AC?

-What tonnage should I have or does 2 sound right? Bids say anywhere from 2 up to 3.5 ton. One guy said a ton to 600 sq ft living excluding basement. Sound right?

Money is an object and I've been leaning toward the Elec with 15 seer heat pump as it will run around $3500 after rebate. Gas is the way I would like to go but the gas line price is an additional cost taking us away from a $4000 ballpark. But maybe it is justified to have it installed.

Hope I didn't bog anyone down with details. I wanted to paint the clearest picture of our scenario. Let me know what you think.

Thanks

Joel

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Comments (4)

countryboymo
13 years ago
Whatever you choose you should go heat pump. The total cost to get the gas in the house and connected needs to be known and then calculate the difference in total install cost. How long you plan to live here plays in also.

You want a good heat pump... demand defrost..and a txv at the indoor coil for humidity control for sure.

Quality t-stat that has controls to lock out the heat pump and or furnace depending on outside temperature.

Electric or gas depending on how long you plan to stay. I would go gas so you can leverage onto whichever is cheaper per btu.
david_cary
13 years ago
Gas is usually 1/2 what electric strips are.

There are too many variables to say how much less it will cost. $850 is not a lot compared to what some people have to pay. Another $500 more for the furnace. Now you have something that could save you $500 a year - so 3 year payback. On the other hand, it might only save you $200 a year and your payback is 7 years - still worth it if you are staying and maybe even in resale value.

Switch to NG on your hot water probably saves $100 a year on average - might cost $600 or so. Or switch to tankless for $1200 and save $200. Tankless might be easier to install so the difference might be less.

NG is a cheap way to heat things. Not as cheap as a heat pump when it is 35 degrees out but still pretty cheap.

Look at your total annual bill because a terrible $400 might be $1000 annual or closer to $2000 annual. Then think about chopping that in 1/2 or more (with dual fuel).
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You should definitely be pricing with just heat pump. I live in NC which probably is a bit colder in the winter. We get down to the teens but only 15 nights a year maybe. Our winter average low is about 30. Under 10 degrees is definitely a news story. I have 5000 sq ft. I'm looking at my NG bill of $30. I have dual fuel and seer 16 heat pumps. Last winter was very cold and I spent about $700 with $200 being gas. This winter is going to be $120 in gas. My electric rates are similar to yours without the first 1000 discount. What is my point? Your gas usage will likely be $100 a year. Even if that were replaced with all heating strips, you'd be saving $200 a year or so. Since it would probable be 80% heat pump still, the dual fuel is only saving you $40 a year. So a $2500 furnace to save $40 a year seems a little crazy (on dollars alone). Turns out for me, it is probably worth it but only marginally so. I have a 90% (which you should be able to do as mine is basement with horizontal PVC exhaust). It probably saves $60-$70 on an average year. Probably cost $2000 (new house - I can't remember). What is that a 30 year payback (or never if you count interest or NG rates increase)? You do get some flexibility and you can setback at will with dual fuel. That is worth something.
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"alphonse - how big of a house? Maybe I can go with a good heat pump knowing that I should/will insulate later with some type of blow-in when redoing the siding? I haven't looked at a LP tank, but aren't these usually situated outside? If so, I bet the HOA would love that =]" 2500 sq.ft. I'd venture that insulating/ quality glazing always has paybacks and should be a priority whatever system you go with. Being in a rural area far from any NG distribution, many people here opt for propane with a typical tank size of 500-1K gals. The tanks are often buried, but not all jurisdictions allow that. Pricing is better at such volume. Fuel oil prices fluctuate so widely that cost comparison isn't cut& dried. LP serves as fuel for DHW, cooking, and for the Amish, refrigeration and lighting. "I'm also going to look in geothermal and maybe get someone out here for a quote. I have the yard space for it and a well in the front yard (for watering the lawn). Maybe the combination of two would meet my heating needs." As noted upthread, up front costs for geo are pretty high but given your situation absolutely worth looking into. A savvy contractor would prevent glitches that can occur with water pump/demand issues...factor in that such systems can provide all DHW, "free".
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neohioheatpump
13 years ago
definetly get a heatpump. If you want to be fancy, get gas with the heatpump and then you have dual fuel. Gas is pretty cheap right now but it could go up again. Gas is cheap for heating hot water.

Keep in mind with gas you'll pay the monthly service fee even if you use little or none. Some people would rather spend that money on electric. Their are fancy heatpump hot water tanks around now that save money.

You have cheap electric. I think missouri is well served with heatpumps.
zippyhvac
13 years ago
I'll post a calculator I found below, but based on the figures you posted, it would cost $31 per million btus for electric resistance heating ( your electric furnace option), $15.50 for the same amount of heat using a heat pump, or $10.50 for natural gas.

The wrinkle with using natural gas is that to fully take advantage of the available savings, you would want a gas water heater, clothes dryer, and probably a gas stove - The water heater would require a chimney, and buying a houseful of appliances doesn't sound like an option for you - keep in mind, all of those appliances would require gas pipe inside the house as well, which wouldn't be included in your $850 cost to get the gas to the house. Plus, you would likely incur permit and inspection fees for a changeover.

Based on what you've posted, In your situation, I'd probably get a top-shelf heat pump for heating and cooling the house, and possibly a heat-pump water heater as well.

I've posted a link below so you can run your own numbers

Here is a link that might be useful: energy cost comparator - requires microsoft excel

Electric Heat Vs Gas Heat

Comments (4)

countryboymo

david_cary

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