Recently purchased the wfw9400su and am pleased with it so far. My laundry room is on the second floor and no vibrations issues with this machine. Whirlpool could have done a better job with the dispenser though. I am definately curious about what consumer reports had to say about the wfw9400.

They said some interesting things -

1) Top loaders - most are no good anymore due to new energy requirements. A few models like the WP Cabrio and Kenmore Oasis did okay but not great.

2) In the front loaders they rated #1 LG Steamwasher #2 WP GHW9400 #3 Kenmore Elite He5T, #4 the Maytag Epic 9700, #5 the Bosch Nexxt 500, #5 the WP WFW9400. There were 20 more rated lower than this in front loaders.

Back to the GHW vs WFW they gave the WFW worse ratings on "gentleness" and a very long cycle time of 105 mins vs the quick 65 for the GHW. So the GHW is quicker and easier on the clothes I guess.

That is interesting....

Owned an LG and not so gentle as my new Duet. As far as Kenmore Elite and Duet they are virtually same machine. Added features on Kenmore brought the rating up on that one, I'm sure. The Maytag is rebranded Kitchenaid and in last test the Kitchenaid was rated gentlest above all the others so I guess that carried over to the Epic rating. Bosch was second on last testing. The real discrepancy with the new Duet is that the cabinet top is painted steel instead of porcelain and the features are not equal to the kenmore he5...I think....

When I did my research it seemed like the Duet, Elite and Epic were very similar with only a few minor differences. We bought the Epic and love it!

Was doing some research also and came to same conclusions. However, Epic didn't have the clean washer cycle or bulky wash setting. If it had those features, I would have gone with the Epic. Don't understand the gentleness being worse on the duet wfw9400. Doesn't make sense since Whirlpool confirmed to me that the stability was improved from the previous model, along with 6th sense and temp control as well as direct inject. Spin speeds didn't change from previous model. So very interested in consumer reports results.

Hi there,
Just checked out the consumer reports ratings and seems that consumer reports knows how to play some tricks. Both the Kenmore he5t and Whirlpool Duet wfw9400 received worse rating for gentleness, as mentioned earlier, however this rating was given based on using the HEAVY duty cycle. The other models normal/casual cycle was used. If I am mistaken, please chime in.

Yeah, I saw those ratings and couldn't understand how in one generation the Duet's gentleness could vary that dramatically.

Where did you find the information that those test results are from June? I have been checking the CR website for several weeks now and it hasn't changed since. They don't really have a date on it other than on the overview page where it says January 2007.

The order of ratings that is stated above is just partially true.
The LG Steam was rated #1 (83 points) and the 4 following machines all got the exact same overall rating (79 points). The Bosch is the best value of those four. The Bosch is also mentioned as a Quick Pick.
It is a little strange how CR comes up with some of the ratings. For example, it rates the capacity of the Bosch a little lower than the other machines. On the Energy Star website they are all the exact same capacity (3.3 cuft). I know that there are different standards for the capacity, the ones that are advertised as 3.8 or 4.0 are all listed at 3.3 on the energy star website.
The same is probably true for the gentleness. The Kenmore HE5t and the Duet WFW 9400 are both just rated "fair" for gentleness. I don't think that they always use equal settings. I don't think that the gentleness is dramatically different within the WP family. It is not that simple to compare different brands if you don't have the same wash cycles to choose from. I think that CR gives you a pretty good overview regarding the performance of the washers, but I wouldn't base my decision strictly on their ratings. There are many washers with basically the same ratings, so all of the top ten should be pretty good washers. I don't think that CR can say much about the long term reliability of the washers. They can't do enough long term test to come up with statistic results.

I'm at the CR website now, and at the top of the washing machines page it says this:
A freqently-updated product
June 2007

The 105 minute cycle time for the WFW9400 makes no sense. I own the WFW9200 (the 9150 used to be on their recommended list, so I figured its replacement the WFW9200 would be similar) and the Normal cycle is roughly an hour.

I saw June being mentioned on the one page, but the ratings are still the same as the ones I found in mid April. I don't think that they have performed new tests recently.

It does look as if they used heavy duty cycles on both the Elite and the new Duet with cycle times of 105 minutes. I think that the long cycles are the reason for the lower ratings on gentleness. Like I said, I wouldn't get too upset about it. But I guess it would be worth mentioning things like this to the CR researchers. If you have to pay for their service, they should provide accurate information.
I believe that all the top rated FLs are very good machines. The cycles and features vary a little bit and people have to decide which one is the best for their needs.

I am in need of a new washer and dryer. Also doing my kitchen over so have been in appliance consideration mode for weeks. It is turning into a full time job!
I have read several reviews on the LG WM-1832C with complaints of mildew smelling clothes and poor service.

Merci,

JA

1. The GHW9400PW4 was the last model variant made. The PW3 and PW4 had the newer 'gap damper' shock absorbers while the older PW0 and PW1 did not. We had a PW0 on a pedestal that had terrible vibration problems. It was finally replaced with a PW4 which also vibrated some on the same pedestal. After we had it taken off its pedestal it works wonderfully. Partly the gap damper shock absorbers and partly the lack of the pedestal.
2. Whirlpool bought Maytag in a distress sale due to the problems and lawsuit that Maytag had over mold building up in its machines. Whirlpool is sensitive to such problems.
3. The GHW models were being perceived as 'old' designs so the WFW models came out. They have a)a 'new' front panel, b) an improved digital display, c)a new sanitizing wash cycle that you use without clothes but with Clorox and that uses more water than the regular cycles. The recommendation is to use this cycle once a month to get rid of any possible mold in the machine, d) reportedly six adjustable legs rather than four, and, I assume, e)the improved gap damper shock absorbers.

When some clothes were left in our PW4 washer for a day and one-half they smelled musty so we added a little dilute clorox to the drum and ran the washer without clothes. Then rewashed the musty clothes with a little Clorox. Everything, both clothes and washer, came out fine. We usually keep a hand towel by the washer and usually wipe the small amount of water from he inside of the door after a wash and leave the door open a little. We have never had a mold problem as long as we do this and never needed a saniizing cycle - until we left the wet clothes in for a long time. But the problem is easy to fix with the GHW washer even without the new sanitizing cycle.

Regarding the lower ratings of the new Duet, there is a discussion about the test methods on the CR forums that you may find interesting. Angelo, the guy that works for CR, stated that they used the longest wash cycle available to test the cleaning performance of the washers. The longer wash cycle means less gentleness and slightly better cleaning results, but the washers should be tested on various cycles. After all, one of the advantages of the fancy washers is the large amount of cycle choices, so you can wash different garments at the appropriate temperature, spin speed and so on.
I would not worry about the difference in the ratings at all. The new model is probably better than the older one.

I totally don't get the "gentleness" thing among CR's ratings of the FL's. All the machines do --ALL of them -- is slosh the clothes around a little bit, then reverse. I don't know how any machine could be more "gentle" than that unless there was no tumbling at all and the clothes just sat there in a puddle.

I can understand how various TL's with their varying methods of agitation may produce differences but I have no idea where the variation among ratings of the TL's is coming from.

CR does a highly quantitative analysis on washers and you can use their ratings to make very precise buying decisions. As noted many times on this board there is little reason to question their methods of testing, weighting factors and the resulting overall scores.

In this case the LG Steamwasher had a score of 84 and the Whirlpool came in at 79. This means the LG is ((84-79)/79*100) = 6.3291139% better than the Whirlpool. Of course the LG costs (($1500-$1200)/$1200)*100) = 25% more than the Whirlpool so maybe the Whirlpool is a pretty good cost vs. performance buy afterall.

:-)

gordonr,
just to keep the facts straight, the LG Tromm got 83 points not 84, but maybe you are taking the CR ratings a little too seriously...;-)

I agree that they give you a pretty good idea about the weaknesses and strengths of specific washers, but the end results are not necessarily significant for everyone. For example, CR downgraded the Miele touchtronic to a total score of 63 strictly because of the smaller capacity. The water and energy efficiency, the cleaning performance, the gentleness and noise were all good or very good. A lot of people don't need the extra capacity and then the Miele might be their best choice. Do you know what I mean? Then you have some people who don't think the water and energy efficiency are as important as short wash cycles. Just look within this forum, not everybody believes that the FLs are better washers.
Have you checked out the forum on CR? The moderator of the forum made some comments about the confidentiality of their test methods that upset quite a few people on that forum. I am not the only one who has a few doubts about CR's testing methods. Like I said, the overall tendency of the results are probably okay, but don't rely too heavily on each of the ratings. I agree with asolo's post, I don't understand how the HE5t and Duet WFW9400 ended up with a "fair" rating for gentleness. Angelo stated that it was due to the longer wash cycle, but even that wouldn't cause too much wear and tear of the clothes. Just 3 of the TLs got a fair rating and one a poor, all the others are supposedly gentler than the Duet and HE5t. Yeah, right...

looser,

As you probably noticed I'm fairly detail oriented. Thank you for the correction.

The fact that CR doesn't publish their test methods for review is very suspect. You would think an open and transparent process would be part of the CR ethic. I suppose they enjoy so much power in the market that if manufacturers knew exactly how they tested, they would design features to maximize their score. Similar to the problem with some Energy Star ratings where manufacturers make poor product decisions for the sake of getting the best rating.

soybeanstasher: We're about to get the WFW9200 and matching gas dryer (WGD9200SQ). Are you happy with the 9200? Gets clothes clean?

Thanks

In all seriousness CR really needs to be much more transparent around this voodoo they call ratings and rankings. If you look at a couple of comparisons in the June '07 issue it really makes you scratch your head. For example compare the top ranked LG (83 points) with the upper middle of the pack Samsung (77 points):

Wash Performance:--Both "Very Good"-----------------------(draw)
Energy Efficiency:----Both "Excellent"-------------------------(draw)
Water Efficiency:-----Both "Excellent"------------------------(draw)
Capacity:------------Both "Excellent"-------------------------(draw)
Gentleness:----------LG "Very Good" - Samsung "Excellent"--(advantage Samsung)
Noise:----------------Both "Very Good"---------------------(draw)
Auto Temp Control:--Both Have Feature---------------------(draw)
Cycle Time:----------LG: 70 min - Samsung 75 min----------(advantage LG)

In every category the Samsung equaled or bettered the LG except for a 5 minute longer cycle (which I view as essentially a draw). The Samsung is ranked 9 machines below the LG. This makes NO sense given the limited information presented on what factors they use to determine rankings.

A casual reader of this article who is a CR devotee would naturally tend to only see the top 3 or 4 machines in a list unless a "CR best buy" lower in the list is also highlighted. People tend to place too much importance on CR rankings and CR doesn't help the matter by presenting data in nice colorful neat quasi-quantitative tables without really telling you how they reached their conclusions.

Note - I don't own either machine, nor am I considering the purchase of either. I only point this out as an example of some quirks in CR's reporting.

kennethv:
So far so good. It's gotten out ring-around-the-collar stains that previous top load washers have not (granted this could also be the detergent, since when we switched to HE, we also switched to Tide from a cheaper brand).

I can't say much about the vibration issue since mine is in a basement sitting on concrete. No moldy or mildewy smells as of yet. No error codes either. I always use unscented detergents, and my clothes come out scentless (i.e., no moldy smell as some owners of front loaders report).

I think that covers the major front-load washer concerns.

The dryer is fine. Pretty much performs as any other dryer I've had. I felt silly replacing my old one, but I guess the manufacturers have a hold over many of us when it comes to making our appliances match.

Let me know if there's anything specific you need to know.

Here's the difference, Whirlpool decided to make the model #'s easier to understand. GHW = Gold series (topline) High effiency Washer, WFW = Whirlpool Frontloading Washer. That really is about all there is to it, there are some minor cosmetic differences, but the feature package is the same. The last letter of the model# is the color code, Q and W both stand for white. The letter just before that stands for the year the model was designed (not released). S=2005, P=2003. Also, they have different warranties. Any appliance manufactured after 11/06 by Whirlpool has only a 1yr ltd warr, whereas prior to that there are 1 yr full warr with additional part warranties.

Help! I bought a Maytag EPIC MGD9700SQ gas drier a month or two ago. It was taking upwards of 90 minutes to dry my clothes. I clean the lint screen with each load and I tried venting it out of the window in case the exhaust vent was blocked, but no improvement. Maytag's agent visited and said the thermostat kept turning off. The local store I bought it at ordered another drier, same model.

This one also takes well over an hour to dry a regular load of laundry, the same kind of load that my 18 year old Maytag drier used to dry in about 50 minutes.

For example, tonight the screen said 34 minutes (for a "NORMAL LOAD" - I don't want to use the other features that initiate a very high heat), but at the end of the 34 minutes, it still said 26 minutes. When I checked the clothes, two of the items were still too damp to fold.

a) Has anyone else experienced this kind of drying time needed by Maytag Epic?
b) Could the fact that I still have my old Maytag washing machine, which was top of the line 18 years ago but is NOT high tech and doesn't spin the clothes any special way, be affecting the performance of the drier so drastically? If the answer is yes, then shouldn't Maytag let buyers of their driers know that they have to upgrade their washing machines at the same time.

Another late night waiting to put the next load in the drier.... I dread the total on my electricity bill.

b) Could the fact that I still have my old Maytag washing machine, which was top of the line 18 years ago but is NOT high tech and doesn't spin the clothes any special way, be affecting the performance of the drier so drastically?

Yes, because the new FL spins at about 1000-1200 rpm while the old TL spins at about 500 rpm.

When you aimed the exhaust out your window, did you have it blowing through a window screen? If so, that's wrong. It's very difficult for air to blow *through* a screen. Try it again with the screen off the window or the exhaust duct aimed out a door, or simply laying on the floor, whatever, so the air stream has no restriction.

Just wondering also ... I've seen cases in which the dryer was shoved too far back against the wall, crushing the flexible vent hose or bending it sharply.

By the way, the thermostat is *supposed* to turn off (and then back on) to maintain whatever is the target temperature for the selected cycle. For your reference, below are the temperatures at which the heat shuts off. It cycles back on when the temp drops by 10°F to 15°F.

High = 155°F +/- 10°F
Medium = 145°F +/- 10°F
Low = 125°F +/- 10°F
Ex Low = 105°F +/- 5°F

Your washer's spin speed does have some effect on drying time, but the new dryer still should be able to dry a load in close to the same time as the old one. Maybe your old dryer ran hotter than the new one? Did you normally use the High temperature setting on it?

The starting cycle time is only an estimate. The electronic control recalculates and adjusts the remaining time based on how quickly it senses the clothes are drying, size of the load, what is the target dryness level, etc. If the two damp items were of substantially heavier fabric weight than the rest of the items in the load, it's normal for them to be damp at the end. Your dryer's electronic sensing split the difference between the lighter and heavier items. If your old dryer didn't have an electronic sensor, you may not be accustomed to how it works. Some newer dryers also tend to err toward the side of less-dry for energy saving purposes, so you may need to raise the target dryness setting by one level depending on the mix of fabrics that comprises your normal loads.

Thanks for the two knowledgable replies - I'm impressed.

I don't have a screen in my window and the vent hose is not crushed (the machine is much farther away from the back wall than my old machine, in fact.) I didn't use the HIGH setting on my old drier (I don't think there was one -- it was a 2-decades old Maytag).

So I agree that the new drying machine should be able to do the SAME SIZE load of laundry in the same time as my old drier did, even tho I haven't replaced the washer yet.

I've just ordered the matching washer in desperation, and will try them together.

Another question: When my local appliance store brought the drier I asked them to clean the vent "as far as they could go." They did so and reported that it didn't look linted-up to them at all. Now I'm going to attach the new drier to the same vent the old one used, which is a fairer and more difficult test than just putting the exhaust pipe out of the window. Is there a way I can check that the vent is really clear FURTHER than they could go(maybe a tool I can purchase) so that I don't have to keep wondering if the vent is blocked somewhere further up along its length?

THANKS to ALL.

Continuation of previous posts:

So I just bought the matching Maytag Epic washer in desperation -- in the hope that it would speed up the Maytag Epic DRIER times. I presume it spun this first load of clothes much more effectively. (It SHOULD as it took 10 minutes longer than my old washer.)

Now I am DRYING that load of 3 handtowels, 4 bathtowels, a thin cotton tablecloth, and a queensize sheet. I am drying it on the NORMAL cycle (so it doesn't use the HIGH HEAT it would use if I put it on the HEAVYDUTY cycle).

So far it has been drying the load for exactly 90 minutes and everything is still VERY damp.

Has anyone else had problems with the DRYING TIME of the MAYTAG EPIC GAS DRIER??

If two dryers you've tried both are suffering with long times, then I'd say 99.9999% chance you do have a venting problem. Or maybe a gas supply problem?

A washer's cycle time is not directly related to spin time (or spin speed). I can get a 2 hr 40 min cycle on my toploader and have it spin at only 300 RPM depending on what options are used. If your old Maytag washer was of the Dependable Care (two belt) design, high spin speed was 618 RPM. The Epic's highest spin speed is considerably faster, 1200 or 1000 RPM depending on which model.

Personally, I would not dry sheets & towels together, the fabric weights are too dissimilar (towels thick/heavy, sheets thin & lighter weight), although that isn't directly related to your problem. I always dry towels at high heat. Why are you afraid of using that setting?

I have to agree with dadoes. The first thing you should do is have your dryer ductwork cleaned.

When I first got my gas dryer (Kenmore HE3 Â similar to yours), I noticed my dry times going UP compared to my old washer/dryer. My long, twisty, and dirty venting was reducing the volume of air blown through the dryer, causing the high temp thermostat in the dryer to trip. The dryer would not get as warm as it should, and drying time was greatly increased. It seems that the high temp thermostat on the new dryer was set at a much lower temp than my old dryer. Once I cleaned my venting and replaced some flexible plastic venting with rigid metal, the drying times were greatly reduced.

When my venting is clean the dryer can dry a big load of towels in 30 minutes. Now it takes closer to 60 minutes, so I know it is time to clean my vent again. It has been about a year.

Joe

If the air ain't hot,
then working it's NOT.

Nowdays everything says dry with low heat..even my heavy thick cotton towels say to use low heat.