Feedback on Trane quote for 5-ton + 3-ton system?

11 years ago

I am replacing two systems in my house. Would anyone care to give feedback on this deal? I want to get it done in the next few weeks. I was going to look at other manufacturers but unless I'm going to save a LOT of money I'm not that inclined to. Humidity in the house has been a problem this year so I am excited at the idea of dehumidify on demand.

Yes we did a manual J and a manual D and yes the capacities and ductwork seem to be up to scratch (with some minor duct adjustment in the basement). The house is an old (at least 40 years old) 3700sqft ranch in St. Louis with a gigantic great room with a vaulted ceiling as the main part of the house. The bedrooms are actually reminiscent of a 70's ranch-style house.

The 5-ton system will service the great room/kitchen den (which is the bulk of the square footage) and the 3-ton will service the bedrooms.

Here's the quote - it doesn't seem all that ridiculous to me but would be interested in what you all think.

System 1:

4TWX5060 (5 ton X15i)

TUD2C100A9V5 80% 100kbtu VS furnace)

4TXCC060 Coil

$8800

System 2

4TWX5036 (3 ton X15i)

TUD2B080A9V3 (80% 80kbtu VS furnace)

4TXCB036 coil

$7300

The whole system comes out to around 16k, to include honeywell visionpro IAQ tstats and I think 4" or 5" media filters. Installer swears current lineset is sufficient. so no new lineset or electrical work needed. I think I can get around 1200 in rebates for this system (16.5 SEER) which would bring the cost don to more like 14k.

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Comments (5)

harlemhvacguy
11 years ago
jawhitti,

Where did you get those model #'s? Off of a quote?

The 5 ton system should be more like twx5061 and even at that none of those matches comes anywhere close to 16.5 SEER. Match up is not good one. You can use the ahri directory to find much better one. 3 ton system is a match up that is more around 14 SEER.
The 5 ton quote you give uses 21" wide cabinet furnace and coil. The 24" wide cabinets work much better for SEER ratings. Is there a space constraint problem?

Price is not out of the ballpark but since 5 ton system is not good match up it is not a good deal in my opinion.
tigerdunes
11 years ago
What size systems are you replacing?

Definitely, I would want the 5 ton HP to have two stages.

Just curious, why the 80% eff two stage furnaces? I may know why. Would like to hear from you.

All quality equipment. Pricing reasonable with the HW VP IAQ and media
filter cabinets. If interested, I think on the HW stat, a WiFi version with app is available. Might be worthwhile to look into.

Still alot of BTU firepower both cooling and heating. You want to be sized correctly. You have a load calc in writing on the software letterhead and
have reviewed carefully for accuracy and good design temps for your location both inside and out, cooling and heating?

IMO
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I assume you mean a two stage unit. All two stage units come in whole ton sizes. You need to get a load calculation done on your house. Sometimes it is called a "Manual J". The technician measures each room, accounts for insulation, window area, sun exposure, etc to size the AC load. A two stage A/C is an expensive piece of equipment and you don't just want to assume you need the same size as you had before. The general ideal with a two stage is that you round off to the next higher whole size based on the load calculation, but even that might vary according to how close the load calculation is to the next lower size, or extreme high humidity situations. In most two stage units, the lower stage is about 70% of the capacity. So with less demand, the A/C will put out less cooling, which will produce longer cycles. Where do you live and what is the size of your house? Are you replacing your furnace? If not, what is the model?
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Your situation really doesn't surprise me, if I have seen it once I have seen it a thousand times. While the bedroom / bonus room have low air as you stated the combination of this problem plus no return or thermostat control in those areas just due to where the equipment is placed or the longer run of those ducts can create comfort issues in the heat of summer. When there is light exposed to what the real problem is gives a better ability to offer things that will rectify the issue. In dealing with hot spots a zone system is a higher cost option to rectify the issue for the simple reason a zone system has the ability to better control a system. The caveat if you will is the 'design'... the other thing is architectural limitations of the structure. While some situations in which a zone system is used can reduce equipment costs, that is not it's only function. If rooms are a considerable difference from the equipment that serves it, a zoned system may be the best method to rectify that issue. The other method would be to relocate the equipment to a more central location within the structure so that the ducting to each area is more equal. In a zone system the equipment will cool / heat each zone independently so while location of the equipment is still some what important, not as much as a non-zoned system. A new return added to a hot spot will help, but it may not rectify the issue 100% for the simple reason the thermostat location now can not sense temperature in that area. If you move the thermostat then the problem is merely shifted to a new area outside the reach of the thermostat. This is how a zone system excels. Provided the design is done correctly. While it's true that 2 speed, 5 speed and full on inverter systems excel in a humid climate, that is not the only purpose of those machines. Because of the high utility cost in the location of where this structure is... it is in the interest of this home owner to choose the most efficient equipment they can. If it were me I would go with Inverter system 20 SEER or higher. (5 speed or full inverter variable) If you can't afford both at once or you want to make sure a company is worth their salt, consider awarding a company with the system that has the problem area first. Tell them if they rectify the issue with the trouble spots you will reward them with replacing the other system as well. If you hire them and it goes terribly wrong, hire in another contractor to fix the problems and then you have something to use leverage to get another contractor to take over the maintenance and service of both systems... the contractor who fixes the problem system gets the right to replace the other system. Additionally given the information of those hot spot problems, trying to drop this to total of 5 tons of cooling would be a disaster. For others that happen to read this thread with similar problems I service the Katy, Texas area.
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jawhitti
Original Author
11 years ago
Thank you for the attention.

Yes I got the model numbers from a quote. I'm bummed to hear they are not a good match. That's why I love gardenweb though.

I do not understand how to use the AHRI directory.

Tigerdunes - I'm replacing a 5/3 split. 80% furnance because the install of a 90% (particularly the pvc vent) is problematic in this location, and if I'm going dual-fuel heat pump then I shouldn't be using the furnace that much anyway, right?

I have a load calc on a different company's letterhead (last year). Cooling capacity is accurate, heating is a bit of overkill on the 3-ton side but I think that's because the furnace is being sized to the AC not the load.

Reviewing the audit results from last year I think I will get more mileage improving insulation and sealing duct work than buying fancy equipment - it might even let me downsize from a 5-ton to a 4-ton. If you send me an email address I could share the energy audit if you want to see the numbers.

Half of the house is over a concrete-lined crawspace. Trying to decide if it's worth spending ~$1500 to have it sealed. Humidity (especially in the basement) has been a problem this summer. so I'm thinking the answer may be "yes" but I don't have infinite money to spend on this...
overdoze
11 years ago
IMO, the Trane has the hard to clean condenser unit. In dirty environment, it cost quite a bit to clean them.
And if you want to do it yourself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Bx_NTuoPwc

I get the regular tube and aluminum fins carrier or goodman.
I can get almost equivalent units for around 12K after rebate.
Check my quote under thread Infinity owner feedback below.
harlemhvacguy
11 years ago
" IMO, the Trane has the hard to clean condenser unit. In dirty environment, it cost quite a bit to clean them. "

If your contractor charges more to clean one unit over the other run.... he doesn't have very good business practices.

" I can get almost equivalent units for around 12K
after rebate.
Check my quote under thread Infinity owner feedback below. "

His quote is for straight AC with gas heat. yours is for a dual fuel system... Dual fuel systems are more expensive as well as you have a 5 ton system.
Is dual fuel what you wanted?

Feedback on Trane quote for 5-ton + 3-ton system?

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harlemhvacguy

tigerdunes

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Feedback on Trane quote for 5-ton + 3-ton system?

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harlemhvacguy

tigerdunes

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jawhittiOriginal Author

overdoze

harlemhvacguy

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jawhitti
Original Author