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Heating & Air Conditioning

Electric Radiant Heat Vs. Heat Pump Water Heaters

15 years ago

We are getting ready to remodel our home and I want to replace existing forced air gas furnace with either electric radiant heat or a heat pump water heater (provides heating, colling, and hot water). I am installing solar PV panels and replacing existing carpeting with strand woven bamboo flooring throughout house (except bathrooms). I have been able to find information on the U.S. government D.O.E EERE site regarding the heat pump water heater but not commercially. Does anyone know of the heat pump water heater technology?

Thanks

Jim

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Comments (3)

fsq4cw
15 years ago
The most efficient way to heat your radiant in-floor and domestic hot water is with a water-to-water geothermal heat pump. If you would also like air-conditioning too, use a triple function geothermal heat pump; full capacity hot water for radiant in floor and domestic hot water as well as forced air for both heating & cooling. Divide your electrical rate by the COP of the GSHP to determine the cost per kW. ItÂs usually a factor of 3.5~5.
Geothermal has the highest initial cost but the money goes directly into the value of your home. Geo also has the lowest operating & lifecycle cost and highest user satisfaction rate.

Did I mention GREEN?

After opening the link below, click 'Products' then click 'TR-Series', then download the R410a Models pdf.

SR

Here is a link that might be useful: Nordic Triple Function Series GSHP
garymunson-2008
15 years ago
Where are you located? Makes a big difference in ROI.
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You can run hydronic radiant with only a 1/2" rise in floor height - you just need some plywood with channels for the tubing, such as QuickTrak (http://www.pexsupply.com/Quik-Trak-Radiant-Heat-System-819000) - I have a bit over 2000sqft in my house and it's fantastic. (I'm not affiliated with any manufacturer or vendor.) The 1-1/2" suggestion likely came from someone looking to float concrete, which is also a valid approach, but not necessary. It gets you thermal mass which has positives and negatives; I wouldn't worry about it. The WarmBoard mentioned above is the same approach as the QuickTrak (subfloor+radiant-on-top) except that it is its own subfloor, whereas QuickTrak goes over your existing subfloor. All that said, I think the biggest concern for you is your slab. If it's not insulated well underneath you'll just be heating mother earth and it's all a waste of time and energy, no matter whether it's electric or hydronic. And finally, on a pedantic note, electric radiant _is_ more efficient because it's a nearly 100% energy-to-heat conversion, by definition; however, the cost per unit of energy is generally significantly lower for gas versus electricity (1:2 in the Pacific Northwest for example), so hydronic off a gas-fired boiler is going to be more _cost-effective_.
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Do you have propane fired ANYTHING? That would be the killer for me. Almost 100% of homes have electricity. Very few homes have propane hook-ups. Some have them for their outdoor BBQs or their outdoor KITCHENS (which are tens of thousands of dollars worth of outdoor renovations). And hydronic (water/gel/oil) tubing can be driven by it's own boiler (like a hot water tank but only for the flooring). It can be fired/powered by electricity or by natural gas, or propane. Your choice. If you find it difficult to access propane or too expensive to go with the tubing you might as well go electric. And to be clear, the tubing is more expensive and takes up more floor space and requires more work (labour costs) and COULD LEAD to a FLOOR HEIGHT raise that is not very comfortable to deal with. But I'm making assumptions without knowing how your kitchen subfloor (and ceiling in the basement) is set up.
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"For comparison, the cheapest Rheem gas 40 gallon hot water heater in Home Depot has a 36 GPM recovery." Sure. For many products, performance and price go together. Lower price, lower performance, and the opposite is also true. I've learned that a quick assessment of relative recovery time can be done by comparing a product's BTU output, in thousands, to its size in gallons. A 50 gallon tank that has a 45K BTU or less capability will recover much slower and provide less hot water in an hour than one that has 50K BTUs or more. I looked quickly and found a "quick recovery" 50 gallon tank with a 65K BTU burner and maybe even larger ones are made. And, of course, continuous hot water at lower flow rates can be had with an instant hot water unit. Or connecting two tanks in series also will do the same thing. That might be a clever thing to do for an all electric house with more occupants needing greater capacity at times - two heat pump water heaters connected in series, the first one remaining in heat pump mode most of the time to supply warmed or hot water to the second one used in hybrid mode, that feeds the home's hot water pipes.
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countryboymo
15 years ago
I think that a heat pump water heater big enough to support radiant floor heating would cool the area it was in so much you would need supplemental heat in that room to offset it. If you are in the south than I can not see spending the money to go radiant floor for the small amount of heating months you would have. Heat pump water heaters in a residential environment are aimed toward hot water use for bathing cleaning etc.
I agree with fsq4cw, if you want to make a real impact and do radiant floor go with geothermal or dx geothermal.

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