Radiant heat floors: Electric vs water/propane based?
Marilyn Dispensa
4 years ago
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4 years agolast modified: 4 years agoRelated Discussions
propane heat vs. electric heat
Comments (39)GROUND UP TO U: (vs. in-ground) Since 1980: about 7,ooo btuh [separately in a ditch] in damp clay as described below can be extracted from 52-deg earth with every 500 ft of 3/4" Poly-Black tubing and circulated easily [up to 5-3/4" pipe runs with a header to 1.1/4"] hdpe pipe 160 psi thicker sdr-9 www.geothermal-pipe.com www.flowcenterproducts.com on one 1) 1/6 hp (B&G pl 33) if the loop is ~ 35 degrees (chilled) by/on www.hydro-temp.com (ARKANSAS) a heat-pump, having ~ 18% methanol antifreeze by volume ~20% glycol, for usable(net) output per the following: if at a depth of ~6-to-7ft, lower piping runs (back-in-bottom-of-ditch-tightly-packed) x ditch length of 245 ft, up to 3-pipes in 2ft ditch and on the bottom of the ditch, up to 5 piping runs (2 ditches) on 1) pump 1/6hp damp clay soil, and returns back in same ditch as follows: RETURNS are on top at a depth of ~5ft (4.1/2 settles to 5ft in backfilling~) like a 'hair-pin over under design on side view... each ditch may support a "2-TON" Hydro-Temp, which is equal to others' 2.2/2-"ton" rated units that use higher than normal blower speeds, or water:water with over pumping to just get "high" ratings... LOOK at COMPRESSOR labels: they should have a 19,000-24,000 btuh compressor IF VERY WET, 52-DEG SUPPORTS A 30,OOO COMPRESSOR IN THAT DESCRIBED DITCH FOR RATINGS @ "3.0-TONS" YOU GET ONLY ~85% OF ANY COMPRESSOR ON ~34-DEG LOOPS... Directly GeoLoops : ECL's (Earth Coupled Loops) are generally producing only ~ 4,200 btuh at 40-degrees/avg and high volumes of ~ 3.1/2 gpm per 3/4"pipe and no antifreeze keeping things obove 38-degrees (ie @ 37 entering ECL, from loads applied/ with or without a heat pump... )...See MoreHeat: Propane vs. Electric - Thoughts?
Comments (21)You don't need a geothermal system to have reasonable heating & cooling bills. There were 2 options that i looked at and both were about the same cost and would have provided about the same efficiency. For both options, I selected high efficiency windows with e glass and argon gas as well as doors that have 3 point locks and tight seals all the way around. The first option was the geothermal system with blown cellulose insultation in the walls & attic. For the attic, I specified R38 insultation (about 11 inches of cellulose) - the minumum code in our area is R30. The second option was a spray foam insulation package and high efficiency heat pumps. In this option, the foam in the attic would have been sprayed onto the inner side of the roof so that all space inside the house would be insulated space, and the foam does the best job at blocking air from entering or leaving the home. With this option, an air exchanger system would be needed on the HVAC to bring in a fresh supply of conditioned air inside the house periodically. The spray foam cost is a lot more than the cellulose, but the heat pump HVAC system is a lot less than a geothermal heat pump system (mainly due to the extra cost of digging the pit or wells for the geothermal pipes). In the end, both of these approaches would have cost about the same. I chose GT because that is what I always wanted for my dream home, it was as simple as that. I know a heat pump system can work in a temperature zone like the Blue Ridge Mountains in the mid-atlantic region where I live, provided that the house is insulated AND air infiltration is minimized - well beyond minimum code requirements. You might look at buying a heat pump that has propane as the auxilairy heat (I believe they make these now). As mentioned above, if you live in a really harsh climate zone like Wisconsin - then a heat pump might not be the best choice. Spend extra money on the insulation package, put in the very best windows & doors, caulk the interior of the house - every nook and cranny, insulate under the foundation slab - do all the things you can to insulate and minimize air infiltration and then you can keep your heating and cooling bills down. I suggest looking at how new homes in Canada are built (check out Holmes on Homes) and build to their standards - the Canadians seem far ahead of the U.S. in building codes for energy efficient homes. Have you selected a builder yet? If not - make sure that you pick one who really knows how to build energy efficient homes. Don't ask them open ended questions - let them tell you all the steps they take and extra things they do to make the house as energy efficient as it can be. If you only insulate to minimum code and don't take the extra steps to minimize air infiltration - your monthly bills will be high no matter what HVAC power plant you use. These extra steps I mention cost money. But it is a pay me now or pay me later proposition. If you plan on living in the house for a long time, then it would be wise to make the investment now, when it is most cost effective to do so....See MoreGeneral Propane vs Electric and Heat Pump?
Comments (1)There are cost calculators out there to help you with HP vs Propane. Look around. 1. yes, the electric heat strips/coils are much less efficient in producing heat than a HP. But that varies with temperature. With a decent HP (15 SEER or greater), the HP might be 3 times as efficient at 50F. The 1 to 1 point might be in the upper 20s. There are, of course, variations. 2. Doing temperature setbacks, then slowly increasing the temp for recovery is not a silly waste of time, though once again it depends on the amount of the setback and the outdoor temperature when recovery starts. A newer electronic HP thermostat can take care of this for you automagically. Some have an outdoor temp sensor attachment that helps even more. 3. yes, conventional electric heat is heat strips. About the most expensive you can buy. People in your situation who have both HP and propane think real hard and have success with 'dual fuel' installations. The cost savings depends on the cost difference between electricity and propane. You use the HP down to the point where either comfort or cost requires you to switch over to propane. This is handled by that smart thermostat with the outdoor temp sensor....See MoreElectric Radiant Heat Vs. Heat Pump Water Heaters
Comments (3)The most efficient way to heat your radiant in-floor and domestic hot water is with a water-to-water geothermal heat pump. If you would also like air-conditioning too, use a triple function geothermal heat pump; full capacity hot water for radiant in floor and domestic hot water as well as forced air for both heating & cooling. Divide your electrical rate by the COP of the GSHP to determine the cost per kW. ItÂs usually a factor of 3.5~5. Geothermal has the highest initial cost but the money goes directly into the value of your home. Geo also has the lowest operating & lifecycle cost and highest user satisfaction rate. Did I mention GREEN? After opening the link below, click 'Products' then click 'TR-Series', then download the R410a Models pdf. SR Here is a link that might be useful: Nordic Triple Function Series GSHP...See Moremtvhike
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