Wow Cathy... I would have never thought of that. Yep, new perspective.

I've been out with several people who add enhancers to their water. But I have seen people that ask the waiter for a cup of hot water and then add their teabag. Now that's tacky.

My DH and I have had the same conversation about the price of drinks. I am a water drinker, but as soon as he sits down, he tells the waiter, "I'll have coffee now and tea with my meal." I can't help but think that is adding $5 or $6 dollars to the meal!

I suppose it is an individual preference, though. One time at breakfast with my Mom, I ordered coffee which I drink black. I slipped 2 packets of "the blue stuff" into my purse and she promptly reprimanded me for "stealing"! I told her that I felt I was entitled to 2 packs since I paid for the coffee. She certainly disagreed.

Who knew?

Nope, I wouldn't add a water enhancer. There is no need to. There are selections on the menu if I don't care for their water. If they don't have choices that I like, I don't go to that restaurant. I would be embarrassed out of my mind if my dinner guests put additives into their water to make a different beverage. As for my husband commenting about the cost of a beverage...well let's just say that would be the last time he would ever do that. The next time I would order the most expensive item I liked. That would give him something to complain about! (luckily Wayne would never do such a picky thing. We know the price points of the restaurants we go to. Expensive and moderate priced ones.) NancyLouise

I've gone back and re-read this thread a number of times. I've decided that there is nothing wrong with what Cathy is asking.

Would I do it? Probably not. But only because I do not like water or crystal light.

My drink of choice at diner/family style restaurants is diet pepsi. If it is a better restaurant than I'm probably having a glass of wine.

Most restaurants usually serve water automatically. So if I don't drink the water it is going to waste. So what is better? Letting the water go to waste or adding something to flavour it?

I'd hardly be embarrassed if a friend flavoured their water. Life is way to short.

Ann

I think from a restaurant's point of view, if you give them the same choices that you give the customer; i.e., allow the use water enhancer with your meal or stay home, I believe that the restaurant would choose the former. Personally, I find it very objectionable for a restaurant to charge $2.50 for something that is worth a dime, but they are following a marketing/economics ploy. Sometimes I order a drink with a meal and sometimes I only order water, but I eat out less for the simple reason that I do not like to pay stupid prices for drinks. If restaurants would have a special 25 cent drink night, I would go out more often. Bars in Houston used to do that to help improve business, but in the 1970s, it was 10 cent drink night.

I put the blame on the restaurants for this situation - if they would charge a decent price for drinks (and raise the price of the meals, if necessary), then we would not be having this discussion. Instead, they charge whatever they think they can get away with to help their profit margins without regard to the wishes of the clients who will then order only water. What is so wrong with wanting prices to be fair? I've also gone to restaurants that had waiters (and often a maitre d') with very bad condescending attitudes. Of course I never return to those restaurants and prefer the friendly places like the one that Karen went to.

I agree with Ann and Cathy that Karen is a very warm and extremely generous person.

Lars

I haven't read this thread in a few days. opened it up this morning and just about choked on my coffee.
Riverrat (Karen) is the nicest, least tacky person I have ever met. Tacky is a word that would never apply to Karen. I'll even go so far as saying that anyone that would use that word to describe her is being very tacky themselves.

This thread is missing an important point, IMO. Please excuse me if someone has already pointed this out, I didn't go back and reread all the posts this morning.

As new products come into existence they may alter some of the old school manners. The use of cell phones is one example. I've seen the shift in society's acceptance of them. They have become a way of life that our mother's couldn't teach us about because they didn't exist back then. I see the day coming when restaurants will be charging for water, put in it whatever you want or add nothing at all.

Nancy

"Most restaurants usually serve water automatically."

Not in my part of Texas.
That practice was stopped quite a number of years ago.
Strictly because it is such a huge waste of a resource.
If you want water, you have to ask for it.
And that makes sense to me.

The places that include a drink in the price of a meal
(usually a lunch special)
Do not discount the meal if water is ordered.
And that, too, is fine by me.

But ordering water just because it is free,
then adding an enhancer
Still seems a bit on the 'tacky' side to me.

Rusty

Nancy, I made that same point (new pocket products changing social morays ) to one of several CF posters who emailed me about this unexpected hot topic.

Sorry Karen, I don't know how the focus changed to your tacky behavior (not) when obviously I am the one who is tacky, cheap, unethical, and crooked for contemplating the use of one of these products. I hope the many times we have dined together I haven't been too much of an embarrassment to you my friend; well except for the butter thing (but there was a good reason!). LOL

....... and a Criminal! Cathy dont forget you are a criminal too! hahaha!! Great reading - aren't you glad you posted this question?

You can add whatever you like to your water, you'll never offend me either Cathy.

Cathy, you are anything but, "one who is tacky, cheap, unethical, and crooked for contemplating the use of one of these products". You are right up next to Karen on my list of great people I have met in person from the CF!

Nancy

Sushi said, "The manager was polite and well-trained, but no matter what he said to you, he still thought that you were cheap and tacky."

IMHO, I think that calling someone on a forum "cheap and tacky" is extremly tacky in my opinion. I don't care if you (sushi) think I'm tacky. It is only an opinion that I have about water enhancers. So let's keep it real. What you said to me is a cheap shot! LOL! Gotta keep the words "tacky and cheap" in the same paragraph. So now I'm cheap and tacky because I'm calling you out on this one ;-) Not cheap and tacky because of how I feel about water enhancers.

I must hang out with lot's of cheap and tacky women because in my group we would always ask first if the restaurant would mind such a thing. Of course we would ask first if they had "so and so" on the menu. Then we would make sure to tip accordingly if we decided to add "so and so" to our whatever.

I too save the hotel shampoo and other items for the women's shelter. They really are very happy to get my once a year donation of hotel goodies along with a check!

Ann, Cathy, Lars and Nancy, thank you for the kind words that you have said about me. It's nice to hear that my Mom did a great job in raising me. She would have never told me "that if you don't like what they serve, then go somewhere else or stay home." Please, over a water enhancer! I think not.

Cathy said "Sorry Karen, I don't know how the focus changed to your tacky behavior (not) when obviously I am the one who is tacky, cheap, unethical, and crooked for contemplating the use of one of these products. I hope the many times we have dined together I haven't been too much of an embarrassment to you my friend; well except for the butter thing (but there was a good reason!). LOL

Please, no need for apologies! LOL! I would dine with you and Nancy anytime, especially in our jail uniforms!

I was surprised to see so many posts on this thread! From my experience, neither Cathy nor RR (Karen) are tacky, cheap, or uncouth individuals. I would dine with them anywhere, anytime....and I have (dined with both of them.)

Now if you want to talk tacky - let's address the use of toothpicks in public, OK? Someday I may make it my personal mission to photograph any male or female and show them just how charming and attractive they look with a toothpick stuck in their mouth!

Teresa - who wouldn't be caught dead with a toothpick in her mouth in front of anyone!

The worst is when people blow their nose at the table. Usually not my own dining companions, but neighboring tables have definitely been guilty. It's so disgusting and makes me lose my appetite.

One thing that I think perhaps has not been stressed enough is that you are not a "guest" at a restaurant, despite how much they might like you to believe you are. You pay...you pay for everything there when you buy something else. You pay for the upkeep of the rest rooms, the trimming of the bushes outside and for everything that comes to your table. But the restaurant does not incur additional costs for what you add to your meal that you take out of your purse. If I used my own soap to wash my hands when I went to the rest room, would that be poor taste?...or as you put it, tacky? I never drink water with a meal, but every place I go to eat, but for the Mexican restaurant serves me a glass of water with the menu. Is it tacky of me not to drink it?

Perhaps what seems to have raised the ire of so many is that Sushi called Karen ( and Cathy) tacky....not their behavior, but themselves.
I think we need to remember there is a difference between going to someone's home as a guest, and going to a restaurant where you are not a guest but a customer. I would never add a water enhancer to my glass while a guest in someone's home, but would not even blink at doing it in a restaurant.
Linda C

"I would never add a water enhancer to my glass while a guest in someone's home, but would not even blink at doing it in a restaurant."

Amen, me too, me too. There is a difference!

Think I'll start a campaign to have restaurants charge money for the toothpicks at the register! Ha! That'll get em'!

I agree, this thread has degenerated into personal name calling, which is just about the time I mostly abandon the threads.

Robin, we ARE sisters, I think. Elery teases me every time I stop to use a bathroom and come out with a Diet Coke or a cup of coffee, LOL, and says he'll start looking harder for rest stops to save time!

Karen, I've also met you personally and find you warm, sweet, funny and well mannered. I'd go to dinner with you any time, although I'd be more likely to embarrass you!

Cathy, come to White Cloud. In spite of the sign (Where the North begins and pure waters flow), the water is awful, at least my "city water" is. Even Raymond would have to have a "water enhancer", I guarantee it! I don't think you are criminal, cheap, unethical, crooked or tacky and I would not be embarrassed if you used your water enhancer while at lunch with me.

I agree with Lars, the restaurants should charge more for meals instead of making big profits on drinks, but the customers would also complain about the food prices. I know the profit margin is not very big n the small local places and they count on the drink prices to break even on their "specials" and coupons. So, I wouldn't do it, but I don't really care if anyone else does. And I'd still tip the waitress the extra.

Unlike LindaC, I'd be more likely to add the enhancer at a friend's home. Chrystal used to buy bottled water to make coffee at the office and I told her that coffee was brown and White Cloud's water was brown, so it was just like skipping a step. (grin) She disagreed, but everyone here has either a water filter to remove the iron from the water or puts something in their water. the restaurants filter their water.

Annie

I haven't tallied up the responses, but I think there'd be enough negative here to make me think twice about the practice, regardless of my opinion.

I think Annie's second post was spot on. Not only because it happens to match my own initial opinion, but because I "sacrificed" today's lunch hour (and about 50 bucks) to walked away with the same conclusion:

First place: An independent steak house. Not a high-end place but definitely a few steps above the "Aussie" chain.

Second and third places: Upscale Italian restaurants.

At each place I sat at the bar, ordered a scotchsize>, and waited for a manager to come around and asked him the question.

The three managers were stereo-typical Long Islanders, and all three had responses so similar you'd think they were scripted: "Yeah, well, you know, waddayagonna do. Hope you make it up on the next table. Not gonna make an issue of it, but yeah, you know, it is kinda, you know...haha..."

All said they wouldn't call out a customer. All said it's far from the worst they've seen. Two of the three offered related anecdotes about some of their regular customers! Interestingly, they all told me the lemonaid story. But yeah, clearly none of them seemed to like it much.

I'd have continued my survey, but at the last place they poured me second without me asking, so after four it was clearly time go get back to work.

p.s. While I can see how she was misread, I don't think Sushi called anyone tacky. She suggested the manager probably in his mind thought it was tacky regardless of what he said. As I read it.

p.p.s. I'm not among the fortunate who have met Cathy, but the fact that she posed the question because she's concerned that her actions are not taken negatively speaks volumes.

I am very sorry that I offended Cathy and any others. Please forgive me.

Yes, foodonastump, I was implying the manager's unspoken reaction.

Sorry, I meant to say "Karen" in my apology.

Helene, I'm glad you came back to apologize.

I know both of the LADIES well and they truly are my best freinds. If they are tacky in any way, then I want to be just like them if I ever grow up.

Helene, knowing them as I do, I don't think they are mortally offended. I have a feeling they may be having a good old fashioned belly laugh. They are both strong, confident, and well educated women and in the end this is pure "pifel".

FOAS, if you are ever lucky enough to meet them you have met the cream of the crop here. Four scotches at lunch and back to work? Got any openings for me??????

Annie, abandoning a thread with name calling is why people have left the CF. You are a tough one to hold on. Kudos. I never would have known about this if I hadn't gotten emails from people asking me about it.

Peppi, I'm right behind you for that "4 scotch lunch and back to work" job, LOL. Of course, if I drank 4 scotches, I wouldn't be doing anything except lying in a gutter singing about a pig, I think....

Yup, that's me, I'm a cheap date. (grin)

Annie

Thank you for the apologies! I will except them knowing that you wrote something you didn't mean to write.

Now, let this thread die a slow a painful death! ;-)

To my CF sisters and brother. I used to love this place...I still do love this place. It's just different now. I will not ever ever leave. Let's just take a moment to devour what has just happened over a water enhancer. LOL!

I disagree with the premise of this question! I wholeheartedly second Colleen's advice. Your husband has forgotten his manners. There is no way you should be worrying so much about ordering a drink at dinner. They all need occasional retraining, and I think your man is in need of a booster. Personally, I'd probably opt for a direct "I'm not interested in having dinner with someone who nitpicks my order." It sounds like you're a polite sort, so having a few dinners with a family member or friend may help him remember that your company is not a given. I think he'll realize that he's entirely capable of buying you a cup of tea with no whining whatsoever.

Would I ever add water enhancers to water at a restaurant? No, I wouldn't. I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that. It sort of feels like cheating to me.

I've got to say though, that if my husband ever complained about my choice of beverage at dinner we would be having quite a discussion before going out again. And also, the next time he suggested eating out I would have to ask if we had enough money for my beverage, or if we perhaps might need to save for a few more days in order to have a complete meal.

I often do drink water with a slice of lemon for dinner, but if I feel like having iced tea or even throwing caution to the wind by ordering a glass of wine I certainly want to feel that I can do so without having to explain my choices.

LOL, Peppi and Annie - No openings, sorry, I'm hanging on by a thread myself!

Peppi - Maybe some people leaving is a good thing? This is the first contentious thread in several months that I've noticed. Definitely a record in recent history, LOL!

I have a feeling the money issue is part of Mustangs husbands nature, not a "we can't afford it".

I know I have a hard time ordering the more expensive items on a menu just from being frugal. Same with appetizers and desserts unless it's a business expense.
Dh is the same only much, much more so. Very frugal.
Will not order anything that is not a "good value".
If he wants juice, he would buy a liter from the grocery store, on sale ( still name brand though) and not a single serving at a convenience store.

Doesn't matter how much the restaurant costs, it still has to deliver the goods at it's price point.
If we have decided to go out to a great place, we will have looked at the menu ahead of time and discussed what we will order. This is something I enjoy but we do occasionally do something spontaneous too.

One reason we both love cruises!! I can give a sigh of relief that each restaurant won't be analyzed to death before ordering and I can order anything I want.
Of course, I could order anything I want but who wants to make it an issue at the time?

Conversely, we have really benefited from his frugality although sometimes it still irks me.

Peppi, nice to see you posting again. Even if, as FOAS points out, it is to the one contentious post we have had in months. Welcome back.

Ann

Well, IMO, this thread, although somewhat contentious, did NOT degenerate into the kind of unpleasant postings we have experienced in the past. Yes, some terms like "criminal" were used, but the posters seemed to be saying, "if *I* did it, *I* would feel like a criminal," not really calling other people names.

After all, we're talking about moral/ethical dilemmas, which may appear, on the surface, to be trivial, but they are indicative of the way we were raised and our own personal choices, and we bring our cultural, regional, familial, and personal differences and attitudes to the debate.

Personally, I think there's a difference between making a drink palatable/digestible (e.g., adding your own artificial sweetener to your coffee or taking a Lactaid tablet with your dairy food) and creating a different food or drink that's not on the menu. But it's a very fine line, and I respect people who decide, for themselves, to take a position on either side of the line.

This has been a very interesting and thought-provoking discussion!

Sue

Peppi was gone?...Where?

Jude :
I think you response was about the best.

Maybe we can get this into the Supreme Court, to let them decide.

LOU

PS:
I am not going to tell anyone that I like Olive Garden and Mc Donalds.

C'mon folks, let this post slip away. Please don't post here anymore!

Ellen, Agree but Raymond is weighed in:

I hadn't shared with Ray anything about this thread but this morning he asked what are all these emails about water? So I asked him to read the thread. I should have asked for his thoughts on this before. Being a "big picture" guy, he thought a moment then said (I had to take notes): Well tell them that considering the number of times we eat out that's a savings of $1,248 a year and $6,240 in five years which covers our trip to Europe. And the savings on our end is spread out among numerous restaurants.
If the water isn't good, I will reorder a Coke or tea.
I frequently order overpriced beer.
I'm note crazy, I know better than to dictate what you do; I just point out that if you liked water like I do, we would have saved $xx on the bill.
I never suggest that you use water enhancers-I didn't even know what they were until I read this.
When I take my college team on a road trip I remind them when I had out their per diem that I expect them to use good manners and tip well.

Cathy:
Ray , has a good head on his shoulders.

Padre, Figlio, Spirto Santo,- - - Amen !!!
LOU

Cathy, I've been kind of afraid to post to this! That said, I loved Raymond's response, in addition to the fact he was curious enough to ask you, ''What are all these emails about water?'' What a guy! Nonjudgmental, yet pragmatic to boot. Thanks for grin. I always appreciate hearing about the ''conversation'' that takes place between the two of you, when it happens!

Sorry, Ray, no sale. That argument could be made about many of our choices (I could save x dollars if I canceled my cable subscription, y dollars if I bought all my jeans at Kmart, and z dollars if I only bought $7 bottles of wine). Everyone chooses to indulge in different arenas and to different extents. Your wife is an intelligent woman with a full understanding of the fact that money spent on dinners out can't then be spent on vacations. It's apparent that she's considerate enough not to overextend you financially. Your end of that bargain is to act like a gentleman.

Jessica - Do some simple math. If that's the annual cost of Cathy's soda then it's apparent that going out to eat is not an occassional luxury but a daily way of life. As such, Ray wanting to be cost conscious is no less gentlemanly than turning off the lights when he leaves a room.

I also have to stick with my original post about commenting on the price of the beverage. If my Wayne was that "cost conscious" about the price of a beverage and repeatedly reminded me of it, we wouldn't be going out to dinner at all. Or should I say he wouldn't be going with me. He just lets me enjoy what I like and I give him the same respect back. NancyLouise

Oh Geewiz! I happen to know Raymond better than most of you other folks on this forum. He is a generous, loving man. He prefers water over a beverage and probably is teasing Cathy in her beverage choice. He could care less about what Cathy orders at a restaurant! I know them both and they are very respectful of each other. I will stand for what I know and snicker at what most of you don;t know.

I thought I would leave this thread alone afer my last post but really...jessicavanderhoff, we all chose to spend our money in the way that fits our life style. I've been to Cathy's beautiful home and have met Raymond on many occasions. They brought me to an outstanding restaurant on the Bay in Tampa. There was no holds bar on the beverage that we chose. The meal was incrediable (with swan desserts and highly decorated foods)and one meal that I won't soon forget!

Jessica, We all have opinions. On a forum it really is HOW you present them. I find you to be disrespectful of Raymond. YOU don't know him so how can you judge him so harsly to say he is not a genteleman?

Let's just let this go. I know by me posting that I may stir up a hive of bees but I felt the need to let you know that I personally love this couple. They are a perfect couple that love each other very much. They have much respect and love in their marriage. I Know that they don't squabble over the price of a beverage.

Since I've had the privilege of meeting and spending some quality time with them both (and know of what I speak) DITTO to what Riverrat said! I can see Raymond grinning with those beautiful dimples when he said it too, which is why I found it amusing. It's easy to have an opinion when one doesn't really know what time it is!

FOAS, I disagree. When a man does something himself to save money, that's being polite. When he asks his wife to make a sacrifice that inconveniences her and not him, it has a different effect. I don't mean to sound like a princess here. I go out of my way not to spend the amount of money my bf tries to spend buying me dinner, and also to research restaurants so that he spends his money well rather than on disappointing food. I mostly order tap water, and he tends to drink several liters of designer water. But, I take for granted that my choices would never be criticized. I think that when one person is being polite and considerate, the other one should be too.

NancyLouise, that's exactly how I feel. People should be good company to each other.

Riverrat, I don't mean to say that I've written off their marriage or think that Raymond's a bad guy. I said he needed a reminder of how to be polite company. To me, a wife who's worried enough about the cost of a beverage to make a post asking if it's polite to carry water enhancers implies more than just a playful argument from someone who really doesn't care at all. Given the considerable dining-out budget, it seems that this isn't an issue of not being able to pay the mortgage if she orders a soda. I consider these the factors that are relevant to forming an opinion. The fact that he's a good husband with dimples who is generally a gentleman is really good news, but I don't see how it changes the question. Since this is unsolicited advice on an internet forum, and Mustangs and her water-preferring husband are fully entitled to ignore me completely, I'm not sure there's any need for offense. Of course, you're entitled to feel however you feel. I stand by my pro-beverage stance.

Get outta here! Really Jessica!

Jessaica said " I go out of my way not to spend the amount of money my bf tries to spend buying me dinner, and also to research restaurants so that he spends his money well rather than on disappointing food. I mostly order tap water, and he tends to drink several liters of designer water." ????????? Wha?? Isn't that one in the same of what Cathy was talking about in the inital post? Being polite and considerate is what Cathy and Ray are all about. You have missed something here.

My husband and I (as a couple) choose to save, spend and enjoy a beverage of our choice when we are out. Just as Cathy and Raymond. Leave this alone. So not worth it.

And, BTW, Raymond's dimples are to die for!

Wow Jessica, you are like a dog with a bone. You just won't let go.

Cathy is a well loved member of the cooking forum and has been for many years. Your opinion of her Raymond is so far off base that it is ridiculous.

I hope that Cathy has stopped reading this thread.

Ann

Riverrat, I was trying to make it clear that I am not just spoiled or entitled. We all prefer different indulgences, and I am not the type of woman who demands every expensive thing I come across. That's the point I'm trying to make-- not that people should only order water. This is not about being overindulgent, it's about consideration for your dining partner. I don't consider it polite or considerate to criticize someone's menu choices, especially not to the point where she's considering carrying Crystal Light in her purse.

Cathy,

He'd have had a big laugh if he saw all the "non-water beverages" the whole table was ordering when we went out. He'd have fainted at buying an entire bottle! 'specially me, I think I ordered at least two drinks at every meal.

I cannot believe this thread is still going strong. I'm shaking my head in disbelief.

Yeah, and we keep going up to 150, right? No starting a #2 at 100 because there's no pictures?

;-)

....Jessica wrote; "I don't consider it polite or considerate to criticize someone's menu choices, especially not to the point where she's considering carrying..."

Whoa there. Many restaurants don't list the price of dinner beverages on their menus....the sticker shock when the check comes often will cause a comment from the person in the dinner party reviewing the bill.

Maybe its just us, but I actually often ask my husband the bill total and then ask what the charge was for the coke (or bourban + water).

Example; " $ 2.50 for that coke!!!" or " you're kidding me! $12.00 for the Jack and water!!!!!!!"

Nothing about being rude, something most married people can and do talk about.

ML. (aka another Cathy, still hoping to meet THE Cathy)

THE Cathy. I like that. (grin)

Poor Raymond. He's such a sweetheart, if he says anything about the drinks, just remind him of the very expensive knife still stuck in the tree, LOL.

For the record, I've also met both Raymond and Cathy. I've met Cathy more than once. I think because I have met them personally, I tend to be a bit more protective and maybe a bit defensive.

It seems that we've now gotten to the point where everyone is going to defend their "position" on this, although each person here has their own opinions, their own relationships and how they interact with their SO is not my business. I say whatever works for you in your own relationships is good by me and I'm not so sure how this became a critique of social interactions rather than the simple question it was designed to be.

Because of that, I also would like to see this thread be allowed to just move down the line and die a natural death. I'm hoping that my post is the last one and that the forum returns to cooking.

Annie