The engineered tomato plants produced fruits that were paler than usual, but also had a stronger aroma and smelled distinctly of perfume, rose, geranium, and lemongrass. More than half of a panel of taste testers preferred the engineered tomato to its unengineered parent.

*****

Here's the way it is Cynthia. I want a tomato to taste and smell like a TOMATO, old lady that I am. LOL

Last I knew over 400 organic molecules had been IDed by mass spectroscopy as having to do with tomato taste and i assume aroma, but not one had been traced back to a specific gene that could be used for genetic engineering, thank heavens.

For many years certain breeders, and Dr. Randy Gardner is one, have tried breeding into hybrids some of the tastes found with OP varieties, but they say that the fruits from these crosses are too soft for shipping and have a poor shelf life.

So no, I would not be interested in a genetically altered variety that smelled like a rose, or like lemongrass or a geranium or some kind of perfume.

If anything, I like the perfume Eternity, but I can buy that in a bottle if I want to, but I don't even do that these days. I do have a nice set of soap, body lotion, hand lotion, liquid soap and a candle that smell of the fresh clean scent of tomato foliage, called Heirloom Tomato, made by the Spicer Co. but let me never eat a tomato that tastes or smells of any of the things mentioned in that article.

With maybe 12,000 known OP varieties I'm sure that if folks grow enough varieties they can find one with a TOMATO taste and aroma they really like and do so without growing a lot of varieties. It's a statistical gamble which is why I think everyone should grow some new varieties each season.( smile)

Carolyn, who asks what happened to anything related to basil. LOL Of course they can't transfer in that many basil genes so I guess that's why the taste and aroma had nada to do with basil, and thank heavens for that as well. LOL But I do find the chemistry in terms of color changes interesting.

It doesn't say if changes in flavor were associated with changes in shipping ability and if the genetically engineered fruit turn out to be poor shippers, I predict a limited future for them. I'm with Carolyn in preferring tomato flavor in my tomatoes and rose flavor (which I don't much care for as a flavor) in roses. Or perfume. If I want basil mixed with tomatoes I can sprinkle sliced tomatoes with chopped basil and get a better effect.

This experiment may be a harbinger of things to come, a new era of plant modification in which flavor combinations once created by cooks will be re-created--or precreated--by breeders in the plants themselves.

I hope not. I agree with the previous posts - tomatoes should taste and smell like tomatoes. Plus it says these were "more pale"? Color is vital to many when judging a tomato - we see more than we smell ;) - so an anemic looking tomato wouldn't be as appealing regardless of the smell.

Dave

If we go far enuf down this road, all food will have the same smell and taste.

Diverse food products on our supermarket shelves hasn't meant a diversity in food crops, rather it has meant a shrinking number of plants used for more and more purposes.

Why grow basil, it's already in the tomato's genes?

Steve
Brought to you by Soylent Red and Soylent Yellow, high energy vegetable concentrates, and new, delicious, Soylent Green!

I'm not instantly against the idea of trying such a tomato. Still, I can't help but wonder if they can't improve even further on their formula, by introducing genes for making spaghetti noodles and/or meatballs into the basil-mato. It would make the perfect complete-contained lunch. Just stick your basil-spaghe-tomeato-ballo into the microwave for three minutes, bite into it, and go "Mama Mia!" Also, don't forget some Parmegianno Reggiano genes and maybe some parsley genes too, just enough to have a little sprig of parsley sticking out of the top for visual appeal. And maybe some pine genes too, to produce a small but handy toothpick appendage on the side for picking stuck meatball pieces out of your teeth.

I tell you, it would sell like genetically-engineered hotcakes. Sign me up.

I am with doof. I hope we can HWB quarts of this luxury item. Then all I have to grow will be doof's tomatoes and spaghetti squash. ( smile)

The above smile was copy and pasted from Carolyn's post above. So you know it is a genuine smilie smile.

The real money is going to go to the first guy to develop a great pizza tomato.

I've learned over the years that people who participate in focus groups nearly always get it wrong :D

So I don't trust things like a "panel of taste testers preferring our engineered tomato over unengineered"

There's nothing inherently wrong with GM plants. I'd rather the plant have a RoundUp gene than the farmer dumping tons of RoundUp on the land. My issue with GM plants is crop drift. I don't want my seed polluted with GM pollen.

For places that want ten billion tomatoes to all taste the same (eg., McDonald's) this is probably right up their alley. My guess is its still going to taste like styrofoam, but that goes back to the first paragraph in this post...

The above smile was copy and pasted from Carolyn's post above. So you know it is a genuine smilie smile.

*****

Aw shucks dangould, said Carolyn blushing wildly, copying what someone else does and the accompanying flattery is the most sincere form of compliment a gal can get.

Thanks so much, but I bet if you tried hard you could do your own smilie and in the future would not have to cut and paste from someone else.

Carolyn, who knows of no faux smilies.(grin)

What do people here think about that? Would you try such a genetically-modified tomato?

*****

Cynthia, you posted this interesting subject and I'd like to know what your views are per the two questions you asked of others that I cut and pasted to this post.

Carolyn

"I'd rather the plant have a RoundUp gene than the farmer dumping tons of RoundUp on the land."
That just makes a shortcut so you get the Roundup right from the plant. The Roundup gene they stick in the plant doesn't make the plant just Roundup tolerant, it makes it Roundup dependant. Ask any farmer.
Check out this website, and see if you still think there is nothing wrong with GMO's
http://www.gmwatch.org/p1temp.asp?pid=1&page=1
I admit some of the articles are a bit over the top for wording, and some of the writing has a bit of a shrill tone to it, but the research they highlight gives me real cause for concern
Cheers
Grunt

Has anyone heard of the GrapeApples being sold at stores around Chicago? They are apples with grape-flavor enhancing.

Slightly off-topic, but I've heard of the artificial ripening of vegetables. I understand that many of the problems with taste is picking them too soon to ripen on their own and forcing them.

My parents remember the old taste of toms. I've been raised on the market toms simply because they couldn't get to old taste and couldn't grow their own for the longest time. Younger generations are being raised on store-bought cardboard toms that are underripe, and no longer know the difference.
I also never knew untill I found the catalogs online that toms came in other colors, could look ugly, and so forth. I think many of the problems, then, are cultural. Newer generations will never know that worlds exist outside of the marketer and advertizer-driven world. So only those types will be propagated and even those will be modified genetically.

Sorry for the rant.
Shilohyn

Posted by carolyn137 z4/5 NY (My Page) on Sun, Oct 21, 07 at 2:33:
"Here's the way it is Cynthia. I want a tomato to taste and smell like a TOMATO, old lady that I am. LOL------- "

carolyn, I have to disagree with you on this.
I want them to develop a tomato that has bacon and lettuce taste built-in.
Saves me a lot of trouble making a BLT.
:-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
dcarch

Well, Carolyn, here's a little something of what I think about the subject of enhancing tomato flavor. As we all know, there always has been and always will be "gimmicks" associated with growing tomatoes. Companies know that the public is fascinated with tomatoes, and that we'll buy something new just to try it out. Hence the "Tomato Tree," the "Topsy Turvy Tomato," the "Tomato above ground, Potato below."

Fortunately, I haven't fallen for those yet, but I grow vegetables and lots of tomatoes for a restaurant, and yes, I would probably try it out just to see if the chef would like it. I might get slammed here for admitting that, but I feel its my job to investigate interesting new items for him.

Having said that, I don't usually grow hybrids of anything. Out of the 65 varieties of tomatoes I grew out this year, I only had one hybrid, Sungold.

but I grow vegetables and lots of tomatoes for a restaurant, and yes, I would probably try it out just to see if the chef would like it. I might get slammed here for admitting that, but I feel its my job to investigate interesting new items for him.

******

No reason to get slammed b'c you're selling wholesale to the chef, and as Gypsy Rose Lee once said.....gotta have a gimmick. LOL And even if you did grow them only for youself, why not, if you have the room and they interest you.

******
Having said that, I don't usually grow hybrids of anything. Out of the 65 varieties of tomatoes I grew out this year, I only had one hybrid, Sungold.

And I grow the same only hybrid. LOL OF course since I no longer can grow the huge number of plants I once did and my plants are grown and tended to for me, that's 1 hybrid/14 plants for me.

Carolyn

Intriguing little thread.

We all Âselect traits we like  whether taste, color, size, whatever is this overboard? What makes it so offensive  because it happens in a lab and not in our backyard? Because we find smelly tomatoes offensive? What if it was the basil-spaghe-tomeato-ballo-parsl-parm-GARLIC (IÂm not sure this could still be called a tom but) tomato? Doof is right, itÂd sell like hotcakes we live in a society where itÂs rush rush rush The basil-spaghe-tomeato-ballo-pars-parm-GARLIC would be appealing to MOST people.

I have this horrible characteristic  I project with everything  if I donÂt know something I just fill it in with my own experiences (which I also think other people do  but again, thereÂs that projecting thing!). So if I donÂt know how old you are  you are Âabout my ageÂ. Anyway, I assume that the people on this forum are like ME I garden, I love my hands in the dirt (I hate dirt under my fingernails, but I love dirt under my fingernails), I can, I make jellies, I love the smell of sauce cooking, I love the condensation that forms on the windows when IÂve been boiling jars in a water bath, I love the kitchen when itÂs hot and the air is heavy with the smells of cooking tomatoes/jellies/jams, I love to look at the processed jars filled with something I germinated, grew, picked, cooked and canned (also love this stuff in the winter - no one could genetically engineer THAT, but theres that other trait - digressing). That something from nothing. Obviously genetically engineered things wouldnÂt be appealing to ME/USÂ

We are from the Velveeta, Betty Crocker, processed foods and the adage "making our lives ÂbetterÂÂ" generation. Sometimes our lives are better when itÂs not cloned cows, the genetically engineered smelly tomatoes and the notion of "making our lives better" Til then, IÂll simply enjoy the smell of the regular old toms Thanks for the minute on the soap box.

Tom-

"Anyway, I assume that the people on this forum are like MEÂ I garden, I love my hands in the dirt (I hate dirt under my fingernails, but I love dirt under my fingernails), I can, I make jellies, I love the smell of sauce cooking, I love the condensation that forms on the windows when IÂve been boiling jars in a water bath, I love the kitchen when itÂs hot and the air is heavy with the smells of cooking tomatoes/jellies/jams, I love to look at the processed jars filled with something I germinated, grew, picked, cooked and canned (also love this stuff in the winter - no one could genetically engineer THAT, but theres that other trait - digressing)."

Ah, I can see how your mind works. For you, gardening is a nurturing, epicurean, thing. I think, for me, it's more of a mad-scientist thing I have had going. I've always liked to experiment with new things, and, for me, heirloom tomatoes ARE new, because until recently, I couldn't GET some of these tomatoes at the supermarket. It's just super-cool to be the only guy on the block with black cherry tomatoes!

Experimenting with food, that goes back to my early childhood. I was one of those kids that ate bugs. Someday, I'm not sure when, somebody dared me to eat a bug, and I did, and the reaction was so fantastic, it became a beloved pastime. In elementary schools, it was a great way to impress tough kids. "Oh yeah? Well, try eating a pill bug if you're so tough!" And then I would put one in my mouth and make a big show of chewing it with my lips wide open. Or I'd let it crawl out of my mouth and go, "Oops! Almost got away that time," then stick it back in my mouth and grind away.

So your tomatoes may respond better to your nurturing side than mine do. Mine know I'm just there to torture them with chemicals and eventually eat them. Karma shines through.

Sometime around the sixth or seventh grade, the bug-eating thing outgrew its usefulness. It's no fun to do when older kids ride up on their bike and laugh at you and beg you to show their friends what a moron you are.

Still, I suppose it's only a small step from eating bugs to eating GMO products. So, I'm very excited about them, although I wouldn't expect anybody else to want to eat them. Perhaps the easiness of the GM process takes some of the appeal away. There really is still something cooler about a tomato that tastes a certain way because of years and years of natural selection by growers rather than some guy in a labcoat diddling a microscope for a couple of hours.

And I am dying, dying, dying to try the new Midnight Blue Tomatoes that Fusion is helping to grow-out...

I looked the Midnight tomato up and included the link in case anyone is interested.

Here is a link that might be useful: Thread Link

And I am dying, dying, dying to try the new Midnight Blue Tomatoes that Fusion is helping to grow-out...

******

He's not just helping to grow it out.

He received permission from the Prof to use it in his breeding program but was asked to not share seeds.

He sent me a few fruits. IMO they do not taste good at all but that fact was mentioned in several srticles about them.Again, taste is personal and subjective, but even the team that bred them says taste is something they still need to work on.

Sure I saved seeds from those large cherry sized fruits, and no, I'm not going to share them per the request that was made to Darrel. ( smile)

Carolyn, who notes they aren't blue, rather, a deep eggplant colored purple.

We may soon have absolutely no clue which releases have been developed using a GMO techniques.

OSU said they were ". . .using traditional, classical plant breeding techniques.'" to develop a purple tomato with health benefits for the consumers (including Doof). Does anyone know what happened to that variety? I thought it was released in 2006.

Steve

Does anyone know what happened to that variety? I thought it was released in 2006.

****

Nothing has happened with it, it's still a work in progress along with some other ones they are working on.

Nothing in this project at OSU has been formally released.

At another website someone had a friend who worked at OSU and got some seeds and is distributing them. I must admit that bothered me since when Fusion got them the Prof told him not to share them and to use them only in his own breeding program.

The color may be different but the goal is one that has been addressed before, and that's increasing lycopene/other flavinoids, and one such tomato variety, Health Kick, has been out there for quite a while, as well as yellow fleshed cukes and carrots.

I still maintain that sane eating will give one the nutrients they need and that breeding veggie and fruit varieties with increased flavinoids is not the answer, in my opinion.

And yes, OSU is using conventional non-GMO techniques, their germplam being from the TGRC where such purple tomato accessions have long been known and available to breeders upon application/proof of status.

Carolyn

I'm yet to have a "lycopene enhanced" tomato that tastes anywhere close to anything I'd want to either buy or eat.

"I still maintain that sane eating will give one the nutrients they need and that breeding veggie and fruit varieties with increased flavinoids is not the answer, in my opinion."

Unfortunately we live in a society where getting "everything in 1 package" is highly desirable to the people who MARKET and fund our food production.

I go to an agriculture school, myself, and while I'm surrounded by people doing their own research which they love and will contribute greatly to our region independent of external "bad" influences...there's also a good deal of people doing the "devil's work" whether they believe in the program or not because it funds and its relatively sane.

Reminds me of the post-WW2 "development" of huge monoculture harvesting machines and machine-harvestable veggie development pushed by agg. colleges and extension agencies.

The only thing that's the same is the whole process is wrapped around a message of feeding more people in the most efficient way possible. I guess a plus in the evolution of that is currently health/nutrition is on par with ease-of-harvest this go around.

Maybe "flavor enhancement" is fun for those who like to engineer new tomatoes, but in the long run, I wonder what the public will do with the results.

I think we all taste foods "differently", and that apparently goes for tomatoes, too. So while a modified tomato taste might please some, it won't please others.

For me there's enough variety in the natural taste of tomatoes to find the taste I like best. If I want to combine tomatoes with another taste, I'd rather do it myself, thanks. Of course, we're often stuck with tastes we developed in childhood, and "newer" human beings might prefer tomatoes that are flavor-enhanced with taste combinations.

Just not for me.

I do have concerns about tomato plants that are genetically engineered and their cross-over potential vis a vis other tomato plants with their complement of naturally-occuring genes. The worst case scenario is that all of the existing tomatoes could be essentially wiped out by GM tomatoes, though perhaps because tomatoes are usually self-pollinating, the danger may be less for this to happen quickly. Nevertheless, there is a risk as long as the long-term effects of the inserted genes are not known.

Genetically modifying foods of course is controversial, and it's still at the stage where conflicting claims are made. But here is one of several conclusions in one study: ( Genetic Engineering ) Threatens Our Entire Food SupplyÂInsects, birds, and wind can carry genetically altered seeds into neighboring fields and beyond. Pollen from transgenic plants can cross-pollinate with genetically natural crops and wild relatives. All crops, organic and non-organic, are vulnerable to contamination from cross-pollination. (Emberlin et al 1999)

I guess I'd rather cautiously wait and see the end-play of genetically modified crops before concluding that there are no risks involved.

I haven't read through all the posts, but agree with Carolyn's first post to this thread.
By the way, there is a new apple being released by the University of MN...the MN447...that doesn't taste like an apple. I tried it over 10 years ago, and the flavor was awesome(like a unique berry flavor?). They are looking to name it...one of the suggestions is "Tropical Punch" another is "Sugarcane". It was bred around 1940, I think. I plan on planting a tree of it this spring.
I've never tried the grape-apple...is it genetically engineered or conventionally bred?

If you do a search on Grapples...if this is the GrapeApple you're referring to, you should be able to find the answer to my above question...it surprised me!
That MN447 apple...soon to be named??? is a smallish apple with big taste. It's quite winter hardy, and if you want an apple that doesn't taste like an apple you may want to consider it, especially in the cooler zones...don't know how it would taste in hotter climates. Sorry to get off topic, but I'm stoked that they are releasing it to the public!

Seems U.MN. are going to do right what they should have done with Honeycrisp...market its pre-release better.

http://ksax.com/article/stories/S196400.shtml?cat=10230

All I know is I want one. :) I'm sure someone will sell me one around here for $3+ a lb. in a few years. heh...

I do have a nice set of soap, body lotion, hand lotion, liquid soap and a candle that smell of the fresh clean scent of tomato foliage, called Heirloom Tomato, made by the Spicer Co.

********

Carolyn,

I DO kinda miss that tomato foliage smell, but can't seem to locate the Spicer Company. Where can I get some of the Heirloom Tomato scented candles?

Bob
wi-northernlight

I do have a nice set of soap, body lotion, hand lotion, liquid soap and a candle that smell of the fresh clean scent of tomato foliage, called Heirloom Tomato, made by the Spicer Co.

********

Carolyn,

I DO kinda miss that tomato foliage smell, but can't seem to locate the Spicer Company. Where can I get some of the Heirloom Tomato scented candles?

You guys are nuts :-) (does anyone politely inquire if you've just come from the garden?), but I guess each to his own...

Now I've heard everything!

I DO kinda miss that tomato foliage smell, but can't seem to locate the Spicer Company. Where can I get some of the Heirloom Tomato scented candles?

******

You couldn't find it b'c I'd forgotten how the name was spelled. It's Spicher and Company, but when I went there this AM I didn't see the Tomato Heirloom Collection.

I clicked on anthing having to do with bath accessories and didn't find it. Maybe you'll have better luck than I did b'c I didn't take much time looking around.

I suppose one could contact them thru the website and ask if they still have it.

Carolyn

Here is a link that might be useful: Spicher and Company

I DO kinda miss that tomato foliage smell, but can't seem to locate the Spicer Company. Where can I get some of the Heirloom Tomato scented candles?

******

You couldn't find it b'c I'd forgotten how the name was spelled. It%2

Does anyone know where I can buy the MN447?

Doof-I think I KNEW you in grade school... :) I don't know how you ever drew a link from eating bugs in grade school to GM tomatoes, but somehow you did!

I don't think the GM tomatoes offends me that much but Carolyn stated they really don't taste that good... I have difficulty getting my mind around growing something that doesn't taste good. Yes it's good for you but if I was into that I'd be eating bran and being regular. Or growing Purple Calabash - they were so beautiful but tasted just plain AWFUL... UHG!

It's always nice to have the only purple tomato on the block - but if it tastes yucky... ? Or the first with the smelly tomato - but if they smell is offensive?? Yah, I have limited space - Id rather grow a lucious yummy beaut... I can jar up and eat over the winter... :)

Most GM research out there has everything to do with plant health, production/yeild, and ease of harvest. Very little stuff of interest to people growing home or even community gardens are happening in the GM realm unless you have some severe pest problems with certain crops in your area.

Most of the GM crop research money is funding machine-harvestable and disease and/or (more likely or) pesticide/insecticide resistance crops.

People are doing research and development into taste, but a lot of that funding is in the minority compared to the funding in stuff that makes it easier to grow something and ship it 3000 miles looking like a seed catalogue photo.