I revisited John Mackenzie of Sunshine since I started this thread and bought a big Gran Nain. I'm replacing the Dwarf Orinoco with it. Bought a 6 foot, 5 year old Jaboticaba from Lychee Tree Nursery. Six months and it's still in the pool area in a 15 gal pot - just merrily shedding away leaves into the pool, much to my wife's delight - yea, right! Treefrog -- remember you were into heirloom tomatoes when I visited the forum last year. John has Brandywine seedlings as well as fruit for sale right now. Also Honeybell oranges and Eureka lemon trees in various sizes. Several other citrus also available. You must check him out - especially the big cloth like bags he grows things in right on top of the ground. The neat thing is, if a hurricane hits you just tip the tree over on its' side and stake down the trunk. No loss and you don't have to dig it up. I got the idea of trying heirlooms from you, TF, and now I have a local source. Best BLT I ever had - ate two fat sandwiches the first time. Dan

May be a good time for a late May or early June get together-swap-now that the Amaryllis is finished blooming,our gardens are weeded (sort of) and we are more in control of all the green stuff.(I use the collective "we " -actually my garden never let's me get finished-it is always-like life itself-a work in progress) If anyone out there wants to get into the idea of a swap-let me know-(if you can tear yourself away from the garden catalogue and scrape the mud off your face)...might be educational-AND fun.Always nice to get free stuff!and meet nice gardeners,

hey all ... i am going to try to do this in sequence .. if i start skipping all around .... i will miss things ... so culling will not be covered for months ... seeds are all OP .... from all my streakers .. and some neat others.. like deep blue sea, Niagara falls, golden gate ... heat ... i did remember that i got my heat pad.. believe it or not.. at a beer making store.. go figure on that ... as noted.. i will use it to warm soil for germination .... i don't know as of today if i will use it beyond that ... as for ambient heat ... the house at 63 .. zowee ... you are brave .. .lol ... lets step back and think about what the hosta do outside ... 63 sounds about consistent with my late may .. the plants are expanding .... but the issue is soil temp i would think ... think about the effect of the sun on the soil ... though the temp might only be 63 .. i would bet a buck the soil could be a lot warmer on sunny days .... so if you house.. or your basement is this cold .. i think that if you want to do a good job .. you will have to think about getting the temps up ..... especially soil temp .... i doubt the leaves care what the temp is.. its the root temp that matters .... also think about when you might see volunteers in the garden .. you do not see them in early spring.. it appears they will need a higher SOIL temp to germinate.. and grow... also ... soil temperature will be an issue when the lights aren't on .... i usually run the lights all night long when the furnace kicks down to 62 ... and have my off time during the day when the furnace is on ... so the lights moderate the temperature fluctuations .... i cant really solve your problems regarding temperature for each of you .. i only offer suggestions as to what parameters you need to work with ... if it were cold in the house.. i might consider tenting the setup ... but it would be a big tent .... like a mini greenhouse in the basement .... even a plain old 100 watt light bulb inside a tent will add heat ... if you think it all out.. you don't need to spend all that much money on stuff .... but working with water and electricity means you HAVE TO BE SAFE ABOUT IT ALL .... the lights are hung with #16 hardware chain ... as noted .. and are adjustable .. they must ALWAYS be within 2 or 3 inches of the plants ... BUT IF YOU PLAN ON LEAVING FOR A FEW DAYS ... you have to adjust the lights up .. or the hosta will grow into them and scorch ... a dollar store thermometer.. is a good addition to the growing area.. so you can keep track and make adjustments ... i can tell you right now.. on a 37 degree morning.. my cement room is holding at about 65 degrees ... when i finish putting the stand all together ... i will run the lights all night .. and see what the temp is in the area .... guessing just doesn't work ... knowledge is power ... go figure on that ... lol .... and i want to start thinking about these things BEFORE I START THE SEEDS .... link to trays is below ... i built this setup to grow violets a lifetime ago ... the down side to the trays is that i can not put nursery flats across the short way ... but i only use those for sprouting ... as you will see later .... the upside is that spills are contained ... away from electricity .. since they are stacked on top of each other ... culling.. we will cover that in a few months .... the early answer is BE BRUTAL.... it is my position .. that if you focus the bifocals .. even a one inch plant has all the traits it will have in 5 years .... there will be waves.. red... streaks ... plain old greens ... must die .... maybe if it has a lot of red .. or some nice waves.. it will survive the first cull ... if i plant Niagara falls ... and i get a yellow out of it .. with a wave.. now that might be cool ... if i plant golden gate .. and i get a blue out of it .. etc ... i am looking for something unique ... the point of doing your own crosses is to have a goal in mind ... once you establish a goal ... then culling is very easy .. because .. only the ones that further the goal are kept.. the downside to growing OP seeds .... is that you have no goal .. so you think you have to save them all ... that by definition is a nightmare.. been there.. done that .. lol ... a goal ... lets say i want a manhattan that is yellow ... i would take manhattan pollen to a good yellow plant ... and try to get a corragated yellow.. so every seedling that comes from those pods that isnt yellow. .. will die ... culling is easy when you have goals ... too much white ... they are called TERMINAL WHITES .... you may get them to live in a perfect setting in your little Eden ... but they will die ... so why fool with them for months ... this is enough for now... i hope i answered all the questions above this post .... be patient ... we will try to cover everything ... we have nothing else to do all winter.. lol gotta run ... so forgive me if i cant reread the whole thing .... ken Here is a link that might be useful: tray info

I've been in Naples a number of times, but I don't cook down there. Obviously Whole Foods and Fresh Market have meat, but the prices will be well above Publix prices. Publix is my go-to place for meat, but I'll admit I eat very little of it. Remember when pink slime was an issue? I talked to the head of the meat department in our biggest Publix. He said the reason Publix has higher prices on meat than say, Winn Dixie, was that they have never used pink slime and would never use it. Publix is always willing to open packages so the consumer can buy smaller quantities. If there is ever a problem, bring it back. You don't need to explain. They will refund you money. That's why Publix dominates the grocery market in FL. Look around when you get there. I googled and there seems to be an upscale butcher shop here called .... Jimmy P's butchershop and deli. Can't attest to it, but their website is good. Just keep in mind that Naples is a way-up-scale place and anywhere you go, prices are going to be fairly high.