PIston to TXV cost effective?

15 years ago

I have been itching to go with a geothermal system but until then (a few years). This home was originally set up with an ICP air handler with 20kw heat strip with a/c and no heat pump. After my first 400.00+ electric bill in February and one in January that was close to it I found the original installer and traded the outside unit for a 13seer Tempstar heat pump for 1,200.00 installed and then added a honeywell vision pro T-stat with outdoor sensor so I don't have to manually shut off the pump in extreme cold. I have realized that my coil has a piston setup and not a TXV. I am wondering if it would be cost effective to have a TXV added or replace the coil with a TXV unit, I have also wondered if I would see so much more efficiency with a better system that I wouldn't care to go Geothermal. I can give the model and part numbers for the units if that would help. Please advise me in what you all would individually do! 1,850sq ft with 3.5t system btw.

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Comments (11)

ryanhughes
15 years ago
Is the heat pump a match for the indoor coil? The coils need to match. 13 SEER coil to 13 SEER coil or 10 SEER coil to 10 SEER coil. For heat pumps. That'd be my priority before worrying about installing a TXV, which would be a good addition. Ask the installation company if they installed a matching heat pump to the air handler, and if not, why.
countryboymo
Original Author
15 years ago
They are supposed to be the match for each other.

Outdoor unit Tempstar N2H342GKA100 13 SEER with 8.0 HSPF
Indoor Unit ICP EBP4200B2 with EHK20AKB2 Heat Strip. The Indoor unit leaves a lot to be desired as far as the noise factor but the outdoor unit is actually very quiet. My electric bill for Feb was 240 compared to a bill of close to 400.00 the year before so I am VERY happy with the heat pump instead of heat strips. I set the T-stat to shut the pump down at 20 degrees. I also rolled out R-19 insulation over the cellulose in the attic because I only had 6-7" of cellulose at time of purchase which also played a factor in the huge difference in heating cost. I am just wondering what you all would do.
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Update: Before the install, I did wind up modifying the track in the air handler for the 1-inch air filter. I used 2 pieces of steel banding, 2 inches wide, cut to length, and placed them over the manufacturer's track using a few dabs of automobile body putty (Bondo) to keep it secure. It is now a smooth track for the filter to slide on. Goodman used the track as part of the frame of the air handler so it had some crimpings in it and the filter would not easily slide in. I also trimmed away some foil faced insulation that prevented the filter from seating properly. A 20"x24" filter now fits perfectly. I am glad that I did these minor mods as I would have been fighting this monthly when I change filters. The unit was installed Friday, 6/22, after I had it for about 5 weeks waiting on the installers. It took two guys 8 hours. I fed them both breakfast and lunch (I treat my installers well). The old supply air plenum and the plenum after the air handler had to be replaced to match the new unit. The old 5/16" liquid line had to be replaced with a new 3/8" line. 3 holes were cut into the finished ceiling and 1 in the wall so that the new line could be run. I'll repair the holes when I get a chance - no big deal. The TXV sticks out about 8 inches from the air handler. Looks funky and I have to be careful not to hit it while moving things around in that area. The old outside unit had sunk about 4 inches into the ground. I filled the hole with soil that I was saving, packed it down, put a plastic condensor mounting pad on the dirt, and used 3" thick brick to elevate the outside unit (which is huge in size compared to the old 7 SEER unit; 14 SEER = more coils = larger unit). The outside unit is much more quiet as expected but the new mult-speed air handler is also a little more quiet than the old one. The fan is set on low speed and I'm not sure of the setting of the old unit as the lables on the motor had worn away after 21 years. The sheet metal in the new air handler is flimsy and the track for the air filter can be improved by Mr Goodman. The outside unit looks decent. These comments were also noted by the installers. I plan on taking the outside and inside coils to a local scrap facility and sell the copper. Maybe I can get a few $$ for a couple cases cases of my favorite beer. I can now start saving 40% on the cooling and heating part of my energy bill and use this to combat the 65% increase in electric rates in the State of Maryland. All in all, I thought that I got a good value for the money spent (only time will tell if I made the right choice with Goodman). I got a 14 SEER system with Copeland scroll compressor, thermo-expansion valve on the air handler, hard start capacitor, 15 kw heat strip kit, bypass humidifier, and 10 year parts warranty for $2477 from a local HVAC supply shop. I paid $1200 for a pro install (needed the pro install for the warranty). Total cost was $2k less than...
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Thanks Gary. I've installed a very similar system to yours, and from the same supplier, but it's the 13 SEER heat pump with variable speed air handler and the TX3N2. It's been an adventure. The condenser came grossly overcharged for 15' of line. We had to remove 1Â½ lbs of the factory charge right off the bat. Since then my readings have been all over the map. We've had really crazy weather. Hot one day and cold rain the next. On install day it was cold and rainy. The tech initially got 17 for superheat which went down to 11 before we called it a day. The first week, the system thought my house was a meat locker and was operating on some ridiculously short run times. Like running 20 minutes an hour when it was close to 100. This week the weather is back to consistent blazing hot and humid but the compressor has settled down to more reasonable cycles. Today, at 95 ambient and sweat in the pool humidity, it was running 8 minutes on and 11 minutes off to maintain 76 in the house. Subcooling was 9 and superheat 4. My TXV needs a tweak but, like you, I'm waiting a while. I'll shoot you an email through the Gardenweb network and give you a good email address if you want to compare notes and swap stories.
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ryanhughes
15 years ago
I recommend asking the installing dealer if a TXV would be acceptable to use with your system. I'm not a pro so I don't want to say this definitely, but I THINK a TXV can be added to any system to increase efficiency and performance. The TXV is essentially a metering device. I think they have to remove the piston if they do this. Ask your contractor if you can do this with your system. Also, do you know how old the indoor ICP air handler is?
countryboymo
Original Author
15 years ago
The installing dealer is a moron. The house and air handler are almost 2yrs old and the HP is one yr. When he swapped the a/c with the heat pump it was February and he just shut the valves on the a/c unit and made the connections and opened the valves on the heat pump and checked to make sure it was putting out heat and that was it, he was done. He gave me 500.00 credit for the a/c unit that I had ran for 4 months and re-sold it as new to a builder down the street. I wouldn't let him work on a window unit on a dog house.
I did have a reputable installer come back out when the temperature moderated some and test the system for air and moisture superheat and subcooling etc. I always wondered if it would be noticeable in comfort and the wallet to get rid of the piston setup and get a txv on it.
baldloonie
15 years ago
Not sure it would pay to add one now but you aren't getting 13 without it. The HP is a basic 13 SEER but looks like the air handler is an older model from where it was in the archives online.
countryboymo
Original Author
15 years ago
So would you upgrade the system totally or just save and go geothermal asap? I was thinking of possibly upgrading the coil to a TXV unit or adding a txv to the current one to get rid of the piston setup and then focus on geothermal. Now I am curious about how much savings I might see if I upgraded the system to a high efficiency HP and left the geothermal alone. Decisions decisions.. I guess I should call for some quotes.
countryboymo
Original Author
15 years ago
Who is recommended for really good units with a good defrost timing setup and all around quality equipment. Carrier Trane Rheem York and any others that come to mind and why they are top in your opinion.

Thanks!
ryanhughes
15 years ago
Mo,

In this day and age, any of the brands you've listed above should perform well if installed correctly. Most brands use similar or identical parts. All brands can break. Of course people will still have their preferences. I would not have a problem with any of the brands you've listed above. Each brand you listed has higher and lower end products, so it's hard to make a general statement.
mcmahan
15 years ago
it is not need on a 13 seer. 14 seer and higher it is need it is not going to save you an money it is used for capacit. i would put in a heat pump with a highest seer rating with the highest HSPF. the fed is going to be rasing it to 9.5 soon
andrelaplume2
15 years ago
who sells a hp with an HSPF od 9.5? I see many 9's and 9.2's...what the heck does a 9.5 cost?
mickey46834_gmail_com
12 years ago
Change out that coil with one that has a TXV already on it. Also make sure the installer uses a micron gauge when he hooks all this back up. Forget about the geo, a really good unit lasts 10 years and costs $8000 at least, plus cost of the loop. Also when a geo goes down they are typically 30% more to fix. If you get 13seer on what you have a geo will not be much of a savings per year compared to a heat pump. I can't stress enough the use of a micron gauge though, ask the installer if he even has one to use before install.

PIston to TXV cost effective?

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PIston to TXV cost effective?

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