The following document was sent to the “Rose” Group members approximately a month ago for review. Without an acknowledgement from The National Chair of ARS “Board of Directors decision, decided to post it on GW for the general publics opinion. ********************** An AEN With New Stature: Every since ARS published the first AEN in 2001, could not help but visualize its many uncapped possibilities. Yet as ARS major judging publication for five years, contents remain status quo, of limited use. Definitely not what editors had in mind when designing it. After reviewed attached document and agree the article has merit and a step in the right direction. A long over-due change that definitely should be addressed, advise ARS of this. Changes can be integrated gradually over an approximately two-year period at no cost, starting this year. Do realize a majority of the “Rose” Group are not members of ARS Board of Directors. To help move this issue forward, contact you’re District Director and / or the American Rose Society, making your views know regarding the AEN’s future. Only with your in-put and voicing options with constructive dialogue, will positive changes actually transpire, benefiting all ARS members now and in future years. Informing judges and other ARS members not aware of proposed changes, would be appreciated by everyone and help advance the AEN to the next plateau. Thank You, Ronald Schwerdt ********************** A Visionary’s View: An AEN With New Stature: To: The American Rose Society: Executive Director Officers and Board of Directors Members As a concerned member of the “American Rose Society”, (ARS) have given much thought to several of ARS growing problems, declining membership, saving and generating new money etc. Do believe ARS has several options to pursue, which can help reverse this trend. Would strongly urge, ARS Board of Directors give serious consideration in evaluating what is proposed and comprehend very substantial savings are possible. Eighty-five years ago we were in a different era, with different priories and purposes. Yet with knowledgeable changes authorized by ARS’s “Board of Directors”, we survived. We are now in a new millennium, requiring a new generation of mentality, with innovative creative solutions, keeping pace with changing times with-in ARS. New situations constantly surface, which must be promptly addressed, with immediate changes made when feasible. Granted, changes do not come lightly, or without vigorous discussions by those involved. Yet, faced with numerous problematic issues presented, it’s only a matter of time, before perception of inevitable changes proposed, do become a reality. Before venturing further into this article, let me make it absolutely clear. I believe Phil Schoor and Marily Young are doing an outstanding, unbelievable fantastic job of editing past ARS publications. In no way, has anything in this article meant to be derogatory, or misinterpreted, as contrary to that believe. Trying hard, to keep the tone of this article on a very positive level. Unfortunately, at the same time, establishing this articles as creditable and substantiate to readers circumstances that actually transpired, requires introducing many irrefutable facts and figures. Getting directly to the point, what is proposed is a convergence; eliminate the “ARS Handbook for Selecting Roses”, as we know it today. Streamlining, operations of the “Official List of Approved Exhibition Names” (AEN) with a new format, by incorporating all RIR National Ratings, etc into it. Before everyone tells me it will never work, read on, things will become cleared and ultimately may have second thoughts. ARS can still serve the Handbooks primary purpose, as well as save money. Note: nothing is mentioned about eliminating “Roses In Review” (RIR) surveys, only improvements, bringing it up to 21st century standards. There are many reasons and advantages for implementing changes. Do realize that during the 20th century, the “ARS Handbook for Selecting Roses” was indispensable, a must have publication for Judges and Exhibitors, until a latter-day “Modern Roses” (MR) was published. At the turn of the century when the first AEN were introduced, the situation changed dramatically and the Handbook lost this prestigious distinction. The Handbook of today no longer is absolute, conforms to changes in the 21st century, or an essential judging / exhibiting publication. The Handbooks editor stated many times, its new role. “The Handbook (is not for judges or experience rosarians), its primary purpose is for new rose growers, looking for roses that will perform well in their garden”. And, “It only list roses that are more popular among gardeners”. Considering the magnitude of change in a Handbooks status since 2001, ARS board might question if it’s prudent, spending considerable time and money in the 21st century, year after year on an outdated ARS publication, a majority of members benefit much from and focus on a long over-due correction to the AEN. Alternately, consider publishing a sophisticated, up to date, refined state-of-the-art reference manual, (AEN) coordinated and in tune with 21st century goals, with less work and absolutely no additional costs. Over the last four years, an average of 1171 roses (over 1/3 of roses listed) per year are deleted from a Handbook, true some roses are no longer in commerce in North America, although many sill are. Roses removed, are replaced with new and older roses without ratings, or carried by local nursery and garden centers, Lowe’s, K mart etc. Than again, many roses are listed in the Handbook for years without ratings, or designated for future RIR survey. Realistically, a rose with out a rating is of little benefit to a new rose grower, selecting varieties for his or her garden. Results of recent statistics compiled, indicate the 2006 Handbook is missing approximately (564), or 24% of roses that are still in commerce in North America with Garden Ratings, a list that expands each year. (Excluded, are roses listed in the latest RIR survey). Why are roses being deleting? Primarily making room for new rose introductions, those roses after a year, are included in future “Roses In Review” (RIR) surveys. Note: The following three paragraphs are included; giving readers a panoramic view of the direct relationship between the AEN, Handbook, RIR and “Combined Rose List” (CRL) publications, detailing why change is inevitable and long overdue. To start this complex journey of roses, follow the path a rose travels when first introduced into commerce. To keep it simple and avoid confusion, use the years 2005 and 2006, illustrating typical procedures. The CRL editor’s access a majority of information from rose catalogues and hybridizers from around the world, by the end of 2004. After the CRL, (a non-ARS publication) is published in March 2005, for (7 to 12) months is the only comprehensive publication listing new rose introductions. During this period, new rose introductions in the CRL, are considered to have temporary AEN’s, until appearing in an ARS publication. (As editor’s of the 2001 AEN point out in the publications preface, “The American Rose Society is the official leader in this area (Latest rose information) and should be responsible for meeting the needs of the Exhibitor and Judges in a direct faction, eliminating the need for supplementary publications by other authors”, referring to the CRL etc). So far, previous AEN’s have yet to achieve ARS desired goal. After the 2001 AEN was introduced, there was no longer a valid reason; roses were still considered temporary, and only undermining ARS’s designed purpose for this “Official Document”. The 2005 CRL database is the major source of new rose introductions, appearing in the 2006 Handbook published in September 2005. Yet when the Handbook is published (7) months later, will not include all new rose introductions, just those in commerce in North America. Or, include newly registered roses on IRAR web site; in commerce in North America, until the 2007 Handbook is published, a year later. Only after the 2006 AEN is published in March, (12 months later), will remaining new rose introductions in previous years 2005 CRL, appear in an ARS publication. Even though, all these new rose introductions were in commerce for (over a year). ARS made it extremely clear in the first AEN published; that “this publication is the “Official Document” for judging and when published in March, would incorporate (all) the latest varieties”. From my perspective, there’s definitely something radically perverse, in the sequence of reporting new roses. Conventional wisdom clearly indicates, from the 2005 CRL, new rose introductions ought to (first) be published in the 2005 AEN, than the 2005 Handbook. I don’t believe ARS members would be upset, if the 2005 AEN were published in April, containing all the new 2005 rose introductions listed in the 2005 CRL, (12 months earlier). Along with months of new rose registrations, not yet published in the 2005 CRL. As for the 2005 Handbook, publish it in 2005, with results of the 2004 “Roses In Review” survey. The primary purpose of the Handbook and CRL publications, listed in the “Guidelines and Rules for Judging Roses”, is justifying approved exhibition names of roses, not yet published in the AEN. Through a simple transgression of procrastination, involving publishing of ARS publications, logistics never materialized in the first AEN. Resulting in today’s AEN to some degree outdated, the day it’s published, still dependent on the Handbook and CRL for exhibition names verification. Even ARS’s next “Modern Roses” publication, must be considered timely and more or less a rose encyclopedia, a compendium of very valuable rose information, on (yesterday’s roses). The concept of the 2001 AEN was a masterpiece, a brilliant step forward on ARS part moving into the 21st century, raising its stature to new heights. Yet for it to truly succeed, and contemplate its uncapped potentials, ARS recognize and address past faults, with adjustments in future ideology. While initiation new strategy in ARS policy, will certainly dictate a sensible more systematic, efficient and less costly operation; actually believe it’s the salvation to all of ARS problems. The antidote that will, (While not solving all its problems, propel ARS in the right direction) is diversifying ARS 20th century antiquated reporting system, bringing it into 21st century reality. With the AEN database containing a majority of roses, utilize it to its full potential and list all roses. Next year, include new and roses normally considered temporary in the 2007 CRL, publish them in the 2007 AEN, along with other pertain rose information. (Excluded would be “Found” Roses, a subject purposely avoided in this article. Instead of shortsighted thinking of today, consider AEN’s future and long-term ramifications. With a new innovative state-of-the-art AEN format, besides enhancing its creditable and solve many of ARS problems, would add strategic new rose information, generate new money and interests in roses and immediately, institute cost savings measures. In essence, this revitalized “Official Document”, would be considered by Judges, Exhibitors and general public, as the ultimate ”Rose” manual. (AEN) A stand-alone, absolute judging publication, containing relevant up to-date information, (As of its date published) preciously what ARS editor’s anticipated at the AEN’s conception, without adding additional costs. The typically new 2007 state-of-the-art AEN format, would include and look similar to the sample below: Key to Typography: RIR latest National Garden Rating 7.6 Exhibition Rating (7.2) ** The Rose is a Dowager Queen Rose, introduced prior to 1867. + Varieties are new roses and a ratings has not yet been established. @ The rose is an All-American Rose Selection “AARS” winner. # The rose is an American Rose Society, Award of Excellence “AOE” winner. 7.3 (6.8) The Rose is new with an interim rating and could possibility change with further reports. The Rose is in commerce in North American. Sample: Acapulco F, yb, 30-40 petals, 1962, 5.9 America LCl, op, 43 petals, 1976, 8.3 (7.5), @, Baby Boomer Min, mp, 17-25 petals, 2002, 7.6 (7.7), #, Baltimore Belle** HSet, lp, 41+ petals, 1843, 8.5 (7.9), Caliente Min, dr, 26-40 petals, 2006, +, #, Canary Diamond HT, dy, 2003, 7.3 (6.8), Child’ Play Min, pb, 9-16 petals, 1991, 8.0 (8.0), @, #, Day Breaker F, yb, 30-35 petals, 2004, 7.9 (7.5), @, Dilly Dilly Min Fl, m, 35 petals, 1985, 7.1 (7.7) Eva Gabor HT, dp, 40 petals, 1983, 6.0 (5.8) How would past Rose information be generated? If ARS does not immediate have access to ratings of past rose surveys, my database would help. The only reason this is mentioned, in the last two RIR surveys listing of “Special Groups”, (roses without rating) some roses did have prior ratings. Over time, have researched and culled information (ratings) from all ARS Rose publications, covering a period from 1926 to 2006. To help get the ball rolling on this much-needed conversion, my database lists approximately 5200 roses with the latest RIR ratings. If approved by ARS “Board of Directors”, past statistics could be incorporated in the 2007 AEN publication, with typical information as sample format. For me to accomplish this requires an AEN database I could write too, my AEN database is similar to ARS’s, but contains volumes of (additional coded rose data), not part of this particular project. ARS loses nothing should it decides not to modernize and remain with 20th century mentality losers are ARS members. ARS also has ratings on other roses, but because of insufficient number of reports (9 not 10), and / or receiving a national RIR score of less than 6.5 as noted in the 2000 Handbook, was never included. Ironically, at one time the minimum number of reports for a National Rating was 35, 25, 20, etc., than arbitrarily set at 10, in use today. Note: As a (previous) RIR editor stated, “if a rose is good enough to be reported on, its good enough to receive a rating, regardless of the number of reports”. Actually rose ratings are less than static and very subjective to change, depending on many factors; besides the actual number of reports a rose receives. Unless ratings actually reflect all regional ratings and only by reporters in NA, you might question the irrational exuberance of existing rose ratings. Do believe, past rose ratings with 5 or more reports should be included, if for no other reason, than providing some type of balance to a flexible system, with variables that can constantly change. Incorporating past rose ratings in the AEN, will actually serve the general rose growing public to a greater degree, than if no rose rating is listed. A fact all seasoned rosarians will readily agree on, is new rose growers derives more veracity and meaningful verification from ratings of 5 to 9 ARS reporters, growing an (x) number of roses, than looking at pretty pictures, (At times fabricated) or read glowing reports in rose catalogues. Summary: Twenty-six immediate advantages of a streamlined 2007 AEN, if a new format is adopted: 1- The primary advantage is to increase ARS membership and revenue, while cutting expenses. (This alone could justify a change) 2- The ARS Handbook editor agrees, (“I would love to see a change and all ARS publications work off the same database, reducing the number of discrepancies in both publications”). Also reduces time tabulating changes, 3- With sufficient room in the existing AEN publication, a transition allows basic refinements, without adding additional pages. 4- The 2007 AEN would contain all new roses in commerce, approximately one year earlier. (The AEN’s primary purpose) 5- If properly executed, will eliminate roses having temporary AEN’s. (Approximately 1880 roses in the 2004 CRL were designated as having temporary AEN’s many still are). If the latest list of all temporary roses were included in the 2005 AEN, it would have added an additional two (2 pages, very insignificant. 6- If properly handled, would be major step forward on ARS part in achieving its ultimate goal, of meetings the needs of Judges and Exhibitors in a direct fashion. (The new AEN would not just meet, but also exceed ARS goals, with unlimited potential). 7- First to publish additional new rose introductions, registered on the IRAR web site, after the CRL’s deadline. Along with roses registered directly with ARS. 8- For the first time in 32 years, indicate in an (ARS publication) all roses in commerce in North America. 9- Would provide an up to-date, preservation of 80 years of garden and exhibition ratings of roses, appearing in RIR and Triennial Surveys, from 1926 to 2006. (At present, no such publication exists), 10- A format change, would not disrupting ARS’s RIR surveys in any fashion. But extend and allow evaluators, extra time to evaluate roses reported on. District Coordinators and RIR editors, additional time to correlate and provide a summary of previous years survey. (With the reporting deadline extended and most rose shows and major gardening on the wane, very possibility increase the number of reports as well evaluators) 11- Increase the sales of AEN publications. (With a proper PR management program in place, obtain new ARS members). 12- Could now include ratings of all roses that received 5 to 9 reports. (Previously omitted, primarily to keep past Handbooks confined to limited size publications). This is no longer necessary, since the AEN mandates that all roses must be listed. 13-Would no longer require placing costly inserts in the January’s Rose magazine, with a previous years RIR results. As for personal rose comments by the RIR editor (most are not actually seen by a new rose grower), a very in-depth review on new roses is available in the “Horizon Roses” publication, reported on by many elite reporters growing them. (With all profits from this knowledgably publication, channeled back to ARS). 14- A single database is definitely more efficient, less costly to operate and maintain. Any profitable business or successful organization expecting to survive in these times, would never consider maintain two separate databases with repetition of information. (Except Enron Corp.) 15- Eliminate the entire expense of publishing the Handbook, as we know it today. 16- Help alleviate ARS cash flow problem. Allocating money not spent on Handbooks and inserts of RIR results, placed in a reserve fund, available to help pay monthly printing costs of The “Rose” magazine, assuring ARS members of receiving it on a timely basis. 17- Permanently record missing roses lost over the years. (Roses NIC are deleted yearly, from the CRL publication). 18- Simply glancing in the AEN, would immediately pin point roses to consider for future RIR surveys. (There are thousand of roses that have never been in a RIR survey). Would help to formulate a systematic system, in the actual selection of roses for RIR surveys. 19- Would contain an approximate or a missing petal count of roses, when possible. (Many exhibitors use a roses petal count, as a basic for pruning for rose shows). 20- If the 2007 AEN is edited with its future and primary purpose in mind, would be the (first) judging publication in ARS history, not requiring ARS Judges to carry the (Handbook, MR’s and CRL) publications, when judging. (While the CRL is an extremely important publication all judges should have, all the valuable information it contains, is required in a typical rose show). 21-Would resolve one of RIR biggest problems; feedback of the latest RIR results to the people it is primarily intended to help. It would show results of a previous years RIR survey six (6) months earlier, helping new rose growers select their spring roses. (Not all rosarians using the Handbook are ARS member and receive the “Rose” magazine). 22- Rose Nurseries would definitely appreciate the fact the general rose buying public, are being made aware, many older roses they sell have respectable Garden Ratings. (Helping rose nurseries sell more roses). 23- Can now be considered a reliable reference manual at garden centers selling roses, the general public can use in selecting their Spring roses. (Helping the garden center sell more roses). Typical to other garden manuals, suppliers normally have on display. 24- A publication every library can and should purchase, as a reference manual to have on their shelve. (A project for ARS’s PR person to pursue) 25- The AEN’s would no longer be limited to Judges, but contain valuable information of interest to the general public. (Could eventually include fragrance and a plants size as in some previous years). Ever notice the first thing a person does when picking up a rose is to smell it. Would help rosarians determine the spacing required when planting a new rose bush. 26- With a new AEN format in place, in conjunction with monthly Supplement “Rose” Lists posted on the “Rosarian Corner” and “Garden Web” web-sites and “Rose” Group members. Judges, exhibitors and general public will have at their disposal; the latest most up to-date, accurate rose information ARS publishes. (Imperative, ARS judges have this latest information when judging). Should ARS find it necessary to provide a current list of roses in commerce in North America for members, educational or PR purposes. ARS regress to past “Buyers Guides” format. On a single sheet of 8-1/2”x 11” paper printed on two sides, easily listed 900 roses. All existing 2,350 roses in the 2006 handbook, with Garden Ratings could be printed on three (3) sheets of paper with room to spare, cost approximately 30 cents. (Typical to rose societies newsletters). Practicing good PR at this point could definitely increase ARS membership, at minimal cost. ARS might give serious thought to investing $700.00 and send free copies to 1000 people in (2007), that existing ARS members consider potential ARS members. Or, generate lists from people telephoning ARS for rose information. By giving ARS their address, will receive a free copy of rated roses. Explaining each year, new roses and ratings are added. To be sure, lists would include an ARS membership application with a reduced introduction rate, along with other goodies ARS offers. Monitor results, to ascertain future feasible. Direct personal communication, is a key to keeping and recruiting new ARS members. Another thought just came to mind, as the Handbooks editor advocates, if “it only lists roses that are more popular among gardeners”, (So be it). Use this criterion as a basis, listing only (x) number of the highest rated Garden Roses, (2000-2500) each year in commerce in North America. Not since 1975, have Handbooks claimed to contain (all) roses in commerce in North America. This new three (3) page publication could be called, “ARS 2007 List of Most Popular Garden Roses”. Just one of many name changes taken place over past years. A second area ARS definitely can realize a substantial savings; is by eliminating the “Triennial Surveys”. Every three years, ARS conducts an expensive survey, taking much time and money to produce. Is it actually worth the time and money being spent, money that could be utilized more effectively on other ARS projects? After an in-depth review of results of the 2005 “Triennial Survey”, you may ultimately agree, end results do not justify time or expense of future surveys. Judge for yourself, if “Triennial Surveys” are feasible to continue? To be extremely fair, an assured the 2005 survey was not an isolated incident, ran the numbers on several previous “Triennial Surveys”, statistics showed very typical patterns. (The primary purpose of a “Triennial Survey is only to see if previous Garden ratings of roses, had changed much). Of the 1,948 roses in the 2005 Triennial Survey, 37 are no longer in commerce and were eliminated, leaving 1,911 with established Garden Ratings. Of a total of 1,873 roses, 98% resulted in no change, or a change of less than ½ of 1 %, an insignificant change in roses Garden Ratings. The remaining 40, 26 had an increase of ½ of 1%, a slight change. The remaining 14 roses in the survey, or .00073% definitely would make a difference on a roses Garden Rating. ARS Board of Directors might consider surveys costs over past years and if such very minimal changes (14) actually substantiate the cost, or realistically has an impact on new rose growers, looking for a rose that will perform well in their garden? While Roses have ratings, the majority are not actually available at local outlets, where most new rose growers purchase roses. 17 ACTUAL 1948 20 37 NO LONGER IN COMMERCE (NIC) 37 TOTAL 1911 NO CHANGES 795 42 % UP 0.5= 26 1 % UP 0.1 & DOWN 0.1 423 + 154= 577 30 % UP 0.6= 9 .0047 UP 0.2 & DOWN 0.2 275 + 21= 296 15% UP 0.7= 3 .0015 UP 0.3 & DOWN 0.3 136 + 3= 139 7 % UP 0.8= 1 .0005 UP 0.4 & DOWN 0.4 65 + 1= 66 3% UP 0.9= 1 .0005 SURVEY TOTAL 1873 98% 40 -2% In Conclusion: For ARS’s future and good of the American Rose Society, hope advantageous and beneficial ideas presented, do not get lost in negative controversy. The National Chair of ARS “Board of Directors” takes the initiative and addresses proposals as part of the agenda, at the 2006 Spring Board of Directors meeting. With voting taking place at the 2006 National Fall Convention. Allowing board members, sufficient time to review proposals with district constituencies. Realizing it is this administrations last board meeting to vote, believe issues are important enough, that this board act on. Would be nice to remember, this ARS board implemented big cost saving measures, as well as talking about them. It defies logic, ARS board would be insensitive to what is proposed, having everything to gain and absolutely nothing to lose, except a very sophisticated up-dated state-of-the-art AEN, money, and new members. Rather than remain status quo, ARS attempt a change, which it may actually like. Will leave you with these final thoughts to meditate on. (Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow). ARS can do better tomorrow, only if it begins today. 3-1-06 Would be greatly appreciated, if this ARS National Chair, please keep me advised on what was decided. Thank You, Ronald Schwerdt

I found the tax shelter in this posting when searching for a gift for my brother. He is a tax preparer and has everything. So I just had to share what I did for him. I took one of those woodcraft houses from Walmart- removed the two screws from the base. I cut a 1" block of wood that fit into the bottom of the house. I glued this block onto the base thus allowing the top of the house to be easily lifted off the base. I cut a 1/2" groove in the center of the block with the table saw so I could set a card of thumb tacks into it. This was hidden in the house until the top was lifted off. I wrote a poem for this & read it to him while my daughter did a Vanna White presentation of the house. Everyone got a good laugh out of this and I finally did a complete craft project! It's been a while. Hope you have as much fun with this as we did. Here's the poem: I drew your name for Christmas It's an honor, don't you know To get my brothers name for Christmas Ah! ashopping I will go. But then I started frettin After searching high and low Whatever will I get 'im (Twas wrong to worry so!) I went into an office shop Maybe something for your desk? I talked to the clerk a lot She tried to aid me in my quest. He could use a tax shelter Is what the lady said It seemed a bit off-kelter But there was nothing left instead. So here's your little shelter All painted so very nice The foundation has been mended The roofs' been polished thrice. The flowers are all blooming In the big pot by the door The bumblebees are buzzing And there's no sawdust on the floor. It seems to be the perfect place I do agree she's right It sure beats a plain old case And your tacks! They're finally safe at night!

No problem and I appreciate you being ok with me bumping into your exchange here- I am following this with alot of interest. Just quickly, on my issue, the installer came back out. At first he said this was normal as shared earlier and had to be told (from a non-expert) that this was not normal at all. It seems that he made some type of wiring adjustments (unknown since my wife cant follow any of this when she was watching and asking) and then adjusted settings within the setup of the Edge Thermidisstat. We are currently running oil heated-water baseboard as the backup and then the Performance series HP system (EER 12.5, SEER 15.5 and HSPF 9) cant find the AHRI# handy. Temps have been consistently at between 28 and 34 degrees here in Viginia for the last 5-7 days. We are having to manually switch from HP to the oil heat system for right now since I dont want this installer messing with anyting else to connect a relay that allows both to be working from the one thermostat. I will do that later (hence reason for following this discussion closely) I am tracking kW useage off the meter. Here's what I am seeing: Set the HP Edge at 68 degrees and it holds house temp steady wihtout having to use AUX at all. Set the oil heat-boiler at 66 setpoint(manual) It seems that only infrequently will the boiler kick on to augment the HP (running simul right now) Energy useage has been between 3.12 and 3.77 kW per hour across last 5 days (taken in 24 hr periods). VaPOwer is at about .06 cents per kW right now I think, so I'm looking at what 744 hours per month at avg 3.44 kW (.20 cents) per hour= $153.00/month. This is for a brick ranch, 1820 sq ft house

* Posted by: karenm 7 ) on Wed, Nov 13, 02 at 12:52 Well, I'm posting again. I had the original post 4mts ago. Have managed a few more mistakes in this time. Being a new gardener, I am always looking for free plants so one friend (maybe she really doesn't like me) gave me, gooseneck loosestrife, wild violets, periwinkle, and several mints. (ALL of these are considered VERY INVASIVE!) I planted the gooseneck in with my roses to cover the Roses leggy bottoms. Next spring I will begin the process of elimination. Already pulled up all the mints. I like the violets so far, but they have not invaded anywhere I don?t want them to be. Also, went to a plant sale with same friend and bought several plants with Latin names and metric measurements. (I haven't gotten that far in my education.) Did not have a clue what most of them were, but they were at a good price. Anyway, I bought some aster. I knew what that was. Yea, right. It grew to be about 5-feet tall and 3-4 feet wide. I had planted it in the front of the bed. It looked like Godzilla stepping all over my other sweet and dainty plants. To make matters worse, I too tried to move this huge monstrosity in 100-degree heat. Needless to say it did not live. Would loved to have seen it in bloom. For that matter, I have quite a few plants I have never seen bloom because I move them so much. Gotta get that perfect placement ya know. I'm looking forward to spring to see what new adventures are awaiting me! * Posted by: wavesmom sf calif (My Page) on Wed, Nov 13, 02 at 14:53 I have been gardening for years, and composting for 3. My worst mistake was when I dug up the crabgrass, and wanting to be the perfect composter, threw the crabgrass in the compost. My pile doesn't get hot enough to kill seeds. Guess what I have EVERYWHERE in my yard. Note to self: if you don't want the plant everywhere in the yard, don't compost it. I had the same experience (same year) with tomatoes. I could have fed the masses with the number of tomato plants that came up. * Posted by: Nelz z5b/6 NW PA (My Page) on Wed, Nov 13, 02 at 22:57 I had the worst one until this afternoon. 1 - A few years back I started all my cukes and squash (summer and winter) and melons in peat pots inside to get a few week head start when they hit the ground. I had the following number of varieties; 2 cukes, 4 winter squash, 3 summer squash, 3 watermelon, 2 canteloupes. I had several plants of each type. More than I needed, but you know, always plant a few extra in case all do not germinate. Everything germ'd. After 10 days I sorted everything out, what I wanted, and what I'd toss. My mother in law plants everything, and even though her garden was in, she said she'd take the rejects. I gave the flat explaining it was a lot of cukes and a few squash and 1 watermelon. Wrong, as in wrong flat. I forget which was which. I had cukes out the ear, and mom was nice enough to share the harvest. 2-Use only clean straw! I think I got oat straw, with all the oats attached. At $1 a bale I got excited and loaded up the truck. I put my beds to sleep for the winter, planted my garlic, and mulched HEAVILY with the straw. Every bed is growing lots of green blades through the straw. So, here I am weeding in November. I'm limiting my work to the garlic beds, the rest will be a 'covercrop' that I'll hoe in next spring. At least they pull up easy. PS - This is an awesome thread, and I didn't see many mistakes, just learning experiences!! * Posted by: bdot z7 NC (My Page) on Wed, Feb 26, 03 at 13:25 1st, what is a "DH"? Every time I see that I think designated hitter and it confuses me. :) My first mistake was when I moved into my house 2 years ago. The back yard was small but was over grown with weeds and vines and stuff. I loved it cause it's a good animal habitat. The wild rose bush (it's the kind that's invasive that people hate but I've come to love) is about 10 ft wide, 15 ft long and about 7 ft tall. Anyways, I decided I would clear out some of the wild grape and also honeysuckle from the trees especially all the dogwoods. Well I'm happily pulling things out and since it's the winter (no leaves on vines) I didn't think until I started itching. Let's just say I used to get poison ivy by just being in the same town as it is in. It hit the blood stream and I had it for 3 straight months. Near the end I had a swollen shut eye and had to get medicine. Went to Immediate Care (since I don't have a doctor since that requires setting up an appointment 3 months in advance) and they gave me allergy medicine. Luckily mom works for a doctor and got me some good pills and I haven't had poison ivy since even though I work next to it when feeding the tigers. My other mistake was in a way related. I had read that jewelweed helps keep you from getting poison ivy. It did wonders back when I did get it and would rub it on the spot. Well anyone that knows about jewelweed knows it has the water-resistant leaves. Well I had made a flowerbed beside my house. I couldn't get much to grow last year in the severe drought. Well these 2 plants came up that looks just like jewelweed leaves. i was so happy that I continually watered them. They got up to 1ft.. then 5 ft... then 10 ft.. ok, somethings wrong. Either I have a very happy jewelweed plant or that's not what it is. I did some investigating on the web. I found out I had lambs quarter. HA HA HA! I hate killing plants so I didn't want to take it down but then I knew the thing would reseed one day and that would be a mess. Luckily after it was up to about 13-14ft, we had a heavy rain and wind. Knocked both plants sideways into the yard. Didn't kill them but they were in the way so I removed them. * Posted by: Storey z8b TX (My Page) on Wed, Feb 26, 03 at 17:58 One of my most recent was allowing my friend to walk through my pepper patch. He tried a few peppers and asked what they were after tasting. Before I could stop him, he tried a habanero... I never knew anyone could run to a hose that fast or drink that much water at one time :o) Fortunately, he survived, but now he asks about the plants BEFORE he tries them. Stephen * Posted by: Peach_Fuzz 4 (My Page) on Wed, Feb 26, 03 at 18:36 Bdot, DH is "Dear Husband" in our land of abbreviated computer lingo. (although I'm going to think "designated hitter" now!) * Posted by: valeriePA z6 PA (My Page) on Thu, Feb 27, 03 at 6:42 I repeat it every year-too many seedlings and plants and not enough prepared soil. The seedlings or plants end up dying waiting for me to dig up more of the lawn. I think I'll give lasagna gardening a try this year. * Posted by: MaryMarg Zone9/San Jose (My Page) on Thu, Feb 27, 03 at 15:27 We moved into our first home four years ago, and had a gorgeous bougainvillia draping over the tops of the french doors to our bedroom. New to gardening, my husband and I couldn't figure why it "died" several months after moving in. My husband, escaping with multiple minor cuts and several colorful expletives, managed to remove it. We found out several weeks later (after it had been taken away by the garbage man) that the beautiful climber was merely dormant. Such remorse! * Posted by: somara ) on Fri, Feb 28, 03 at 15:10 I'm now starting my second year gardening and I have a feeling that I'll be a beginner for another 5-10 years. Here are last year's mistakes: 1. Plant swaps are great and the people are friendly; however, people are NOT giving you plants out of generosity... they just don't want to go home with what they brought. I finally understood this during the fall swap when I couldn't get rid of the last of my plants without having to take something from someone else. So I went home with another truckload and needless to say, most of it didn't make it in the ground again. So I'm only attending one swap a year now. 2. I found a small patch of Bermuda grass in my yard last spring. I thought I'd get around to it later. Nope. Bermuda grass will take over your entire yard the moment you turn your back on it. This year I'm breaking out the flame thrower. 3. Find out what the dimensions of the full grown plant is before you put it in the ground. That cute little wild current tomato that wouldn't grow for two months, eventually hit a growing spurt and took over the entire bed (4'x6'). It was STILL producing tomatoes through December. 4. The biggest mistake, and probably the one I will continue to make every year for my entire life, is trying to do too much with my yard. This year I promised my sweetie that I'd only work on the area around the back patio... but I've already drawn out plans for under the trees, the front bed, and pretty much the entire property. But ya' know something? As long as I'm not repeating my mistakes year after year (with the exception of #4), then I must be learning... * Posted by: mindi1248 z9 FL (My Page) on Mon, Mar 3, 03 at 22:47 This one just happened to me today... I bought some veggie and herb seeds about a week ago (even though I've no idea where to put them) and I decided yesterday that I would get them started in some dixie cups. Labeled and stuck the dirt in the cups, and poked a hole in the bottom to drain, and planted the seeds. I left them outside... This morning it started pouring rain. Turns out that the little holes in the cups couldn't keep up with the flood and when I went outside all the cups were overflowing and soggy and the seeds were floating or on the ground..lol.. I replanted what I could and brought them on the porch..we'll see if they germinate! :) * Posted by: mindi1248 z9 FL (My Page) on Tue, Mar 4, 03 at 14:33 Mistake Number Two: Not using waterproof ink on those dixie cups! I replanted in some real seedling cups today, but now I have no idea what's what! Guess I'll have a surprise when they grow..if they do..lol :) * Posted by: ticksmom419 z7 NC (My Page) on Fri, Mar 7, 03 at 10:30 Somara, in response to your bermudagrass mistake, it only spreads all over your lawn if you don't want it to. I'm tired of fiddling with my sad fescue and WANT the bermudagrass to take over. How many years will it take, do you suppose? Murphy's Law strikes again. * Posted by: ernie50 z7ga (My Page) on Sun, Mar 9, 03 at 7:20 I've been gardening for some years, however still learning. Tried to grow Joe Pye last year from seed, but never came up so couldn't identify seedling. Finally saw a few tiny seedlings & nursed along for 3 months. Was poking around outside & saw same thing growing wild outside. It was a weed!Had somehow got in my seed flat! * Posted by: timtijones z5 Milwaukee WI (My Page) on Sun, Mar 9, 03 at 11:36 Last year was my first year gardening in my first house, so the mistakes were many and frequent. Some of the most important lessons I learned were ... 1. No matter how warm April may be, there's a reason people around here (Milwaukee, WI, zone 5) say don't plant until after Memorial Day. We managed to get some make-shift cold frames around plants both in the beds and not-yet-planted, but we still lost almost a third of the annuals and perennials during a May cold snap. 2. Try to have at least SOME idea where you're going to put that beautiful plant you just saw at the nursery. Lost a few plants that stayed in the pot way too long after purchasing because we didn't have beds ready. 3. EVERYTHING takes at least twice as long to do as you think it will -- digging beds, amending or replacing soil (we have lots of clay, so sometimes we just empty out a big area and refill with garden soil), fertilizing, weeding, pruning (actually, that takes 4 times as long!!). One of these days I'll try to leave time to actually sit out in the yard and ENJOY my gardens, but it didn't happen last year. Maybe if I schedule the time in my DayMinder... 4. Just because it's the north side of the house and shaded in April doesn't mean it's a shade garden. I planted a dozen astilbe and 6 goatsbeard (aruncus) in the front of the house, which is on the north side. The astilbe did OK, but the flowers dried up and turned brown in less than a week, and the poor goatsbeard probably didn't survive ... they grew less than an inch last year from the planting size. That bed gets FULL SUN from May to August! So I'm moving everything that survives the winter to the west side of the house under the shade of the neighbor's black walnut tree. 5. Which brings up the last one ... black walnuts' roots kill most plants planted anywhere near their canopy. Fortunately, astilbe is one of the plants that can survive the black walnut toxins, along with ferns and hostas. Guess what I'll be planting in the west side beds this year!! * Posted by: veilchen z5 S. Maine (My Page) on Sun, Mar 9, 03 at 11:56 One of many: When removing the pachysandra from the front of the house to put in a new shade garden, I discovered what was obviously a small shoot of a rose. My house was built in 1930, so I was excited to have found what may have been an old climbing rose that survived neglected all these years (in the shade!). Just think how hardy it must be! I carefully dug it out, getting all of the long tap root. I pampered it for a few days in a container, keeping it moist. Then I transplanted it around a metal obelisk trellis in a sunny spot in my garden. I gave it lots of compost and water. By the end of the summer, I trained it up the obelisk and it was thriving. I was very proud of my horticultural accomplishment of saving an antique rose and couldn't wait til next year so I could see the blooms. Well, it bloomed last summer. Very plain, single white small blossoms. Totally unexceptional. Japanese beetle magnet as well. What I had transplanted and nurtured was an old root stock of a wild rose. I yanked it out at the end of summer, and it had really anchored itself in. I hope I got it all. * Posted by: John_Blutarsky (My Page) on Sun, Mar 9, 03 at 14:44 Trying to drive 400 miles with a bunch of houseplants in the back of my car. They were exposed to too much sunlight and at the end of the journey their leaves had turned black! Fortunately, none of them died, just took a year to get back to their old selves! Next time, I'll keep them covered up better. * Posted by: clg1 z7 AR (My Page) on Sun, Mar 9, 03 at 20:46 Thanks so much for this thread. I truly thought I was the ONLY one who had ever cultivated, nurtured and sang to rogue blades of grass mistakenly thinking they were long-awaited flower seedlings. * Posted by: teka2rjleffel z10FL (My Page) on Tue, Mar 11, 03 at 15:27 I love this post. I'm not new to gardening. I have been doing it for over 20 years. But when we moved to Florida from New York I made a big boo boo. The house and lawn had been badly neglected. So my husband (who hasn't a gardening clue) and I started pulling up the weeds in the lawn. After we were well into the project our new neighbor came over and asked what we were doing pulling up all of the St. Augustine grass (which looks like a weed but is the only thing that will grow here.) * Posted by: somara z8 - Austin, TX (My Page) on Thu, Mar 13, 03 at 16:56 My Mom and I were talking about what we were going to plant this spring and that brought up the subject of caladium bulbs... this was a BIG mistake from last year so I thought I'd mention it: Do NOT plant the bulbs upside down. Less than half of my caladiums made it. Unfortunately since both ends looked so much alike - this is easy to do. Someone told me later that the easiest way to avoid the same mistake is to plant the bulbs sideways. That way the plant has a better chance of breaking ground before it runs out of steam. * Posted by: Pickwick z5 (My Page) on Thu, Mar 13, 03 at 18:14 The grounds superintendent of a large estate where I worked in the days of my youth, assigned me to plant grass seed in a freshly prepared area. He conveyed to me where I might locate this seed. Evidently, I seemed to have grabbed the wrong bag. It was thistle birdseed........... * Posted by: LesLazz z17CA (My Page) on Sun, Mar 16, 03 at 5:26 Great laughs on this page, literally laughing and holding my side on a couple of them! My story is a bit different but true. Not necessarily, MY stupidest mistake but alas it happened any way. We move in 3 years ago to this house with the previous owner promising that the garden right outside my family room wall (all windows) was a tea garden, that she had worked very hard on. It being February when we bought, she said I couldn't tell until the bulbs came up. So I waited and waited and WAITED... all we had the first year were big weeds. Convincing myself I may had neglected the bulbs, I went out the next January and cleaned all the weeds and religiously watered, once again waiting for the tea garden, which never arrived. I decided to make it a rose and bulb garden, dug all the soil up and proceeded to plant three rose bushes and several different kinds of bulbs in a teagarden type pattern. Well, my hubby came out in January of last year and had a packet of wildflower seeds and decided to spread them throughout my garden (while I was cursing him behind his back, mind you). Fast forward, lots of wildflowers, bulbs grew but no flowers-because the wildflowers took all of the sun/nitrogen/whatever out of the soil (roses seemed to be ok tho). I told him I am going out to take everything out except my bulbs and roses. He asked if I would leave the poppies. I told him I will try (but between you and I , I know what a poppy looks like as opposed to a weed/wildflower) and I guarantee my bulbs will bloom next year! * Posted by: Vroomp z7Ga (My Page) on Sun, Mar 16, 03 at 10:34 What I have learned from my Mistakes: Tradescantia (Spider Wort) blooms in afternoon sun, but the leaves will fry and make the plant look like it's dying. It blooms three times longer in afternoon shade. Foxgloves and Gladiolas need to be in a protected area from wind. Otherwise the become groundcover quickly. Never put an Amaryllis in a pot whose base is larger than the neck. They don't come out without breaking the pot. Inkberry Bushes do not grow on the North side of your home. I lost 6 seven gallon plants. Morning Glories produce a lot of seeds. And they ALL germinate............. For years to come !! Stonecrop Sedums spread like mad under cover of winter leaves. Which happens to be the best way to multiply your Blackeyed Susans too! A Wild Cherry is the wrong tree to leave for shading your patio. In Spring it drops flowers(too tiny to be pretty)then it drops little black fruit(which stains).The insects that thrive in them can dump around 1 pound of poop per night. (that's how much fell on the tarp over the food table last party). Glad I had the forethought to put it up !!! Then in the Fall the twigs and leaves seem to never end. * Posted by: ladykemma katy, texas (My Page) on Tue, Mar 18, 03 at 22:34 pulling up the foxglove seedlings because i thought they were weeds..... * Posted by: Lynn9 z9,Northern Ca. (My Page) on Thu, Mar 20, 03 at 23:25 HA! I think the "pet" poison oak is the funniest one. My mistake this year was building a nice frame for a raised box-bed, filling it in & then realizing it is in the wrong spot! My second mistake was buying all that "organic" compost/potting soil that was on sale & *then* reading the ingredients. It's organic with a "wetting agent" added. It carries a warning "as in all soil, gloves should be worn before handling this product". I don't dare use the stuff & lost the receipt. * Posted by: Adina Zone 7, Atl GA (My Page) on Fri, Mar 21, 03 at 15:55 This wasn't a big mistake, but only because I'm a biological fluke. Several years ago, back when I lived in an apartment that didn't even have enough light for houseplants, I "adopted" the vacant lot next to my father's house and started cleaning it up a bit and planting some excesses from his garden. One day he came out while I was pulling weeds, pointed to the plant in my bare hand, and asked if I realized it was poison ivy. I didn't. My hands turned pinkish and itched a little for an hour or so later. I had never learned to identify poison ivy because I've never reacted to it. Still don't. Ivy--regular English Ivy--makes me itch and break out in red blotches, however. Go figure. * Posted by: GaiaChild N.Alberta,Can. (My Page) on Sun, Mar 23, 03 at 2:16 I agree that this is a great thread! I can relate to some of these mistakes and I'll try to learn from the rest :o) I've had small veggie gardens and have experience with indoor plants but last year was my first real flower/ornamental gardening attempt. This year I've planned even more so I'm glad I can come here for some good tips. TIA *thanks in advance* * Posted by: Holedigger z10 SO-CAL (My Page) on Tue, Mar 25, 03 at 15:38 All time dumbest.....designed a complete backyard courtyard with stamped concrete patios, flagstone walks, rip-rap planting beds, lighting, stucco walls, the works. Had it all installed, planted it and realized I had no way of getting irrigation to the planters, or onto the groundcover between the flagstone. Duh.I learned all about native plants and xeriscaping after trying to handwater (twice a day) the first summer. Everything fried. * Posted by: jslatch z8 Austin, TX (My Page) on Wed, Mar 26, 03 at 17:52 Yeah, ok... as a new gardener with a new house, I should probably have researched tulips before putting a delicate 12 bulbs in my 10'x6' bed. Having lived in Washington DC, where every spring the city is covered in gorgeous, prolific tulips, I had assumed that they would bloom and bloom and be this beautiful carpet of red tulips in the middle of my yard. Little did I know that in DC, there are countless men paid by the city to run around in the pre-dawn hours transplanting fully grown tulips for the spring tourists. Needless to say, I got a week and a half of pretty blooms, and then nothing. Ugly green flowerless stalks. What is that about? Who knew that tulips only bloom once and don't multiply? I guess everyone but me. So then I tried to repair my sad-looking bed with eight expensive ranunculus transplants, which looked great for a week. Now they are fading fast, leaving me once again with tired stalks. Sigh. I have now optimistically sprinkled the entire thing with cosmos seeds. Too bad they won't be up in time for my mother's visit... I was so excited to show off my green thumb. I have a feeling I will have many more lessons coming to me... * Posted by: Dic_Tamnus z5b OH (My Page) on Thu, Mar 27, 03 at 10:12 I had a "Three Stooges" moment while walking out to the garden. The side door of my house had a metal awning (sharp edges) that hung exactly 6' above ground level. As I (height 6'1") walked toward it I was verrrry carefully trying to take a sip from a cup of scalding hot coffee. In mid-slurp my scalp met the metal, raking across my skull like a hoe raking across concrete. From pain and surprise, I gasped, inhaling the burning brew. It sounded something like "Scrrrapeaacghgarglekoffplttttt!" So I spent the next ten seconds staggering, bent at the waist, one hand on top of my head and the other wiping coffee that was still running from my nose. My only regret is that I didn't catch the whole thing on video. * Posted by: Tannatonk z3 MT (My Page) on Thu, Mar 27, 03 at 15:08 This is a great thread! I don't have a tale to tell on myself but would like to make a suggestion. Seems like a lot of you have in the past purchased too many plants at one time without having given thought to how or where you were going to put them. The next project on your "honey-do" list should be to build a nursery bed. It could be as big or small as you like but a nice size is 4' x 8' with 6-12" sidewalls. Fill the frame with loose compost and soil. Now you have a place to store all those wonderful finds that you just can't pass up until you know the perfect spot for it. * Posted by: carolynkelsea San Jose (My Page) on Fri, Mar 28, 03 at 12:33 Wow this thread has been around since last year and it keeps getting funnier! I already posted once (transplanting large shrubs in a heat wave) but in my second year of gardening I've made an even sillier mistake... When we moved in I discovered two unidentified bushes hidden beneath some overgrown daisy clumps... For whatever reason I decided they were azaleas and I've been babying them for a year, giving them acid fertilizer, doing everything I could to make them happy... Well just the other day they finally bloomed, and oops, they're not azaleas, they're hawthorn bushes, which is a very common, tough shrub around here, they use it in parking lots because you just can't kill it... After a year of babying these things I feel a little let down! (The pink flowers are pretty though!) *Posted by Cactus_joe 7b (My Page) on Sun, Dec 12, 04 at 1:50 Stupid things that I learned while gardening this year: 1. If you plant a canna tuber right at the bottom of the container, and place it upside down, the canes will emerge through the drainage holes. A real talking point in the garden (?Did I hear words like "stupid thing to do", "how silly", "what was he thinking of", ""senilility", etc being whispered?). Doesn't do much for esthetics either. 2. If you pull a long cane of a prickly rose down too far, and let go, it will neatly grab hold of you pants and tee-shirt, and give you a painful surprise. 3. If you get real mad at how much rocks you have to excavate out of your lousy subsoil before you can plant any thing, make sure your shovel is equipped with shock absorbers before you ram it hard into the ground in frustration. Otherwise, the shock wave generated when you hit that big rock (the one which is always lying waiting for you to do just such a stupid act) will give your bones a jangle that you will never forget. 4. If you go on vacation and have the neighbour tend your yard while you are away, don't forget to tell her not to dead head the roses if you are into hybridising. 5. Never even think of pulling the stun of stepping smartly on the head of the garden rack to get it's handle to flip up - unless you happened to be wearing a suit of armour. * Posted by: NGraham z6 KY (My Page) on Sun, Dec 12, 04 at 8:08 I can sympathize. I've experienced much the same things. Once when my husband had back surgery, I didn't ask, but my neighbor kindly mowed my yard for me. Took out a white lilac a friend had just given me, it did come back but sulked for a long time. Several times I coulda kicked myself when I nurture seedlings I have carefully grown & cared for, plant them out, then carelessly pull them out when weeding. * Posted by: FlowrPowr 5 OH (My Page) on Sun, Dec 12, 04 at 22:10 Joe, the one about the rake really made me chuckle. We were planting some end of season roses about a month ago, and I did that very same thing. It was not one of my more graceful moves. Let me tell you, a rake upside the head, can really hurt. I saw stars for a couple of seconds. Of course, my hubby thought it was funny. I guess one thing that I did that was kind of stupid was loose one of those little hand held garden cultivators. It was an older tool, and just kind of blended in with the soil. I sat it down, and when I went to pick it up, I couldn't find it. My hubby found it when we were doing the fall cleenup. I think I am going to paint the handle day-glo orange, so it doesn't get lost in the perennial jungle again! * Posted by: EGO45 6bCT (My Page) on Mon, Dec 13, 04 at 0:52