Members in NJ - Need a GC

14 years ago

We had 4 GC's come by to take a look at our kitchen. One of them did not sound confident about how he was going to do the job, another one came out exhorbitant, the third one says he can work with us on whatever we need, he can source material or we can and then he can charge labor (seems best for now) and the fourth one, we are still waiting on a quote.

With the advise from the GW members here, we need a new GC to come in and take a look at the project with new prespective. Can you recommened any that you have worked with?

Thanks a lot in advance!

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Comments (6)

scoutcat
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Where in NJ are you? I have a wonderful GC, but when he first came he advised that to do the job right we would need to start with an architect. We did that and we're now working with the GC, who is great.
newhomeowners
Original Author
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
We are in Middlesex country...so central NJ
Architect...really..aren't they super expensive?
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dixie I won't stop providing counter arguments as long as there are inflamatory statements made like the ones below - which happen to come from MA in a recent thread. But it wouldn't have mattered who posted them, the response from me would have been the same. I find it disturbing that there is no declaration by MA right up front that he is an architect so that the OP's (especially new posters) know the perspective from which his views are derived. In all of the other forums that I read and post on, this is the norm by true professionals in their respective fields. "I suspect that much of the savings from the use of prepackaged designs and/or incomplete documents is subsequently given to the builder in change orders or noncompetitive cost plus billing. Why are owners so stingy with designers and so generous with builders?" "I think the bottom line is that in addition to a lower hourly fee, a home designer must be providing an abbreviated set of contract documents which inevitably exposes the owner to more risk and therefore more cost. I believe this must account for half or more of the design fee savings." "I can see how these approaches could work for off-the-shelf designs or for spec houses but my practice is for completely custom original designs tailored to the needs of the homeowner's family and the site. A stock plan would be useless even as a starting point and the plans given to me by owners usually just slow down the initial design phase and increase my fee. "
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Ugh. We have been in this situation before. Ended badly- someone went to jail... We were fortunate not to get liens placed, partially because we got aggressive with the "employees" who turned out to be subs... (they had pretended all along to be directly employed by our guy - 'til they didn't get paid). We became the ultimate paranoid people when it came to choosing a builder and doing payouts this time around... So... be careful. Document everything. Every conversation with your GC and with the subs. Have you been getting lien waivers for your materials and labor as you have gone along, or have you just paid the GC assuming the $$ was going were it was supposed to? He should have been providing you with waivers in exchange for your previous payments. That said, the fact that your build has taken friggin forever means that most of the people would be out of luck trying to place liens at this point. I bet he paid them or you would have heard about this WAY earlier.... Most states have a lien law where a sub or supplier has to serve notice that they are providing you with goods/labor within a certain time period (in our state it is within 30 days of first providing the service) and then file a lien within a certain time period after the material was delivered/service was completed(here it is 90 days after the last work was completed). So depending in NJ law, there is a limited exposure period, which would not be the whole 2 years worth of work.... Delivering items from a supplier to your job site can be considered "serving notice", so I would recommend, based on where I know you are in this project, that you check to be certain your cabinet and stone suppliers have been paid. Ditto tile and trim. DEMAND waivers from your GC for these expensive items! I think suppliers are sometimes less hesitant to come after you than an individual sub..... Speaking of which, your conversation with the mason may have been his means of "giving you notice" so that he can legally follow through with the lien paperwork. He wanted a witness to show that he told you who he was/what work he did on your home (and thus brought the family) to preserve his lien rights. I would take him seriously.... Did I mention UGH....?
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I was GC for our bathroom renovation and swore when I did the kitchen I would hire a GC. Well, it didn't work out with the GC I hired, so I ended up doing it myself again for the kitchen. If I could do it over again... I think I would spend the time finding another GC, or at least a good KD. The thing that saved us is that I had already interviewed a ton of subs for the bathroom, so used largely the same team for the kitchen. If I hadn't done that already, it would have been difficult to get everything together, since the kitchen was a larger and more complex process. Luckily I got to see how they all worked together in the bathroom, so felt pretty comfortable with the same team for the kitchen. I am a relatively new transplant to Portland, so don't know many people. I didn't have an extensive network of friends who had renovated before, so it was harder to find good sub recommendations so it just took longer with a lot more research. The thing that surprised me was how many details and decisions there were, and how much time I spent on the phone while trying to do my actual job as well. I don't have quite as much experience as you, but I spent several years as a project manager for scientific research, so am quite organized and detail oriented. This background definitely helped... I had crazy spreadsheets, gantt charts, and other PM tools help me track every step of the project. I would say that you should be prepared for things to take a bit longer if you are GC... one of the major frustrations that I've found along the way is that many building supply stores only open contractor hours -- 7am to 4pm, with very limited hours on the weekends. It's really hard for me to get out to see or order windows, tile, counters, etc etc because I work all week and by the time I've visited one building supply center, lumber yard, or tile/stone warehouse on the weekend the rest are all closed for the day. During the week, I always bike, so it's hard to get out to a lumber yard at 7am on my bike. So I could visit 1-2 per week, stretching out the amount of time I needed to make decisions. We will be ready for the backsplash next week and there are still 4 tile places I need to visit that I just didn't have the time to do. If I had a GC, they would at least pick up samples during work hours that I could look at. In regards to being a woman and serving as GC -- I did come across a few subs that seemed to have a problem taking directions from me. I interviewed one plumber who insisted on calling my husband to discuss the project and his bid instead of me, like I asked. Since I am financing the entire renovation, I make all of the final decisions. I had explained that to the plumber very explicitly, but he still refused to call me, and would only interact with my husband. Even when my husband would answer the phone and tell him he needed to call me, the plumber would still only call my husband. Obviously I didn't hire him. But it is annoying that I had to disqualify some subs who were probably quite competent and good at what they do because they had an attitude about taking orders from a woman. This happened a few times, and it ended up wasting my time interviewing people who turned out to be jerks. I needed to build a team that could work together and with *me*, and it likely would not have been an issue had I been male.
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Did the GC give you any indication of why? I've been glad to use fabricators my GC and tile setter use. They will only work with people who they feel will do as good a job as they'd do themselves if they were in the stone trade. Add to that the pull they have with the fabricators because they have a lot of repeat business on the line. You do one kitchen. Maybe a bathroom or barbecue. The GC does dozens. OTOH, maybe the GC is just getting a kickback or something? My tile setter's guys are really slow. And really frustrating. And really really really brilliant stone cutters. It may be that your GC's guys are great craftsmen but a little short in the customer service department. Con men are good at the callbacks, but not on the satisfactory outcome. :) Have you tried calling the fabricator to follow up? Next ask why the second place was so much less for a walk-in. Usually the GC's and designers get the best prices. Is it that the second yard is hungry and just trying to make the sale and stay in business? Or is it because they aren't as good? It's a hard one to puzzle out. I'd ask the GC and the second yard for some recent people they've done stone for--at least 3--who would be willing to let you call them for recommendations.
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scoutcat
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
We felt that it was well worth the money. They came up with placement and orientation that we would have never thought of.
annie.zz
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Do you have a kitchen design and cabinets picked out?
joep_2009
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
We'll be starting work next week so can't tell yet how happy we'll ultimately be with our GC. I think it all depends on how much you're willing to spend. If you don't have a big budget like us, it's much harder to find someone good. I'll share our experience interviewing GCs and hopefully this will help you in selecting your own.

We live in Essex county, these are all from our area.

This is for an 8x13 galley kitchen plus an 8x10 breakfast area.

GC#1 Full service outfit, but needed $2,500 up front to do design before they'll provide an estimate. $2500 would be credited back if you get the materials from them, otherwise non-refundable.

GC#2 They have done work for 2 our friends. $6.5 for demo, removal of nonstructural wall, paint, tile, cabinet install, sink and dishwasher hookup, backsplash. We get all the permits ourselves. We found a local electrician for the lights ($1250). Basically we take care of all the details and planning and once we're done they come in and do the work. We wanted to add a water line to our ref but decided to scratch that as we didn't want to go through the hassle of finding a separate plumber. This is the one we'll be using.

GC#3 They also sell their services through Costco which is how we found them. Quoted $3.3k for demo, cabinet install, removal of nonstructural wall, sink and dishwasher hookup. They have an inhouse plumber so if you need anything done in that area they can do it. They would take care of permits for wall and plumbing. Paint and tile, they were willing to do or we could find someone else if we like. Electrical you have to find your own though they could recommend people. You have to get your cabinets (Schrock) from them. We liked them but didn't go with them because Home Depot had a special on their Thomasville cabinets and the total price turned out $1k less than the Schrock. Thomasville and Schrock are exactly the same cabinets and are made by Masterbrand. In hindsight, I think it would have been worth it to pay the extra $1k and used them. We feel they would have helped us more with the planning and permits. Also since they have a plumber, we would have done the ref water line at no extra hassle and a reasonable cost.

GC#4 Guy didn't impress. Quoted $11k for demo, removal of structural wall, cabinet install, tile, paint, electrical, sink and dishwasher hookup.

GC#5 Full service outfit. Quoted $18k for demo, removal of structural wall, cabinet install, tile, paint, electrical, sink and dishwasher hookup. Gave a detailed quote with price breakdown. They seemed the most knowledgeable of all we interviewed. They'll only use their own subcontractors which brought up the price as these have set prices plus a markup for the GC. The $18k included $3k for removing our gypcrete subfloor and building a mud floor before tiling (best option as gypcrete is not a good subfloor for tile). We liked them a lot but they were beyond our budget.

GC#6 Family owned business. $9.5k for demo, removal of structural wall, cabinet install and tile. Electrical and plumbing (including sink and dishwasher hookup) done by affiliated businesses. They were ok but for the price GC#5 was better.
pagdyl
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
We have just finished our kitchen, review and write up to follow. We interviewed alot of the contractors in Middlesex countsy specificlly the East Brunswick area. We settled on Brown and Glynn and it was the right decision. They are wonderful to work with and more importantly they get in get the job done and get out as quick as possible. Our contact at Brown and Glynn was Nick Lapitzki 732 846 1717. If you decide to use an architect we used Dario Pasquariello who too was wonderful.

Members in NJ - Need a GC

Comments (6)

scoutcat

newhomeowners
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scoutcat

annie.zz

joep_2009

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Members in NJ - Need a GC

Comments (6)

scoutcat

newhomeownersOriginal Author

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scoutcat

annie.zz

joep_2009

pagdyl

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newhomeowners
Original Author