Review my American Standard HVAC Quote

9 years ago

Location New Jersey. I have two separate zones. This quote is for 2100 square feet second floor zone. Existing unit is a Comfortmaker 3 ton 10 SEER unit. Heat is 80,000 BTU Furnace. It has always been too hot on second floor, as high as 85 degrees on 90 + days with a/c running continuously. Also, during cold winter nights the temperature will fall to 65. Now second floor 14 year old Comfortmaker died after numerous repairs. Also has a known leak.

(First Floor is 2300 square foot and that Comfortmaker 10 SEER compressor and heat run fine)

Neither contractor would do a Load Calc.

Quote #1 from Factory Authorized American Standard Dealer for $12,000
He felt I needed larger units. But he didn't do load calc,
Platinum XM Multi-staged 4 Ton 18 SEER Condenser
Coil
Gold SV 80 AUFE 100,000 BTU dual stage furnace

Quote # 2 $7,000
Also no load calc
York 80,000 BTU 95% Furnace (no model # given - presumably single stage)
York 13 SEER Condensor
York Matching Coil

Well, it's really too damn hot so I just went with Quote #1. Did I get ripped off?

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Comments (6)

tigerdunes
9 years ago
Oversized on quote #1 especially on heating. No more than 80 K should be sufficient. Going up in size especially when not necessary can create another issue. Can your ductwork system support the extra CFMS going from a 3 ton to a 4 ton.

What model evap coil installed? I would like to check to see if this is an AHRI match.

While great equipment, I don't like how this dealer put this together.

Was a filter cabinet included? New refrigerant lineset included? New two stage thermostat installed? This would be a must to keep you off high stage because you would rarely if ever need it.

Yes, I think the pricing is too high but more concerned about the reasons for your comfort issues with old system plus the sizing of new equipment.

IMO
Savage123
Original Author
9 years ago
I asked American Standard Quote #2 multiple times if the ductwork can support the system and he was vague in his replies. However, last year I had the ductwork enlarged due to low flow issues.

I do not have the model of the evap coil.

A new seven day programmable 2 stage thermostat is included. Presumably two stage.

There is nothing on the quote about a new filter cabinet. Old lineset is behind wall and will be reused.

If it is an overpowered Platinum XM Multi-staged 4 Ton 18 SEER Condenser and Gold SV 80 AUFE 100,000 BTU dual stage furnace won't it just run on a lower stage and be fine?
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The price seems good considering the amount of equipment and work to be done. Is the quote form a Carrier Factory Authorized dealer? The sizes seem reasonable for the furnaces and AC. Did the contractor do a load calculation? I assume the furnace sizes are the smallest available. Here are my general comments: - I would prefer 90%+ AFUE furnaces with mutli-speed or variable speed blowers. Installing the one in the attic is more difficult but possible. The downstairs furnace should be easy. - If you suffer from high humidity in the summer then consider 2-stage AC units. You have small sizes so it is not that critical if the units have been sized correctly. - I would rather see the linesets replaced and not flushed. This may not be possible for the unit in the attic. - I suggest getting 4 inch media filters rather than 1 inch. - Why is the contractor quoting a Carrier Comfort furnace for downstairs? Is it a size issue? - Ask if you can get the Carrier 10 year labor warranty. It is a good investment in my opinion. All parts should already receive a 10 year parts warranty.
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Ham I always like to congratulate homeowners who make the effort to perform a load calc. It is good information especially if you have a load calc to compare against the dealer. A couple of things. Trane/AmStd 803 stat will help you on humidity control in AC cooling. If humidity is not a concern for your climate, then forget about it and go for a quality stat like the 802 model or same HW VP 8320. Honeywell makes Trane stats, some are just rebranded, the high end mdls are proprietary. I still would stick with the 3 ton AC condenser. Here is the sticky part though. You must have a three ton rated blower in your furnace for AC cooling. This is problematic because it is difficult to find a small BTU furnace with a 3 ton blower. I am not surprised at your load calc for heating. I did a little research this morning and found a quality Rheem furnace with a 41 KBTU output and a three ton blower. It is a comparable model to the AmStd as it has the high eff x-13 blower. I am providing a link for your review. Still think the AmStd quoted would be fine. Certainly it is better than what you have and will save in operating costs. What have dealers said about new lineset? I do encourage you to consider a whole house pleated filter media cabinet. As long as you have good accessibility, changeout is easy and these filters last up to one year before filter needs replacing. I have Trane's Prerfect FIt media filter. IMO Here is a link that might be useful: Rheem Furnace
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I am a little skeptical of this calculation. The summer temperature is a little too high, and the winter is not low enough in my opinion. Some of the numbers are strange. The heat gain from people is about the same as the walls. Do you have many windows facing the south? You have 1.5 tons of heat gain just from the windows. There is a big loss for the fireplace. I would have thought that would be covered in the infiltration number. "Existing unit cooled and heated satisfactory (when it worked). Of note, both Family room and Foyer have 20 foot ceilings." If this statement is true, then there is no need to increase the size of the furnace or AC. The Trane dealer sizing seems more realistic. Get a third quote if you want more data points.
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tigerdunes
9 years ago
Has this system been installed yet?

I would drop down to the 80K furnace size with 4 ton rated blower.

What is thermostat selection? Mdl number please.

I would also ask him if your existing lineset matches to correct size to the manufacturer spec for the 4 ton condenser. Highly doubtful.

What is Mdl number of evap coil? Find out.

You need a pleated filter media box cabinet.

Push him. The more I learn, the more I don't like.

IMO
mike_home
9 years ago
If the work consisted of just replacing the furnace and condenser then the quote is high in my opinion.

Did the contractor verify the old line set will support the new 4 ton AC condenser? Did he verify the duct work will support 1600 CFM of air flow? It is not good practice to increase sizes without a load calculation.

If you set the thermostat to be a constant temperature in the summer and winter then the equipment should stay in the low stage most of the time. It is not the way I would operate the equipment.
Savage123
Original Author
9 years ago
The system has not been installed yet. I spoke with him on the phone and got some answers in regards to the American Standard HVAC System.

1) The included thermostat is the ACONT802 2 stage thermostat
2) He is "99% sure" that my ductwork can support a 4 ton system. He will stop by in the next 24 hours to verify.
3) He is "99% sure" that my lineset can support a 4 ton system. He will verify when he stops by. If not, he will install a new lineset.
4) It is a matching coil. He did not have the model #.
5) A ? Filter Track Box is included in the quote.
6) Because the furnace is an 80% furnace, I am actually getting 80,000 BTU output, not 100,000 BTU.
7) Due to technical reasons, it would be difficult to put a 95% furnace in the attic (where the current one is located). It can be done, but would entail significant expense.
tigerdunes
9 years ago
1.wrong thermostat-not a two stage model that controls staging. You will always go to high whether needed or not. Recommend HW Prestige IAQ that also offers dehumidify on demand feature for AC cooling.

3.you cheat the capability of new condenser and can cause trouble if lineset not the correct size to the AmStd specification.

4.find out coil model number,it should be best matching Trane/AmStd, not a 3rd party model which would be completely unacceptable. Post back.

5.what model filter cabinet?

6.you should drop down to the 80 K furnace size. Yes, I realize it is a noncondensing 80% eff furnace. Dealer seems intent on oversizing you.

IMO

Review my American Standard HVAC Quote

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Review my American Standard HVAC Quote

Comments (6)

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