I'm sorry they didn't listen to you. I'm glad you asked what it was even though you didn't want it.
Before my hysterectomy the nurse put something in my line and I asked what it was and she told me an antibiotic. I laid there for just a minute or two and KNEW I was having an allergic reaction to it. Called her over and told her I was and she said no, you're just nervous. That's just hives. About that time I saw my doctor and hollered at him to come over. He did and I told him and he said yep, mark that down as another one you are allergic to. I wonder what would've happened had I already been put under when they gave me that antibiotic.
Special thoughts and prayers for you.

Char

Susan, I can't believe they gave you something without telling you what it was. That seems extremely dangerous. I think I would try to get that doctor brought up on charges.

I'm sorry they did that in spite of your directive... Special thoughts for you today.. hope you get the fog cleared quickly..

(((Alisande)))

Boy that would really irritate me too! I would seriously consider asking the anesthesiologist why Versed was administered. From what you wrote it sounds like you specifically told the anesthesiologist 'no sedatives' and to me that means NO sedatives and he agreed. It's bad enough they gave it to you - but then you're gong to be billed for it also. Double insult.

On another note - how are you feeling? I hope the grogginess dissipates quickly.

I'd tell the doctor to add Versed as an "allergy" in my chart, if I was you. And I'd be very specific about it.

In some patients, it can cause "agitation, hyperactivity and combative behavior," like the time you "tried to get away."

Susan, I too have an extreme aversion to Versed for the same reasons you state. During a surgery follow-up appt with a doctor, he mentioned things we had chatted about right before being put under. What? I said that, I don't recall saying that! Oh, he said, you wouldn't because we gave you Versed. I nearly freaked.

So, the next time I had surgery, I made my wishes very clear that I was not to receive Versed and, like you, right before being wheeled down to the surgical room, I was mainlined a drug I didn't want. I was sooooo irritated. I can remember getting to the end of the hall right before the surgical room and nothing after that.

I spoke one on one with my doctor at the next follow up and told him it freaked me out a lot to know I'm having conversations I don't remember and afraid that they might not have been flowing with decorum. He assured me that whatever you say when on Versed, is exactly how you would express yourself under normal circumstances, you just won't remember it later. I'm sorry, but that really didn't ease my discomfort.

Jodi- who these days doesn't need Versed to forget things I've said. But I call that 'senior moments' LOL

Add me to the Versed aversion bandwagon. I had it twice, once during a colonoscopy/endoscopy, and the second time for another endoscopy. Every single time, I had unexplained bruises and scrapes. I've been told these procedures are so uncomfortable that a memory-erasing drug is necessary or people would refuse to have them done. But I don't believe that, I know several people who have had both procedures done without any drugs whatsoever.

Maybe talking to a pharmacist about these drugs so you know exactly what will happen, might help you and list the drugs you cannot take in writing. Also the pharmacist, might suggest some that you can take.

Put it on your list of allergies, they wouldn't dare give it to you with that warning.

I'm sorry they didn't listen to you. When I was in the hospital 2 weeks ago they were giving me Dilaudid and just brought it in. I'm assuming it was scheduled, but when I refused the last injection the nurse acted pissed off at me. Sorry, I know she had to waste it, causing more work for her but they really need to ask you before they bring you pain meds. They wanted me up and walking, wasn't having that much pain, and the Dilaudid just knocked me out. So, then they started bringing in Tordol. Didn't think I needed it that much but at least it didn't knock me out and make me sleep all day.

You have the right to refuse any medication and they should have listened to you. Some nurses get ticked off but I never do. I'm only glad the patient knows what medications they're on, because a lot of my patients don't. Their wife usually does but not them; so when they're in our hospital they just take whatever you bring in. Not very safe for them, if they've had some adverse reaction in the past and it's not in our computer system.

I would be furious if I were you too. I had a minor surgery done last fall (09'), but it's a surgery most people get put under for. They did not tell me I had an option to NOT be put under, and of course I didn't meet with anesthesiologist until minutes before they wheeled me into the OR. I had such horrible anxiety, not about the surgery itself, only about being put under. When I met with him he said they could give me a spinal instead of put me under, and then give me as much or little of a "calming" drug that I wanted.

I opted for the spinal and told them I did not want any drug that was going to dope me up or make me forget. After they got me in there and gave me the spinal, I could tell they had given me "something" in my IV but I didn't bother complaining as I was mostly just happy as a clam I wasn't put under.

I could tell the surgeon and almost every nurse in the post OP recovery room was irritated I was awake, hahahaha. Every time a nurse came up they would say, "what are you doing awake?". Seriously, my surgery ended up taking 15-20 min tops, no need to be put under. Plus, I got to snack as soon as they got me to phase 2 recovery, while I waited for my legs to come back to life. :)

It's amazing how much they love to knock you out or drug you up so it's easier for them to not have to deal with an awake, speaking, question asking human!

Oh, and speaking of unnecessary medical interventions, you should see the movie, The Business of Being Born, made by Ricki Lake...if you get the chance. It's about the birthing industry and it's fascinating!

You mean ...

... that they don't want you to be able to quote chapter and Versed to them, afterward?

ole joyful

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who dislikes Versed, and not the only one who would be angry about this. I'd like to write a letter of complaint--not a threatening letter, but just to have the matter taken into consideration so this doesn't routinely happen to others. I wonder if I should address it to the hospital or the anesthesiologist......?

I have no complaint about the surgeon, who has always distinguished himself by explaining everything to me. (This is important, as I always want to know everything.) I don't think he was involved in this decision anyway. The anesthesiologist, whom I just met today, briefly, was an arrogant guy who cut me off while I was speaking. He argued that I was wrong to say I was "allergic" to naproxyn because I didn't really have an allergy to it. I had a "bad reaction." Well, that's nice, but the hospital asks (over and over) about "allergies," not "bad reactions." And the tachycardia I get from naproxen is a very "bad reaction."

By the time I saw him, I had given (orally) my list of allergies to three nurses, who made notations on my chart. And yet he asked what I was allergic to, and became impatient with my answer.

Incidentally, I told new fewer than four people (because they asked) that I was allergic to naproxen. It must have been written all over my chart. But when I was being discharged the nurse suggested that I take Aleve for pain. Aleve is an OTC form of--you guessed it--naproxen. I didn't correct her because she was so nice, but I suppose I should have, nicely.

Jenn, I never heard of that movie, but I'd love to see it. I'll look for it. Back in the 70s, when I was having babies, Suzanne Arms did something that's probably similar when she wrote the book Immaculate Deception. I was a La Leche League leader, and a strong and vocal advocate for safe, non-intrusive birth practices that kept mothers and babies together. Our local hospital (where I would never go for any purpose) and I locked horns over this. Their birth practices were horrid, and I made the administration and staff very angry. But eventually they were forced to change because local mothers were giving birth elsewhere. It was all about the bottom line.

Vala and Oldgardener, I'm going to do exactly what you suggested. I should have thought of it myself years ago.

Thanks!

PS: I slept for two hours this afternoon, and feel somewhat less groggy. Hope the upswing continues.

Reading all this, my biggest problem with it is they shot something into the port without telling you FIRST what it was. Why is that acceptable?

I had surgery a few years ago and was in the pre-op area. They told me they were going to give me a sedative, which would make me drowsy, and would they would then administer the anesthesia in 5-10 minutes. They lied. Whatever they gave me knocked me out instantly. I don't appreciate being lied to.

The nurses were friendly and chatty, and I was friendly and chatty. We were all chatting. :-) The one who put in the IV gave me a form to sign. Yes, I should have read it. But it was about the fifth form I'd signed that morning, and I thought she said I was giving my consent for the IV.

When I expressed my surprised and displeasure at the Versed shot, she quickly said, "I told you I was going to use the IV to give you a sedative. You signed the consent form." I'm certain that I would have heard and responded to the word "sedative," no matter how friendly land chatty we were, since it was something I wanted to be very clear about at the hospital. But it was pointless to argue with her by then.

I know how you must have felt, Sue. I get the feeling that some hospital personnel, no matter how well meaning, get so used to dealing with patients--particularly ones who don't care to know much about the protocols--that they don't always treat them like thinking adults. They'll say whatever they think will make us feel good at the time. That's just something I've observed at times, and certainly doesn't apply to all medical workers.

Well, to be fair to the anesthesiologist, you did say "no valium" and he didn't give you valium. In fact, valium is rarely given for surgery nowadays except for people on the morning of heart surgery. It is not part of an anesthetic because it has a much longer half-life than versed. But they are the same classification of drug, which is a benzodiazepine or an "anti-anxiety" medicine. There are three drugs usually administered (at least by me) for a sedation case and those would be versed, fentanyl (a narcotic) and propofol (an anesthetic). The three drugs work in conjunction with each other to provide anxiolysis, pain relief, and anesthesia. It is a common cocktail that works well for most people.

So technically that anesthesiologist didn't disobey your wishes, but he really did because he understood that you didn't want versed, valium, alprazolam, or any other anti-anxiety medication. There are more and more people who are disturbed by the memory erasing properties of versed. sorry he was so arrogant-that's why I quit working with them and went to a small hospital to do my own anesthesia. Don't get me going on the waste of money in the "anesthesia care team" model which is using an anesthesiologist "supervising" from 1-4 nurse anesthetists.

The reason versed is used in many anesthetics is to prevent recall, or being awake during your surgery when you are supposed to be asleep. Read the book "Silenced Screams" by Jeanette Liska and you will know why you received versed.

ummm now i wonder what they have given me for both my hyst, and my lumpectomy, cause i closed the outpatient center for the second, and was in recovery on the first for ages...

patients rights... what a strange concept!

hope you're better tomorrow...lots of fluids i understand, can help...

I went in one day for a stomach scope, and found out I needed a driver to take me home. They were going to cancel until the nurse told she never took the Valium when she had this test. I told her I can do that and she said she would put in an IV just in case. It was easy after they got past the gagging section. That is when I realized the importance of a human touch. She rubbed my arm all the time unless the doc wanted something and I immediately tensed when she left and relaxed when she came back. She is the kind of nurse we hope to get. I have had the test twice and no sedative.

The reason versed is used in many anesthetics is to prevent recall, or being awake during your surgery when you are supposed to be asleep. Read the book Silenced Screams by Jeanette Liska and you will know why you received versed.

Sleeperblues, I have always had good experiences with nurse anesthetists. They've been as patient as they are knowledgeable.

I looked up "Silenced Screams," and realized I've read about this awful phenomenon. But I'm curious about one thing: If this happened to a person who had been given Versed, would she not experience the excruciating pain, or would she not remember experiencing the excruciating pain?

Vala, I met someone once who had the endoscopy without sedation. I asked him what it was like, and he said, "I experienced the same thing you did. The only difference is, I remember it."

My gastroenterologist (sp?) has had the test done twice without sedation himself. If I ever have to do it again, I think that's the way I'd go. I hope I'd get your nurse. :-)

When I was going in for a bunionectomy, the anesthesiologist in pre-op asked if I was feeling anxious and I responded that I was not. He said he thought I was anxious and he was going to give me something for it and he quickly added something to my IV. I don't remember anything after that. I was so annoyed. I like to be awake when I go into the OR because I think it is interesting to look around. Several months later, when I was in St. Louis to have a nerve repaired in my arm, I was wide awake when I went into the OR and I enjoyed that.

My husband recently lost 3 fingers in a band saw accident. When he met with a surgeon, he told him over and over not to try to reattach one of his fingers (the other 2 couldn't be reattached) if it would even possibly give him problems or if it would make his recovery longer. Sure enough, the surgeon reattached it and it has been nothing but a problem. The finger turned black within days. It has been obvious that it isn't going to make it since 3 days after surgery. Now we are seeing another surgeon that it removing it on Monday. The part we are so mad about is he will now be losing another inch of the finger due to complications form the surgery he didn't want to begin with!
I just wish people would listen!

LOL This reminds me of something that happened to me this year. I had some dental surgery and was given Versed along with another drug. When I went back a week later I was met in the hall by strangers to me who said....."I remember you.....you were so funny". Well apparently I kept telling the dental surgeon that he couldn't start the procedure since I wasn't asleep. I guess they all got a good chuckle out of my behaviour but they did change the drugs for the next procedure I had done.

I'm glad you have always had good experiences with "us", Susan, but I know we're not all great. I've met some bad nurse anesthetists and some very good, compassionate anesthesiologists. But in general, NA's have the caring, feeling touch of a nurse and I know I try to be a nurse first.

As to the phenomenon of recall, and what Ms. Liska's experience was, it was being wide awake but medicinally paralyzed with meds used in anesthesia for just this purpose. So she was awake and could hear and feel everything. But there are differing variations to recall, some taking the form of bad dreams or post traumatic stress disorder.

There are a multitude of reasons for this happening, and is thought to be rare. Malfunction of equipment i.e., the anesthesia machine not delivering the gasses to you would be one. Another reason would be if a patient takes a lot of medicines which affect liver metabolism and causes them to burn off the anesthesia at a rapid rate. The medicines can be legal (narcotics, benzos, anti-depressants, anti-seizure meds) or illegal (meth, pot, narcotics, etc.)
Even a high alcohol intake affects how anesthesia is metabolised. So the message here is always be honest with your anesthesia provider about what you are doing, legal or not.

This is an interesting topic. My step dad, a WWII vet, woke up during all of his surgeries, even his heart surgery. The heart surgery was when they were closing him up. In his case, his eyes flew open and he says he felt and remembered everything during that time. It was only a few seconds but he said it seemed longer and he definately felt the incredible pain. He has more surgeries after this and each time he'd wake up.

I say he was a WWII vet because his son did some research to find out why someone would wake up during surgery and during his research he found that WWII vets had a higher rate of waking up during surgery. The article went on the say that it could be because of the lack of sleep during their fighting or it could be because of something the government gave them to keep them up or some other chemical.

I have found that very interesting but I've never done my own research so don't know if this is all true.

Speaking of waking up during surgery...

I have glaucoma. After exhausting all the different eye drops available my opthomologist suggested that I get a small stainless steel tube inserted into my eye to let the excess fluid weep out. It's out of sight up above my eyelid. I was put under for this but woke up during the surgery. I felt the Doctor make an incision in my eye. I said, "Owww". When I heard myself it was soft and drawn out. With disbelief in his voice he asked, "You felt that?" I answered, "Yes!". Whatever they were giving me I'm sure they cranked it up because the next thing I remember is the Dr. saying, "Were just about finished." The thought of having something like that happen but being paralyzed and not able to say something is frightening!

I hope you're feeling better, susan.

Ron

WOW! So sorry you had to go through that. I'm glad you posted and let others know what goes on. Thank you for that!

Well, and here I am soon to undergo an Upper Endoscopy (the 25th). Now I am a bit scared. She said they'd use the Profonol (whatever is the real name) and that it was a great knock out drug especially for short term procedures. I am never anxious about the surgeries but I am about waking up. I hate any narcotic such as valium and morphine. Can't stand the fog or the inability to stay awake. Think I'm going to make sure I only get the anesthesia without all the other anti-anxiety drugs.

I remember going in for a knee scope years ago and my friend was in the operating room watching the procedure. We were all Physical Therapists and would watch surgeries every so often. He got my permission to watch mine. He told me afterwards that I kept asking them if my underwear was still on and not to look at my lacy underwear! If it weren't because nothing embarrasses me, I'd have died!

Orie, did you read the posts above about having an endoscopy without anesthesia? It's something to think about.

They use propofol for endoscopies here, although my doctor has his own done without anything, and I would seriously consider that if I ever have to have another one. My experience with propofol has been that I feel great afterward. I'm guessing they'd use a very light dose for an endoscopy, though, because I doubt they want the patient to be asleep.

I'll tell you my terrible experience with Versed. After being induced and laboring for 2 days it was decided to do a c-section. It was the worst thing in the world. The Versed, knocked me out, but I was awake and couldn't tell them. I felt the complete c-section from beginning to end. In my mind I was telling them how much it hurt and to stop and do something, but my husband and Doctor and nurses all said that I didn't say anything during the surgery. Afterwards they told me that I was dreaming it and that I couldn't have felt anything. When I met with the Anisthesiolgost before my second c-section they told me that The Versed probably knocked out my communication skills and made it so that I couldn't communicate. I was so freaked out about having a 2nd c-section that I told my husband if I started blinking my eyes that I could feel what they were doing. Well I didn't feel anything but when They did the spinal for the c-section they did it too high and it affected my diaphram. I was having a hard time breathing, and the only thing that they could give me was Versed, I refused and told them instead just to sit by my head and remind me to breath. I am glad someone posted this and that I am not the only one with a reaction. When ever they ask about allergies, Versed is first on my list.

Stacie

I did ask her about having it done while awake abd she said it was totally up to me and that she had done others like that. She also said she didn't recommend it. Told me that there are a lot of structures in that area and that although she would not be in my airway, I will feel like she is. Says she had a patient who couldn't stop gagging and made it very difficult. They had to knock the patient out. She did give me the option, though. I don't know what to do.

I had a nerve block to my lumbar spine area a few years back and the MD didn't knock me out. Said the pain I was in was worse than any discomfort the block would cause. I went with his suggestion and only had a local. I felt some discomfort but very tolerable and was in great shape afterwards. I remember the male nurse helping out kept looking at me and asking me if I was sure I didn't want to be knocked out. Told me he'd never seen a patient tolerate it awake. Well, I did it and was glad to have done it. An endoscopy sounds a bit more difficult to tolerate. Don't know that I could do it.

I have no opinion on Versed, never used it. I've had anesthesia twice (when I had arm surgery and my colonoscopy at age 55). Both times I had Valium with Demerol. Both times I was fine, I remember being in the surgical room before each procedure and then waking in the recovery room. If I need any further surgery or procedures, I will speak with the anesthesiologist beforehand.