Real Capacity - 6 kg 12xx Miele vs. Big FLers

16 years ago

I've found out about an oportunity to get a Miele W12xx closeout at a very good price and was wondering about the "real" capacity of something like this vs. one of the ultra big sized FLers (take your pick - Miele W48xx, HEt5, LG, Nexxt, ...)? No more W12xx in any appliance showrooms, so can't do a dry laundry comparison.

I remember past notes saying some of the vendor's don't recommend filling up the uber-sized machines anyways, so it might be questionable about the realistic capacity difference. Has anyone with an ultra sized washer weighed the largest "normal" load they would use?

Right now we have a HEt5 on reserve, but it could be cancelled. Met with the contractor doing the laundry room remodel, and he will start in 2 weeks and it will take about 10 days to complete so there is still time for us to change our minds.

BTW - saw the new 110V W30xx at the dealer. It's probably a perfectly fine washer (within the 110V limitation), but the first impression is that it appears kind of cheap looking except for the price tag. The sales person agreed.

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (7)

fahrenheit_451
16 years ago
Is your laundry wall shared with a garage wall? If so, can you simply hedge your bet by putting a 220v (along with 110v as well in the laundry room) on the garage side that can be rewired into the laundry? I did this once as I always own an air compressor for my vehicles and prefer 220v; it is a good selling point if you decide to move. I also prefer 220v in appliances. Although we are awaiting our W4840 and T9820 to arrive, the reputation of Miele's residential units was built upon the units that you are interested in. The newer 110v units were designed with the North American market in mind as the biggest complaint is having to wire 220v for the original Miele models. If cleaning is the ultimate goal, the unit you are contemplating has a proven track record. Even if you should have to do more loads the energy savings are still worth it.
gordonr
Original Author
16 years ago
110V vs. 220V wiring isn't an issue for me. Walls will be open, and a chase down to the basement is also open so I'd at the very least put in the wiring to handle 220V-15A no matter what decision is made.
Related Discussions
Forget Miele, just get TL Speed Queen and have no problems!
Q
Comments (71)
Taking a chance and resurrecting this VERY old thread to ask a question about SpeedQueen - Don't want to risk being slammed for not choosing Miele. We are Miele fans - have half of all kitchen appliances from Miele - and were definitely considering a Miele laundry pair all along until I read this thread - I'm mostly concerned with the amount of time it takes for a Miele cycle, and since we have hired help doing most of the laundry, i'm worried that the helpers / maids will mess up with the complicated set of setting options on the Miele (and end up using the wrong temperatures etc!). We can't get residential models of Speed Queen where we are - but the local Commercial Speed Queen dealer (actually, Huebsch since we're in Canada) offered a commercial TL model that seems to have enough cycle settings to suit our needs. My question is, is anyone here familiar with the model ******YWN311 of Huebsch*******? The spec sheet says washtub volume is 3.3 cu ft - how does that compare to the "per kg" measurement that's used by, say, Miele? Any comments on whether these Speed Queen / Huebsch commercial machines would get "too rough" on fabrics? We're generally just washing sweatshirts, T shirts, school uniforms, beddings, towels etc. I'm not the type to put any delicates or sweaters into laundry machines. We haven't totally given up on Miele yet ... well-meant, constructive suggestions (on how to fool proof our machines to not be misused by hired helpers) are welcome. You'd be wasting your breath if you tell me to "go do my own laundry on the Miele" LOL. On the other hand, I'd like to quote a very smart friend of mine from when we attended together a Miele demo session), "if i'm THAT worried about a piece of garment, I'd just either hand-wash it or take it to dry cleaning".
...See More
Bosch Nexxt 500 vs Miele W 4840
Q
Comments (6)
I agree with dross, but will add some small details. Both have apparent advantages and disadvantages, and although the Miele does seem very interesting it is quite a bit more expensive and doesn't have a track record yet. I'm also deciding between the two, but I'm leaning towards the Miele (80% sure at this point) right now. I need to do some renovation to the laundry room to fit either machine and given my slow pace in doing these kind of projects I'm hoping some more history on the Miele comes to light before needing to order either machine. To be fair the W4840 is the top of the line big capacity whereas Bosch 500 is their mid level. It's probably more fair to compare the Bosch 500 with the Miele W4800 or the Bosch 700 with the Miele W4840 at some level. Some of the things I've noticed as differences between the W4840 and 500 are: Spin speed: Miele 1400 rpm vs. Bosch 1100 rpm. This equates with a g-force difference of 370 g for the Bosch and 600 g for the Miele. At some point you can't spin much more water out of clothing regardless of g-force, but I'd expect the Miele to have a noticable difference. Temperatures: -----------------Bosch----------------------Miele xxtra-----------150F + 3 min @ 170F----------N/A Sanitary/Boost----150F-----------------------158F Hot---------------125F-----------------------140F Very Warm---------N/A------------------------122F Warm--------------95F------------------------104F Cold--------------60F------------------------86F Maybe it's just how we are use to doing laudry with our Asko and now Danby, but more often than not we do cotton whites at 140F and colors at 104F so the Miele's temps line up with our past experience and comfort level. Also don't some emzynes activate around 104F? If so, it's nice to have that as your "warm" wash option. Profile Wash: The Bosch does this directly, whereas the Miele you need to plumb your washer to allow this. It appears the Miele will do a profile wash but you need a way of either filling it with cold water only, or having the cold go to both the hot and cold inlets or maybe start the machine in one setting and then changing it within 6 minutes. If you need to do a lot of profile washes, the Bosch is a better choice. Hinges: The Bosch washer has the hinge on the left (like most all big american FLers) whereas the Miele it's on the right. Since your dealing with new construction it's not a big issue. Down the line if you want to replace your washer with another brand your choices are VERY limited regarding other large washers which are also right hinged. Weight: The Bosch weighs around 220 lbs whereas the Miele is about 290 lbs. Manufacturers don't add weight for fun and to increase manufacturing costs, shipping costs and installation hassle. This added heft is not doubt heavier duty components and I'm guessing a much heavier and more stable outer tank. As dross said, there isn't a track record yet, and the Miele might even experience some new product hiccups, but the Miele appears to be built like a tank. The Miele does have their waterproof system as you mentioned. It is not as extensive as seen on their dishwashers with inner/outer concentric hoses and a valve at the water take off. I believe it will pump the water out if a leak occurs internal to the machine. I don't view this as an acceptable level of protection (particularly for upper floors) to justify not installing a simple manual shutoff and a drain pan. If a supply hose bursts it won't protect you and if the power goes out it can't work. Given it's limitations I don't view it as providing enough to be viewed as an advantage vs. Bosch. Dryer: My pair aren't going to sit side-by-side so matching equipment isn't an issue. For a lot less money than the Miele you can get a very good dryer with more capability. If you buy the Miele dryer have the venting designed so another dryer would work there as well. The Miele puts the vent outlet out the back on the lower left corner (as viewed from the front). Every other dryer I know of has their rear outlet more or less centered in the back. A very bizarre design decision on their part. However, if I end up going with the Bosch, I would consider their dryer.
...See More
Q. about Miele 4840 Washer?
Q
Comments (34)
Gordonr I am not comparing the W4840 with the 1215. I am comparing the 1215 6K 220V with the 3XXX 5.5k 110V. I posted a question in the Wiring Forum about the difference between 120V and 220V and why NA uses 120V and the rest of the world does not. A lot of technical discussion over there but here is the easiest answer to one of my questions: "Is 220V really more efficient than 120V?" "Yes. Given a certain amount of energy needed in watts, the higher the voltage, the lower the percentage voltage drop and the less the energy loss over the same size wire. That's why the power company can supply a whole neighborhood with two relatively small wires at 7200 volts (or more). The high voltage is potentially more dangerous, though, so it is transformed to a lower voltage for consumer use. It's amperage that determines the wire sizes needed and a 120V system has to transmit almost twice the current (amperage) as a 220v system delivering the same amount of energy (watts). Because ampacity-to-wiresize is basically a square function, the wire has to be roughly four times as large. Otherwise, severe voltage drop will occur over any appreciable distance and more energy will be lost to heat generation due to resistance."
...See More
miele 1113 vs 1215 capacity
Q
Comments (12)
Well, I've never used a 4840 and perhaps they are different because I believe they may not be true horizontal axis machines. You might try weighing your stuff (assuming an all-cotton load, as noted above) and then loading to that point to see how it works. If you're washing largely permanent press items, you won't be able to have loads as big as if they were cotton. But you should definitely try to wash the largest loads you can in order to save energy and time. Of course, heavily soiled loads should also be lighter - I'm talking the ground-in dirt type of thing. The question originally was how many towels. I think that varies enormously with the weight of the towels. Every day of the week I wash two loads of ordinary bath towels (typically heavy-weight ones from Wally World or KMart - but not Martha's heavy ones). These are used as pet bedding because I do animal rescue. Depending on which towels are in the mix I can easily wash 8 or 9 of them in a load (7 to 8 in the Asko machines). More than that I don;t get satisfactory fur-removal. These loads are about 12 lbs, but I know they work just fine in the 5K machine. But for my human towels, I have thicker and heavier ones so only 5 or 6 will wash well in a load. As for washing products, I use about 1 and 1/2 tablespoons of an ordinary (non-HE) big brand powder for all regular loads; I add STPP and perhaps a bit of sodium percarbonate for all-white loads that I really want to shine: for instance, my DH's white cotton dress shirts. I don't use fs, or any rinse additive. I used to use distilled white vinegar, but I got lazy. I wash with hotter temps than many people because I believe it is most efficient and effective at cleaning and because our laundry is almost entirely either cotton or linen and only rarely a synthethic. My machines are fed only cold water and all have the capacity of heating and holding at a given temp. I do between 30-40 loads per week, so that's a lot of laundry! If you're new to Fls, or even just a particular machine, I think you'll have an easier time of it if you take an experimental approach to learning what works best and try not chafe when the inevitable differences crop up. What worked for you before may need to be tweaked, and certainly what works for others may not work for you. I find it particularly effective to keep a written record when I'm fiddling with a new machine, or detergent or washing challenge. That way I'm not re-working the same ground without discerning the differences. Molly~
...See More
jerrod6
16 years ago
I have the Miele 1986 which is the 6K model version before the W12xx. It was installed in Jan 2003. I fill it up--it washes and rinses and everything comes out clean...so you can pack it to the gills and things are OK. It holds slightly more than my previous KitchenAid Super Capacity Plus TL. I wash queen size comforters in it with no problem(this depends on how thick or thin your comforter is). I doubt you can wash 20 pairs of jeans at one time but in my machine the regular cycle takes 41 minutes and the machine will reduce the time if the load is small so cycle time is not an issue for me. The machine also handles a 1 item load very well.

I am very happy with the build of the machine although it is heavy. It took 4 guys to mount it on the pedestal. Solid sides, sturdy electric locked door. The 220V is great as it can heat the water very hot...very fast if needed.

I just had my electric panel replaced last week,...the electrician glanced at the washer since it was at the end of a thick power cord and he mentioned that items that use 220 or 240 volts tend to last longer than those using 110V. First time I've heard of that.

I hope others can comment about the size comparison with the super-sized machines. You can load the 6k machine full and expect clean clothes.
gordonr
Original Author
16 years ago
jerrod6,

A HVAC person once mentioned a similar thing to me about 220V motors being more robust and efficient. Always wondered if he was talking about 3 phase equipment when he made that comment.

Got a bit more info about the available models. All the machines are new with a scratch or two, but the price is very good. All have the standard Miele warranty. Wonder if these were Miele returns in some fashion, but they say they've never been used.
gordonr
Original Author
16 years ago
To answer my own question...

Took 6 kg "normal" load of laundry and put it in a 6 kg Asko at a dealer (couldn't find a 6 kg Miele). It was pretty tight, but would probably be OK when saturated with water.

Then placed that same load in one of the big Whirlpool's and there was no question that you could add more clothing and not impact cleaning. Added another 2 kg, and it still left some space at the top. The 6 kg were a bit "pack in" the 6 kg machine whereas the 8 kg were still loosely sitting inside the Whirlpool.

My conclusion - if they rated the big machines by kg rather than volume I'd guess they would conservatively be rated as 8 to 9 kg machines. Bottom line - it seems like they should be able to effectively handle 25 - 30% more clothing than a 6 kg unit.
kerbosch
16 years ago
machines that are 4 cu ft or so would be about 8 kg

the considerations are - do you fill up the bigger units if you are separating laundry correctly? If you just shove it all in there then the 4 cu ft units are a good choice. Separating generally (assuming that this isnt a family of 5) the smaller Miele would be OK i think

also depends on what a "good" deal that you are getting on the small Miele
gordonr
Original Author
16 years ago
The deal on a scratch and (hopefully not) dent 1203 is right around $1000 and a 1213 for $1100.

Since we also do my Mom's laundry, it turns out being laundry for 5. Our laundry sorting isn't extensive with the bulk being: whites, colored, delicate, bedding and other specials (bath rugs, jackets, etc, etc.) With our 5kg machine it ends up being a huge bunch of loads per week.

I'd love to have the Miele for the heater and general quality, but I think the capacity of the bigger machines is going to win out here.

Real Capacity - 6 kg 12xx Miele vs. Big FLers

Comments (7)

fahrenheit_451

gordonr
Original Author

Related Discussions

jerrod6

gordonr
Original Author

gordonr
Original Author

kerbosch

gordonr
Original Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Real Capacity - 6 kg 12xx Miele vs. Big FLers

Comments (7)

fahrenheit_451

gordonrOriginal Author

Related Discussions

jerrod6

gordonrOriginal Author

gordonrOriginal Author

kerbosch

gordonrOriginal Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

gordonr
Original Author

gordonr
Original Author

gordonr
Original Author

gordonr
Original Author