I had 5 companies bid on our remodel. They were all very eager to earn the job and all made it clear that they could start asap. These are/were custom home builders who are now doing kitchens/baths/remodels to keep their subs busy, and to keep money coming in for themselves.

The painter and the trim carpenter for our selected GC each offered us a $2000 discount to use them, without us asking for it. And our GC cut his profit from his normal 20% in order to stay competitive with the other bids, again without me asking for the discount.

24 months ago, when these guys had all the work they could handle, I believe I would have been paying more. Many local contractors and subs (Indiana) are out looking for regular jobs to fill the void right now.

On the other hand, sometimes I think we're crazy to be dropping this kind of money into the house at this point in time. So it's a double edged sword.

Sandy

Busybme, EXACTLY! Your point about putting money into a home that has already dropped by $140K in 22 months since we bought it is so true! My husband asked me that a few days ago..should we be doing this now? My answer was that IF we can get it done for much less than we would have a few years ago AND the fact that I don't want to move again (we've downsized to a townhome from a large home when we were raising our family) then I want a kitchen I will love.

Yes, times are hard for almost everyone. But, there is only so much "fat" that can be cut out of any quote and still have the trademan have a profit. That profit covers all of his overhead, not just $$ in his pocket. If he can't bring in enough profit to cover his overhead, then the business will close. That's already happening to MANY small businesses and has affected several on this board's plans. Some have even lost money already given as a deposit and not been able to recover it.

So, while deals abound, please be mindful about insisting on a better deal to someone who has already given you a fair quote. You may be asking the impossible.

The one thing that has changed is that it's somewhat easier to find contractors to do work for you - but I do agree with live_wire_oak - that you won't necessarily get the super-bargains you hope for or else you'll suffer in the quality of the work.

While I agree with live wire oak I also learned from DH that if you don't ask you'll never know if you got the best price. We have a big project in the works and asked everyone to revisit their bids. So far our project cost is over 10% lower than before the holidays. We just asked, we didn't get nasty or threaten, we are spending a lot of money in uncertain times even though we have been planning to do this renovation for several years. Some would say our timing is bad and others would say it is good. We took no less than three bids on each part of the project.

Sandy,

We are nearing the point of getting construction bids, but there are very few contractors who do excellent work up here. Would you be willing to share your bid list with me? We are about an hour north of where you live. It would be fine to e-mail off list. cowlinguk at yahoo dot com.

Thanks!
Judy

I didn't like my existing range hood when I did my kitchen remodel 5 years ago, but I left it. It was custom and quality, it just had "NO" lighting and no power(Note: my 6 burner wolf is a commerical model cooktop, so this was severely under powered). So Monday I went online looking for deals. I found a place that said they purchased inventory from a supplier that went out of business due to the recession......I saved $1000!!!!! It was a Viking Pro series SS hood. Yippee!!!! Yes ......the recession is paying off!!!!
{{gwi:1575981}}

Judy, I'll drop you an email. I would recommend all of the GCs that bid on our project except for possibly one (I liked his job supervisor very much but the owner was a blow-hard...I wouldn't have been able to work with him).

smiles : )

S.

Cathee, you must be in my part of the world.

About 15 months ago we'd selected a cabinet maker and GC but decided we didn't have time before baby so we called it off. Last weekend we decided it was time and in a surprising coincidence the cabinet maker called us that Monday. We made an appointment and then called the GC.

Anyway, it's easier to get appointments for bids now.

But this kitchen is for us, and not resale, so I'm not worried about the money. A little worried about my contractors going out of business, but I have no real reason to be worried yet...

Look at me, stimulating the economy. How's that feel, economy?

We had our home equity line of credit yanked a year ago because of the economy. Thank goodness we weren't in the middle of a massive reno with a contractor and kitchen designer. Can you imagine if we had been down to the studs and the money dried up? We were shocked at the time, but I guess our bank was just ahead of the trend. And it was a great wake up call. Our $50K kitchen has now become a slow paced, DIY labor of love for under $20k - we are just doing what we can pay cash for pretty much. We are doing everything we can ourselves, am choosing inexpensive options such as opening shelving rather than wall cabinets (not an option in Cali I realize) and considering IKEA cabinets. We couldn't be happier. Sure, it may take us years to finish it, but I can rest at night and prologing it makes it easier to pay for (and god forbid one of us loses our job, we still will have a workable kitchen). Of course, I am lucky that DH is handy. After all its only a kitchen and while I am TKO, I have to realize that houses prices are dropping and you don't want your kitchen to be too fancy for your house. We have friends that overspent on theirs and now they feel a little trapped because they will never recoup what they paid for it.

For those of you that are taking a home equity line of credit to do your work, make sure you write yourself a check for the full amount right away so you won't get left holding the bag.

rexem, that's excellent advice about taking your home equity funds out. Several months ago some friends of ours also had their line of credit canceled. We weren't ready to start our renovation yet but we took our money out anyway and put it in the bank. We had to start paying interest a few months earlier than we'd planned, but we figured it was a small price to pay to ensure that the funds would be available.

I'm happy that our current renovation is helping to keep a whole crew of workers employed over the winter. Our general contractor told us he's never had to lay his guys off over the winter because he always scrounges around for work for them even if the jobs don't bring him much profit. He was relieved when we hired him for our project because he'd been afraid he'd have to lay guys off for the first time.

As far as discounts, we were given a 12% discount on our cabinets because we ordered in December. The cabinet company (Crown Point) is also offering some upgrades for free right now as extra incentive.

I've seen kitchen showrooms and general contractors advertising in the paper offering 10% discounts.

I received a quote for my marble countertops that was more than 50% lower than the quotes from 3 other companies. The extremely low price actually makes me leery.

Erika

Home equity loans? Hello? I'm sorry for going on a rant here, but we are in a recession/depression, and taking on more debt is not a good idea. During a time of rising values, taking on more debt to improve the value of the asset being encumbered makes kinda, sorta, maybe sense (even though you rarely get back 100% of what you put into it), but in these times, one doesn't have that justification.

Don't take out a line of credit unless you're sure that you can pay it back even after a job loss, divorce, and huge medical bill. These three things are bringing down too many good American families.

And if you're going to remodel a kitchen, admit that you're doing it for your own needs, not investing in your home.

Flame away, folks. (Before you ask, I paid cash for mine.)

Thanks for your advice, bluekit. We're fortunate enough that we have a large amount of savings and assets to pay back the loan if we had to. Did someone say they were remodeling for the sake of investment? I must have missed that. We're not renovating our house in order to raise its value, although in the long run it will. We're renovating because we'll be living here a long time and we want to enjoy our home.

We are using a home equity line of credit, at a low rate, rather than take cash out of funds that have decreased in value lately. We have a large percent of equity in this modest house. I want to enjoy a nice kitchen with my sons before they grow up and are gone.

We are lucky enough that the recent economy troubles haven't really affected us or our plans for the kitchen. We have lived rather "small" while watching many families in our community live large. My 13-year-old son is struggling with severe jealousy issues, comparing what we have to what his friends' have.

while building now may seem risky to some, for others it is an opportunity. our home is being constructed by a small custom home builder in our back yard. we are living in the original house in the front. the builder gave us a first estimate sometime in the early part of the spring. dh refused saying all the prices quoted looked like we were in the middle of a building boom, meaning they were definitely inflated.
while i was upset, dh has never in the twenty years i've known him been wrong about investments or the economy. magellan tells me over and over again the economy is cyclical; and of course it is. and while things will improve it won't be next year or for another five or six years at least.
if it were entirely up to him we would still be waiting since he believes builders will continue to lower their prices, or in his words, become "more reasonable." but we are living in a temporary house with appliances that no longer function. i prepare all meals using a toaster oven, a cook top and some kind of contraption recently introduced to me as a "toaster oven".
needless to say, i let him know time was up when the first builder submitted a revised bid two months later. as he explained it most of the subcontractors coming off of jobs had nothing lined up. the builder had no other prospects and there was a decrease in some materials. for some reason appliance manufacturers are going ahead with their annual increases, even though many sellers still have merchandise in their warehouses.
we are framing now but had to purchase our appliances to avoid the yearly increases and will take delivery of most of them in early february. i don't get the appliance hikes at all. i guess they can do whatever they want, but i wouldn't be surprised if there were big sales going on later in the year.
so it's looking like we will enjoy next thanksgiving in our new home; where i will prepare the bird in an actual oven. the crew is here every day ...well, not today as it is snowing but they're pretty much a fixture in our everyday life. the builder is here most of the time as we are the only new build. he has some smaller jobs around town, mostly for media rooms and finishing off basements. he did tell us many suppliers have reduced builders' credit lines so they need to pay as they order. makes sense though. if the builder doesn't get paid, neither does the supplier. we are secure in the relationship since we have close friends who are in business with him and he lives around the corner. any legal problems and the attorney is free, as he is my dh. it's really great how people usually don't screw with lawyers.

for some reason i thought i was on the building forum! ...but i suppose my post pertains to kitchens as well. good luck.

i worked out of town,lived in motels,worked crazy overtime for years..saved every penny..then i built my own house
my wife and i..out in a rural are..the woods..
it has taken me almost a year , i am real close to being done.. and ITS MINE...I OWN NOT A DARN PENNEY...
the banks can go to ..broke.. i dont care..i do not have nary a credit card..used to..got rid of that B>S.
and...IT FEELS GOOD !!!

I got several quotes all within 11K - 14K for cabinets alone and another 2k for installation. When the counters, flooring, appliances etc were added, we were at 30K. I just couldn't do it given the economy.

Now I'm planning to add/change out a few cabinets, paint them (getting quotes tonight but might try my hand at it), going with Wilson Art HD counters. I'm so much more comfortable with this approach. Am I getting a dream kitchen? No but I'm getting all the functionality I wanted, a very attractive kitchen and an extra 25K in my pocket. It just makes more sense right now for us.

I'm not looking for a "great deal," necessarily, on our bids ... but I fear less that we'll be ripped off.

(Does that make sense?)

I am a budget shopper too - but remember to get a huge discount you will be asking your contract workers to take a huge cut in pay. They are living in this hurting economy too and trying to make ends meet. If they don't have any work - then yes-maybe they will be willing to take a cut in pay becuase some work is better than none.

I own a custom window treatment design business and I've been hit by the economy over the past 1.75 years. I don't have near the amount of work I used to and I am making pricing cuts in areas where I can. (I haven't raised my labor rates during this time and I'm not charging my customers for shipping and handling of their products.) But, there's definitely a limit to how low I will go.

Ok - I'm off my soapbox and I hope I didn't make anyone too mad!!!! :>)

Bluekit, why would people flame you for good advice? Shouldn't matter whether you payed cash or not. We are in a similar situation as erikanh and maureeninmd. We carry no debt. Our business was hit hard by 9/11 when we thought we would be renovating. We saved the business and grew it back. It continues to do well even now b/c of the lessons we've learned.
I'm still cautious and taking it slowly but I have to do something as my 1980 appliances are wearing out all at once and the kitchen layout is a disaster. Now that I've got the bones of the house in good order the fun begins. It's just not quite as fun in this economic climate.

Unfortunately we're not seeing any positive effects of any downturns here. I say unfotunately, because I can't pay enough to get a freaking contractor to show up on site more than a day to get a deposit then never show again. And blinds? Downsy I wish you were in town...I'm trying to spend about ten grand on custom window treatments and haven't been ble to get the freaking order placed beyond 1/3 of the order, and then it's taking months to get the treatments delivered and installed.

And blue, your advice is good for some, and not for others. USing cash in investments that have taken significant drops isn't a good thing to do. It's best to sit and hold, and with low rates, it' not a bad time to borrow at all. Would I do it in many areas of California where home values are appropriately dropping by the hundreds of thousands? No, but elsewhere...it's not a bad idea at all.

The only benefit of the economy is that the house we're offering on this month has dropped in price somewhat, and they aren't getting any offers, so perhaps we'll luck out there :)

Igloochic- I wish I could get your business too! LOL

downsy, I don't see how anything you said could make anyone angry. Your points are quite valid. Businesses of all types will have to find ways to stay competitive, and many times that does mean offering discounts. However, as consumers we should realize that there's only so low that a business can go without risking their very survival.

I think it's fair to seek and expect discounts in the current economic downturn. But I can't ignore the fact that these contractors and small business owners will have to make up the losses somewhere. It probably means they'll pay their workers less and they're taking a pay cut themselves. I try and imagine my boss coming to me and saying, "The economy is bad so I'm slashing your pay by 25%. Take it or leave it."

I want a fair and competitive price from my general contractor, but I also value his integrity and his insistence on quality work. I'm willing to pay him a fair price knowing that he cares about his workers and his customers. I probably could have gotten a lower bid from another company that was desperate for my business, but I preferred to pay more to someone I can trust.

Erika

"I want a fair and competitive price from my general contractor, but I also value his integrity and his insistence on quality work. I'm willing to pay him a fair price knowing that he cares about his workers and his customers. I probably could have gotten a lower bid from another company that was desperate for my business, but I preferred to pay more to someone I can trust."

Yes ... businesses are dropping like flies all around us, and often it's because we want everything for so cheap. There was a time I too would have rejoiced to save a bunch of money because a company had to close its doors and sell off everything ... not anymore, though. It's too much.

There won't be anything of quality to buy anymore, at any price, because overseas manufacturing is making it too difficult for such companies to survive. I have a dining room full of Statton furniture, Waterford crystal, and Wedgwood china ... no, I'm not excited that maybe I can score a few deals as they dwindle away ...

Same with the trades. Drive too hard a bargain, and you won't have anyone left to do your work for you.

This thread's a few weeks old, but just thought I'd share our experience thus far....we're only in the bid-getting process and don't even have a clear plan yet, so we're only just getting our feet wet. But I'm finding that---at least in California---we are getting much lower quotes due to the economy. While it's true that there's only so much fat to cut, a good bit of any remodel is labor unless you're doing a full DIY project, and hourly labor costs are dropping here. Local cabinetmakers also need work, so the costs of that are dropping---and many are wonderful craftsmen who we would never even have considered using due to cost a few years ago. The one area where this doesn't seem to be helping is appliances, since a few years back the scratch-n-dent places had many high-end options, and now there are just fewer projects going in (and, I imagine, more people opting to keep a not-perfect appliance in exchange for a price break) so fewer deals to be had there.

We've set a few hard-n-fast rules on our project---the most significant of which are that we want to source materials locally, which rules out lots of otherwise lovely products, and we want to pull permits, which limits us to licensed contractors---and even with that, it's looking more affordable than we'd first assumed. Without those constraints, it would be downright cheap.

We are still figuring out whether we have the cash on hand to tackle our project properly, and would not consider drawing on what (very little! :) equity we have left in our house to do it. (We did at least buy on the way down, but certainly not at the bottom....if we're even there yet!!) We look at it not as an investment in the house per se (though hopefully it will be, in time), but as an investment in our quality of life in the coming years. After all, given the market, we may be in this house much longer than we'd anticipated when we bought it, so all the more reason to make sure we love it.

Our kitchen reno is a fully DIY. We have invested around 1500 in CASH so far and found great deals...

for example, I just got a 419 dollar undermount sink for 104. I bought a 100+ pendant for over the the sink for 2.02 plus 24.99 shipping (ebay-they couldn't finish their remodel lack of funds)

We did our upstairs bathroom the same way. I also got an awesome deal on a stainless slide in range with cooktop due to a family just buying it new, keeping it about a month, then having to sell b/c one lost their job. We're talking 1600 stove for 350 bucks!

So our complete reno budget is 3000. I'm sure to those who have done the 20K kitches love them, but I guarantee I'll love mine just as much!

And we inherited this home from his parents , it's a 2400 square foot traditional two story, and after the kitchen we plan on doing flooring some time in the spring or summer.

So we don't have any mortgage payment. Our utilities include: power, direct tv (with internet).

No water bill...we're in the woods and have well water. I hope many others out there are as fortunate as us. I do really feel sorry for those losing money on their homes. I am a real estate agent, no longer practicing, but I can only image how hard many have been hit!

Here's another viewpoint - our remodel (I'm definitely not advocating pouring money into houses instead of investment, but, in retrospect, it does make me feel better about having spent what we did to get the pretty countertops...

I've been wondering about the impact of recession/depression like times and the impact on kitchen remodels. When I did mine four years ago it seemed to be in the midst of vast prosperity and excessive consumption. I think that is changing based on the content of postings here but I'm not exactly sure. It seems like there are fewer comments about $7000-$8000 fridges, 60" ranges, and mutiple dishwashers (but then again there are $10K window treatments)

Aside from getting good deals, I was wondering how people are researching their contractors and trades people to ensure they don't make a down payment and later end up with a bankrupt contractor and an incomplete kitchen remodel (aside from just doing the whole thing yourself).

We use trade people by word of mouth. If we like working with the electrician or plumber, we ask for recommendations on who to call for the tile job, etc.
Good people inside the industry seem to know who else is good. "So and so is good, but very expensive. Here is the name of someone who worked with So and So for many years. He is just as good but much cheaper - and faster."
Bingo!

We've had great luck doing it this way. We've always been thrilled with their work and have yet to have a bad experience. We have an old house and are always throwing money at it.

I got our contractor from servicemagic.com They are pretty good. You should check them out...they do all the background checking for you with no fee.