I checked and here are the prices of the propane and electric for my area.

Propane is 336.3 cents per gallon. Says it is a 13% change from last year. Not good to see though.

Electric is 19.5 cents per kilowatt-hour back in January. Unlucky for us most of the electric around here is from National Grid which doesn't read their meters good and has huge price changes per month.

The house is a little over 1900 sq ft. but will probably be around 1900 that we heat after you take out the non heating areas.

We haven't looked at the boilers yet. We plan on buying one reasonable priced but with good efficiency. We would like to keep it under $3K.

The house is new construction that is 1 1/2 stories. Half will have a 22' ceiling, the other half has a 13' ceiling on the second floor, and then normal ceilings under it.

We are in the northern part of NY up near Canada.

I did get a price quote a long time ago from the Radiant Company site. The plans have changed from what we had when I got the quote from them since we were going to have a slab but changed it to a crawl space. The tubing will be between the joists now and the house is a little bigger. They estimated back then around 50,000 BTU's/HR and 60,000 BTU output for a -20 degrees outside and a temperature of 70 degrees inside. I don't know if that information helps any. That is also for 3 heat zones.

I did a quick estimate of the sq. ft. and there will be less than 1779 sq ft. I didn't take out the areas under the showers, toilets, cabinets, or utility room.

I included a picture of what the house looked like last year. The picture is taken at the back end which will have 4 sets of sliding glass doors and 4 large windows above them.

This post was edited by reveriereptile on Fri, May 2, 14 at 10:45

If you select propane fuel for radiant heat, you definitely want a high eff model 95+% efficiency boiler. I would assume an electric boiler would be straight resistance heat which would be very expensive. Not sure what else is available for your location/climate in electric boilers and even if heat pump boilers would be a possible choice. Perhaps others on this forum can offer some suggestions.

But just based on the lean facts you have offered, here are my findings. Keep in mind, these numbers are to be used as a guide only for comparing operating costs. As expected, neither are cheap.

Cost per 100,000 btu of useable heat
Electric baseboard: $5.27
Propane: $3.87

IMO

Thank you for your help. It is expensive for the stuff around here. Most people around can't afford to put radiant in so it is hard to get advice.
With it being a new home and long winters around if we have to spend extra for a better heater we will. It is May now and this house we are in still needs the heat on.

reveriereptile,

The variables here are the cost of the source of the energy and the efficiency of the system.

If that system is forced air, or radiant heat it doesn't really matter that much (although some will argue that radiant will be more comfortable at lower temperatures).

What you want to pay close attention to is the efficiency of the boiler.

Since either source is expensive, be sure to maximize your insulation.

Also, consider an alternative backup source of heating. In the US folks using propane got hit with some crazy increases this year because of a shortage. If you have wood or pellet burner backup, you could ride out big swings in market prices.

A pellet or wood fired boiler? Or stoves?

May not be practical depending on age of homeowners. This takes some work.

At these operating costs, I just wonder about solar. I suppose not.

IMO

This post was edited by tigerdunes on Fri, May 2, 14 at 12:05

This past winter has been the worse that we have seen. The coldest it got was around -30 but with the wind chill it was even colder.
We may put in some type of heating system similar to my SILs. I'm not sure what it is she uses but it was cheap and would work good for an extra heat source incase it gets to cold. We do have a cousin that has a cathedral ceiling and radiant heating and they do fine with it.
We will definitely get a nice boiler with 95%+. Reading a bit more online we will want one.
The reasons we want the radiant heat is to help cut back on the heating costs during long winters and to not have dust blowing around. We have allergies and hate ducts. With the cathedral ceilings the radiant seems the best affordable option to help keep the heat near the floor and not blowing up to the ceilings. We will be installing reversible ceiling fans.
Just wasn't sure what type of boiler to use since I figured with the cost of the fuel sources that propane would end up costing more. I have no clue how much it takes to run the boiler per day. Once we get a chance we are going to talk with a friend that does heating and plumbing and go over the boilers with him. I'd just like to look into stuff ahead of time so we will waste less time. He has installed the systems before but not that often due to the area being mostly poor.

I don't see how radiant heating would cost less to operate than a forced air system. I suppose if you plan to walk around base foot then your feet will be warmer, but you will have the same problem of the warm air rising and being trapped at the top of the cathedral ceiling.

A well designed forced air system may do a better job of circulating the air and could be more efficient and comfortable.

How are you planning to cool the house?

I doubt they need AC for their location...upstate NY near Canadian border.

IMO

reveriereptile,

I'm not questioning your choice of radiant floor heat and it will probably be more comfortable than forced air with tall ceilings. I'm just pointing out that the only variables are the cost of the energy and the efficiency of the system. Radiant floor heat isn't going to be significantly less than other types of heat.

You can have a Manual J load calculation done on your home that will estimate the heating load given the size, design and insulation values. You can then use that to estimate the cost to heat your home.

I know wood or wood pellet burner (probably not boiler) can be some work, but it's a good standby in rural areas when power isn't reliable. And, as I mentioned, propane doubled in parts of midwest IF you could get it at all. Having a woodburner and a supply of dry wood can be a butt saver at -30 when the power goes out or the propane truck can't get to you.

For the AC we will just use window ACs and have outlets planned for them for the electrician to put in. It does have some hot days around here but we will have so many windows, sliding glass doors, and reversible ceiling fans we can use to help cool it down if we don't have the AC on.

One of our cousins just put in a pellet stove last year. I might be able to ask him about it and see how well it works for him. I do like the idea of having another heat source as back up.

We currently live with my in-laws and they have forced air and it is horrible. My FIL spent over $1K in one month for fuel to run it this past winter. We spend all winter with our allergies bothering us, the air being so dry, cold drafts, and everyone fighting to get over the register vent for the warm air to come out. We had a humidifier on most of the winter for our son and it still didn't help with the dryness.

Most pellet stoves these days require electricity to run the blowers and the auto feed auger. Some stoves have a battery backup.

If you're thinking about a pellet stove as a backup heat source specifically for when the power is out, keep this all in mind.

Use neither, go with an oil-fired boiler for your "conventional" source of heat. Propane and electric are far too expensive in that part of NYS. If you want to have very inexpensive heat and don't have access or ability (age etc.) to your own firewood, an anthracite coal boiler or stove is a great way to save money; usually substantially less $$ per btu delivered than pellets and less hassle.