Well, I can understand how frustrating this must be, but you are not responsible for her actions! It's a little different than being responsible for a child and teaching them right from wrong. If this is a big change in her behavior, it's likely dementia related; maybe talk with her dr.? The problem, of course, is that you don't want to humiliate her in public by checking for "things" in her purse.

I helped an elderly aunt who lived into her late 90's. She did not have dementia, but when I cleaned out her house after her death, I found 20 years supply of ketchup pouches, salt and pepper packets and napkins, all pilfered from restaurants. She had a million $$ in the bank.

Perhaps your mil can "misplace" her larger purse and downsize to something more manageable that won't hold her booty.

No, you aren't overreacting. Her behavior wouldn't be tolerated in a child, and you are right for calling her out on her actions. One thing I have never understood is stealing from someone else. I have never had a desire to take things that weren't mine, particularly if doing so would deprive someone else in some way. Shoplifting has never held any appeal for me. (I'm not saying I'm an angel - just that this particular vice is beyond my comprehension. I think I'd worry too much about karma coming back to bite me in the butt, to be honest!)

Has Mom always been this way? Is her petty theft getting worse? Do you think it's something that could possibly require a doctor's evaluation to determine if there are other difficulties developing with her mental processes?

I'm so sorry this is happening. I can understand how you must feel trapped between a rock and a hard place, but I absolutely do not blame you for feeling like you must now check her purse. (She could very well have hidden stashes of things in drawers and closets too.) Since she has proven herself to be untrustworthy, you are well within your rights to treat her like the child that her behavior dictates she is.

How old is she? Did you say earlier she was on a mental decline? If so, then that's what I'd chalk it up to unless this started years earlier. She could have Demential and honestly doesn't remember taking the things.

I'd talk to a doctor next time she has an appt. Don't take her out in public unless you're watching her like a hawk. And check her purse & drawers when she's not looking. :)

Yes and no. I'm not sure. I can't remember what you said about her mental status. She is an adult and she is responsible for her actions, not you. I think you can voice your thoughts regarding her actions, but that you might be pushing it a bit by making her take something back, looking through her purse, etc.

Sometimes senior adults regress and quiet honestly, they do act like children. It's like the roles reverse, they are the child, we are the parent. I think it's a pretty "iffy" situation, depending on her mental status. Sometimes you have to make allowances. Also I think some seniors "act out" - pushing the limits, so to say, because it is so hard for them to let go of their independence.

I'm sorry Goldie, I know I'm not much help and I really don't have much advice. I've dealt with childish behaviors with my grandmother (95, very beginning stages of dementia, she is in assisted living), but mainly her acting somewhat like a spoiled child. No stealing. If she is to where you could sit down and have an honest talk with her about her actions, quietly and calmly, I would tell her I did not approve of her actions, etc., etc., etc. But if she is having any mental issues, that might not even be possible. I also wonder if she is in some way trying to get attention? We have a geriatric assessment program here, that is really (in some ways), better than an elderly person's regular doctor. Here, that group works with the individual's doctor, but they assess mental health, etc. look at all meds the person is taking and how they could interact, etc. really a good program and very helpful with an elderly person. If you have something like that available to you, you might take her in for an assessment.

I'm sorry I'm not much help - I feel your pain!! I would also suggest that you enlist others to occasionally help out and let you get a bit of respite.

tina

Well, while I never condone stealing of any kind, I don't think you're the police either. I would let it go, expect the worse and also do agree about getting her checked next time she is at the doctors.
Caring for the elderly is different than for children and I think this is one area that clearly shows why.

Try to remember that her behavior is not a reflection on you. She is her own person and while her physical well being is in your care, she can still make her own decisions.
I would, however, state that stealing is not allowed in your home and that you will return anything she steals from a store.
I hope she is able to realize that being in your good graces is beneficial to her!

I don't know if she has always been like this. I know she has always been very very cheap. I packed her house and saw no evidence of petty theft but she gets out and about more with me than she did before she moved in. Thus more opportunity.

She has major short term memory loss and is on medication for it. Plus I'm feeding her a brain food diet. (OK, it's from Dr Oz but I figure it can't hurt,)

I bought her a wallet purse with a shoulder strap but with her short term memory loss, she does not identify the purse as hers. She constantly empties it out and puts her stuff back in her old and very shabby purse that can hold her "finds."

I have never stolen anything. I think it is bad karma too.

Did she by chance go through the depression? I have seen people who lived through that actually hoard food.

Stealing, of course, is wrong. I would try to figure out WHY she is doing it.

tina

If she's always, been cheap, chances are it's a continuation as well as opportunity in getting something for free. More than likely she feels since she, or you, paid for the meal, she's entitled to the jelly or anything else given out for free. As for the birthday party, the woman has a lot of guts and obviously doesn't care if she is seen putting favors in her purse. I there are more people that do this than we can imagine.

And speaking of cheap, DD's MIL is the epitamy of cheap! The woman is a widow, and her husband left her fairly well off, but you would think she's a pauper. We went out to dinner last Sat. for my SIL's B-day(her son),and she didn't even offer to pay for her his dinner. I was expecting her to, and didn't ask, but had it on my mind and felt I would offend her if *I* bought his dinner. That's the last time I'll be considerate of *her* feelings. We then went to a movie, and again thought she would get his ticket, and again she didn't . Some people are sooooo TIGHT, and since I'm not, it bugs the he** out of me! ;o)

Golddust, I am not laughing at you, but was laughing as I read the post. She's old and like some said, her mind is going. She sounds like a source of entertainment and not someone to be angry with.

My mom and one sister of mine have the bad habit of taking the jellies and sugars and whatever else they can fit in their purse. My mom was very poor so I guess that's where she started this behavior and I think my sister just feels like she's entitled. My sister embarrasses me because she's not old so there is no excuse for her behavior.
I do have to add, both my mom and sister are very nice tippers and spend money all the time on others.

Don't upset yourself over it and just keep an eye to make sure she doesn't lift something that will cause law enforcement to get involved. LOL

My, now deceased, mother-in-law would wrap up every leftover roll in the bread basket and actually ask for more butter and jellies to take home from a restaurant.

I found out this kind of behavior is more common then I thought.

One of the reasons you might now have to ask for the packets of Splendar (or the pink packets) is that so much is pocketed that its gotten expensive for restaurants to leave them available on the tables.

Taking sugar and jelly is so common. I think there are two separate thngs going on. The cheapness is something that she has had for a long time. It's part of who she is. I too, have people in my life who are cheap. They can well afford to chip for a dinner or give an appropriate gift. I often think that they must think that the recipient just doesn't know better or is just plain dumb. "This used or cheap or old gift is good enough for you!
What pops out at me and make me agree that she has a mental illness, is that she took party favors that were obviously someone elses, and then lied about it. A good medical check up is in order for her.
Good luck, you have your hands full.

This sounds to me like a medical problem. This is something you should discuss with her doctor. It's most probably related to short term memory loss, maybe to the medication she is taking.

I too was wondering if she's old enough that she lived through the depression and it's something related to that.

" She said she did not steal them, she just walked in the room (meaning my kitchen) and found them."

Goldy you said she has short term memory loss. Perhaps she was not lying.

I think calling her a liar and a thief is a bit harsh. She is elderly and has undergone a major life change (yes, I know you have as well, but still....).

I think what you have done for her is nothing short of amazing. I am much too selfish to open my home as you have. I am sorry you are having these problems.

I agree that taking the party favors does sound like it's due to mental decline. I had a wealthy aunt who was in the beginning stages of dementia with short term memory loss. I received a call one day from the manager of the supermarket where she shopped notifying me that she was banned from the store because she was caught trying to put a steak in her purse. Can you picture that with the styrofoam tray and all! She was always a frugal person, but I know in her right mind she would have been appalled at doing such a thing.

A friend of mine is dealing with her 91 year old mother now who has it pretty good health wise but who has become increasingly self centered and downright bratty at times. My friend talked to her friend who was a Geriatric MD before she retired, and she told her it was part of the aging process and not uncommon. None of this is easy to deal with. With your MIL's short term memory loss, you can talk til you're blue in the face, but she's not going to remember much, so try not to get yourself worked up about it. You can always insist she use a restroom before you leave places and offer to hold her purse and then check it. Or do it with a little humor at the table because you "don't want her to get stopped at the door because restaurants are cracking down on these things."

There is some humor to all this, but you're too close to see it right now. Someday... .

Her living here is working out fine. We've grown very attached to each other but this little business of her petty theft is annoying. I definitely know its basically harmless stuff but...

I have given her a tub of jelly with her breakfast whenever she has something with toast. Today she joked about having itchy fingers, referring to taking the jelly from the eatery.

She is a joy to be around if there is no mention of money (and there isn't). She is gracious and thankful to be here. She likes my cooking and doesn't miss being alone. I realize it could be so much worse than absconding with jelly and party favors. Lol. My house is big enough so we aren't under each others noses all the time and I have never felt resentment toward her for being here. It is just her darned petty theft!!

I will check her purse. Doesn't have to be in front of her but I carry it for her as it is too heavy for her to carry. She has a hard time with balance. Physical therapy is helping her build her core strength and I am trying to pare down the stuff she carries around in her purse.

Yes, it's frustrating but there's not much you can do about it. You can't change her but you can change yourself so perhaps it's time to just over look this incidents. Many times I've been with people who took jelly in the packets, sugar, etc. Hey I don't care. It's their problem. Just take the high road and stay in the positive. Who knows, someday someone may be saying the same things about us.

It's their problem ... not when Golddust is carrying MIL's purse ... Goldie will be the one caught with the loot!

Don't worry, we'll all chip in to cover your bail ;-)

Thanks, Chispa. I knew I could count on you.

If she's always, been cheap, chances are it's a continuation as well as opportunity in getting something for free. More than likely she feels since she, or you, paid for the meal, she's entitled to the jelly or anything else given out for free. As for the birthday party, the woman has a lot of guts and obviously doesn't care if she is seen putting favors in her purse. I there are more people that do this than we can imagine.

And speaking of cheap, DD's MIL is the epitamy of cheap! The woman is a widow, and her husband left her fairly well off, but you would think she's a pauper. We went out to dinner last Sat. for my SIL's B-day(her son),and she didn't even offer to pay for her his dinner. I was expecting her to, and didn't ask, but had it on my mind and felt I would offend her if *I* bought his dinner. That's the last time I'll be considerate of *her* feelings. We then went to a movie, and again thought she would get his ticket, and again she didn't . Some people are sooooo TIGHT, and since I'm not, it bugs the he** out of me! ;o)

If she's always, been cheap, chances are it's a continuation as well as opportunity in getting something for free. More than likely she feels since she, or you, paid for the meal, she's entitled to the jelly or anything else given out for free. As for the birthday party, the woman has a lot of guts and obviously doesn't care if she is seen putting favors in her purse. I there are more people that do this than we can imagine.

And speaking of cheap, DD's MIL is the epitamy of cheap! The woman is a widow, and her husband left her fairly well off, but you would think she's a pauper. We went out to dinner last Sat. for my SIL's B-day(her son),and she didn't even offer to pay for her his dinner. I was expecting her to, and didn't ask, but had it on my mind and felt I would offend her if *I* bought his dinner. That's the last time I'll be considerate of *her* feelings. We then went to a movie, and again thought she would get his ticket, and again she didn't . Some people are sooooo TIGHT, and since I'm not, it bugs the he** out of me! ;o)

You are right to keep an eye on the situation, it could be embarrassing and she needs to know you are on to her habit.

does she lose things and think someone stole from her ? my grandmother had that habit , as well as hoarding sugar pouches from restaurants. I used to shop with her and as we were paying for something in a store, there was a box of elastic bands in plain view and she asked the cashier if she could have some, I directed her out of there promptly.

As frustrating as it may be, I don't think her behavior is that odd considering her age. I had a wealthy aunt and uncle who were similar. They were very well off, could afford to live anywhere they wanted but chose instead to live in a cheap mobile home, furnished with things they'd had since I was a little girl. And when it came to taking things like condiments, they too saw nothing wrong with it. If we ate at a Chinese restaurant, all the condiments would go home with them; fortune cookies too.

I remember talking to my mother about it once and we thought part of it had to do with living through the depression, experiencing hunger or other hardships. Is it wrong? Absolutely. But they always seemed to have an excuse when they were doing it or a manipulative reason as to why it was justified so they didn't look bad. Of course feeling they had to justify it only proved they new it was wrong.

I wouldn't check her purse or even scold her, she is an adult after all and responsible for her actions. I would however start calling her on it when it's taking place. Before leaving the restaurants, if the jelly's are gone, just tell her to put them back, that she doesn't need them. If something is missing at a function or party, tell her to go get whatever it is and put it back. Don't ask her if she took it, just assume she did and tell her to return it, that she doesn't need it. "Need" being the operative word. I would also start asking her in an upbeat way to participate by paying for a meal here and there. Just say, I treated last time, this time it's your turn, you pay the bill, I'll cover the tip. Or something of that nature.

It's really a shame to experience this when you've put so much into helping her to feel safe and comfortable. You just need to show her that kind of stuff isn't necessary without demeaning her or treating her like a child. A Senior's worst fear is loosing the capacity to make their own choices or decisions. Treating her like a child will only justify those fears.

My mother never did this, but when she and my aunt would go on trips with the senior center, there were plenty of people on the trips who did. They brought zip-lock bags and put food in them. Some even took silverware, salt & pepper shakers, centerpieces from catered dinners, etc. It really is just frugalness, and since all of these seniors grew up during the depression, it's the "hoarder" mentality of worrying there won't be any more food. Some of the seniors were poorer and lived on a few hundered dollars social security only, but some were not and had brand new cars, paid in cash of course.

The director from the senior center had to keep telling them not to take food and would be on the lookout for plastic bags.

Whenver we have functions on campus, we "borrow" greenery from the campus greenhouse, but we've had people take them thinking they were "free." No, we get charged for the ones that are not returned. Last time it was actually not our senior adult alumni, but it was likely students' families.

Condiment theft is fairly common in the older crowd, from what I have seen. If it doesn't go beyond that, I wouldn't worry or scold her.

The other day my 86 year old MIL called her son over to her refrigerator and proudly showed him her collection of sauce packets from fast food restaurants. Before that it was sugar and artificial sugar packets . . . which she never uses. She won't use the sauces either.

Sounds like a few things going on.

I don't eat out much; but years ago (80's); I don't know many people that did not take the jelly that was given. I don't know why it was taken except enough for each piece was given & some didn't use it so someone always grabbed it. They figured it was included with the price.

With her & older people; it very well could be that buying their own jelly goes bad because they don't use it in time. I'm throwing out tons of food with my hub on the road. Seems every time I go to cook something; it's expired. I realize that she's now living with you; but habits are hard to stop. My ex-neighbor also takes Splenda. He doesn't make coffee at home; when he goes to McD's he grabs a few packs to put in his pocket in case he's at someone's house & they do not have Splenda (or whatever color packet he uses). Yeah; why doesn't he just buy a box? The box would go bad.

Depending on what she's taking & from where; I wouldn't worry about it. Smaller places that are more mom & pop; yes because you know it hurts them financially but larger places like McD's- I doubt it puts a dent in it. We don't buy McD's often but if we do; they don't even ask if you want sauce for the nuggets & if they do give; most do charge for extra if it's not enough. I wouldn't even worry about sugar packets; how many people don't use sugar these days or take black coffee?

Chinese never gives enough sauces; especially duck sauce. I'll leave the soy they give & exchange it for duck sauce. I've tried buying duck sauce in the store; not the same as what they give. I personally don't wipe them out but make sure I take enough for what I bought.

With things like fern table decorations; I think that's just changing times & they don't get out much. All of my life; if there was a function; they always had one person from each table take the piece home. These days it's not the same.

Taking the gift bags was out of line; if you do something like that again; keep them out of sight. You can also take her shopping with you to buy extra candy that she likes.

It's "funny" that this is pretty common that as they age; they seem to regress to kid behavior. I'm pretty sure my neighbor pocketed a few things when he stayed here; my favorite nail file that I've had for years that never seemed to wear away. The grit was also perfect. I can't find a similar one. It was a freebie marked woman's center; I caught it in his pocket once; wish I could remember what he told me other then he was still using it; I took it back; it disappeared again.

I've read through every post here, Golddust, and there is a lot of good solid advice for you. I'd just like to add one thing. You say that you have a very good relationship with your MIL, and she with you. I know that this is because of the kind, thoughtful person you are. Don't let this petty theft thing of hers drive a wedge between you two, because if it continues ~and it probably will to some degree~ it could easily fester and make life miserable for you all. You've committed to having her live in your home with you. I can totally understand your frustration with this petty theft, and I'm surely not condoning it, but I wouldn't treat her like a child, no matter what she does. You'll all feel better in the long run if you treat her as the adult she is, and deal with her little packet thefts with humor, kindness and calmness. I'd never use the words "thief" or "liar" to her or about her and I wouldn't demand to check her purse or chide her about it either. Perhaps it could just get "lost" one day and she'll be forced to carry a smaller one. In the whole grand scheme of things, your life with your MIL seems pretty pleasant. Keep it that way by not allowing this to become a big issue.
Lynn

Great advice from everyone. Thank you all. I guess theft of any kind is a hot button issue with me. I'm the person who only tastes a grape if I fully intend to buy the bunch. It is the way I was raised. Guess I have to let it go.

Clearly, I WAS reacting. Lol.

At restaurants you could just hand the server the little racks that all these items are in after enough has been taken out for your meal.

When the server is there, just say casually, "Would you mind taking these away to give us more room on the table. Thank you." The server will likely remove them with no further comment. Problem solved.

Or if that fails just pick the items up yourself and set them on another nearby table, but out of reach.

Even if your MIL protests, just stay with the idea of making the table look less cluttered and more graciously appointed.

I have read that one of the keys to managing to co-exist (and keep your own equanimity and sanity) with any kind of dementia or mental decline is to deeply understand that the person isn't doing the (annoying) thing on purpose in the same way you might assume that a non-affected person might be. So avoid tactics involving blame, shame, commentary, reasoning, pleading, demanding, etc. Instead, manage the problems by avoiding them proactively where possible.

Remove the thing likely to picked up and stuffed in her purse at restaurants or other social gatherings. If you must look in her purse, do it discretely and just return the inappropriate things quietly.

Reacting by asserting that she is a liar and thief will likely make the situations more frequent and worse. Perhaps even prompt her to act out any unspoken, and unacknowledged, resentment she may have about the necessary change in her circumstances that has resulted in her coming to live with you. Don't expect, or demand, perfect behavior, just avoid or limit the predictable "occasions for sin" that will make you nuts.

HTH
L.

My mother died a year or so ago, leaving me more or less in charge of my 84 year old father - who is also cheap. Very, very cheap. I think it is at least partially related to growing up in the depression, and being a poor farmer's kid at that time.

He is no longer poor. Both he and my mom were hard workers, and while they are in no way wealthy...he has enough money to life comfortably for the rest of his life.

He also used to be a really good cook. He likes good food. Yet at this point in his life, he is subsisting on the crappiest microwave dinners from the DOLLAR STORE. It blows my mind. We've tried to get him to come out to dinner with us for local fish fries (which he used to love), but he would rather eat his dollar store frozen dinner. He mentions the cost of everything, and listened to a smoke detector beep for DAYS because he thought a replacement 9 volt battery cost too much.

I repeatedly tell him to SPEND HIS MONEY and enjoy his life. But he is really set in his ways on this one and I don't see him changing.

I get where you are coming from, but based just on the little bit I've read here.....I think you're probably beating your head against a brick wall on this one. :) I'd let it go, as much as you can anyway....

Excellent, sound advice from Liriodendron! I think her solutions give you the opportunity to respond to the situation with compassion and grace.

Bless you, Gold!