Glad to see you took the advice given regarding thermostat choice and "H" model.

Another thing you want is the tin-plated coil in the Carrier/Bryant air handler; it will be FV4BNF005T00 (note the T). These coils are more resistant to corrosion.

For the Bryant, you raise the SEER efficiency by using the FV4BNF006T00 air handler. If you can fit the big Trane air handler, this one will be no issue in fitting.

You're looking at all good units. The first Bryant is not a 2-stage unit though, just single stage. If you want the Evolution unit I would suggest the 288ANA048. The 286ANA048 is not bad but I prefer the scroll compressor since the 286ANA must stop to switch stages and this adds wear/tear on the compressor in my opinion.

I'm sure I've only added to your confusion, but you want to do this right and you want to make sure you get the best possible system.

With that said, I am partial to Trane units and the XL15i's performance specs are almost the same as those of the Bryant. I really think Trane makes a good product in the XL15i, and it has one of the best outdoor coils on the market (spine fin). I would take the XL15i if it were my decision, and your price is well within reasonable range. One thing to consider is Honeywell's VisionPRO IAQ thermostat which can control blower speed for dehumidification. If you get that make sure your dealer is familiar with it since it's not a basic thermostat. Also may want to consider a 4" pleated media filter.

Feel free to print out what I've suggested above if you'd like, to give to your contractor, since I understand for the average homeowner the details can get overwhelming. You are in a better position than most customers by getting the information necessary to make the right decision.

Thx Ryanhughes.

I asked the dealer about the Honeywell Vision PRO IAQ, but he did not seem to know. He said it probably was same as XL-900. But I will check again.

The Trane is $1000 cheaper than the 1st option and $500 cheaper than the 2nd option. Is that normal ? Are these systems really comparable?

I do have the quotes for the Evolution HP, but that system is $1000 more than the first option also. Do you think it is worth the investment?

"I asked the dealer about the Honeywell Vision PRO IAQ, but he did not seem to know. He said it probably was same as XL-900. But I will check again."

- In a way it is, but the TCONT900 is just specialized for Trane's communicating systems. The 900 is the IAQ with Trane's proprietary ComfortLink II control. You'd want the IAQ from Honeywell which does essentially the same tasks with regards to humidity control. If you don't get it, the 800 is still a nice stat and I have the Honeywell version of it and love it.

"The Trane is $1000 cheaper than the 1st option and $500 cheaper than the 2nd option. Is that normal ? Are these systems really comparable?"

- Fairly comparable systems, usually Trane tends to be higher than Carrier/Bryant though.

"I do have the quotes for the Evolution HP, but that system is $1000 more than the first option also. Do you think it is worth the investment?"

- I don't think so. I'll take a good, properly-sized single stage system with a good thermostat any day. 2-stage is nice, but is more for comfort and similar results can be achieved with good single-stage equipment.

So as of right now I'd be looking at the 265ANH042 with FE4A/FV4B air handler (with T6 or Evolution controller) or the 4TWX5042 with 4TEE air handler (with IAQ thermostat or 800).

So we are back to my original question in this post, based on the functionality, efficiency and price which of the three should I go for ?

md

First off, Carrier's Performance 15 and Bryant's Preferred 15 are basically identical and one of the best single stage condensers on the market. Yes, it is sgl stage not two stage as your post states. Depending on one's area/climate should dictate whether the heat enhanced "H" version would be beneficial and certainly I would recommend it for Maryland.

Now to your quotes.

#2 I would toss in the trash. An Evolution air handler without the Evolution controller is a waste.

If budget consideration is not an overiding concern, then I like quote #1 the best. The Preferred 15 "H" version-
Bryant 265ANH042+FE4BNF005+UI+20KW - $6800 includes the Evolution air handler and Evolution control. Verify this with your dealer. That would be my choice.

as far as Trane quote, it is a nice system. Substitute the HW VisionPro IAQ stat for the XL800. Trane stats are a very weak link in their product line. If you elect Trane , dealer must verify that the 65 air handler will fit. It is very large. Also, this Trane XL15i configuration is the only one that qualifies for the tax credit.

If you want a comparison to the Trane, then ask Bryant dealer to quote the Preferred 15 with Performance var speed air handler and Bryant thermidistat. It should be at least $1K less expensive without the Evolution air handler/controller.see below.

1169036 Active Systems PREFERRED 15 PURON HP BRYANT HEATING AND COOLING SYSTEMS 265ANH042-B FV4BN(B,F)005 42000 13.00 15.00 42000 9.00 26600

what size is your existing heat strip? I think a 20 KW is too large and would suggest two 7.5 KWs and have them staged. This will save you in operational costs on those cold and extra cold days.

are you doing anything about an air filter cabinet or just using 1" filters on central return(s)?

insist on a new properly sized refrigerant lineset-save the old and sell it for scrap.

I do not think the Evolution HP is worth it unless you are having zoned systems/controls installed and you are not.

let me know if you have any questions.

IMO
Good Luck!

Tiger, THx.

"2 I would toss in the trash. An Evolution air handler without the Evolution controller is a waste."

I think you misread the #2 quote. It is for Perferred 15 HP "H" model, with Preferred air handler with the T6 (prog) thermostat

"If budget consideration is not an overiding concern, then I like quote #1 the best. The Preferred 15 "H" version-
Bryant 265ANH042+FE4BNF005+UI+20KW - $6800 includes the Evolution air handler and Evolution control. Verify this with your dealer. That would be my choice"

I did verify it (and have it in writing)

"as far as Trane quote, it is a nice system. Substitute the HW VisionPro IAQ stat for the XL800. Trane stats are a very weak link in their product line. If you elect Trane , dealer must verify that the 65 air handler will fit. It is very large. Also, this Trane XL15i configuration is the only one that qualifies for the tax credit."

Dealer has verified that the Air handler will fit. On the Honeywell stat, the dealer told me that the Trane warranty may be void if using with non-trane eqpt. Is that your experience ?

"If you want a comparison to the Trane, then ask Bryant dealer to quote the Preferred 15 with Performance var speed air handler and Bryant thermidistat. It should be at least $1K less expensive without the Evolution air handler/controller.see below."

I already have that, see quote #2 in my post. It is $500 more expensive than Trane and $500 cheaper than preferred HP + evolution AHU/stat. Note Trane's ratings are quite close to the others as below (but costs quite diff):

Option #1 (15.5/13/9) == US$ 6800/-
Option #2 (15/13/9) == US$ 6432/-
Option #3 (15/12.5/9) == US$ 5890/-

"what size is your existing heat strip? I think a 20 KW is too large and would suggest two 7.5 KWs and have them staged. This will save you in operational costs on those cold and extra cold days."

I do not know the existing, but there is wiring going into my AHU for 20KW, so I presume it is 20KW. They are giving me 20KW (2 stage), should I ask it to be lowered to 15KW (2 stage)?

"are you doing anything about an air filter cabinet or just using 1" filters on central return(s)?"

There is no space for air filter cabinet, so I am usinig 1" filters.

"insist on a new properly sized refrigerant lineset-save the old and sell it for scrap."

None of the dealers agreed for a new line set as I have a finished basement. They all say that cleaning with R11 and nitrogen and pressure testing is suuficient and they do that on a regular basis. My line is a 7/8 inch single tubing. How do you recomment I go about it?

look fwd to your comments.

md

you are correct. too much coffee this AM. I did misread #2 quote. I would elect the #3 Trane quote over the #2 Bryant quote based on the price difference alone.

"Dealer has verified that the Air handler will fit. On the Honeywell stat, the dealer told me that the Trane warranty may be void if using with non-trane eqpt. Is that your experience?"

Total hogwash. Trane stats are a POJ and the HW VP IAQ has the "dehumidify on demand" feature which you do want. I would not have the Trane system without it. In fact, I would strike it off the list because of what the dealer said which is not truthful. One nice feature though about the XL15i is their "electronic demand defrost" which eliminates unnecessary defrost calls.

#1 quote is still my first choice. The Evolution air handler with matching Evolution controller is simply the best available on the residential mkt.

As far as new lineset goes, flushing is fine as long as existing lineset is the correct size for new system. If it is not, you will not reach performance/eff ratings. Verify with dealer existing size and Bryant recommendation for a 3 1/2 ton Preferred 15 HP. You don't want to cripple a new system.

You do want the heat strip staged whether 20KW or 15KW. Ask dealer what size you currently have. He'll know.You do want this staged-either two 10s or two 7.5s. Keep in mind that as long as outside HP condenser is operating, it produces alone about 27 KBTUs at 17 deg fah temperature.

20KW yields 68 KBTUs
15KW yields 51 KBTUs

what is your heating load based on what outside design temp?

you are just about there. let me know if you have questions.

IMO
Good Luck!

I am not sure on the heating load. How do I find that out?

Also when the Aux heat comes on, does the HP still pump in heat at that time ? I always thought that when the Aux heat comes on, the HP stops operating ! I seem to be incorrect!

md
"I am not sure on the heating load. How do I find that out?"

ask dealer to perform a Manual J heat/cool load calc. get it in writing. a properly performed man j takes a couple of hours to perform. well worth it. this will verify that 3 1/2 ton condenser is correct size plus it will guide you on sizing for heat strips.

There are only three reasons a dealer will refuse:
1.does not know how..
2.lazy
3.does not give a XXXX about his customer

HP condensers produce some heat even at low temps.
The AHRI numbers say that the Bryant Preferred 15 "H" mdl produces about 27 KBTUs at 17 degrees. Aux or supplenmental heat will engage to make up the difference needed to keep your home warm. that is why I suggested staged backup strips. Now if you have a mechanical issue with outside HP condenser in heating mode, you switch stat to emergency heat setting until outside unit can be repaired.

OK?

IMO

md

any update on your decision?

TD

Hi md

I just got 3 quotes for the same Trane system.

TRANE
XL15i 4TWX5042A 3.5 TON 42,000 BTU SEER: 15, EER: 12.50
4TEE3F65B Air Handler, BAYHTR1415BRKB 15W Heater, TCON800
Quote Range -- $7900 to $8300

Live in North Texas,
all electric 2,000 sq.ft. two story house (Built in 1983).

Original Carrier 38EN042300 3.5 TON, 42,000 BTU
lasted 26 Years..... R.I.P.

Question: You got a Trane Quote of $5890?
Wow! Is this real or a typo?

You are correct. That was the quote I got and it was not a typo! and it was with a 10 yr manufacturer labor warranty. Things are quite competetive now. Looks like Trane has some catching up to do in terms of efficiencies etc to make-up for the Federal tax credit (this system qualifies though the air handler is much bigger in size), so they are offering some great discounts to get customers.

You can alternately also look at the other 2 systems mentioned in my post above. I went for the carrier exact-equivalent of the first system for $ 6450 (w/o extended labor warranty). It is a great system. I would recommend it to anyone.

Tiger:

I apologise for not replying earlier. I went for the carrier equivalent of the first system. I think it is a GREAT system. I think Carrier underplays the capabilities of their performance series of HP. It can communicate digitally and be controlled bythe Infinity controller just like the infinity HP ( except it is single stage). maybe they want to push the Infinity HP and so they underplay the performance series.

Thanks for your guidance.

md

several questions.

you purchased a 3 1/2 ton Performance 15 "H" mdl version with Infinity air handler and Infinity controller?

Price was $6450? Before or after all rebates and fed tax credit?

what size heat strip? is it staged as recommended?

new lineset? if not, size was verified and lineset was flushed?

The Performance 15 "H" mdl paired with Infinity air handler/controller is a great system and I agree that Carrier really does not know what they have with this particular model. And yes, clearly Trane is falling behind in performance/efficiency numbers. I suspect they are suffering in sales because of the tax credit.

IMO

Tiger:

Actually, I did not go for the "H" mdl. I checked through multiple factory authorized dealers, but the "H" mdl for 31/2 tons was not being stocked in my area. They stocked for some other sizes that did not qualify for the tax credit as the "H" mdl gave higher efficiencies. Yes it was with Infinity Air handler and UI.

$6450 before Tax credit.

Heat strip 20KW staged

Lineset - reused, size verified and flushed with Nitrogen.

md

that's too bad about the "H" model. It certainly would have been a better choice for your area/climate plus it would have easily paid for itself with the higher HSPF eff rating.

I'm not certain why Carrier has not figured this out with feedback from their dealer network.

IMO