Ric

What is location?

In heat pumps, brand does matter.

there are three equally important components-quality and correctly sized HVAC, the install by dealer, and probably the most overlooked and disregarded is the ductwork system.

these are my minimum specs for a new HP system. both outside and inside units should be replaced to have a properly matched system.

15 SEER, 12.5+ EER, 9 HSPF
best matching VS air handler
full BTUs in both cooling and heating for your rated size
R-410a refrigerant(same as Puron)
scroll compressor preferred
electronic demand defrost preferred
thermostat with "dehumidify on demand" feature
staged backup heat strips
new and correctly sized refrigerant lineset
10 yr warranty compressor and parts

you want a thorough inspection of your ductwork system. size, overall condition, supply and return lines, insulation qualities, leak test, etc.

any hot/cold spot issues in your home should be addressed.

I like Carrier/Bryant, Trane/AmStd, Rudd/Rheem.

I would only use authorized dealers for the various brands that provide quotes. see mfg websites. I prefer small independent dealers where owner is actively involved in the daily operation of the business.

IMO

Double post....

This post was edited by tigerdunes on Sun, Apr 7, 13 at 22:14

"I believe all techs are trained/experienced enough to install correctly."

If this statement were true, then there would no reason to have this forum.

mike_home - you're right :-)
location is Oregon

Tigerdunes:

Everything I've been quoted are matched units whether they be carrier, am std, trane, lennox or goodman.
I've only had one company measure the rooms, windows etc to do a load test to confirm that my existing 3ton hp is the correct size. I'm wondering if that might be a deciding factor if this company is equal, in my opinion, with the others. No other company insisted on measuring, they all asked me if I'd had any issues with the current system, cold spots, how's my insulation, had I had a leak test etc but did not insist on coming in.

as to these specs:
R-410a refrigerant(same as Puron)
scroll compressor preferred
electronic demand defrost preferred
thermostat with "dehumidify on demand" feature
staged backup heat strips
new and correctly sized refrigerant lineset
10 yr warranty compressor and parts

the only 2 I'm not sure of are scroll compressor preferred
electronic demand defrost preferred and I will check on that. we are flushing the lines, not a new lineset at this point.

As to installation expertise I have read reviews and do have some references I've checked, and one company said they're techs have NATE training?
Is there any other way I can be sure techs know what they're doing? I'm not sure there is.
All companies have been in biz for a long time,good bbb ratings, good reviews on Angie's list and half have been referred to me by one friend or colleague, plus my own experience with several for maintenance issues on my heat pump.

I was thinking of calling a hvac in another city that would have no 'dog in the fight' since they'd be at least an hour away and see what they would tell me.

Thanks everyone, in advance.

Lineset if reused must be the correct size to manufacturer spec for condenser purchase. Close does not count!

I am a big believer in EDD. Electronic demand defrost eliminates/reduces unnecessary, nuisance, and costly defrost calls which also can contribute to wear and tear on reversing valve.

There are only a few brands/models that have this feature.

Look for a small shop that is authorized dealer for brand being installed and an owner that is involved in the daily operation of the business. No big box store or mega chain dealer. Dealer should have some history in the business and a good reputation in the community he serves. NATE is nice but certainly not a deal breaker. Ask around-friends, neighbors, and people at work. There is always Angie's list and BBB.

IMO
Good Luck!

I agree with the comment of mike_home stated below:

"I believe all techs are trained/experienced enough to install correctly."

If this statement were true, then there would no reason to have this forum.

In my personal experience, not all techs will give you the right specs you need. In my case, I was told that there is small crack on the heating exchange. I was given 3 options: 1) to replace blower motor; 2) to change the heat pump; 3) to replace the furnace (heating and cooling). No inspection was made as to the ductwork. I believe that when an estimate is give especially for a new furnace system, the ductwork should be considered. In the case of small crack on the heating exchange, why was I given the option to replace blower motor? what does blower motor has to do with the heat exchanger? Hence, I believe, techs especially who does yearly maintenance will always find something to sell you something. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I believe, we need forum like this who could give advise/comments without bias.

It is a good sign that a tech has a NATE certification. The question is will his management give him the tools, training, time, and materials to to do a quality installation? There are HVAC companies who will quote a low price and then cut corners in order to make a profit.

Finding a company who will do a good installation is the most difficult part of buying an HVAC system. You have to learn how to interview the installer by asking the right questions. If you don't get acceptable answers, then you know he is not the right contractor.

And the right questions are? :-) Unfortunately, some of the people I've talked to may not be the installer, or they used to be but now they're the sales guy so even knowing the right questions may not be helpful unless I can talk to the installer.

but if someone would be kind enough to give me a few questions and what answers I should expect it would be greatly appreciated.
thanks

Here is the latest estimate I received. I'm not sure if I believe the math (spring discount, costco cash card, state/fed) as 'discounts' to tell me my "true investment" is only $8243. I'm asking directly what I pay them, $8243 or the $10,793. comments?

Installation Includes:
Professional, complete installation by trained, experienced, NATE Certified technicians
All required permits and inspections
Removal and proper disposal of old system
New refrigerant line or flush and test of existing line
All electrical work performed by licensed electrician
Relocation of electrical disconnect box for heat pump
10 year parts warranty
10 year labor warranty
No repair expense for 10 years
2 year annual service plan included
Honeywell Vision-Pro touch-screen thermostat
Seal register boots as they come up through the floor
Easy access 4 inch filter located above furnace in garage
Lennox Deluxe System
Lennox Elite Series 3 Ton Heat Pump
XP 14 Model number
15 SEER Cooling Efficiency
9.00 HSPF Heating Efficiency
CBX27 Variable Speed Air Handler
$10,793 Initial Total
-$800 Spring instant Discount
-$1000 Costco Cash Card
-$450 State Tax Credit
-$300 Federal Tax Credit
$8243 True Investment

Here is the latest estimate I received. I'm not sure if I believe the math (spring discount, costco cash card, state/fed) as 'discounts' to tell me my "true investment" is only $8243. I'm asking directly what I pay them, $8243 or the $10,793. comments?

Installation Includes:
Professional, complete installation by trained, experienced, NATE Certified technicians
All required permits and inspections
Removal and proper disposal of old system
New refrigerant line or flush and test of existing line
All electrical work performed by licensed electrician
Relocation of electrical disconnect box for heat pump
10 year parts warranty
10 year labor warranty
No repair expense for 10 years
2 year annual service plan included
Honeywell Vision-Pro touch-screen thermostat
Seal register boots as they come up through the floor
Easy access 4 inch filter located above furnace in garage
Lennox Deluxe System
Lennox Elite Series 3 Ton Heat Pump
XP 14 Model number
15 SEER Cooling Efficiency
9.00 HSPF Heating Efficiency
CBX27 Variable Speed Air Handler
$10,793 Initial Total
-$800 Spring instant Discount
-$1000 Costco Cash Card
-$450 State Tax Credit
-$300 Federal Tax Credit
$8243 True Investment

If all things are created equal as to expertise etc. Ask yourself who can I trust in my home without me being there.?

Will the person that you are dealing with now be on site when the installation is being done?

Can they provide a criminal record clearance for all employees entering your home?

If they can't or won't they are not the people to trust in your home.

How long has each employee been under their employ?

All Home Depot Installation Service personal must have a current clear criminal record clearance to be on, not merely enter a customers property.

There are exceptions of course, a 18 year old caught in possession of a joint in 1973 with nothing since may be employed by HD after consideration from the regional manager.

I use Home Depot only as an example of what service providers are doing in todays society. They tell the story of a new Install service guy who's clearance had not come in yet, he stole the contractors truck with a few thousands in tools in it the first morning.

Something to consider.

And the right questions are? :-) Unfortunately, some of the people I've talked to may not be the installer, or they used to be but now they're the sales guy so even knowing the right questions may not be helpful unless I can talk to the installer.

but if someone would be kind enough to give me a few questions and what answers I should expect it would be greatly appreciated.
thanks

The person visiting the home needs to be able to answer the customer's questions. If he or she cannot then you need to find another contractor.

Here are some basic questions you can ask:

How long have you been in business?
Are you insured and licensed to install HVAC systems?
How many trucks and employees do you have?
Are you a factory authorized dealer for the equipment you sell?
Will you do a load calculation before signing a contract?
Will you show me the load calculation and explain the results?
Will you review the duct work to determine if it is the proper size?
Will you quote several configurations of equipment and explain the benefits and costs?
Will your quote provide the model numbers of all the equipment and services you propose to provide?
Will you file for the required permits?
What are the terms of the warranty and is it backed by the manufacturer?
Will you register the equipment for the warranty?
Are there any manufacturer's rebates and who will receive the funds?

Mike_home: the good news is I've asked most of those questions and the ones I haven't I will now. I appreciate it. I need to make a decision as my wife is not enjoying the no heat option anymore :-)

Ric

The Costco quote is ridiculously high.

And I do not recommend purchasing HVAC from a big box store like Costco.

The CBX27 is not a variable speed air handler as quote states. It is a high eff air handler not variable speed.

Not a fan of Lennox Heat Pumps. The XP14 model does not have EDD.

IMO

This post was edited by tigerdunes on Wed, Apr 10, 13 at 9:59

Tiger dunes - I agree - I even got them to take $500 off but it was still higher and I could not see the value in their quote compared to the others I got. I went with another company and they'll installl tomorrow. I'm a little concerned about the flushing of my 35 year old existing lines but I have no indication there's anything wrong with them. Pipes are under the cement garage floor. No easy way to repipe, but we have a plan B to repipe if necessary.

What did you decide on?

Goodman 15 SEER hp and matching air handler,multispeed, and r410 refrigerant. I have the model numbers SSZ140361b, ASPF313716E.

Good luck, you may need it...

Thanks. and thanks for the advice.

Got the new heat pump and air handler installed on Thursday. All went well with the pipe flushing. We have heat! So far so good.