You might try making a rice flour starter and making gluten-free sourdough bread (see link below for information and recipes). And best wishes if you can successfully meet this challenge. Please keep us posted.

I've looked at this naturally-leavened bread several times but dismissed it due to the high-glycemic flours needed for the bread (something else we have tried to eliminate).

Honestly, I no longer care for "bread" and really don't miss it. I'd rather have a sandwich made with Romaine lettuce, a wrap using Bibb lettuce, or a corn tortilla roll-up.

I make really thin cornbread (recipe from "The No-Gluten Cookbook" edited by Kimberly A. Tessmer, R.D., L.D.) and use it sliced and grilled for sandwiches. "Sandwich Rounds" (no yeast) from "Cooking for the Specific Carbohydrate Diet" by Erica Kerwien are pretty good. Arepas (made with P.A.N. corn flour) are another yeast-free bread substitute I make occasionally.

Dense, yeast-free loaves made with almond flour or a mix of almond flour and coconut flour are used primarily for making French toast, croutons and bread crumbs.

I use this microwave "bread" for toast and keep slices in the freezer.

GLUTEN-FREE CURRANT BREAD
(adapted from: "One Minute Muffins" - https://sites.google.com/site/hlhtrecipes/home/one-minute-muffin?tmp)

In a 2-cup glass measuring cup (or small bowl), with a rotary (non-electric) egg beater (you can also use a fork but the rotary egg beater does a better job), mix together:
1 egg
1 t. water
2 t. sweetener (I use raw honey, agave nectar, or coconut nectar
2 T. homemade kefir (buttermilk, milk, nut milk or coconut milk would also work)

Add and mix well:
2 T. all-purpose gluten-free flour (nearly any kind will work)
2 T. almond flour
2 T. g-f oatmeal
pinch of salt

Stir in 2 T. currants (can omit for a plain bread)

Spray a 4-1/4-inch (2-cup) glass ramekin (or other microwave-proof container of similar size) with vegetable spray. Add batter. Microwave 2-minutes on High. Remove from the microwave and turn the bread out of the ramekin onto a wire cooling rack and allow to cool.

When completely cool I slice it into bread "rounds". I use lids from different containers as a cutting guide so I can slice even slices. I place the bottom of the "bread" on the lid (top of the lid is down) and use the lip of the lid as a guide for my long serrated bread knife. For really thin slices I use a 1/4-inch lid from a large cottage cheese or yogurt container (these must be toasted in a toaster oven to keep them flat). I have other lids from other containers that are deeper when I want thicker bread rounds (great for poached eggs or eggs Benedict).

-Grainlady

Here is a link that might be useful: Cultures for Health

Traditional soda breads do not use yeast. But not sure how that would translate.
No rise, just straight into the oven. Not sure how that would translate to please the boys.
Must be a recipe out there using soda methods with citrus, not using yeast and gluten- free.

Like grainlady, i don't miss breads much when we take a break from them. But with boys i would search for a replacement method and hope someone may chime in.

If you find a good recipe, make sure your ingredients are from a good source that does not possibly have trace contaminants that could cause your troubles. Don't want to suggest a food trial, but maybe try the same recipe with baking soda,(fresh can), citrus method and one with your yeast to make sure it is actually the yeast. But i'm sure you are studied and can easily detect that.

Like suggested, you might find a wrap style soft flat bread even better.

It certainly sounds like you might have a yeast sensitivity. What else is in the bread that is okay for you? Are you sure gluten is the issue at all? Are you okay with other things that have incidental gluten in them, but no yeast? Or you might have both.

Are the components of baking powder listed on the ingredients of the bread you're okay eating? Some of the following: monocalcium phosphate, sodium bicarbonate, tartaric acid, sodium aluminium sulfate, sodium acid pyrophosphate? Eggs? You can stabilize eggwhites enough with a little salt to lift a soft dough with nice, small air pockets, though gluten free it'll probably be very crumbly. Are there any other conditioners and stabilizers in there?

I found this blog about baking gluten free breads while researching for a family member (who eats a lot of tortillas) who has Celiac disease. I haven't done more than read through it--haven't tried the recipes--but it looks promising.

Here's another blog post on the subject of gluten in yeast. Short answer is that normal commercial baking yeast does not naturally contain gluten. On the other hand, I know from my research that unless it says "gluten free" on the packaging, the makers haven't guarded it against incidental contamination. Most people use yeast with glutenous grains, so if a speck of flour got in from floating by in the air, it wouldn't do any harm--except possibly to people with extreme sensitivities. (I know someone who has serious reactions to levels of egg too microscopic to be included on ingredients labels.)

Grainlady's advice to try making your own is good. All kinds of info on culturing your own starters and yeasts is available here, on the 'net, and in serious bread books.

Bob's Red Mill and Red Star (and I'm sure others), sell yeast labelled gluten free. I linked the Red Star because it comes in standard packets. The Bob's says it must be refrigerated.

One other thing to rule out is the suggestion factor, though from what you've outlined, it sounds likely that it really is yeast itself that's the problem. People can get a pick me up from caffeine free coke, if they think it's classic (caffeine is bitter, but some people aren't sensitive to the taste). Your kids might experience a soft, airy crumb and have a reaction because they're (or their bodies are) expecting a reaction. If you're nervous about it (which would be natural since you're working so hard to find what works and nourish them well with enjoyable foods), it might also cue them that they are supposed to have a reaction. You can counter this by making a game out of it, and starting them on small squares of magic special bread. Make canapes or something, and not have it be the whole meal. Just a taste. If that works, repeat it a few times. Then a whole piece of toast, etc., and work your way up to a full sandwich, checking for signs of reactions along the way. It's easier to reprogram your kids than yourself. If it is suggestion, and if they're reaction free, you'll relax and be able to reprogram yourself.

Unfortunately, you can stretch gluten without yeast, and you can use yeast to kind of stretch things without gluten, but if you can't have either, you're probably best off trying all the suggestions for bread substitutes.

Thanks. I guess there will be a lot of playing around or just paying the price for the store bought stuff. I do corn tortillas but they do not hold up so well for school lunches. We react to so many things I have to admit I am having a hard time figuring it all out. Oh well, just keep documenting everything and paying attention is all I can do.
I will try the nut bread for weekends as the school is nut-free. Thanks. I will tackle a new technique tomorrow.

Amazon has Bob's Red Mill GF yeast on sale right now - but it's an "add-on" so you have to order $25 worth of other stuff to get it.

Here is a link that might be useful: BRM yeast on Amazon

cookie8-

What other foods do you avoid? That would be helpful.

There are lots of coconut flour recipes that might work for you, if you can use it. The problem with coconut flour (at least on my tight budget) is the huge number of eggs you need.

America's Test Kitchen just released "The How Can It Be Gluten Free Cookbook". There is a yeast-free "Cheddar Cheese Bread" recipe that looks tasty, and looks like a "normal" loaf, but you have to use ATK gluten-free flour mix: white rice flour, brown rice flour, potato starch, tapioca starch, non-fat dry milk powder (recipe in the book).

Have you tried making "flour" tortillas using an all-purpose g-f flour? There is a recipe in "Gluten-Free on a String" by Nicole Hunn if you are interested.

-Gluten-Free Bisquick may have some recipes.

-Mary's Gone Crackers - Crackers and sunflower butter, cheese or hummus to dip them in.

-Rice cakes and apple butter, cheese, or sunflower butter.

-Any casserole, soup, or gluten-free pasta favorites in a Thermos.

-Apple slices with sunflower butter.

-Yogurt with granola.

-Commercial or homemade energy bars.

-Veggies, hummus or cottage cheese.

-Ham or sausage and cheese gluten-free muffins.

-Grainlady

Here is a link that might be useful: coconut flour recipes

We avoid dairy, most legumes (can handle black beans and adzuki), soy, gluten, isolates and keep sugars/sweeteners, nightshades on rotation basis. We do well with tapioca/potato starch flours, so-so on the others (rice, sorghum, etc - it seems to depend on the source maybe) or else it is the yeast. Not sure.
Wow, now I'm feeling depressed. Kidding, we are used to it now and feel better for it. I don't do coconut flour but my kids are fine with it so I can use it. The egg thing is the killer with it though, like you mentioned. Thanks. I will check out that book, especially if it will give a few money saving tips.

cookie8-

Thank you for the list. That will help a lot. I actually have a friend who is on an even more restricted diet (being treated by medical professionals at a clinic), but food was literally killing him.

Have you tried the flaxseed breads? There are a lot of recipes on-line.

Source: "Wheat Belly 30-Minute (or less!) Cookbook" by William Davis, M.D.

FLAXSEED WRAP BAKING MIX
2 c. ground golden flaxseeds
1 t. aluminum-free baking powder
1-1/2 t. onion powder
1 t. garlic powder
1/2 t. sea salt
Whisk together. Store in an airtight container, preferably in the refrigerator.

Per 1/2 c.: 123 calories, 6 g. protein, 9 g. carbohydrates, 9 g. total fat, 8 g. fiber, 149 mg sodium

Thank you. I will definitely be doing the flax wrap. I just loaded up on them yesterday.

Flax Sandwich Buns
(source: ????)
Makes 6 buns

1/2 c. plus 1 T. flaxmeal (I used golden flax)
1/4 t. salt
3/4 t. baking powder
1-2 drops of liquid stevia
3 eggs
1-1/2 T.water
1-1/2 T. coconut oil (or other vegetable oil)

Mix dry ingredients. Add eggs, water and oil. Pour the batter into greased muffin top pan (6 shallow cups). Bake in preheated 325-degree F oven 15-20 minutes. to serve. Split horizontally with a thin serrated knife.

Grain lady, what would you use measurement wise for sugar or honey in place of the stevia. For the bun recipe please. I can't do any of the sugar substitutes.

Tami

I use NOW Stevia Extract and 1-2 drops is probably equal to 1-2 t. of sugar or honey and could probably be left out all together. By adding sugar or honey, the buns will brown more than if you used stevia. -Grainlady

Hm, I wonder if you can add molasses to get an almost pumperknickel taste?

Pumpernickel taste.... Add some caraway seeds (or ground caraway). That is the flavor most associated with pumpernickel. You can add caraway seeds to plain white bread and you will think it's rye bread or pumpernickel. Molasses (as well as coffee) are added to make the dough dark.

I've added dried minced onion and dried dill weed to this recipe. Other add-in I've used are Penzeys Fox Point, and Cheddar Cheese Powder from The Spice House.

-Grainlady

Thanks grainlady. Sugar substitutes seem to give my aunt, my dd and myself the symptoms of heart palpatations, or other similar reactions. So, even though I'm diabetic, I use sugar or honey. I eat what I want, but limit quantity, to balance it out. It's not just sugar, but carbs from the flours, as you know! I can't believe how many people think that if you don't eat things with sugar in them, that it's ok. They seem to have no clue that carbs turn into sugar.

Tami

Of course, can't forget the caraway seeds. I will have to play around with those too as I love them. Rye was always my favourite. I miss it.
Yep, better off without the high carb diet.

Cookie8 and Tami-
If you guys come up with a new "flavor" for these buns, please share ;-).

Tami-
Have you tried coconut palm sugar (which is low-glycemic)?

We've been eating a low-glycemic diet (foods from the lower half of the Glycemic Index of Foods) since the late 90's, and have been wheat/gluten-free for over a year in hopes to prevent diabetes, which is rampant (and deadly) in hubby's family; and to alleviate my inflammation (arthritis since I was 14-years old). I watch total carbs from all food sources .

-Grainlady

Well, I added 1 teaspoon (heaping as I knew some of it would stick on the spoon after mixing) of molasses and about 1/2 to 3/4 tsp of quickly pulsed caraway seeds. I accidently added too much salt. On initial taste there was a weird taste, almost fish like, but it wasn't horrible plus my youngest (4) and pickiest liked it so I will probably make it again as it was pretty filling. I will also try the original recipe and even try to make a "bran" muffin out of it with a bit more sweetener and raisins and maybe some extra seeds and stuff (hemp, chia, psyllium husk). Thanks for a great base.

Cookie, I was sitting at a traffic light and my restless mind wandered onto an aha moment. :) You mentioned the corn tortillas not holding up well in school lunches. That could happen with all kinds of GF things. So I'm sitting there and it popped into my head that as a kid, I often didn't have a sandwich. It might be a Thermos jar with tuna salad and crackers, or something like that.

I keep hearing that kids love Lunchables, which are kind of plasticy looking finger sized pieces of deli meats and cheese with crackers.

You could do your own version using a Bento box style lunch kit, and put all the fixings in the compartments, including tortillas or sandwich buns or whatever you have, and let the kids assemble their own, so the "bread" doesn't have a chance to get crumbly and fall apart.

Thanks plllog. Another thing we do is toast the bread so it holds up to sandwich filling. I think my youngest would like assembling his own lunch though.

No, I haven't tried the coconut palm sugar. How do you measure it? Does it measure the same as sugar?

For the inflammation from your arthritis, watch the nightshade family of vegetables, like potatoes, tomatoes and okra. There are more, but I can't think of them right now. I know when I eat more potatoes than usual, mine flairs, plus I have fibromyalgia also. I have stopped taking the prescription anti-inflamatories, and rarely take even Motrin. I have been taking turmeric occasionally. The last few days with this weather front coming thru I had to resort to the Gabapentin prescription for the FM. Today has been a good day!

Plllog, I also like your idea. I know my grandkids always beg for the yucky and expensive lunchables, so that's a great idea.

Tami

Tami-

Granulated coconut palm sugar measures nearly 1:1 for white or brown sugar, and is like a rich, coarse, brown sugar. Because of the rich caramel flavor, I tend to use less (about 25% less), but it depends on the recipe. It comes in a liquid (syrup) form called Coconut Nectar, but I make my own because it's expensive. Use where a liquid sweetener is called for.

Homemade Coconut Nectar
1-1/2 c. coconut palm sugar
1/2 c. water
Heat over a very low heat until dissolved. Place in a glass container with lid and refrigerate.

You're right about the nightshade plants. If I have a potato, it's one small "B" grade potato, and don't have tomato the same day. I found a lot of help following Dr. Collin Dong's diet in "The Arthritics Cookbook" (1972 or 1973), and then eliminating gluten was the most beneficial.

-Grainlady

I think this is the most I ever participated in a thread! I will post this recipe because I thought it turned out great - it's a twist on the flax buns. I hope the measurements are right because they are approximate.
"Bran" Muffins
3/4 cup fine ground flax
1/3 cup potato starch or tapioca (because even though potatoes don't work so well with me the starch does?- weird)
1 tsp baking powder
1/4 tsp salt
1 heaping tbsp chia seeds
2 tbsp hemp
2 tbsp psyllium husk
1/4 cup olive oil
3 eggs
1/2 - 1 cup dates (pureed in a couple tbsp boiling hot water)
I added some chocolate chips (Enjoy Life brand) but you can add nuts or raisins or seeds.
I thought they turned out very well. I probably should have added some vanilla but just thought of it.
Baked at 350 for 25 minutes.
I really miss nightshades. That has been the most difficult of all for me in playing around with recipes. Tomatoes are very versatile! Thankfully they don't have to be fully removed but certainly restricted.

LOL, and just for fun...
Came across it when I first changed my diet a couple of years ago.

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.tomatoesareevil.com/

I was a bento baby all through elementary school. Did not like traditional soft bread sandwiches. I liked crackers, cheeses, carrot and celery sticks, nut butters, fruit cut...all separate. A challenge for my mother without good containers. Even grilled cheese at home i needed it smashed with the kettle like a panini.

The last Irish holiday i came across a few gluten-free pumpernickel soda breads.

Lots of things in the spice and seed cabinet for a dark rye flavor. Teff flour, caraway seed, quinoa, cooked black beans, adzuki, and/ or lentils.. Cacao or raw cocoa, molasses, madhava coconut sugar has a very rich brown flavor. I also use mustard seed, turmeric, dill seed. flax, hemp, and chia.
I coarse grind the seeds and soak a few hours. I go a bit overboard with seeds, misc, grains and nuts but just like to try things i have on hand.

Clearly that would be a bit much, especially if a reaction happens it would be impossible to track it down. But if some of the things i've noticed in some recipes are on the 'good' list, they can be combined. I just keep the mixed grains, seeds, nuts to one cup dry volume and the liquids to one cup. Works with my basic recipe. (mine makes 6 mini loaves) and would make probably 16-18 buns.

I think i'll add the bun recipe to my 'to-do' list. I have some family members that need a good alternative to try.

I do like my new mini loaf pans. Nice crust, freeze beautifully, thaw easily, soft but can be sliced thin, nice toasted. (yeast but want to try a soda version)

Thank you grainlady.

cookie8-

I wonder if the difference between eating hot cooked/baked potatoes and potato starch is that potato starch is a resistant starch. Resistant starch lowers inflammation in the intestine, so may not inflame arthritis like cooked potatoes do. Do you have the same problem if the potatoes are cold (potato salad), because cold potatoes have more resistant starch than hot. I'll have to give that some more thought/research.

I use high maize resistant starch in a lot of my gluten-free breads instead of many of the high-glycemic starches and flours, and add high maize to our morning juice-smoothie due to high amount of fiber and other health benefits. Potato starch was on my "need to try" list.

Something else I learned recently.... Protein supplements such as whey, rice, soy, etc., are highly inflammatory. I now try to use gelatin instead of protein supplements. Gelatin comes in two forms - the one we use that gels and collagen hydrolystate that doesn't gel. I add gelatin to our diet in a lot of forms: hot beverages, fruit cubes (similar to Knox Blocks), cold drinks, desserts, etc.

Lean muscle meat is also inflammatory, but you can use gelatin to balance it. As a society, we rarely consume meat that includes the portions that form collagen like we once did, so we should consume gelatin, or bone broth high in gelatin, when eating muscle meats to avoid inflammation. I use bone broth (chicken/turkey/beef/pork) to make a simple pan sauce when I serve lean muscle meat, or serve a gelatin-based dessert.

-Grainlady

sleevendog-

Lovely loaf of bread!!!! Small bread pans are often a great choice for gluten-free breads because the smaller volume helps prevent the dough from falling in the middle like it often does in regular-size loaf pan. If you have a problem with the dough spilling over the edges of the smaller pan before the dough gets "set", make a foil "collar" above the rim of the pan to help support the loaf as it rises.

Another thing I read recently..... Powdered psyllium husk is effective at creating a more open and airy crumb in a yeasted g-f bread recipe. It works by binding with water better than xanthan gum or guar gum. Use xanthan gum or guar gum in recipes with less moisture than a bread recipe (muffins, cookies, noodles, etc.).

It's like learning baking science all over again!

-Grainlady

I saw something like that on a website called Marksdailyapple, re: resistant starch. Although I am not paleo I still read it because I enjoy the weekly success stories. I found it interesting because my personal experience, when I go fully paleo, I start to have histamine reactions to many proteins that I don't normally have and then I have a very limited diet. I found if I kept say Glutino crackers (not a lot, a handful every few days), basmati rice, or Udi's bread I can handle proteins, both products I mentioned are made with tapioca and potato starches so I started using them in my cooking with no problems.
The potato thing is interesting as I find I can have nibble of potato and if I get this weird feeling at the back of my throat (maybe bitterness? not sure) I don't eat it but if there is no reaction then I usually have a 1/4 portion without problems. I think it has to do with the solanine content.
I do hope the medical system starts to direct their attention to intestinal health, I really think there is something there. My medical turnaround has been remarkable but very much ignored by my doctors. I'm happy and healthy so that's fine by me.
Because my system is crazy at times I find my skin starts to react oddly so I make it a point to drink a tbsp on gelatin in warm water to start my day and within a week there is an improvement. It makes me gag but the results are worth it:). Thanks for any input as I love any bit of information of health and diet I can get and very much appreciate it. I came across hydrolystate gelatin from Great Lakes Gelatin but you have to buy a lot of it so I wasn't sure if it was worth it to get it.
LOL - 10-30 years ago I would have been rolling my eyes so deep in my head about "this person" (future me) talking that they would have gotten stuck!

cookie8-

It is my understanding you need to allow "regular" gelatin to bloom in cold water for 5-10 minutes, until it is completely clear, before using it in/with food or it may cause gas or bloating.

I keep both varieties of gelatin because sometimes you want gel, other times it's just easier to add it to other foods that don't need to gel. Can you have Very Veggie (or V-8) type beverages? Great Lakes Gelatin (green box - hydrolystate gelatin) would blend in with that well. A cup of Chai spice tea or Lemon Zinger..... The other option is to make bone broth and drink it. Make broth and add more gelatin powder to it.

There are GAPS and Paleo recipes that include gelatin powder.

HOMEMADE HEALTHY JELLO SNACKS
2 c. unsweetened fruit juice
2 T. gelatin powder
1-2 T. honey
Whisk juice and gelatin together and let bloom 5-minutes in a small sauce pan. turn stove on medium and heat until gel dissolves. Once dissolved, take off heat and add honey. Pour in an 8x8-inch pan. Cover and refrigerate. Cut into small blocks.

I am loving the small pans for that reason. I can fit 8 small pans on a small sheet pan and get a much better crust with so much soaked grains/seeds/nuts. Almost 'meaty'.

I'm curious about different reactions, the symptoms. My BIL gets immediate migraines and has had trouble finding the source. MIL gets a flush rash around the neck and chest.
Trying to get her to pay attention to certain convenient processed foods rather than the dairy and 'medically established' yeasts/sugars/salts/spice/nuts/soy, etc.
My husband had a 6 week period a few yrs ago with rash and heat flushing like his mother. We eat fresh and seasonally. Something he reacted to but not since. We never found the culprit. Might have been something i purchased that spring season that we used often then used up. First he blamed the broccoli, lol. Then some apples.
(he has peeled apples since then. Even at work he will peel with his pocket knife)
But not from our trees. We don't spray them.

I tried my gelatin with lemon...still need to plug my nose while drinking it.
Sleevendog, finding troublesome foods has been the bane of my existence over the past 2/3 years. Food journals and elimination/reintroduction, rinse, repeat, seems to work (somewhat). The doctor I bring my boys to even thinks it's seasonal for when you are reacting to certain ingredients.