You are keeping boiler active? I would.

The Greenspeed should be elevated and placed on a concrete pad. For your location, I would also want pump ups.

I would want to know what Carrier recommends, not your dealer. Dealer is factory certified in GreenSpeed installs? Don't use him if he is not.

And while I don't want to scare you, there is a noise issue with the GreenSpeed. Some of the condensers have a real problem. I can't say if the issue has been isolated and resolved. A question you should ask. I would want a reply in writing. Check you tube. Carrier GreenSpeed Noise issue.

IMO

Thanks for the information. The installer will be building a concrete platform. Now I know to ask for pump ups. :)

Yes, the gas boiler is remaining as a backup.

I've called Carrier's 1-800 number a few times, the reps read from general information already on the Internet. To acquire any true technical information, I'm referred back to dealers in my area. Unless you have a better number?

I was also told that every authorized Carrier dealer's requirements mean attending special yearly classes on installing their latest equipment, including Greenspeed.

BTW, I've spoken to several dealers in the NY metro area who are mostly down on this tech. However, I did receiv a quote ($2000 higher) from a dealer who is lukewarm to semi-enthusiastic about the tech.

I don't know if enthusiasm should be a prerequisite or not for this install. My current authorized installer also has a separate a shop that deals only in heatpumps; however, Greenspeed is a unique proprietary system.

And yes, I saw the Youtube video on the unusual Greenspeed noise and do know the difference between the normal sound. I will have 10-year parts and 2-year labor to work out the kinks, and will stay on the dealer and Carrier. I will also be buying an additional 8-year extension on labor. :)

If you live in NYC then you probably have Con Ed as your electric supplier which means one of the highest electricity rates in the country. What are you paying for natural gas and electricity? The savings using the Greenspeed heat pump may be smaller than you think.

Mike makes a good point.

Exactly what is your strategy here?

You might consider a high eff boiler with a straight AC system over the GreenSpeed.

IMO

Much appreciate the food for thought guys.

We paid ConEd .07kwh only six years ago, .21kwh only two years ago.

Current ConEdison rates
electric .26-.31Kwh
gas $1.97 a therm

2013 Energy consumption:
Electric: 9695 Kwh
Gas: 1200 therms

Heating and Cooling hours for my specific city
Total Heating Hours 6,361
Total Cooling Hours 2,399
Total Hours 8760

What's currently going on with ConEdison is highway robbery.... one reason for the dramatic increase being the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative (RGGI,) which is basically a cap-and-trade scheme perpetrated on nine Northeastern states... New Jersey recently opted out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_Greenhouse_Gas_Initiative

Gas boilers are also being subsidized vs. other choices including heatpumps in the US. In some ways, ConEdison is taking alternative choices out of NYers hands.

!What I truly want is maximum comfort (including more even heating and better humidification) in an all-in-one easy to maintain system. This will allow more time to devote full-time care for my elderly mom!

Just for reference, the Greenspeed is only $2000 more after rebate than an identical system with the Performance 16 instead. I'm currently considering every option, including a high-efficiency boiler.

Unfortunately NY is a very fast town. Expect to get expert opinions without real-world facts and figures. In fact, most of the time, don't expect a manual-J load calculation to be performed without begging. :)

I just need to figure out how to convert the amount of therms used over to the Greenspeed unit??? Below a certain setpoint temp, I could also switch from the Greenspeed back to gas. I'm going to sit down with the numbers for a while.

This post was edited by bsmith on Wed, Apr 16, 14 at 14:53

ConEdison actually hit a peak of .38 for Jan 2014 ($326.22 for 860Kwh!!) and are currently at .31Kwh. How ConEdison isnâÂÂt under investigation is beyond me.

I started using the Carrier Operating Cost Calculator
http://sagoro.wrightsoft.com/Carrier/Default.aspx

Anyhow, I have determined my gas boiler to be from 1964 with a 60% afue. Unfortunately, the Calculator only has a setting for 64% afue.

Quotes for various systems after rebates:
Carrier Infinity Greenspeed with variable speed blower $11,000
Carrier Infinity 17 with variable speed blower $9695
Carrier Performance 16 with variable speed blower $7795

IâÂÂm not going to find a replacement gas furnace for an additional $3205, especially needing better piping to upgrade from a 60afue to a 96afue. We had such a harsh polar vortex winter some one of my radiator pipes started leaking through the floor. The radiators are also poorly sized for the house and leave pockets of cold air.

Savings per year for various systems, assuming average .26Kwh and 1.68therm:
Carrier Infinity Greenspeed: $1091
Carrier Infinity 17 with new 96 afue boiler: $1,694
Carrier Performance 16 with new 96 afue boiler: $1,616

Savings per year for various systems, assuming more reasonable historic average .20Kwh and $2.15 therm:
Carrier Infinity Greenspeed: $2,706
Carrier Infinity 17 with new 96 afue boiler: $1,928
Carrier Performance 16 with new 96 afue boiler: $1,868

I think the Greenspeed makes good sense if pricing stays the same, and amazing sense if pricing drops below .23Kwh. Going from Performance 16 to Infinity 17 absolutely makes no sense.

Although I believe personally staying with a variable speed blower gives the most room for any sizing/ducting errors and maximum comfort. I hope this information is helpful for anyone contemplating the same scenario.

This post was edited by bsmith on Thu, Apr 17, 14 at 1:35

I can believe your high electric rates. I thought mine were high at $0.18 per kWh.

Are you sure about the gas rate? Natural gas prices have been dropping. I am surprised you are paying $1.97 per therm.

Have you looked into signing up with an alternative energy supplier?

Anyone have more information on pump ups: where to purchase, who manufacturers them etc?

My contractor has never heard of pump ups and wants to build a steel cage underneath instead. I rather like the idea of pump ups to ensure the unit is always level, and it's likely cheaper and will never rust.

Thanks again.

Have you tried Google?

I do not understand why you are researching this when any dealer worth his salt in a cold climate and who knows heat pumps would surely know about pump ups sometimes called snow legs. They would be available at any HVAC supply store.

And the more I think about your situation, I think a HP is a terrible strategy with your rates and you should be leaning toward a high eff boiler.

IMO

Here is a link that might be useful: Pump Ups

I searched on multiple terms and only found some forum postings, adding the term snow legs really helped. Thanks.

I'm thinking about going for 1' off the ground. These pump ups will also be good for dampening vibration. HVAC dealers in my area only know about old-school concrete risers and newer pads.

My current 1993 AC was installed flush to the ground, well before any code stating otherwise. :)

"And the more I think about your situation, I think a HP is a terrible strategy with your rates and you should be leaning toward a high eff boiler."

I donâÂÂt believe .37Kwh and higher can be sustained forever without blowback. If youâÂÂll notice on a 2013 energy map, Northeastern states with RGGI have the country's disproportionately highest rates.

Think about it for a second.... .37 for a Kwh in January! Gas prices in NY were as high as $3.60 a therm only two years ago. RGGI has made our energy prices wildly fluctuate. This makes any decision very difficult to gauge.

We currently have a 50-year-old gas steam boiler with 196000btu overkill output :). Steam boilers are less efficient and comfortable than water boilers and are rarely installed in new homes.

Going from a pre-1992 60-65% afue steam (possibly as low as 50%) to a 90% afue hot water isn't a simple drop-in install. It involves costly retrofitting to newer PVC in a 74-year-old house, also newer more efficient radiators. ThatâÂÂs 5K for the steam boiler alone and another 7K+ for the remainder. Suddenly it doesnâÂÂt make as much sense.

Radiant floor heating would be the perfect solution, although for major dollars. Although I might consider it as a DIY project in the future. Except I have lots of carpeting and radiant won't work well in these rooms.

As well a new hot water boiler canâÂÂt resolve the issue with winter cold spots as well as the constant static pressure of Greenspeed. Plus the a variable speed unit has the ability to alter the summer humidity/dewpoint and house comfort. Dewpoint is the more important number than humidity It also means a more optimal operational temp for the same price.

At a price difference of $3200 between an authorized install of the Performance and Greenspeed, I almost think itâÂÂs a good buy even just as a backup. That's the cost of a small vacation. My only worry is a complicated system breaking after the 2-year labor guarantee, and will be buying an extension.

Thanks for giving me some motivation and food for thought.

I have no axe to grind in this and continue to believe a GreenSpeed is a terrible choice. Even if used only in shoulder mths and then a conventional HP would serve your needs just as well. I agree though your pricing on GreenSpeed system is good although very little has been said to give me confidence that the Carrier dealer knows what he is doing. And is experienced with conventional heat pump installs much less is Carrier GreenSpeed install certified.

Just think what a properly sized and high eff boiler would do over existing. You probably could measure a payback compared to your old boiler.

IMO

No axe here, fire away. :)

To cool any apprehension, I was able to get the second dealer (WAY more experienced and Greenspeed-versed) to match the quote to the 2-year labor term and dollar. While they are both Carrier authorized and Nate certified, he's also won the President's Award three years running.

Plus the co-owner assists four techs with the install in a single day. They won't send techs and communicate problems by phone. I believe this is the way biggest plus.

They are also more amenable with any additions, suggestions or changes. Almost too good to be true. And yeah, he actually expressed the importance of snow legs.

I have been told the Greenspeed is now programmed better to provide greater than 50% RH, fan spins down during drainage... one of my biggest worries.

For me, it was either the Greenspeed or a Performance 16 requiring an additional Aprilaire dehumidifier, which would add in installation and operational costs. Suddenly we're within $1,300 of Greenpeed territory.

I'm also getting new super energy-efficient windows installed in a month, which makes determining the real-world heating requirements in Btuh difficult.

It gives the most room for error (including sizing, efficiencies and ductwork) for very little extra. Greenspeed at an unexpected 11K is a no-brainer, for the expected 16K it would have been a no go.

This post was edited by bsmith on Fri, Apr 18, 14 at 17:14

Seeing as how a new generation of variable speed Copeland scroll is on the horizon, I'm contemplating a wait and see on a newer unit. Although, I finally found a dealer with real world Greenspeed install examples in my area (with similar circumstances as mine) and was impressed enough with the savings even with our currently obscene electricity rates.

Right now, I'm in the process of cleaning and sealing all existing ductwork and reinsulating my attic.

The real pity: Americans are finally getting the variable speed tech that parts of the world have experienced for a long time. Too bad they are now starting to move over to superior linear compressors. Although I do give the US credit for leading the way in geothermal.